--- Log opened Wed May 21 00:00:33 2025
00:02 < sibiria> riceandbeans: if it's compiled, why not use compile-time conditionals
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00:08 < sibiria> you know, the predefined constants...
00:08 < sibiria> #ifdef __OpenBSD__ / #if defined(__OpenBSD__)
00:14 < riceandbeans> Yeah, something sorta like that....
00:14 < riceandbeans> But Rust
00:15 < riceandbeans>  #[cfg(target_os = "openbsd")]
00:15 < sibiria> ah, rust. sorry. cfg.target_os.values etc.
00:15 < riceandbeans> So the line under that only gets compiled when compiling on OpenBSD
00:15 < sibiria> yeah that looks right
00:16 < riceandbeans> :)
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02:05 < passstab> I just dd'd one gig to sd0 instead of sd1...
02:05 < FenderQ> :o
02:07 < passstab> I had windows at the start of my drive.
02:08 < passstab> Is it worth taking to a repair place?
02:08 < FenderQ> importance of backups
02:09 < FenderQ> dump(8) and restore(8)
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02:21 < passstab> little late for that now...
02:21 < FenderQ> live and learn
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02:21 < FenderQ> I remember putting in a new HDD and getting the C: and D: mixed up :o
02:22 < passstab> Aye, Fortunately my OpenBSD install should be fine once I fix the boot sector.
02:22 < FenderQ> smart
02:23 < passstab> But do you have a sense whether there is hope for the windows install? the file was 1 gig.
02:23 < FenderQ> for me it would be a sense of value on that data, and money
02:24 < FenderQ> most likely a lesson learned
02:24 < FenderQ> the hard way, yet sometimes the best way
02:24 < passstab> oof
02:25 < passstab> Also, I do have a backup of the windows install, but it is a few months old.
02:25 < tvtoon> you didn't backup the "*.wim"?
02:25 < FenderQ> ah! a few months old and be better than nothing
02:25 < FenderQ> can*
02:25 < passstab> I don't even know what that is.
02:25 < tvtoon> all you need is the Windows Image file that comes with them
02:26 < tvtoon> contains the whole Windows basic installation
02:26 < passstab> tvtoon: so a repair shop isn't out of the question.
02:26 < passstab> ?
02:27 < tvtoon> usually that is what is written on the latter partitions that comes with the Windows one
02:27 < tvtoon> your call, but you can work it around yourself with the image and the BIOS
02:27 < passstab> ooh, that's what that was... :/
02:28 < passstab> Hopefully I still have the one from the backup drive.
02:31 < Lucas_> mischief: idk, nor I know why you're asking me
02:33 < passstab> tvtoon: what is the process? I boot from the wim?
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02:35 < tvtoon> it depends on your brand, like Dell there is a setting for it to rescue from the partition
02:35 < tvtoon> but the general idea is to get the installer from MicroSoft and load the image there
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02:38 < passstab> Lenovo
02:39 < tvtoon> Lenovo goes trough the general procedure with the installer
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02:49 < passstab> tvtoon: is that the same as an in-place upgrade?
02:50 < tvtoon> I think so, check learn.microsoft.com for details because I never did them myself
02:51 < passstab> and is there any hope that it might respect my openbsd partition? (I know I will backup /home before doing anything meaningful.)
02:52 < tvtoon> and another good thing to do is packing EFI System Partition for all your needs whenever you can, that will avoid any trouble with installation for OpenBSD, Linux, Windows whatever...
02:52 < tvtoon> the Windows Installer doesn't mess with other systems, but if you are going to install first time, Windows need to be the first partition after the ESP
02:53 < tvtoon> or else, probably you will need to wipe your drive
02:53 < passstab> Not sure what you mean by that, but I was using rEFInd.
02:54 < passstab> It is
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02:58 < passstab> tvtoon: What did you mean by packing?
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03:06 < tvtoon> get as many installers as you can and put them in your system partition
03:07 < tvtoon> then use your BIOS to load them
03:07 < passstab> huh, why not just use thumb drives?
03:08 < tvtoon> you need USB to use the thumb driver
03:10 < tvtoon> see you
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04:00 < horsegoosemeth> I suppose that freebsd's support of ARM64 is no better due to using the same kernel..?
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04:06 < systemdsucks> freebsd's support of mips is the same because the kernel is actually equivalent
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04:08 < thrig> freebsd uses the freebsd kernel which is indeed no better than the freebsd kernel
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04:16 < remiliascarlet> Maybe we can get better support for various CPU's if FreeBSD would be using the Windows NT kernel.
