--- Log opened Mon May 26 00:00:27 2025
--- Day changed Mon May 26 2025
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00:03 < armin> the funniest one was ISO8859-1 to ISO8859-15 just for the €
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00:04 < armin> goodnight everyone :)
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01:48 < oldlaptop> (microsoft documentation will still try to tell you lies like "unicode is a 16-bit character set")
01:48 < oldlaptop> especially the dustier corners even they don't care about
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01:53 < thrig> they also have a boolean return that can be true, false, and other
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02:43 < pardis> MaybeBoolean
02:44 < pardis> utf8 is a feat of engineering, utf16 is a feat of business
02:46 < pardis> but they are both better than GB 18030
02:47 < oldlaptop> utf-16 is an oops
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03:02 < MelMalik> UTF-32
03:02 < MelMalik> UTF-64
03:02 < MelMalik> higher and higher UTFs will be made until our demands are met
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03:10 < MelMalik> thrig, triboolean
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03:32 < remiliascarlet> UTF-4096, to support all those fictional writing systems.
03:33 < remiliascarlet> And you'll will have enough room for non-existing writing systems you might have had in your dreams.
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03:58 < ssm_> utf stands for u touch feet
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04:03  * FenderQ writes a scifi about AI which creates UTF-9000
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04:04 < phy1729> I think the joke has more than run it's course
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04:08 < FenderQ> so you're saying I'm too late
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05:29 < quinq> Does mg support ISO-8859*?
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05:43 < ssm_> quinq: `for i in $(jot $((255-161+1)) 161); do printf "\\$i\n"; done >file` and `mg file` says no
05:43 < ssm_> you get escape sequences, much like with unicode
05:44 < ssm_> same for vi as well, though vi uses hexadecimal escapes instead of decimal
05:44 < ssm_> ed works
05:46 < quinq> Sorry ssm_, that was a small troll :>
05:47 < ssm_> eh it was a fun micro-exercise
05:47 < quinq> Indeed ^^
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06:41 < Posterdati> hi
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06:53 < cs_0x6373> hello everybody.
06:54 < anthk_> ed under xterm supports utf8
06:54 < cs_0x6373> quick question: i installed openbsd on a physical server (Dell) but had to add the uefi boot menu entry manually. Is there a way to do this automatically?
06:54  * anthk_ is compiling dosbox-staging
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10:58 < ndut7> hi all
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11:00 < sibiria> cs_0x6373: that should happen automatically, provided that you left the ESP intact and openbsd was aware of it on the disk layout
11:01 < sibiria> or did you mean the efi-native boot order settings? if so, i don't think openbsd has any support for reordering or adding things there
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11:02 < sibiria> it writes its EFI application to the ESP if it's made aware of the ESP and that's afaik it
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12:21 < cs_0x6373> sibiria: i will have to test again, but i think i had to manually add the boot entry for OpenBSD.
12:22 < cs_0x6373> i have 6 physical servers that are being decomissioned that i will use for tests here.
12:23 < sibiria> cs_0x6373: just to be sure, don't forget to keep the ESP when setting up the disk labels. that would be the "i/FAT32" label. if it's missing, the installer won't even write out the bootloader
12:23 < sibiria> common mistake to accidentally remove or forget that when doing your own labels
12:24 < cs_0x6373> with ESP you mean the sdXi msdos partition?
12:25 < sibiria> yes, the ESP will be represented as sdXi (label "i")
12:25 < sibiria> openbsd will present non-openbsd partitions as label i and onwards
12:26 < sibiria> whatever the type
12:27 < cs_0x6373> i will test in the next few days (will have to test other stuff like automated patching etc as well).
12:27 < cs_0x6373> There is efibootmgr on Linux available, but not on OpenBSD, but the underlying efivar is available and the boot entries are visible there as well.
