--- Log opened Wed May 07 00:00:13 2025
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02:10 < itrsea> Is xenodm the only supported login manager available in OpenBSD?
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02:14 < phy1729> gdm is packaged; never used it
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02:15 < itrsea> gdm is packaged but I could not use it after installing.
02:16 < itrsea> Installing KDE with kdm was similar. Widgets were introduced, so I know the install happened. The login has to be launched from the console with a command.
02:17 < phy1729> "To do so, "gdm" must be added at the end of "pkg_scripts" in rc.conf.local(8) (and "xenodm_flags" commented or removed)."
02:18 < itrsea> Oh
02:19 < phy1729> That text might be helpful in x11/gnome/gdm rather than just meta/gnome
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02:46 < itrsea> My gdm won't start.
02:48 < pardis> try changing the oil
02:50 < itrsea> I don't need a desktop, I decided.
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02:53 < pardis> "I need more than xenodm offers" to "I don't need a desktop" is an intriguing change of tack
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02:56 < itrsea> I disabled xenodm, and commented out rc.conf.local. GDM does not start at boot. Even when I launch startplasma-x11, the fluxbox desktop is launced.
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08:07 < [zacky]> Is it possible to enable logging if an application core dumps? I have kern.nosuidcoredump=1 enabled, and a core is dumped to the same dir if a pledge violation happens but nothing is logged, not even dmesg.
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08:17 < jxl> [zacky]: how do you mean? what kind of log are you expecting? that the program was terminated?
08:19 < jxl> [zacky]: kern.nosuidcoredump=1 prevents a core being generated for programs that are terminated/crash if they have setuid()/setgid() (and the respective sete*() variants as well, iirc).
08:20 < jxl> if they haven't, the core is generated
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08:25 < [zacky]> jxl: yes, I want to know that a application was terminated because of a core dump. Slide 45 on https://lteo.net/assets/pdf/lteo-openbsd-carolinacon15-20190427.pdf indicates that dmesg reports this, but this does not happen for me.
08:25 < [zacky]> err, not because of, but termnated because of an abort trap, and a core was dumped
08:28 < jxl> [zacky]: is it a daemon?
08:29 < [zacky]> jxl: no
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08:30 < jxl> i wrote a little test program, which just pledge's "" and then attempts to open /etc/master.passwd, and upon executing, it prints that violation to the controlling terminal (not even stdout/err, from what I'm seeing, as redirecting doesn't affect it)
08:31 < jxl> i think it's once you detach it from the terminal that it gets written to syslog, but this is me guesspeculating
08:31 < jxl> i'll afk for 4 min and come back to try that
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08:41 < jxl> [zacky]: yeah, i was wrong about that. 
08:41 < jxl> do you know which version of openbsd is the reference for those slides?
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08:47 < mischief> probably 6.4/6.5 ish based on the date
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08:57 < IcePic> jxl: according to man 5 acct, there should be a specific mark if a process ends due to pledge violations. You would need to enable accounting though. https://man.ifconfig.se/acct.5
08:57 < IcePic> #define	APLEDGE	0x00000020	/* killed due to pledge violation */
08:58 < IcePic> seems like unveil and bad syscall location calls also are logged in that output, so I guess this is how obsd expects you to keep track of when daemons hit the electric fence
09:01 < Lucas_> [zacky]: what gets logged is the pledge violation, not the coredump
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09:08 < jxl> hmm... you're right, I didn't have accounting turned on, but even when I enable it (via accton(8)), it doesn't appear to "work", as in doesn't actually log anything
09:10 < jxl> i.e. /var/account/acct is empty
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09:38 < [zacky]> Lucas_: yes, that's ok. but I don't get any logged at all
09:38 < [zacky]> jxl: thanks for testing, It seems like you got the same result as me
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09:59 < Lucas_> [zacky]: you're saying that you don't get pledge violations logged? that was removed relatively recently
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10:17 < [zacky]> Lucas_: yes, why was that removed? and can I enable it in another way? 
10:20 < Lucas_> check Git commit 01f24c16bb1cc4b212099464ff0a602366b6aa29 
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10:26 < [zacky]> I cannot see it in sa(8) or lastcomm(1) either
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10:28 < [zacky]> Lucas_: well.. ok. lets say I want to run a public facing tcp server, but somehow pledge got triggered.. now I cannot find out that something is crashing/trying to exploit my application
10:28 < [zacky]> so I have to trap and log myself, or use kqueue to look for a newly created core file ?
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10:38 < [zacky]> lastcomm actually logged it with flags -DXP when looking up directly on the user running it
10:41 < IcePic> [zacky]: I think the obsd idea is to NOT have your daemons on endless respawn, just for the case it is under attack by someone trying to remote-crash it into running code for them
10:48 < oldlaptop> isn't the whole point of making sendsyslog(2) a system call to ensure there's always at least the possibility of logging that, if a daemon is being respawned and hitting the stack protector over and over again?
10:51 < IcePic> sendsyslog is a call so that you can have zero file descriptors in your daemon/ulimits and still be able to syslog
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10:52 < IcePic> this is about someone else logging when your daemon dies, not it logging "I am dying from a non-blockable signal"
10:54 < IcePic> where "someone else" is the kernel in this context
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11:07 < [zacky]> IcePic: I understand, but Im not interested in getting it to respawn on a crash anyway, but I want a notification that it died because it did something that it wasn't allowed to do
11:08 < [zacky]> the best way would be do make the kernel log it for me
11:09 < [zacky]> then I can investigate the core dump
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11:29 < mischief> socat - EXEC:"luajit pledgeviolation.lua",pty,ctty,setsid | grep -q pledge && echo help ive been haxed | mail root
11:30 < mischief> the socat dance with the controlling tty and session leader allows you to capture the kernel-generated pledge violation message
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11:56 < [zacky]> mischief: yeah, thats another way to do it. thanks
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11:56 < [zacky]> I just parsed lastcomm for 'DXP' flags the last 5 minutes and ran it in cron
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12:39 < Lucas_> [zacky]: the commit log says that it's logged to the first tty
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18:19 < sbr> Finally had enough of big tech in my life and replaced OSX on my M1 mini with OpenBSD. Loving it.
