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06:41 < usagi_mimi> jxl: For the last several years the people with commit access to the Xorg repos have refused to merge in a lot of patches that fix long standing bugs that are typically used to promote other protocols/software being "better". One of the people that was trying hard to maintain Xorg and submitting a lot of patches finally got banned for some reason (not sure of exact details).
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06:42 < usagi_mimi> I'm hopeful his fork will finally spur some development and I'll no longer have to manually patch Xorg on other systems I have to fix things like multi-monitor bugs (I run a 6 monitor workstatation with different refresh rates). Hopefully some of those fixes eventually filter down to Xenocara as well
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06:44 < IcePic> I can somewhat see a slight point in "if we are to move from A to B we need  to stop putting time in making A better", but preventing people from doing it in their spare time is just evil
06:44 < usagi_mimi> There have been a lot of examples of them refusing to merge good fixes. There are so many I can't remember them all now. I've been pulling them into a local directory for years and compiling my own whenever the GPU drivers on that machine update. I should probably document all of them but I'm lazy
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06:45 < usagi_mimi> Yeah they were really rude. There were at least 3 people that I know of working on Xorg full time and many others solving various issues with it mostly related to multi-monitor setups. Pretty much every bug people bring up for why they switched to something else was fixed a long time ago. You just had to go manually track down the fix and patch it in yourself.
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06:48 < usagi_mimi> I've noticed they have a similar attitude when you bring up other projects like Arcan/A12 and s6 init/suite. Both of which have made really good progress solving things like the IPC issue and system services. I'm honestly surprised there isn't a BSD or Linux distro catering to people that want to use those two yet. Both are really nice and seem to have good people leading development.
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06:59 < usagi_mimi> lol I remember this guy now he's the one that got Linus to rant about the covid vaccine 
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07:01 < usagi_mimi> Thankfully, I don't care about his politics as long as his software is good. I subscribed to the mailing list yesterday I'm interested to see where it goes. 
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07:10 < betabug> probably the sky?
07:10 < betabug> ups, worry, wrong channel
07:10 < usagi_mimi> Now I'm also curious if other BSDs will adopt this fork in the future since they don't maintain their own as part of the base system. I've been meaning to move that multi-monitor workstation off a Linux distro for awhile now. But maintaining my own Xorg with patches would be very painful on anything else at the moment since I'm lazy. All I have to do to maintain it at the moment is drop patches in
07:10 < usagi_mimi> a directory. I can't move to the new shiny stuff on that machine because it doesn't support the use case (I need ability to turn off compositor sometimes)
07:12 < usagi_mimi> Sadly none of this new stuff is made with the ability to work with CRTs and 'outdated' A/V hardware
07:12 < CosmicDJ_> usagi_mimi: looks like FreeBSD has set sails for Wayland already https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/wayland/
07:15 -!- CosmicDJ_ is now known as CosmicDJ
07:16 < njn> doesnt suprise me, with all the linux intergration already
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07:18 < usagi_mimi> Yeah I'm not surprised by that either
07:18 < njn> freebsd has always been more modern then other bsd varients
07:19 < usagi_mimi> I wouldn't call it 'modern' more just chasing whatever freedesktop does
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07:20 < usagi_mimi> I've seen similar attitude in the one Linux distro I still use. It's becoming a bit unbearable to keep it in a working state because the stuff I do isn't figured into the over all goal of the project anymore and any time I've tried to make some noise I've been shouted down and called a troll or other nasty names.
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07:21 < usagi_mimi> I've tried to submit code several times as well but sometime around 2019/2020 the maintainers just stopped allowing me to participate all together along with a bunch of the older users
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07:34 < usagi_mimi> I guess no one has picked it up but Arcan already solved the issue of mixing Xorg and Wayland stuff pretty decently
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07:39 < usagi_mimi> https://arcan-fe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/struct.png
07:43 < usagi_mimi> Ah wrong link: https://arcan-fe.com/2021/09/20/arcan-as-operating-system-design/
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08:55 < usagi_mimi> question for you guys running -current: How often do you update to a new snapshot?