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04:44 < FenderQ> so much FreeBSD talk
04:45 < njn> freebsd?
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04:53 < horsegoosemeth> Yes.
04:53 < horsegoosemeth> Thanks.
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05:00 < IcePic> systemdsucks: I do not think that is true, about mips support
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05:09 < systemdsucks> IcePic: neither do I :p
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08:00 < svragv> join #debian
08:01 < zelest> I refuse!
08:01 < svragv> I forgot the "/"!
08:01 < zelest> I figured :D
08:01 < svragv> I would NEVER tell an openbsd user to use debian. as he is already enlighted :D
08:01 < svragv> linux is baby's first enlightment lol
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08:29 < IcePic> as far as linux dists go, debian seem to share a lot of the mentality of openbsd, being strict with licenses and so on
08:33 < anelli> yeah and sane defaults and stability. it's my goto for linux that just werks even tho i'd prefer other distros without systemd
08:33 < anelli> or apt
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08:41 < svragv> Yeah debian is a good linux distro
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09:11 < ssm_> Alpine and Void are the closest to being like OpenBSD in my experience. I hate every moment I have to interact with debian.
09:13 < sibiria> devuan? debian without systemd
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11:28 < Posterdati> freezed again!
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11:31 < Posterdati> this is a regression respect 7.6
11:34 < IcePic> Posterdati: https://www.openbsd.org/report.html
11:36 < Posterdati> IcePic: the problem is that I cannot understand where the problem is, no errors in the logs
11:36 < Posterdati> plus
11:37 < Posterdati> killing xenodm, thus restarting X, fixes things
11:38 < IcePic> perhaps you can crash X to get a dump of it, so one can look at what it was stuck doing when it froze
11:39 < Posterdati> could be an xfce4 problem?
11:39 < IcePic> possibly
11:40 < Posterdati> what is a lightweight aleternative to catch that?
11:40 < Posterdati> GNUstep?
11:41 < IcePic> I would probably go for fvwm or twm from base
11:41 < IcePic> the experience will be vastly different of course, those are only WMs and not complete environments
11:42 < IcePic> but then again, if the extra fluff is the cause of the freezes, then you would know by it not freezing anymore
11:45 < Posterdati> mmmh
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12:02 < Posterdati> I'm using GNUstep now, let's see
12:04 < sibiria> best just use amigaos and workbench
12:05 < Posterdati> which is more stable than OpenBSD 7.7 xfce4
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13:53 < Posterdati> IcePic: no freezes so far
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14:13 < IcePic> Posterdati: glad to hear it
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14:38 < Posterdati> IcePic: could be something related to X DPMS features?
14:39 < Posterdati> IcePic: freezes occured after coming out from Display was turned off and on again!
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15:11 < Posterdati> libc++abi: terminating due to uncaught excpetion of type std::bad_alloc: std::bad_alloc
15:12 < Posterdati> from kicad 9.0
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15:50 < IcePic> Posterdati: "The std::bad_alloc exception - it means you want to allocate more memory that you have available."
15:50 < IcePic> check shell ulimits, login.conf limits
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16:11 < itrsea> I signed up to mailing lists. Is there an easy fix I could start contributing?
16:12 < thrig> find ports in need of updates?
16:13 < itrsea> thrig: yes, good idea
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16:28 < itrsea> updating cowsay shows patches onto a root tree. Would I update Root or patches?
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16:50 < Posterdati> IcePic: Interesting: there's an update for radeon firmware :), let's see...
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17:15 < zwr> itrsea: I like working through programs that need patches to build on OpenBSD and sending the patches upstream. Usually I generalize them to fix compilation on e.g. the other BSDs too. Typically I find other bugs in the programs in the process. Generally there's a shortage of people to do the work, not the work in open source
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17:32 < rewtkid> ssm_: agree. i dont use linux much now, but when i do its always void and alpine (unless its not my machine and i actually dont have the choice.)
17:33 < njn> i dont mind debian
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17:36 < systemdsucks> void and openbsd live together on my pc
17:36 < systemdsucks> both are great
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17:37 < zwr> void, alpine, gentoo, the better linux distros. also musl is really good
17:37 < Bradipo> What's great about void (in contrast to other Linuxen)?
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17:39 < njn> ive never used void or alpine
17:39 < Bradipo> I'm looking for a sane Linux since I believe blender on OpenBSD doesn't actually utilize the GPU.