12:28 < cs_0x6373> we'll see
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12:31 < sibiria> you can always boot up any linux livecd and just edit the boot order if necessary
12:35 < sibiria> and if you set the disk (partitions) up with openbsd, it will write its own default boot order which will Just Work(tm)
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12:35 < sibiria> will have just Boot0001 entry, using the amd64 default of BOOT/BOOT<arch>.EFI
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16:32 < passstab> I accidentally dd'd the first gig of my internal drive.
16:33 < passstab> I had windows there, which I'm ok with having lost.
16:33 < zelest> Ouch
16:33 < passstab> How can I put in a new boot sector to point to my OpenBSD partition?
16:34 < oldlaptop> You may find https://openports.pl/path/sysutils/testdisk helpful
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16:34 < oldlaptop> it may well be able to reconstruct the whole MBR/GPT partition table
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16:36 < passstab> I took it to a lenovo certified repair guy, who gave it back unchanged.
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16:37 < passstab> Ironically, the thing I wrote was SystemRescueCD.
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16:46 < passstab> Just tried testdisk, and it looks like it miiight work?
16:47 < passstab> oldlaptop there seem to be 26 partitions according to testdisk. Should I try to restore them all, or is that going to mess things up more?
16:48 < oldlaptop> That sounds implausible, doesn't it?
16:48 < passstab> Yes
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16:49 < oldlaptop> I would suspect offhand it might be offering to include all the OpenBSD "sub"partitions(?)
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16:51 < passstab> oldlaptop are 8 ntfs partitions with a size of 6174 sectors, half of which are labeled [boot].
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16:51 < passstab> *there
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17:05 < passstab> oldlaptop Is there a good place I can upload a photo?
17:06 < passstab> Of the testdisk output
17:06 < passstab> https://v1.imgpaste.net/images/public/b26223e8-88ad-4880-adad-c177ce798709-IMG_20250526_125200_410.jpg
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17:08 < quinq> /14/14
17:09  * zelest wonders what's in window 1
17:10 < quinq> That's the status window
17:10 < quinq> (servers output)
17:10 < thrig> this question preoccupied "The Prisoner" TV series
17:11 < quinq> Are you like 110 years old?
17:11 < thrig> I'm older than 6
17:11 < quinq> decades?
17:12 < lts> I am not a number, I am a free man
17:12 < quinq> Like Morgan?
17:13 < quinq> Or Gordon?
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17:35 < anelli> hi i'm setting up a mail server and i'm wondering if i messed up with partitioning. /home is 17G total and /var is 5G total. also i'm wondering if it could be fixed my making the server POP3 only or if it's better to also support IMAP. currently i'm the only user but i'm thining of adding more people to it. thx
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17:35 < anelli> whole disk is 50G
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17:42 < jgh_> IMAP is useful when you have more than one client device for an account
17:42 < CosmicDJ> anelli: openbsd.amsterdam?
17:42 < anelli> CosmicDJ: yup :b
17:42 < anelli> jgh_: fair
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17:43 < CosmicDJ> anelli: /var usage on my mail server is 248M right now...
17:43 < anelli> CosmicDJ: wow. lots users?
17:43 < anelli> i'm just very scared of running out of space as i might mess important email
17:44 < anelli> maybe i'll do a cron job that tells me if i'm runnin outta space or something
17:45 < anelli> CosmicDJ: btw with IMAP does mail always stay in /var or does it go into the user's /home? i only used email via ssh so far on that server and it moved the mail to /home=
17:46 < CosmicDJ> anelli: just 4 users
17:46 < anelli> oh nice
17:46 < lts> One should always have a monitoring solution on all nodes, warning about disk space and cpu usage and hardware failures and so on
17:47 < CosmicDJ> anelli: and I'm using IMAP and all the mails are in /home/...