08:56 < Lucas_> each Saturday
08:56 < ivdsangen> whenever its relevant for security or there is something i want or need
08:57 < Lucas_> except if I really really need something that was commited before the next Saturday
08:57 < Lucas_> example: Intel tearfree for X was committed, and I'll give that a try
08:59 < ivdsangen> i installed the latest snapshot for the tearfree patch, but i notice no difference at first glance
08:59 < Lucas_> bc there is on snapshot yet
09:01 < ivdsangen> [ivo@i7 ~]$ grep -i tear /var/log/Xorg.0.log                                                                                          
09:01 < ivdsangen> [    13.382] (II) modeset(0): TearFree: enabled
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09:01 < Lucas_> s/on/no/
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09:03 < usagi_mimi> Intel didn't already have tearfree support in xenocara? I'm surprised. I've been running it on AMD for awhile now
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10:39 < ssm_> Lucas_: oh did it? I can finally ditch picom
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10:42 < IcePic> usagi_mimi: something like once a week for snaps, yes
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10:43 < IcePic> btw, tried the dirhash memory bump (as seen on undeadly.org and so on) on ftp.eu.openbsd.org, it hovers around 40M, so my guess is that bumping to 50M from 5 should be enough for most usage
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11:11 < sibiria> really surprising to see that vbl sync wasn't available for the old intel igpu driver until now
11:11 < sibiria> intel users... so many years of suffering
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11:34 < usagi_mimi> I was so used to intel having the best support on other kernels that I didn't even think about it once I started using openbsd as a desktop. I was just thankful amdgpu worked.
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13:48 < DanucD> vm escape is highly hard , right? especially from vmm on an openbsd? launching a web server inside vmm is way more secure than launching it on a bare metal openbsd server?
13:51 < zelest> Depends what you mean by secure. If your webserver inside vmd is owned, you still have a owned machine, even if it's isolated.  httpd and nginx on OpenBSD's are both chrooted to /var/www though and escaping out of there is also very hard for an attacker.
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13:52 < zelest> When it comes to web and security, you usually have other things to worry about than your machines being owned (RCE)
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13:52 < zelest> (SQLi, XXE, XSS, etc)
13:54 < DanucD> right
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13:57 < zelest> Also, if I felt the need that I *had* to run a service inside vmd to dare having it facing the Internet, then I wouldn't run it in the first place. :)
13:58 < zelest> But as always, each to their own. :)
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14:00 < usagi_mimi> General advice: Someone that enjoys the challenge of pwning random machines on the internet will also enjoy the challenge of escaping whatever container you've isolated something in
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14:01 < andrath> https://openbsd.amsterdam/ seems to have no issues running webservers from inside vmm ;)
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14:03 < DanucD> terrifying internet world
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14:03 < usagi_mimi> As they say security is a process not a product
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14:12 < IcePic> DanucD: then again, vmm-on-openbsd might be a very small field, so even if it is as good or as bad as all the other hypervisors, my guess is that it gets TONS less attention by hackers, so if there are secret networks where hackers exchange exploits with eachother, the chances of there being vmm code there compared to hyper-v, esx and kvm would be far smaller
14:13 < sibiria> security by obscurity is sometimes security
14:13 < IcePic> not that security-by-obscurity in itself is a good protection, but the smaller fish can swim through nets that catches the larger ones
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14:15 < usagi_mimi> Think of it like a house and each room is a VM. If someone sets up shop in one room and starts selling drugs out of the window when you aren't looking would you care? Even if you did would you notice unless someone knocked on the front door and made you aware of it? A lot of people that get into machines just siphon off a bit of bandwidth and space for other purposes and some operate them for
14:15 < usagi_mimi> years without anyone being any wiser.
