--- Log opened Tue Jul 01 00:00:31 2025
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01:09 < nephele> Is there any way to turn off the constant beeping in the terminal on autocompletion or when doing stuff in vi? i.e whenever it thinks to use the mainboard speaker
01:10 < systemdsucks> there was a module called pcspkr 
01:10 < systemdsucks> blacklist it
01:11 < systemdsucks> ah shit this is not a linux channel
01:11 < systemdsucks> sorry, ignore what I said
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01:19 < fro> nephele: try wsconsctl keyboard.bell.volume=0
01:20 < nephele> Thanks, that did it :)
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01:45 < noodle> hi everyone. how can i subscribe to misc@opensmtpd.com? it's not listed on the reply from majordomo@openbsd.org when i send 'lists' to it. i tried to send a 'subscribe misc' to majordomo@opensmtpd.org but it bounced with 550 Invalid recipient. thx
01:45 < noodle> sorry i mean misc@opensmtpd.org
01:47 < itrsea> noodle: same, there is no subscribing
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01:49 < noodle> itrsea: sad
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02:36 < itrsea> u[bs]er-sad
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06:25 < remiliascarlet> g4rrgl3n0m4d: I asked that same question on #freebsd and #netbsd. On #netbsd I got ignored, and on #freebsd I got mixed reactions, but primarily political statements. I deliberately didn't ask here, because OpenBSD already has Xenocara, so XLibre isn't as much of a necessity on OpenBSD than it is on any other Unix-like OS.
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06:47 < averymt> remiliascarlet, XLibre and Xenocara fulfill different purposes, don't they? Even when going solely off of their stated goals. From what I've read, Xenocara is *just* supposed to unify the X11 source tree back to a monolithic build as it was in R6
06:48 < averymt> whereas XLibre has a more political (or anti-political) goal
06:48 < remiliascarlet> averymt: Yes, though I also heard that there's some proper security model in Xenocara as well. Information is all over the place.
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06:49 < remiliascarlet> averymt: XLibre made it clear that they stay out of politics from the very beginning. It's just the crazy wokies that call it "political", but they see politics in literally everything.
06:50 < remiliascarlet> I could even say "the sun is shining and the sky is blue", and the woke left would somehow find an "alt right statement" in this sentence.
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06:57 < averymt> I said it has a political goal *because* it's taking a self-proclaimed anti-political stance (and I hope it stays true to that! only time will tell). to my understanding, the goal it says it has is to remove politics from the project. since it's a decision *about* politics, it *is* political.
06:58 < averymt> not necessarily for or against a specific set of ideas, but still political
06:58 < remiliascarlet> Where is the evidence of any political statement coming from Mutex himself then?
07:00 < remiliascarlet> Sure, I disagree with the "create new humanoid race" thing, that's controlled opposition shit. But the rest of what he said on the Linux mailing list back then was correct.
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07:02 < averymt> Apologies if I was unclear, I was only talking about what he has said in regards to XLibre. I wasn't talking about his prior messages on LKML, just his desire to remove politics from X.org by forking it into XLibre
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07:03 < remiliascarlet> Then how is removing politics political? It's like saying that firemen are all pyromans because they remove fire.
07:03 < remiliascarlet> s/firemen/fire fighters
07:04 < remiliascarlet> Or that shopkeepers are all thiefs because they take measures to prevent theft.
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07:22 < averymt> I get your analogies but I don't think they're the same scenario. My point is that declaring you're against politics and making it one of your main selling points instead of quietly stating it and then moderating it is designed to gain social power. That social power is, itself, political, since that's what politics is at its core. 
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07:24 < averymt> I'm speaking of politics more broadly than at a party/country level btw
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07:30 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> greetings
07:30 < averymt> o/
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07:33 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> I asked yesterday about X11Libre in this channel just because I like to use old window managers and I'm concearned that they will be lost if wayland becomes the standard. I think the project has merit just by keeping X11 alive
07:34 < andrath> external politics should never be a part of software. It's anathema to the whole idea of open source. Open source is for all humans, even the ones you disagree with. Hence removing politics from a project by forking it, and reviving it by actually maintaining it is actually a good thing. I also don't give a toss about what metux his personal convictions are, all I know is that he has put in the
07:34 < andrath> work, and is willing to do a lot more.