17:47 < anelli> lts: true. it's just lotsa work :b
17:47 < anelli> CosmicDJ alright that's great
17:48 < lts> Set it up once with something like sysutils/telegraf and grafana (AGPL warning), and then replicate to all nodes forever
17:49 < sibiria> and why not also pipe that into CloudWatch on AWS with data delegated to a three-node ES cluster with CloudTrail auditing
17:50 < lts> Well for starters that sounds awfully complex
17:50 < lts> :-) 
17:50 < sibiria> for my e-mail server the monitoring is a 3-line shell script dropping a mail to me if something is up, combined with me noticing if my e-mail client can no longer reach the mail server to fetch new mail
17:50 < anelli> CosmicDJ: sorry one last question: so i login to that machine with a username and do stuff with doas sometimes so i got a short password, but with mail auth setup i'm worried about bruteforce attacks so i changed my password to a 40char thing with entropy. now it's harder to doas. i read you can set separate passwords for mail via /etc/mail/passwords but it'd remove the ability of other users to easily change their password with passwd(1). am i doing it righ
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17:51 < anelli> damn my message got cut off i think. -and using a long password?
17:52 < CosmicDJ> anelli: logging in with ssh keys only and telling doas to not ask for your password is not an option?
17:52 < lts> Everyone can monitor on the level they feel most comfortable with. Crontab is fine if you don't care that much about failing drives or CPU usage being 100%
17:52 < sibiria> it's an option. just a really bad option
17:52 < anelli> CosmicDJ: oh yeah that's what i do for ssh but i don't think it works for mail clients like mutt/etc right
17:52 < CosmicDJ> sibiria: why?
17:52 < anelli> and imaps
17:52 < sibiria> lts: i use atactl etc. for that.
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17:53 < sibiria> CosmicDJ: no separation between you and super-user
17:53 < sibiria> don't "doas" all the things just out of convenience. do it when the reason is necessity
17:53 < anelli> yea agreew ith sibira on doas
17:53 < sibiria> bit by bit you elevate that "normal" user into a state of semi-root. it runs counter-course to security
17:54 < CosmicDJ> sibiria: well best case you only have to log in via ssh when a new release is out...
17:54 < anelli> > Set it up once with something like sysutils/telegraf and grafana (AGPL warning), and then replicate to all nodes forever
17:54 < anelli> o alr i'll check it out
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17:57 < anelli> alright thx a lot for the help everyone :) happy to free myself from the shackles of corpomail. amen
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18:02 < thrig> ... until google and microsoft block your petty server
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18:05 < anelli> thrig: it's war
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18:09 < anelli> thrig: Never surrender the protocols. Reclaim your connections. Run your own mail server. https://www.tiltedwindmillpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/9781642350784-1-1-416x627.jpg
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18:21 < quinq> So for it's been working for me “Your email went into spam — Well, fix your email server — But it's gmail... — Well, too bad for you”
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20:04 < itrsea> An external drive failed to be read-only. How do I check with fsck?
20:10 < itrsea> The BSD filesystem required FF Fsck.
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21:07 < vortexx> itrsea: dmesg | grep sd and work out which drive number it is, then fsck -y /dev/rsdXa-through-whichever number of partitions you have on there (you can skip c). This is for FFS only
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21:10 < itrsea> vortexx: that worked, thanks
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21:13 < vortexx> another satisfied customer :)
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21:26 < shtrophic> If I wanted to buy a 4+ Port, 2.5G ready router (ideally with PoE capability) that is OpenBSD compatible, what should I go for?
21:27 < shtrophic> Or does the device I am describing not exist?
21:28 < shtrophic> I've seen the ubiquity edge router post on undeadly... That but with 2.5G networking!
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21:29 < shtrophic> Or is some home-grown, aliexpress, topton device "the way to go"?