14:15 < IcePic> its a bit like that BatteryHorseStaplerCorrect thing for passwords. If you think my system uses 12 hex chars for passwords normally, then having Four English Words will be quite secure, since you can bruteforce the 12-char pws for the longest time without hitting my pw ever. If you on the other hand know my system randomizes four words from the English dictionary, then my pw is really bad
14:17 < IcePic> so if the attacker ends up in your VM, they can test a large battery of kvm/esx/hyperv escapes and not succeed just because vmm is different
14:17 < sibiria> additionally, not succeed because openbsd != linux
14:18 < sibiria> underdog os #1
14:18 < IcePic> of course. I've seen a lot of solaris and bsd boxes get tricked into run stuff, and the hackers run x86_linux crap at it which of course fails spectacularly.
14:19 < usagi_mimi> It would certainly be better than the average linux distro when it comes to automated exploits. Which are the main concern. Just open a machine up to the internet and watch the logs fill up if you care to learn how bad things are
14:23 < andrath> ssh bruteforce attempts are annoying as they are 
14:24 < andrath> I run an openbsd MTA on the internet, everyone and their donkey is trying things.
14:24 < usagi_mimi> I had a machine sitting behind an ISP supplied router a few years ago that was forcefully moved over to ipv6 address by the ISP. Which removed the NAT between it and the internet (and disabled the firewall). Took about 3 hours before the owner called me up to complain. It filled up a 500GB SSD in that amount of time.
14:25 < sibiria> andrath: just change port. save yourself the noise
14:25 < sibiria> i make a habit of never running ssh on port 22
14:25 < andrath> sibiria: change the port on inbound SMTP? heh
14:25 < usagi_mimi> They hit several other ports just not as frequently 
14:26 < sibiria> andrath: "ssh bruteforce attempts are annoying as they are"
14:26 < andrath> port scanning exists, just don't ever use passwords with ssh, only use keys
14:26 < sibiria> sure. but you are likely not a specific target
14:26 < sibiria> so you'll end up with very little noise compared to running it on port 22
14:27 < andrath> fail2ban or connection rate limiting with pf helps a bit
14:27 < sibiria> but why? unnecessary effort
14:27 < sibiria> if you trust your ssh to accept connections out on the internet, why adding such security bells and whistles
14:28 < andrath> using only keys is just common sense
14:28 < sibiria> has nothing to do with keys or passwords
14:28 < andrath> and fail2ban or adding a pf rule is not a lot of effort
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14:29 < sibiria> running a setup to collect addresses to explicitly ban traffic from just to get some peace and quiet is hamfisted compared to moving your sshd off of the standard port where 99.9% of this traffic happens
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14:29 < andrath> changing the port will only work for a short while. They'll find it. 
14:29 < sibiria> for an MTA it makes a bit more sense since you have no port malleability there because nobody knows what SRV records are
14:29 < sibiria> they = the 0.01%
14:31 < usagi_mimi> In a sane world this issue and the constant landline spam would be solved by delinking certain regions from your own system until they started playing nice
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14:31 < andrath> oh yeah, I do block countries like China where no legitimate connection seems to come from
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14:35 < andrath> also, a lot of abuse seems to come from VPS hosting like Amazon, Azure, Google, etc.
14:38 < sibiria> same with spam. most of it comes from "legitimate" outlets like gmail and outlook
14:39 < andrath> yep, spammers are quite adept at following standards like DKIM, SPF, DMARC etc
14:39 < sibiria> for systems where i need to accept ssh traffic from potentially anywhere, it's a bit like being upset with seeing people outdoors
14:39 < sibiria> just go sit somewhere quiet (read: not port 22) and ignore the little noise you can hear
14:40 < andrath> or limit the amount of exposed hosts and put them behind a few bastions
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14:55 < farhan> question...does OpenBSD support pcmcia devices? I think yes (based on the code), but wondering if its something poeple actually use.
