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03:06 < farhan> hi all! I am building the kernel, specifically GENERIC, but whenever I do so it makes me rebuild the entire src tree. Is there a way to disable/prevent that>
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03:49 < oldlaptop> farhan: What do you mean by "makes [you] rebuild the entire src tree"?
03:50 < oldlaptop> That's not something that the build system (as described in release(8)) does. Building the kernel is a separate step, which you need to do before building the rest of the tree (separated by a reboot, at least per the instructions).
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11:00 < vortexx> farhan: that'd be something FreeBSD makes you do. On OpenBSD you can just rebuild the kernel
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11:35 < pr-asadi> Greetings. I need to setup a blog on my OpenBSD VPS, are there any static site generator or a blog that does not need to know any programming language for it? Just markup or text.
11:36 < IcePic> hugo is a golang program that takes markup and makes web
11:36 < IcePic> static site generator
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11:39 < andrath> hugo, jekyll, or roll your own
11:39 < andrath> I rolled my own @ andrath.nl :)
11:45 < pr-asadi> IcePic: Hugo is bloated.
11:45 < pr-asadi> andrath: How did you roll your own?
11:45 < pr-asadi> I do not know any web-related languages.
11:46 < pr-asadi> IcePic: Even though Hugo is bloated, I tried it a few weeks ago. The theme was not working fine.
11:46 < andrath> I wrote mine in ksh shellscripts. I write pages in groff, and I "compile" them to html
11:46 < pr-asadi> andrath: What about its UI?
11:46 < pr-asadi> Or theme.
11:46 < andrath> what ui?
11:46 < andrath> oh that's just CSS
11:47 < andrath> and some js
11:47 < pr-asadi> Well. I do not even know CSS. And I am not really into learning CSS.
11:47 < pr-asadi> And of course, I hate JS.
11:47 < pr-asadi> :D
11:47 < andrath> That's where you can leverage AI at, I suck at design too
11:47 < pr-asadi> andrath: I just want a simple UI. Just to include my career and write about things(History and such).
11:48 < sibiria> pr-asadi: there are a lot of online markdown-to-statis-html services
11:48 < pr-asadi> andrath: Can I see your ksh script?
11:48 < andrath> oh then just go with hugo or jekyll
11:48 < sibiria> static*
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11:48 < andrath> it's repo linked on the page
11:48 < pr-asadi> sibiria: Well. I should just convert markdown to HTML and upload it on my server?
11:49 < sibiria> pr-asadi: why not? if you don't intend for any advanced functionality it doesn't have to be more complicated than that
11:49 < andrath> hugo does the md -> html conversion, your job to upload it
11:49 < pr-asadi> andrath: I tried Hugo. The theme was not working well. UI was absurd.
11:49 < sibiria> saves you the problem of having to install/manage some software
11:49 < andrath> there is a UI?
11:49 < sibiria> keep your MD in your private files. convert and publish manually whenever you need to
11:49 < pr-asadi> andrath: By UI I mean a theme or something like that. 
11:50 < sibiria> it's HTML. copy, cat > index.html, ctrl+c
11:50 < andrath> oh yeah just ask grok/chatgpt/claude/whatever to make one for you
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11:50 < pr-asadi> sibiria: Well. You mean I should just have either md file or an HTML file and then move it to my HTTPD sever directory?
11:50 < andrath> I used to be principled about doing that myself, but I'm old and can't be arsed anymore
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11:51 < sibiria> pr-asadi: write in your MD. convert it to html (using any of the many free web-based tools) whenever you need to update. then just change the file on your server
11:51 < andrath> write a nice script to automate it
11:51 < andrath> generate html, upload html, and be merry
11:51 < sibiria> it's MD. you can use javascript to do it on the fly...
11:52 < pr-asadi> Hmm. That's a thing.
11:52 < pr-asadi> I am noob at web-related stuff.
11:52 < andrath> shellscripts work too
11:52 < sibiria> or *sh via cgi-bin, if you want to avoid JS
11:52 < pr-asadi> sibiria: What sh cgi-bin? How can I do it?
11:52 < pr-asadi> I know sh.