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07:38 < andrath> FDO doesn't really want to maintain Xorg anymore, Xlibre does. So if you want to base xenocara off of something that will actually be maintain and will accept xenocara patches into it's mainline, then Xlibre should actually be considered
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08:04 < RobbieAB> I was going to say, my understanding of the XLibre fork was that it was less about "removing politics" and more about "removing ensconced interests that are refusing to actually maintain X11"
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08:08 < andrath> It's actually exactly that. The comments about poltics (or lack thereoff) are actually pretty unfortunate and unhelpful
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08:10 < andrath> It would have been better if the project did an "OpenBSD" by just not having a CoC and no statements about politics at all, maybe a statement about netiquette
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08:25 < ssm_> 99% of the time I see an "apolitical" it's a shield for hiding the apoliticist's opinions about shoving x ethnicity into a torment nexus/meat grinder, and if you challenge it, you are political. many such cases.
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08:28 < andrath> Xlibre just wants to maintain X11. This whole "political" thing kinda poisoned the well. Let's look at the merit instead and disregard the ideologs.
08:28 < ssm_> 9front has a very good CoC
08:28 < andrath> CoCs are unnecessary
08:28 < ssm_> it's AI enhanced, you need to reload it to adapt to the changing environment
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08:31 < ssm_> andrath: I agree, but people who complain about CoC's are the most and endlessly political. usually starts at complaining about CoC's all the time because it contains stuff they don't like
08:31 < ssm_> usually people don't complain about such things unless it 'gets in the way' somehow
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08:33 < andrath> What OpenBSD does is actually perfect. A short blurb about netiquette that basically says "Don't be a dick, people disagree. Deal with it offline" is all you need.
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08:41 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> I can say one of the reasons that made me look for linux alternatives is all the political charge in it, the forced uniformization it feels that linux just became another cog in the surveillance machine
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08:49 < andrath> I actually chose OpenBSD because it's a smaller and simpler system that I can wrap my head around with not so many moving parts
08:50 < andrath> for my work I have to deal with the penguin though, and I don't like what I have to deal with there. Luckily it only needs to pay my bills.
08:52 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> since I retired I have been exploring openbsd the only downside so far is the requirement to reboot every time I want to test some kernel drivers changes
08:53 < ssm_> I use openbsd because there is a pufferfish
08:54 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> but has been a good way to learn systems development, have been getting into bootloading stuff for embeded systems a lot of reading...
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10:06 < remiliascarlet> ssm_: The problem of most CoC's is that they're not upheld evenly across all members. So you very often get one side that is more like the antifa/LGBT types that will spread outright hatred and insult people as much as they want with no consequences, and you have the other side that has to watch out what they're saying, because even saying 1 letter of the least "offensive" word can already trigger
10:06 < remiliascarlet> a ban.
10:08 < remiliascarlet> avemestr: The no politics part is not their main selling point, it's one of their selling points. Actually the same thing with OpenBSD, which also has no politics as one of their selling points.
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10:09 < remiliascarlet> andrath: "Open source is for all humans" Exactly what I've been saying for the past decade, and yet people get banned left and right over not having the same political beliefs. It's weird that it's only now considered a problem, even though this problem has persisted for at least a whole decade now.
10:10 < sonya> all anomals are equal, but some animals are more equal, than others..
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10:32 < RobbieAB> andrath: "Don't be a dick" should be sufficient CoC, and the fact that it isn't seen to be suggests to me that someone is already violating it. That said, my problem with most CoCs is they typically contain clear and obvious problems, which their proponents are often utterly unwilling fix.
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10:37 < RobbieAB> remiliascarlet: It's a deeply complicated topic... And it isn't a new one. It goes back at least 80 years now.
10:39 < RobbieAB> But to take a modern and semi-plausible question: Should Hans Reiser be allowed to contribute code to a FOSS project again? (I am firmly in the camp that yes, he should, if said code meets required technical standards, etc)
10:39 < remiliascarlet> Except 80 years ago there was no internet (at least not to the extend it exists as today), so everyone met each other in real life. So if somebody came in for the purpose to divide and conquer, they'd just beat the shit out of that person.
10:40 < RobbieAB> remiliascarlet: It's the same question as what should we do with Nazi Science, at it's core.
10:40 < remiliascarlet> Hans Reiser is the guy behind ReiserFS, right?
10:40 < RobbieAB> He was, he is also a convicted wife killer.
10:41 < RobbieAB> But... If he was to return, pick up Reiser4, and finish it, should the world reject it because he wrote it? 
10:41 < remiliascarlet> I heard about that. But I believe that everyone has the right to contribute code to FOSS projects, regardless of what they do in real life.