14:56 < farhan> I ask because...I am doing a pretty in depth review of the athn code and see some things that could be better
14:57 < farhan> Specifically, a USB device is labeled "non-PCIE", and executes a function...no harm is caused, but its unnecessary. The only reason I can think of that the function is executed is because pcmcia requires it.
14:57 < farhan> (that was a poor explanation)
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15:05 < farhan> athn calls athn_get_chipid and assigns the device as PCIe or non-PCIe. IMO, that should be done during the bus-specific attachment handler...it incorrectly assigns a USB-device as PCIe. That has a few different impacts...nothing that breaks anything, but stuff that gets run that doesn't need to.
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15:08 < farhan> I also noticed that a function like ic->ic_handler will be set to athn_stop which is PCI-specific (for example), and then changed to athn_usb_stop. So why not rename athn_stop to athn_pci_stop and move it to if_athn_pci.c The only thing stopping me is if pcmcia is still used.
15:08 < farhan> If so, this change might break things, and I don't know because my only pcmcia device is gathering dust in a closet.
15:09 < thrig> folks can be unhappy about untested potentially breaking changes
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15:10 < farhan> i wonder where I'd even get that card to test it out...
15:11 < sibiria> i haven't seen a PC-card in 20 years
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15:12 < farhan> i believe openbsd removed bluetooth because the stack didn't have a maintainer. Curious if that will happen to cardbus
15:12 < farhan> pcmcia? pc-card? cardbus? I dunno what its called...
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15:14 < sibiria> expresscard... pccard... cardbus...
15:15 < farhan> in undergrad I ran a then-old laptop that weighed a ton...running linux...that had wifi via a pcmcia card
15:15 < farhan> Running Slackware and Abiword for document editing.
15:15 < sibiria> my amiga 1200 has wifi over pcmcia. it's very high-tech
15:15 < farhan> and my undergrad degree was in Economics, lol, completely unrelated.
15:16 < echelon> i doubt you can find a pcmcia card that's above 802.11b
15:16 < echelon> i don't know why anyone would bother
15:16 < farhan> I'm doing device driver writing for FreeBSD, porting athn...
15:17 < farhan> Rx seems to work, next step is transmission and whatever else there is to do.
15:18 < Lucas_> farhan: if you believe there is something wrong with the code, tech@ is a better forum to discuss it
15:18 < farhan> Lucas_: sounds good :) And of course, I might be wrong.
15:19 < sibiria> athn(4) is definitely wrong. nothing about it works
15:20 < farhan> nothing works? Explain?
15:21 < farhan> There are some unhandled HTC messages, curious how Linux handles it.
15:21 < sibiria> unstable, disconnects all the time, half the chipsets it claims to support aren't supported at all, other half works during full moon but not otherwise
15:21 < sibiria> i think there's like one specific supported device pair in the list that actually works
15:21 < farhan> oh darn.
15:21 < farhan> Please say its ar9271
15:22 < sibiria> no idea. i have three or four of them and none of them function normally, but i cannot recall which ones
15:22 < farhan> ahh
15:23 < sibiria> 11n is claimed to work as well, but doesn't, not even on the one chipset that someone said worked fine on 11g
15:23 < sibiria> dumpster fire driver
15:23 < farhan> Also, does OpenBSD allow arbitrary USB insertion (ie, post boot)?
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15:23 < sibiria> yes it does
15:23 < farhan> I'm only using it via proxmox, so the USB passthrough might be behaving differently.
15:24 < farhan> sibiria: if that's a known problem, I have several changes I can recommend.
15:24 < sibiria> surely known. there have been a lot of confused users in here asking for help with it
15:25 < farhan> most is small, but just things that seem mistaken....for example, ifp->if_stop (or whatever its called) will assign athn_stop in athn_attach and when the function returns, ifp->if_stop is assigned to athn_usb_stop.
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15:25 < sibiria> imo you should just ready up the diffs and send them onto the mailing list and see what sticks
15:26 < farhan> okay.