11:52 < andrath> or heck, do it in python if you really want to, it doesn't matter
11:52 < pr-asadi> sibiria: Of course I would want to avoid JS
11:52 < sibiria> cgi-bin is the web server executing something to process input
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11:53 < sibiria> similar to running e.g. a PHP script, except it's an older and slower way of doing it
11:53 < sibiria> in your case that'd be a *sh script just converting the MD to html
11:54 < sibiria> but, really... if you don't intend to update this thing once a week, just spending 20 seconds on manual conversion each time doesn't seem bad
11:56 < pr-asadi> sibiria: What would you if you were me? I just want to make a simple blog(With a satisfying look/theme) and also document the stuff I read about history
11:57 < sibiria> i'd use MD and look for a super simple script that converts MD to HTML, and I'd either run it via cgi-bin to convert in real time, or regularly in a cronjob
11:57 < sibiria> script being something *sh or perl, so that i didn't have to bother installing python for it
11:58 < sibiria> the fewer dependencies the better, in my mind
11:58 < andrath> sibiria: I wrote my static gen in ksh, no need to install anything (except for groff to render the HTML)
11:58 < sibiria> that's one way, seems tidy enough
11:59 < pr-asadi> sibiria: Sorry. I do not understand what you mean by converting with cgi-bin. Then what does the script that converts MD to HTML do?
11:59 < andrath> I tried using mandoc, but that's too specialized for manual pages
11:59 < sibiria> pr-asadi: cgi-bin is just a method in this case for running the program doing the conversion
11:59 < sibiria> a method invoked by the web server itself, whenever someone loads this or that page
11:59 < pr-asadi> The MD to HTML conversion?
12:00 < sibiria> yes
12:00 < sibiria> cgi-bin = "execute this thing when someone browses this page/document on my web server"
12:00 < andrath> I used a git push hook that called a websocket handler to trigger the rendering, so when I commit, it recompiles the pages
12:01 < sibiria> meaning, conversion happens in real time. if you'd instead do it with a cronjob, it would happen at some pre-defined regular interval. tomato tomaaato
12:01 < pr-asadi> Hmm. How can I use this cgi? It's used in the httpd daemon?
12:01 < sibiria> yes you have to configure the httpd to perform that
12:02 < andrath> I would add a special "variable" to the cgi, so search engines won't trigger renders all the damn time
12:02 < pr-asadi> sibiria: Is there a quick guide that can help me? It's my first step to the web-related things.
12:03 < sibiria> it's a bit messy with openbsd's own httpd, because it actually doesn't support regular cgi-bin anymore. it needs to be done over fastcgi. all the tools needed are in the base system, and there are some examples in the httpd.conf man page and the slowcgi man page
12:03 < sibiria> technically it's simpler to do this once per minute with a cronjob
12:03 < andrath> you can wrap normal cgis in slowcgi I think
12:04 < sibiria> yes, it's provided as a compat bridge for this
12:04 < pr-asadi> sibiria: Well. I am confused. What should I exactly include inside a cronjob?
12:05 < sibiria> you run the program there, that converts your MD file to HTML
12:05 < sibiria> whatever that may be. *sh script, perl program, python if you have to
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12:05 < sibiria> or andrath's things, which seems to do MD-to-HTML?
12:06 < pr-asadi> Well. I see
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12:06 < pr-asadi> How can I then give a good look to the page?
12:07 < sibiria> MD with custom CSS is a thing
12:07 < sibiria> but i get the impression that you want a basic web UI doing all of the lifting for you. i'm not familiar with one
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12:08 < sibiria> like, you want a "microblog" web app, to avoid having to deal with MD directly
12:08 < pr-asadi> Yeah. that would be nice.
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12:08 < pr-asadi> But Hugo and Jekyll is not my go-to
12:08 < sibiria> though they are both for this purpose (and more)
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12:09 < andrath> I don't do markdown, my generator makes html from roff pages
12:10 < andrath> that might not be that intuitive ;)
12:12 < sibiria> MD is *a bit* more intuitive. but all the same, it's somewhat tedious compared to a user-friendly UI editor
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12:20 < pr-asadi> andrath: Well. Your script that does the conversion(Roff to HTML). Does it have CSS in the final steps? 
12:21 < andrath> I have some base css things that get included with all the pages, it's simple templating 
12:21 < andrath> header/footer type stuff
12:22 < andrath> it's functionally similar to what hugo and jekyll does
12:22 < andrath> except way slower :D
12:23 < andrath> but for static pages that really does not matter a lot
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12:53 < itrsea> How do I talk to the developers of a watch command. I want to compare code to merge arguments safely in C.