10:41 < andrath> If his code is good and clean, I see no reason to reject it.
10:41 < RobbieAB> Which is also my position.
10:42 < RobbieAB> If we judge purely on technical merit, we judge purely on technical merit. 
10:42 < remiliascarlet> RobbieAB: By the way, your name kind of reminds me to a YouTube channel that covers FreeBSD. Is that you?
10:42 < RobbieAB> Nothing to do with me. Ironically, my interactions with FreeBSD have been... Awkward at best.
10:42 < remiliascarlet> Oh, nevermind, I confused you with RoboNuggie somehow.
10:43 < andrath> open source and criminal justice are two completely different hemispheres and one should not care about the other. If open source breaks the law, the justice system can take that up with the author.
10:43 < RobbieAB> Nope, FreeBSD still haven't fixed the part of their CoC I found objectionable. :( 
10:44 < andrath> I understood that they use the LLVM CoC now
10:44 < RobbieAB> I object to including "
10:44 < RobbieAB> Unwelcome sexual attention.
10:44 < RobbieAB> in the list of examples of harassment
10:44 < remiliascarlet> RobbieAB: "If we judge purely on technical merit, we judge purely on technical merit." That's the ideal world, yes. Unfortunately, we live in a world right now where you can get cancelled because your grandpa who died a decades ago might have said "nigger" once during his childhood, or something ridiculous like that. And that's what modern FOSS people then weaponize to keep certain people out.
10:44 < RobbieAB> It needs a "Repeated" inserted at the front.
10:44 < andrath> yeah that's oddly specific
10:45 < RobbieAB> Because absent the repeated, simply asking someone out and getting rejected counts as harassment, while the same action with acceptance would not.
10:46 < sonya> we need Mark Twain asap..
10:46 < bountyht> RobbieAB: I think that people who thinks criminals shold not be allowed to contribute to a project are hipocrites because they are the sort of people who also opposes the dead penalty. You cannot oppose the dead penalty and then act as if somebody does not deserve to make a living.
10:47 < remiliascarlet> "Unwelcome sexual attention." I'm a woman, but I'm not concerned about that at all. It's not like we have the technology where I can get raped from the opposite end of the planet or something.
10:47 < andrath> that reminds me of a bash.org quote about a device to stab people over the internet
10:47 < RobbieAB> remiliascarlet: My point is even simpler: How does someone know if it will be welcome? They ask. Except that asking and getting told no is already harassment.
10:48 < RobbieAB> Which has the effect of making the definition arbitrary.
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10:48 < remiliascarlet> RobbieAB: So basically, you're already convicted of a crime before you get told about it? OK...
10:48 < andrath> it's also vague. Who defines "unwelcome"?
10:48 < RobbieAB> andrath: The reciever, obviously.
10:49 < andrath> yes, but why should a CoC enforcer be tasked with that?
10:49 < gid> you know there's a difference between asking someone out and sexual harassment right?
10:49 < RobbieAB> gid: We do, that's why we object to a definition of harassment that effectively equates the first with the second in the case the recipient of the question says no.
10:50 < gid> how does it equate the first with the second?
10:50 < remiliascarlet> And there's also a difference between telling the opposite sex a compliment and sticking a certain bodypart into another bodypart without consent.
10:50 < bountyht> gid: I know enough people who thinks getting asked out is an agressive action
10:50 < RobbieAB> If I ask someone out, that is "sexual attention"... If they say no, it's clearly unwanted. In terms of the legal definitions of sexual harassment this is still in the space of "Yeah, no".
10:50 < bountyht> But then I think they get the karma they deserve because they will end up being crazy cat ladies
10:51 < gid> no, if you ask someone out it's not necessarily sexual intention
10:51 < remiliascarlet> bountyht: Well, Darvin will take care of those people I guess.
10:51 < RobbieAB> But in terms of the FreeBSD CoC, that is already enough to cross the line into harassment.
10:51 < gid> if you make it clear your intent is sex, _then_ that's sexual intention
10:51 < anexit> uwharrie: Then what would you call it %^
10:52 < bountyht> remiliascarlet: I think the West in general is cooked in this regard because it is epidemic at this point. If you check the statistics, satisfaction with love life is at an all time low. People either does not build lasting relationships or hate the ones they are in.
10:52 < bountyht> It works for me, I am a happy crazy horse cowboy.
10:52 < RobbieAB> gid: To be clear, my point is that the simple act of asking once is not harassment, but the CoC isn't clear on the point that harassment is a repeated pattern of behaviour.