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15:26 < sibiria> the one developer that does wifi work hasn't done much on anything but the inODtel stuff
15:26 < farhan> Like I said, the only thing I need to know is will it break pcmcia?
15:26 < sibiria> seems to be his only focus since a long time
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15:26 < farhan> FreeBSD is trying to revamp its wifi stack
15:27 < sibiria> it should look towards linux then :p
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15:27 < farhan> there actually is something that uses Linux drivers
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15:28 < farhan> i suspect eventually wifi will become a problem on OpenBSD
15:28 < sibiria> it already is unless you're using some of the supported intel stuff
15:28 < sibiria> wifi is on the whole outdated and poorly supported. a few intel chips are the exception
15:29 < sibiria> no wpa3, either. and no full integration with the 802.11 stack possible, so wpa_supplicant can't help out
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15:40 < farhan> thats a good way for an OS to fail to attract new users.
15:41 < pardis> to fail to attract new users, it would first need to have attempted to attract new users
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15:44 < sibiria> it's an understandable result given that there's no focus at all on the wifi stuff
15:44 < sibiria> but again, besides wpa3, at least some of the intel stuff seems to work great
15:45 < farhan> you know the guy from GNU? I forgot his name.
15:45 < aaronm04> I've been happy with WiFi support on my thinkpad carbon x1 fwiw
15:46 < aaronm04> And also my desktop PC with some random WiFi card off Amazon in it
15:46 < farhan> I know his username is rms, Stallman? Anyways, his ideology leads him to run a very very old computer that is no longer supported by the manufacturer. He has a desk fan blowing on it because it over-heats.
15:46 < farhan> Sure, he might be gung-ho about his ideology but it will almost certainly die with him.
15:47 < aaronm04> offtopic...
15:47 < aaronm04> we have a channel for that :)
15:47 < farhan> a lack of focus on wifi, which is a pretty basic thing these days, will result in that same fate.
15:47 < pardis> I'm sure your patches will be much appreciated on the lists
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15:48 < systemdsucks> usagi_mimi: you sound like a future void linux user (arcan is developed on void)
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15:56 < sibiria> aaronm04: the x1 should have something running on iwm/iwn/iwx i guess. but what's the usb one you have?
15:57 < sibiria> urtw? urtwn?
15:58 < sibiria> afaik the intel stuff are the only drivers that actually manage 802.11n or newer
15:59 < sibiria> 22 mbit/s 11g gets the job done but it's not pleasant
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16:00 < pardis> many recent ThinkPads have Qualcomm instead of Intel
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16:01 < pardis> so it may well have a qwx(4) instead
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16:05 < aaronm04> sibiria: iwm I believe. I don't have that laptop in front of me
16:05 < aaronm04> And I think the pcie one is iwx
16:05 < aaronm04> (it's not USB)
16:06 < aaronm04> Fenvi FV-AX3000 PCIe (Intel AX200)
16:06 < sibiria> ah
16:07 < aaronm04> and my thinkpad is 3rd gen (2016 or so)
16:07 < aaronm04> maybe 2015
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16:08 < aaronm04> I was inspired to get that by tedu's blog post about installing OpenBSD on it lol
16:11 < usagi_mimi> systemdsucks: Nah if I touch linux at all it's gentoo and hopefully in the future I'll be using TRON or something similar.
16:13 < usagi_mimi> In my opinion it was a mistake not to have all that stuff in the kernel itself anyway. Led to so much wasted work and duplicated effort over the years.
16:15 < usagi_mimi> The only reason I care about the future of X11 at all is the fact that I need it to run a lot of legacy software that the source code was lost for decades ago. Well that and working with video. I can pipe video around but at some point I have to actually render it to check it's right before sending it off to end users.
16:18 < remiliascarlet> Xorg recently got forked into XLibre, and FreeDesktop (free as in "draconian dictatorship with Orwellian censorship" of course) instantly censored it, Red Hat immediately mass-closed all open issues and pull requests, and the whole saga pretty much confirmed what I've been saying for nearly a decade: corporate Linux has killed Xorg to push Wayland on to everyone.