17:41 < zwr> more competently run, e.g. the package infrastructure is more automated relative to something like Arch (possibly the worst Linux distro) so there's less space for human error, it's better than OpenBSD in that regard too. There's a Musl edition. You can avoid the stuff that many people hate about Linux these days like systemd, pulseaudio, the general redhat mess. The default install is more of a Unix and 
17:41 < zwr> less of an attempt to make an exact replica of Windows, too
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17:43 < systemdsucks> Bradipo: rolling release without obsessing on the very latest and no systemd
17:45 < zwr> I don't think rolling release or whatever the alternative is called (the way OpenBSD does things) is better or worse, in fact I haven't seen the benefits people claim from either in practice, I just think the distro is more competently made than most others, although there are similarly quality ones like Alpine and Gentoo. Also OpenWRT but that really doesn't go on the desktop.
17:46 < rewtkid> Bradipo: well void was made in part by former netbsd developers, and i would say it has a more "BSD way" of doing things. its package management system is also great, xbps-src is inspired by pkgsrc IIRC, and ofc you have the benefit of it not using crap like systemd, if thats your thing.
17:47 < njn> Ill have to check it out.
17:47 < rewtkid> upon reading the wikipedia, its *founder* was actually a netbsd developer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_Linux
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17:48 < njn> honestly, i havent really used much of linux in a long time.
17:49 < rewtkid> yeah. i honestly boot linux on the weekends to play a steam game with a friend, and thats it. i live in openbsd for the most part.
17:49 < njn> yeah, ive really gotten used to the bsd way of things
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17:51  * sonya runs crux and tinycore.. but alpine for vm's is good too.. all those linux-only things are sometimes quite annoying..
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17:51 < zwr> alpine VM for testing the Linux versions of stuff on vmd works well
17:52 < sonya> exactly :)
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17:52 < Bradipo> rewtkid: Yeah, I don't care about systemd, only blender. :-)
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17:53 < sibiria> mint is a great linux distro for the desktop, if you want as much compatibility as possible and as little mess as possible
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17:54 < sibiria> will let you run nvidia's binary drivers without any hassle
17:54 < sibiria> and if you run AMD, that will work out of the box. blender should pick up on either
17:56 < njn> linux is a bloated mess
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17:59 < sibiria> fully updated void linux/x86-64 has about a 1.6g footprint. leaner than openbsd!
18:00 < rewtkid> after getting used to openbsd, using linux feels like stumbling into a bunch of walls repeatedly.
18:02 < rewtkid> and for me its not even about bloat or the size, openbsd just *feels* much more cohesive and thought out than your typical linux distro.
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18:05 < zwr> njn: openbsd base system is anything but minimal too
18:07 < Bradipo> Oh I agree, OpenBSD is better designed.
18:07 < Bradipo> Size is only an issue if you're trying to install on a 128MB thumbdrive.
18:08 < systemdsucks> I don't think you can't even install from a 128M drive
18:09 < sibiria> *from* sure, with network access
18:09 < zwr> systemdsucks: you can if you boot the install kernel and get the sets from the internet
18:09 < zwr> I have OpenBSD and NetBSD dual booting on a 2002 laptop with a 27GB hard drive. I do get tight with space when using it to program and test stuff on i386
18:11 < zwr> for some reason a lot more 3rd party programs break on i386 than on NetBSD/Wii (some kind of PowerPC) in my experience
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18:12 < seninha> Hi, wsconsctl(8) mentions Mode_switch and Mode_lock (similar to Shift and CapsLock) but does not mention how to use those extra levels of shift.
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18:13 < seninha> It seems i need to specify extra keysyms like `wsconsctl keyboard.map+="a A ae AE"`
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21:31 < popopooooo> hello, anyone knows how to wakeup system from sleep using "any" key, not only the powerbutton??? and also with external usb keyboard/mouse buttons?
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21:37 < quinq> popopooooo, configure that into the BIOS
21:37 < pardis> that's unrelated to OpenBSD, since the OS is not running when suspended
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21:53 < mischief> hm.. where's the any key?
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22:01 < thrig> the knee key is a button installed under the desk you can hit to warn coworkers when the manager is spotted
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22:15 < quinq> s/the/a/
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22:22 < waks> I can't seem to remove headers at all with relayd. I've tried both using header set and header remove. If I set the header twice, it just appends a second header of the same name, remove just doesn't remove it.
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22:23 < waks> This should be available according to the manual https://man.openbsd.org/relayd.conf.5#remove
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--- Log closed Thu May 22 00:00:35 2025