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10:52 < andrath> and all we want is an X11 stack that just gets maintained, in the end
10:52 < remiliascarlet> bountyht: It affects the East as well, but with slightly different variables.
10:53 < RobbieAB> andrath: Oh, on that I completely agree... We are semi-seriously discussing adopting openbsd as a desktop OS at work for that one reason.
10:53 < remiliascarlet> It feels like India is the only demographic that's still having more babies than elderly people.
10:53 < bountyht> RobbieAB: honestly, you would need plug-and-play support for USB mass storage for it to fit the bill IMO.
10:54 < bountyht> You can bolt support on yourself but it is kinda not the same
10:54 < RobbieAB> bountyht: No we wouldn't. :)
10:54 < bountyht> Then what is blocking you?
10:54 < andrath> some sort of volume management wouldn't go amiss on OpenBSD
10:54 < RobbieAB> In fact, lacking USB mass-storage would be a plus. :)
10:54 < RobbieAB> bountyht: Well, we are a Linux shop, and it is unlikely that the servers are going to change (driver reasons)
10:55 < RobbieAB> But... X is a hard requirement, Wayland doesn't cut it.
10:55 < bountyht> RobbieAB: it is funny, we use a Linux virtualization platform to run loads of oPENbsd VIRTUAL MACHINES HERE xd
10:55 < bountyht> Damn caps
10:55 < andrath> yeah, X is there, it works and it "does the thing"
10:56 < RobbieAB> So as a semi-joke, semi-serious proposal when we discussed EL10 dropping X completely, I suggested openbsd. I didn't get shot down straight away.
10:58 < bountyht> RobbieAB: to be honest, I expect some X implementation to be available for Linux for quite a long time. The question is when it will get dropped from corporate Red Hattish distributions
10:58 < RobbieAB> EL10 dropped X packages, and is Wayland only. XWayland doesn't expose some of the functionality we depend on.
10:59 < RobbieAB> Which leads us to the question: What is the least bad option for us?
10:59 < andrath> I hate how FDO dismisses accesibility issues with Wayland. Things like screenreaders for the visually impaired won't work with Wayland.
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11:00 < RobbieAB> andrath: That is consistent with the patterns seen in the Linux userland for close to two decades now.
11:00 < sibiria> bountyht: openbsd does have UMS support. or do you mean NTFS + exFAT + "icon on the desktop when i put the thing in the thing"?
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11:01 < bountyht> sibiria: Yeah I mean NTFS+exFAT with a night desktop notification. TBH with hotplugd et al you can simulate it and mount your FAT volumes fine but still I don't think as OBSD currently stands, it meets expectations there
11:02 < RobbieAB> The irony is, for a corporate desktop, the pattern I have seen is to want to disable usb mass-storage.
11:02 < sibiria> it has all the pieces (except the file system support), someone just has to put the logic glue there hte same way typical linux distros do
11:03 < bountyht> RobbieAB: how big is your shop? Because if it is bing enough you can use some source based or semi-based distribution and deploy upgrades to your workstations yourself from your own build server
11:03 < sibiria> we hvae to do it with hotplugd. linux has to do it with udevadm
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11:03 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> RobbieAB: yes even non corporate environment will prefer to have usb storage disabled
11:03 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> and usb keyboard devices too
11:04 < sibiria> g4rrgl3n0m4d: then how is Brenda at accounting gonna be able to plug her "USB" in and show her cat pictures to the others?
11:04 < andrath> you can always epoxy the USB ports shut ;)
11:04 < RobbieAB> bountyht: There are plenty of options, the question really is which one would we want to take. In principle, we could just build our own X packages, but... That is a path we would prefer to avoid.
11:04 < andrath> but if you don't want usb storage, you can disable the ums driver itself
11:04 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> usbguard does a pretty good job in linux
11:04 < bountyht> sibiria: I admin for a clinic and the biggest show stopped is cdroms not automounting, specially the ones you are expected to run java applications from. I know we could do it eventually but my current situation makes me thing "why bother?"
11:05 < bountyht> Man I am typoing so hard today
11:06 < RobbieAB> If you can find a system with proper PS/2 and decent PS/2 keyboard and mice, completely disabling USB would be quite a desirable route.