16:18 < remiliascarlet> https://linuxiac.com/xlibre-xserver-project-plans-revival-of-x11/
16:19 < usagi_mimi> Yeah we discussed it in here a little while ago that's how Arcan got brought up again in the first place
16:21 < usagi_mimi> All us old Amiga guys have been suffering since out beloved company died. We all took a detour into Win32/NT until the *synth filters finally got usable on Linux and ffmpeg matured. Then we got rug pulled again and now everyone has ended up on various flavors of BSD. It's amazing how many old Amiga friends I find randomly in the wild in the BSD communities these days.
16:21 < Bradipo> Haha, interesting observation.
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16:21 < usagi_mimi> I go where the video work takes me :)
16:22 < usagi_mimi> Someone has to archive, restore and preserve all these old VHS tapes
16:22 < remiliascarlet> usagi_mimi: Didn't you guys have heard of AROS?
16:22 < usagi_mimi> It doesn't have the tools needed to do the work in the modern world sadly.
16:22 < remiliascarlet> I never used Amiga myself, but I have toyed around with AROS a bit in a VM.
16:23 < usagi_mimi> We weren't in love with the OS as much as we were with the Genlocks
16:24 < usagi_mimi> Hence why we all ended up on Windows for awhile. Needed access to working capture card hardware, avisynth and the CPU power to encode DivX/XviD/mpeg2 video.
16:24 < remiliascarlet> But yes, Linux is a constantly changing platform, to the point it became a fragile environment, which is why I moved away from Linux after having been a user since 1997.
16:24 < Bradipo> "we all ended upon Windows"?
16:25 < usagi_mimi> There was a time between about 1998 and the mid-2000s where you needed Windows to do any serious work with video.
16:25 < usagi_mimi> Now there is ffmpeg and vapoursynth so it isn't an issue anymore
16:25 < remiliascarlet> I do have a Linux PC for gaming, but all my servers are either OpenBSD or FreeBSD, and my programming laptop is OpenBSD.
16:25 < Bradipo> I see, for those who were doing video work.
16:26 < remiliascarlet> The whole 2000s was the decade where everything was written in C# .NET, which means that most software couldn't be ported over.
16:27 < remiliascarlet> And browsers all used either Frash or that IE6-only thing, another thing that made Linux barely usable.
16:27 < remiliascarlet> s/Frash/Flash
16:27 < usagi_mimi> Up until about 6 years ago I still knew a few people using Amigas for work. But it can't handle modern resolutions of course so the work was limited to SD sources. Now we by-pass the capture cards all together for better quality on those old sources so there isn't any reason to use them anymore (plus maintaining the hardware and finding working replacements has gotten expensive)
16:28 < usagi_mimi> Even in the late 90s/early 2000s we used Amigas for timing and subtitling. But we exported the work to a Windows machine to do a final edit before it went to end users a lot of the time.
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16:29 < remiliascarlet> In the 1990s I'd rather expect you'd use IRIX.
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16:31 < echelon> hi, when i configured my network interface during the install, it added this to the end.. 0xffffff00
16:31 < echelon> what does it represent?
16:31 < usagi_mimi> As far as I know it didn't have avisynth support which was required to do write the filters we used to restore old sources.
16:31 < thrig> 0xffffff00 could be 255.255.255.0
16:31 < echelon> oh!
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16:32 < thrig> aka a slash 24
16:32 < echelon> the contents of /etc/hostname.em0 are just: inet 192.168.24.25 0xffffff00
16:32 < echelon> and i can't even ping the gateway for some reason
16:34 < rIMpossible> How can one set NumLock to on, when starting X? I am searching for the relevant .Xdefaults entry, but cannot find anything what works. Any idea?