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18:20 < sbr> Was already running Open/Free BSD everywhere else but had kept the mini around for photo editing with lightroom but decided I'd never make the effort to learn another tool if I didn't make myself.
18:21 < Bradipo> Next you'll be hosting your own email server, oh noes!
18:22 < sbr> hah, I did that for about 10 years then had kids and moved to fastmail. As it happened I did it with OpenBSD
18:23 < sbr> Apart from email I run everything else I use myself, mostly on FreeBSD machines and use OpenBSD for my laptop/desktop
18:24 < Bradipo> Maybe you should host your own email again.  https://poolp.org/posts/2019-12-15/decentralised-smtp-is-for-the-greater-good/
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18:25 < sbr> I don't disagree it is, but I didn't like having to explain to my wife why she missed an email.  Using one of the small-mid sized email providers feels like its decentralised enough
18:26 < sbr> Email with dmarc/dkim/spf isn't as straight forward as it was 
18:27 < Bradipo> Oh, well, you can let your wife choose for herself.
18:28 < Bradipo> Email is hard, I get it: https://poolp.org/posts/2019-08-30/you-should-not-run-your-mail-server-because-mail-is-hard/ :-)
18:28 < zelest> e-mail is dead easy :P
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18:28 < zelest> but the myth keeps living on that it's hard
18:29 < sbr> Setting it up is easy, keeping it all happy was a faff
18:30 < zelest> spf and dkim is easy
18:30 < zelest> at least with opensmtpd
18:30 < sibiria> rotate dkim key once a year. that's about it :)
18:30 < zelest> i do fcrdns as spam filtering.. rest is either filtered manually or I get lazy and run thunderbird and let it handle it client-side..
18:31 < Bradipo> I don't even filter.
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18:31 < Bradipo> I do RBL though.
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18:32 < Bradipo> Still, even if you don't run your own email, there is no guarantee that you won't lose email using anything else.
18:33 < Bradipo> Gmail routinely censors emails and nobody is the wiser because they don't bother to check their SPAM folder.
18:33 < Bradipo> I think of all the Big Mail Corps out there today, Gmail is the worst.
18:34 < sbr> Easy to replace gmail for a pretty much any google offering 
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18:34 < sbr> in being the worst, that is.
18:35 < Bradipo> But as you say, at least you're with fastmail, so that's something.
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19:17 < jfsimon> Good evening
19:22 < IcePic> Bradipo: I checked the wikipedia article on HMAC, I found it did explain mostly why the two xor numbers were as they are
19:23 < IcePic> quote: "The values of ipad and opad are not critical to the security of the algorithm, but were defined in such a way to have a large Hamming distance from each other and so the inner and outer keys will have fewer bits in common. The security reduction of HMAC does require them to be different in at least one bit."
19:23 < Bradipo> Yes, I read the original paper from 1996 and it said the same.
19:24 < Bradipo> The original proposal was for NMAC (nested MAC).
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19:25 < Bradipo> And it used 2 different keys, k1 and k2.  So HMAC is a variation where k1 and k2 are just the same key but with these arbitrary bytes XOR'ed to derive different keys.
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19:59 < IcePic> Bradipo: both byte values have 4 1s and 4 0s, just not at the same places
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20:07 < Bradipo> IcePic: Right.  Some of the places seem to overlap.
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20:14 < k0ga> /win/win 17
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20:50 < xx> the https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.7/amd64/SHA256 and SHA.sig files contain the install77.img and install77.iso entries twice
20:51 < xx> it should be fixed, because it makes the verification happen twice on some systems (e.g. linux sha256sum)
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20:53 < xx> (of course I meant SHA256.sig and not SHA.sig)
20:53 < quinq> Unacceptabel condition
20:54 < quinq> xx, the mailing list might be a better place for reporting that finding
20:54 < xx> I try to avoid emails
20:54 < xx> feel free to report it on my behalf
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20:58 < Lucas_> feel free to keep double checking entries
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20:59 < quinq> ^^
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21:09 < mischief> too bad there's no irc to smtp bridge somewhere
21:12 < thrig> HELO NURSE
21:14 < Bradipo> IRC to SMTP bridge... interesting thought.
21:15 < thrig> easy via a bot, and assuming you like typing out some amount of the SMTP protocol by hand and don't create a spam relay, etc
21:15 < mischief> i was imagining a whole irc server instance
21:16 < mischief> (where the PRIVMSG target is just the mail TO address)
21:16  * TommyC is curious about the UI design for that
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21:17 < thrig> might be handy to ping folks with on an internal irc network, assuming you have an internal irc network, enough folks that use it, etc
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21:31 < eea> ngircd admin here, bouncer would be the way to relay irc to smtp
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21:32 < eea> clever cron script to pass logs or log lines from irc into emails based on some routing logic... this likely would not scale beyond a dozen pr so
21:32 < eea> or so users
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21:33 < eea> best to let irc user do their own client side with a bouncer
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23:21 < dlg> anyone tried lldp?
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--- Log closed Thu May 08 00:00:15 2025