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11:07 < RobbieAB> sibiria: These days Brenda in accounting probably has slack on her phone so can easily share the cat pics direct from the phone. :)
11:07 < bountyht> I think that is pretty much doable
11:07 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> usbguard allows you to create a list of allowed usb devices to be enabled on plugin
11:07 < RobbieAB> (Let's not think about the slightly schizophrenic insanity of these security policies)
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11:08 < andrath> config(8) can disable ums in a kernel, so you still have hid (keyboards, mice), just no storage
11:08 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> that reduces a lot of security issues with unauthorized usb hardware
11:08 < sibiria> to be fair, such countermeasures could probably have prevented a lot of IP theft and network intrusions from various foreign actors
11:08 < sibiria> you just need one friendly machine for a good chance to pivot into a company network
11:08 < RobbieAB> andrath: We have explicit blacklists of certain USB device drivers.
11:09 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> andrath: but with micro controllers today it's easy to create a tool to mimic keyboard and inject a bunch of commands on plug
11:09 < RobbieAB> sibiria: Oh, I get that, I meant the combination with hosted slack + slack on everyones phone.
11:09 < andrath> yeah badusb is a thing
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11:09 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> even android has that issue
11:10 < RobbieAB> Pretty sure if push came to shove, bad actors could make a PS/2 interface that pretended to be a keyboard and dumped naughtyness... Though I also agree far less likely to get people to plug it in when they shouldn't.
11:10 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> RobbieAB: I used rocket chat as a self hosted Slack
11:10 < sonya> vps with sshd on custom port.. and usb 'issue' is not an issue anymore..
11:11 < sonya> if access to internet is granted..
11:12 < RobbieAB> If access to the internet is granted, exfiltration of data becomes trivial...
11:12 < sonya> yep..
11:12 < RobbieAB> I mean, do you actually police the data portion of a ping packet?
11:12 < andrath> mo' networks, mo' problems
11:12 < sonya> even if it's not.. there're plenty of ways..
11:12 < RobbieAB> How about DNS queries?
11:13 < andrath> you can do VPN over DNS queries
11:13 < andrath> it's slow, but it can be done
11:13 < RobbieAB> andrath: You have the type of evil twisted mind I like! :D
11:14 < andrath> BOFH with more than 254 years of experience. I have seen some twisted shit
11:14 < andrath> s/254/25/
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11:16 < RobbieAB> I have amused myself in past roles torturing the security team explaining how I could get round their restrictions, so here is a list of gaps that need closing.
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11:17 < andrath> fuzzing things you shouldn't also is a great source of entertainment
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11:19 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> like bringing a computer found in trash and use it as your workstation in the company?
11:20 < andrath> a simple rpi zero will do fine. Harder to locate too
11:20 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> the machine had a bios backdor
11:20 < sonya> l'trash notebook' is o'k for business trips in the wild and far from 'civilization'.. my P-IV is still not stolen :))
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11:22 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> but the company was secretly installing keyloggers and screen captures in the byo machines so they didn't complaint about when they were hacked from it
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11:39 < anexit> hey all I had rad working but is there a way to set the gateway?  The openbsd client is pulling the wrong address.
11:42 < dlg> route add?
11:44 < anexit> well it should pull it from rad, i have all my ipv6 address, just cant ping snything because the ipv6 gateway is some gif interface.  needs to be set to em1 address on the router
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14:08 < PyR3X> I have a custom response file and custom siteXX-hostname.tgz. I want one click install on my VPS. What is the best way to attain an unattended install? Do I build a custom bsd.rd that includes the auto_install and siteXX-hostname.tgz? I do not want to package all sets but do I still include my own index SHA and sigs?
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15:29 < talisc> https://docs.mesa3d.org/meson.html
15:29 < talisc> guys
15:29 < talisc> i found this 
15:30 < talisc> has anybody ever tried? 
15:31 < thrig> ECONTEXT
15:32 < talisc> ahaha
15:32 < talisc> install mesa video drivers on OpenBSD 
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15:36 < talisc> amd mesa drivers do have great performance, lately.
15:38 < oldlaptop> The OpenBSD developers maintain mesa for OpenBSD as part of the xenocara tree. It comes with the X sets.
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15:39 < oldlaptop> It's not trivial to upgrade to a new version; once the OpenBSD developers get a new one working, it'll come with the latest OpenBSD snapshots just like any other part of the system.
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15:40 < talisc> ooh
15:40 < talisc> nice
15:41 < talisc> thx
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16:41 < ssm_> I've upgraded and downgraded in all sorts of unsupported ways and never ran into issues as long as I did a proper sysclean. this is not a recommendation to do this, I can imagine things can definitely go wrong with config merges and the like
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17:13 < vortexx> Bradipo: yes I was following the remote upgrade procedure when that incident with ftp happened
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17:17 < Bradipo> I guess it wasn't thoroughly documented then.