16:34 < Bradipo> It would probably go in xorg.conf if anywhere.
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16:37 < echelon> ugh! it was pf
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16:37 < usagi_mimi> rIMpossible: add "numlockx &" to .xsession
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16:37 < rIMpossible> Bradipo: It should go in ~/.Xdefaults, so every user can control it how one wants. But *Numlock:on results in nothing
16:38 < rIMpossible> usagi_mimi: Is it a package?
16:39 < usagi_mimi> Yes it's in ports IIRC
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16:40 < usagi_mimi> If you use some kind of DE that's not in base there are various other ways to enable it at log-in
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16:42 < rIMpossible> ok, thankx
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16:54 < usagi_mimi> It's worth checking to see if you can turn it on in your BIOS as well
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17:04 < Bradipo> rIMpossible: "xset led" might be of interest.
17:04 < Bradipo> I don't know if it actually toggles the state or just the led though.
17:05 < Bradipo> Though, it seems that while 'xset led named "Scroll lock" on' turns on the Scroll Lock LED, I cannot seem to make it work for "Num Lock".
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17:07 < Bradipo> Interesting: xset -led named "Scroll lock" will turn it off, but xset led named "Scroll lock" off does not.
17:08 < Bradipo> I see, on/off are not used in that way.
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17:08 < Bradipo> "xset led on" or "xset led off" will turn on the "Scroll lock" led only.
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17:11 < rIMpossible> Bradipo: one needs XkbLockModifiers ( dpy, XkbUseCoreKbd, mask, 0) for OFF and XkbLockModifiers ( dpy, XkbUseCoreKbd, mask, mask) for turning it on
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17:20 < Bradipo> Yeah, well, the button on my keyboard works. :-)
17:20 < Bradipo> And it currently defaults to off, so that's good enough for me.
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17:25 < rIMpossible> Bradipo: Lacyness is it ...
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17:50 < rIMpossible> Bradipo: I tried all 32 numbers for xset led [1-32] led on. nothing but scroll lock worked
17:51 < Bradipo> Yeah, very odd.  I'm not sure what's up with that.
17:51 < rIMpossible> I'll find out. Need to find out, how to read the xkbmaps and then lookup numlock
17:52 < rIMpossible> with wsconsctl I got it done, but as soon, as x starts, of course, it turns off
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17:56 < usagi_mimi> you might find this useful rIMpossible https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/turn-numlock-on-after-boot.64310/#post-374074
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18:31 < ser> rIMpossible: according to xev numloc is keycode 77, you could use xmodmap and try
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18:31 < ser> *numlock
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18:43 < avemestr> Interesting read: https://rsadowski.de/posts/2025/ffs-optimizations-dirhash/
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19:04 < Jaywalker> Afternoon folks! I've setup a transparent SSL proxy with relayd, but what I'd like to do now is capture a pcap of the decrypted traffic before forwarding it encrypted to the destination. It doesn't look like relayd has an option for that per the man pages, so I'm hoping someone has an idea for me
19:05 < Jaywalker> ideally I'd get both the request and response in an unencrypted form and in a pcap file
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20:12 < vortexx> Jaywalker: could you share your relayd.conf please? I'd be quite interested in seeing how that's done, couldn't figure it out when I last tried some 18 (or was it 30?) months ago
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20:33 < Jaywalker> vortexx: Just the relayd with ssl interception? Sure. I don't have the logging though yet
20:33 < Jaywalker> one sec
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20:37 < Jaywalker> vortexx: https://termbin.com/whzc
20:37 < Jaywalker> and I generated my keypair with openssl genrsa -out /etc/ssl/private/127.0.0.1.key 4096 && openssl req -new -x509 -days 365 -key /etc/ssl/private/127.0.0.1.key -out /etc/ssl/127.0.0.1.crt
20:38 < Jaywalker> and of course, you'll need the divert-to in pf.conf like this: pass in proto tcp from any to any port 443 divert-to 127.0.0.1 port 8443
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20:47 < usagi_mimi> avemestr: I did the suggested change to max the other day and so far so good
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20:51 < sibiria> for that local portion you may want to use ecc instead of rsa, to make things snappy when signing
20:51 < sibiria> in case you'll be serving a lot of connections, that is
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20:59 < vortexx> Jaywalker: thanks!