21:30 < vortexx> maybe a supermicro board might do
21:30 < sibiria> odroid h3/h4 with netcard expansion gives you a total of six 2.5gbe ports
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21:35 < vortexx> oh that's 4x2.5Gbe? I thought that card gigabit only
21:36 < shtrophic> sibiria: As a "soft router" eh? But that's probably enough CPU power anyway
21:38 < sibiria> vortexx: the older model is 4 x 2.5Gbe. newer i think is 5Gbe. no idea about openbsd compatibility on the newer chip
21:38 < sibiria> shtrophic: well, it's a router, it will be "soft" with openbsd on it, oODbviously
21:39 < sibiria> there is no integrated switch on the netcard. it's four discrete NICs
21:39 < vortexx> The four Ethernet controllers on the NetCard 3 are high speed 5GbE Realtek RTL8126 chipset.
21:40 < vortexx> NetCard 2 sold out over on the manufacturer's website
21:40 < shtrophic> Intriguing ...
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21:40 < vortexx> 7.6 added support for that chip in the rge driver
21:41 < vortexx> no PoE though
21:41 < sibiria> rge(4) is good driver, at least in my experience with the rtl8125
21:41 < vortexx> yeah no complaints here either
21:47 < shtrophic> Thanks I will have a look
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21:55 < vortexx> I wonder why the H4+ is double the price from Swiss retailers...
21:55 < sibiria> because $mo_money, $mo_money
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21:58 < vortexx> thing is, if I buy from the German supplier, I'll probably get hit with the import tax. Not 100% certain on that but I wouldn't be surprised
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22:56 < Anti-Citation> What's a good desktop enviorment for my fresh openbsd install
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22:59 < njn> i3
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23:06 < jmcunx> Anti-Citation: cwm or fvwm, in base and probably pledged.  But only you can really answer that question :)
23:07 < Anti-Citation> @jmcunx I was thinking about using cwm, just need to get used to the keybinds
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23:08 < Anti-Citation> Waiting for my new wifi card to come in since my current one is not compatible
23:09 < njn> its not hard. open up a terminal, the config file and go through them all once. its not long and youll have it down
23:09 < njn> cwm is my second choice over i3
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23:10 < Anti-Citation> Has anyone ever tried running a minecraft server off of openbsd does it work ok?
23:11 < njn> its all pretty self explainitory
23:11 < Anti-Citation> gotcha
23:12 < njn> like, there not random bindings, they do make sense.
23:12 < njn> so there not too hard to remember
23:12 < FenderQ> jmcunx: cwm and fvwm use pledge
23:13 < njn> youll only be using a handful anyway
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23:14 < njn> some of them are labeled twice. once for the keyboard, and another for the arrow keys
23:14 < njn> whichever you prefer.
23:17 < njn> cwm SHOULD be called the default. i dont know why its fvwm :/
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23:18 < pardis> it makes sense to me
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23:18 < pardis> using cwm requires first reading the man page (even to get as far as opening xterm to read the man page), whereas fvwm should feel familiar to someone uninitiated who has just installed OpenBSD
23:19 < njn> i guess your right
23:19 < ssm_> conversely cwm is far easier to configure
23:19 < njn> just never a fan i guess
23:20 < ssm_> let's compromise and make twm default :3
23:20 < FenderQ> helpful docs for the first time user https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq11.html
23:21 < njn> omg noooooo
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23:28 < njn> thank god that ship has sailed.
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23:32 < jmcunx> FenderQ: I figured they were pledged but was not 100% sure
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23:41 < oldlaptop> It's easy enough to check, especially if the AI crawlbots haven't poleaxed cvsweb today. https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/xenocara/app/cwm/calmwm.c?rev=1.115&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
23:43 < jmcunx> cool
23:43  * oldlaptop almost said "wow, maybe not fvwm, given that fvwm.c rev 1.3 was eight years ago" - but no, it was pledged "9 years, 6 months ago". What the hell?! https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/xenocara/app/fvwm/fvwm/fvwm.c
23:43  * oldlaptop hopes they find the miscreant who's running around messing with time making it go faster
23:44 < pardis> only 13 years left until it goes backwards
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23:52 < njn> rm -rf /app/twm* :P
--- Log closed Tue May 27 00:00:42 2025