12:55 < itrsea> The arguments are executed in a fork process, so input sanitation is necessary. I use getopt to parse a flag and the executable command.
12:59 < oldlaptop> If you just want to look at example code, the OpenBSD source tree is full of it.
12:59 < oldlaptop> src/bin, src/usr.bin, etc. have loads and loads of programs that use getopt
13:01 < itrsea> oldlaptop: will do
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13:05 < itrsea> excellent examples, such as `echo`.
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13:53 < RobbieAB> I would be surprised if watch was seeing that much active development still...
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14:25 < oldlaptop> RobbieAB: https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/watch/
14:30 < oldlaptop> (not, as far as I can tell, genetically related to procps' watch(1) at all)
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14:59 < RobbieAB> oldlaptop: Consider me surprised. :)
15:00 < RobbieAB> Though I don't seem to have that installed on my openbsd systems, it's not part of the base?
15:01 < RobbieAB> Not that it matters, I learnt a whole bunch of useful if simple shell and console trickery pseudo-implementing watch as a shell oneliner.
15:01 < phy1729> it's not linked into the build yet
15:01 < Bradipo> Yeah, it's not hard to make "watch" with just a while loop and a single echo for the clear screen.
15:02 < Bradipo> At any rate, I've never missed it.
15:02 < RobbieAB> while true ; do clear ; date ; $cmd ; sleep 2 ; done 
15:02 < Bradipo> watch is usually too "primitive" for what I want to do anyway.
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15:03 < RobbieAB> phy1729: Oooh... You mean it is a new thing coming to openbsd? :o
15:04 < phy1729> Yeah it's being worked on in tree, but it's not listed in usr.bin/Makefile yet, so it isn't being built with base
15:05 < RobbieAB> Ok, than a whole new implementation for openbsd would indeed be expected to be in active development. 
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15:12 < IcePic> RobbieAB: that while loop would suffer some if $cmd takes time, so you would want to run $cmd > /tmp/tmp.txt and have cat /tmp/tmp.txt right after clear.
15:13 < IcePic> otherwise clear removes relevant data, then 0-34589734957 seconds might lapse while you have no info, then it shows for 2s and repeat
15:14 < k0ga> IcePic: that would introduce a delay of 2 seconds in the display
15:14 < k0ga> (or more)
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15:15 < oldlaptop> A new old thing, so to speak, by the look of it.
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15:17 < IcePic> k0ga: yes, but you would have info in the meantime
15:17 < IcePic> if you watch netstat -s or something longish it might be valuable to have some time to find what you are looking for
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15:18 < Bradipo> I often don't clear in the while loop.
15:18 < Bradipo> I just let the data scroll and then if I need to see previous values I can scroll.
15:19 < oldlaptop> When that works it works.
15:19 < oldlaptop> Tends to break down a bit if you have a large volume of output
15:28 < Bradipo> Then tail can truncate it.
15:30 < oldlaptop> Unless you have a screenload each invocation because you need to see a screenload each invocation
15:30 < Bradipo> What's a "screenload"?
15:31 < systemdsucks> what you filter with lolcat?
15:32 < systemdsucks> I mean, make pretty
15:32 < systemdsucks> :p
15:34 < oldlaptop> A volume of output that fills the screen (or xterm, I guess), though I'd have thought that should be pretty clear.
15:35 < Bradipo> So use head instead of tail.
15:35 < Bradipo> It's not like someone is going to use watch(1) to watch top(1), I think.
15:36 < oldlaptop> `fooctl -s all` on the other hand...
15:36 < oldlaptop> (for many values of foo)
15:37 < oldlaptop> top is an exception that proves the rule: it has a built-in watch implementation
15:38 < Bradipo> Right, so I guess I'm not sure how: while :; do clear; $cmd | head -24; sleep 2; done
15:39 < Bradipo> Doesn't work.
15:39 < Bradipo> Or rather, why I would need watch(1) for this?
15:39 < Bradipo> Or: while :; do clear; sndioctl; sleep 2; done
15:40 < oldlaptop> Because it's irritating to work out all the corner cases in a shell one-liner and more convenient to have a nice screen-oriented thing that does the drudgery for you right, once
15:40 < Bradipo> Or: while :; do clear; ntpctl -s a; sleep 2; done
15:40 < Bradipo> I guess I'm not aware of these "corner cases". :-)
15:40 < oldlaptop> (this arguably does not describe a "need", but by that token why do you need vi instead of ex? or ex instead of ed?)