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21:57 < waffles> good evening gamers
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22:01 < vortexx> sibiria: maybe athn could get tedu'd, along with a bunch of the earliest wifi drivers
22:02 < vortexx> and I can confirm how badly that driver works. Also I've have pcmcia 802.11g adapters in the past
22:02 < vortexx> (don't remember if they worked in OpenBSD though)
22:04 < waffles> so if i set xenodm to start on boot will that display manager conflict with xfce
22:04 < waffles> i noticed when i logged in i got kicked to tty cause i had start xfce4 in xsession
22:09 < Bradipo> I have old PCMCIA cards that work with OpenBSD.
22:09 < Bradipo> waffles: You should be able to have startxfce4 in your .xsession.
22:09 < waffles> ya it worked until i rebooted
22:10 < waffles> and then i kept getting kicked back to logibn
22:10 < Bradipo> Did xenodm start after you rebooted?
22:10 < waffles> yes
22:10 < Bradipo> What's in your .xsession-errors ?
22:10 < waffles> but i couldnt start a desktop
22:11 < waffles> idk im reinstalling rq to check for cdonflicts
22:11 < waffles> xfce gonna takree a min to install
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22:33 < waffles> alright ive installed xfce and dsone exec startxfce4 in my xsessio
22:33 < waffles> for some reason when i login and startx i get xenodm even though i didnt choose to enable that on startup in the installer
22:35 < Bradipo> startx isn't exactly the "supported" method for running X on OpenBSD.
22:36 < waffles> oh what should i be using instead
22:36 < Bradipo> xenodm.
22:36 < waffles> isnt xenodm a full desktop environment
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22:36 < Bradipo> As root: rcctl enable xenodm
22:36 < Bradipo> No.
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22:37 < mischief> it's a login manager, like xdm
22:37 < mischief> more or less a fancy version of getty+login+startx
22:37 < Bradipo> By default, when you login from xenodm you get fvwm.
22:38 < Bradipo> If you don't like that then you can change ~/.xession
22:38 < waffles> yeah thats where i had issues... lemme try it and see if i get any errors
22:39 < waffles> ah yeah ur right, enabling that did get me to xfce
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22:52 < waffles> so im moving from freebsd xfce to openbsd
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22:52 < waffles> im used to using picom for screen tearing but on openbsd picom doesnt seem to come with a tearfree config
22:54 < cqst> does openbsd xenodm start X rootless?
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22:55 < Bradipo> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq11.html
22:55 < Bradipo> Not sure if that will have answers.
22:58 < cqst> It seems to be implied to be rootless, or at least more privsepped out then Linux X
22:59 < cqst> Most Linux display managers run X as root, only gdm doesn't. Rootless X works on Linux through elogind/polkit
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23:03 < cqst> Looks like xenodm starts X as root with Xstartup which then exits and starts the Xsession as a regular user 
23:03 < cqst> This is maybe superior to Linux rootful X starts with xdm, sddm, lightdm. But I don't know
23:06 < pardis> X cannot run as a non-root user without sacrificing some hardware support
23:07 < pardis> it therefore cannot be the standard configuration for OpenBSD, which supports such hardware
23:08 < pardis> the X server is patched to run privilege-separated so that only the parts which really need root privileges have them, though
23:09 < cqst> Well at least its not setuid anymore 
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23:36 < passstab> Hi
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23:38 < passstab> Bradipo I now have Fuguita on a 64 gig thumb drive. How would you suggest I run strings?
23:44 < pardis> presumably with execve(2)
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--- Log closed Wed Jun 11 00:00:03 2025