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18:09 < vortexx> patch tuesday... xserver and pledge
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18:21 < Bradipo> If there's one thing I cannot stand it's a web browser that thinks it knows more about what I want than I do.
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18:22 < Bradipo> I want my browser to access http://blah.dom:443/ because I know that there is no SSL on port 443 on this system.
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18:22 < Bradipo> But it insists on switching to https://blah.dom/
18:23 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> yeah that sucks
18:23 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> my tv browse does that al the time
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18:25 < Bradipo> This seems remotely relevant: https://superuser.com/questions/1721511/firefox-allow-http-urls-and-not-force-https
18:25 < sibiria> Bradipo: firefox has a setting for you to disable taht
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18:26 < Bradipo> Does it?  I'm not sure.
18:26 < sibiria> buried in about:config
18:26 < Bradipo> Yeah, I've been digging through about:config.
18:26 < sibiria> unless they removed that, too, like with so many other useful things
18:26 < Bradipo> I've disabled all kinds of things, and yet when I enter http://site.dom:443/ it insists on switching to https://site.dom/
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18:27 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> has anyone tryed the lasy bird browser?
18:27 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> *lady :)
18:27 < Bradipo> I want it to take what I give it and not guess.
18:27 < ssm_> g4rrgl3n0m4d: that's ported?
18:27 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> nah
18:27 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> it's still beta
18:28 < PyR3X> if i build a custom ramdisk should I put the siteXY.tgz in mnt2 and use the second Location of sets question for disk and the path of /? Is that idiomatic?
18:28 < ssm_> there was a port submitted several months ago but I think it's abandoned. I tried building it several times but never got anywhere
18:29 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> yeah I tried yo build it as well and breaks all over the place
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18:30 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> I think ubuntu is required if you don't want to hack it
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18:33 < ssm_> the entire(?) browser was also reprogrammed in swift since the port was submitted, which is likely a lot of work to fix
18:33 < ssm_> considering we don't have a swift port in lang/
18:34 < ssm_> kind of stopped caring after that. I got very excited when dillo and netsurf got updates after several years of inactivity instead
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18:35 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> It would it be nice to have a html engine and javascript engine not gtk dependable probably as an openbsd like framework
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18:37 < ssm_> truth is I don't want modern web capabilities; rtc, webgl, webgpu, scripts, it can all fsck off. static site gen is just better from a security and simplicity perspective
18:37 < ssm_> as such links, w3m have me covered already
18:39 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> ssm_: I get you! I built my own browser using webkit gtk just to remove those functionalities and is amazing how many sites refuse to run when they can't access the audio api and graphics acceleration hardware
18:39 < itrsea> g4rrgl3n0m4d: how many sites?
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18:40 < ssm_> bot scrapers mean everyone is requiring scripts now for {proof of work,more tree burning}, which makes it significantly harder if there aren't useragent whitelists like there are (still?) in anubis
18:40 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> youtube, aliexpress, amazon... and most official European websites
18:40 < ssm_> g4rrgl3n0m4d: youtube gets a 3rd party client
18:40 < itrsea> What a shock
18:40 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> but most sites use audio api to fingerprint you
18:41 < ssm_> -s/harder/less accessible/
18:41 < phy1729> Could y'all stick to OpenBSD please
18:41 < ssm_> it's all about fingerprinting
18:41 < ssm_> sure
18:41 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> sorry phy1729 
18:43 < itrsea> OpenBSD suggests one to have a static website.
18:43 < itrsea> httpd
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18:44 < ssm_> I'm surprised we got a www/anubis port so soon. pf queues and conn overloading not good enough? :)
18:44 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> the problem isn't if the site is static or dynamic, it's the assumption that is you visit their domain they are entitled to know the color of your undies
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18:48 < systemdsucks> the "modern browser" is a remote code execution environment
18:48 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> one thing I found curious was this error I get from some sites "The GStreamer FDK AAC plugin is missing, AAC playback is unlikely to work." 
18:48 < g4rrgl3n0m4d> true systemdsucks , modern javascript is the new flash
18:48 < systemdsucks> (don't)use at your own risk
18:48 < phy1729> No really, the topic is OpenBSD not rant about things that suck
18:50 < ssm_> then what were all the early songs about?
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