15:40 < Bradipo> Sure, options are nice to ahve.
15:41 < pardis> or ed instead of printf | dd
15:41 < oldlaptop> dd adds all kinds of fancy features ed cannot provide too! what's not to like?
15:43 < Emru> how should I set up my boot.conf and ttys to be able to login from both my monitor/keyboard and com0?
15:44 < oldlaptop> boot.conf shouldn't need to come in to it, at least not for logins
15:44 < Bradipo> Is com0 something other than a standard console?  Is it serial?
15:44 < oldlaptop> the system can bring up a getty/login on a console that the bootloader wasn't aware of just fine
15:46 < oldlaptop> just follwing part about /etc/ttys in the FAQ (https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#SerCon) should result in getting login prompts on the glass tty and on whatever serial port you want
15:46 < oldlaptop> *the part
15:46 < Emru> so, I have `tty00	"/usr/libexec/getty std.115200"	vt220 on secure` in /etc/ttys
15:46 < Emru> but I don't anything on serial
15:47 < Bradipo> Is it a USB serial device?  Or an actual serial device?
15:47 < Emru> actual serial
15:48 < oldlaptop> Make sure the stupid things are right :) (baud rates match, cable wiring (null modem?) is right, etc.)
15:48 < Bradipo> But this has nothing to do with boot.conf.
15:49 < Bradipo> How are you verifying that the serial is working/not?
15:50 < Emru> I'm using minicom and screen from other PC
15:50 < Emru> I've added `set tty com0` and `stty com0 115200` to /etc/boot.conf and now it works
15:53 < oldlaptop> Another of the 'stupid things' - if you fire up your terminal after the login message was written, you won't see it.
15:53 < oldlaptop> (until you hit Enter or something to provoke another login message)
15:53 < Emru> I know :)
15:54 < thrig> some folks have reported problems with high baud rates
15:55 < Emru> to sum up
15:55 < Emru> I can login on serial
15:55 < Emru> I can login on vga/keyboard
15:55 < Emru> I have dmesg on serial, but not on vga
15:56 < Emru> I have `set tty com0` and `stty com0 115200` in /etc/boot.conf
15:56 < Emru> so it works
15:56 < Emru> now, how do I make dmesg appear on both vga and serial?
15:56  * oldlaptop has done getty-on-serial without any boot.conf foolery - unless memory fails? the system is not running anymore - but would not have been using 115200 baud
15:56 < oldlaptop> I'm not sure you can do that.
15:57 < Emru> ok, so I'll leave it as-is
15:57 < oldlaptop> dmesg *should* be going to syslog, if that helps.
16:05 < mischief> and /var/run/dmesg.boot.
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16:13 < vortexx> oldlaptop: you can run getty on serial without it being the boot output console, no problem at all
16:13 < vortexx> I see FreeBSD's watch is quite a different beast from what's been discussed in here
16:14 < vortexx> https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=watch&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+14.3-RELEASE+and+Ports&arch=default&format=html
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18:39 < avemestr> I'm not sure who Mischa who posts a lot to dmesgd.nycbug.org is, but she sure tests out OpenBSD on a lot of devices: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=index&fts=mischa
18:40 < avemestr> Greatly appreciated, if you're in this chan!
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18:50 < IcePic> isnt it one of the obsda.ms admins?
18:50 < IcePic> but yeah, cool anyhow
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18:57 < avemestr> Sounds right, I recall the same name from their communications.
18:58 < supaman> yup, Misca is the admin of openbsd.amsterdam
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18:59 < supaman> https://exquisite.social/@mischa
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19:08 < IcePic> .oO( hypnotic commands: send lots of money to obsda.ms)
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19:12 < thrig> apropos hypno
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19:54 < rIMpossible> I have an internal ssd and an external hdd on an apu2. If I reboot, the external claims to be the rootdisk. Any idea to prevent this ?
19:59 < Bradipo> Change the boot order in the BIOS?
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20:02 < sibiria> is that possible with coreboot without recompiling it?
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20:10 < rIMpossible> I think I mis-explained sth wrong. Sorry for that, the internal and external are both softraid0. so using 4 devices
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20:12 < rIMpossible> after reboot sd0 is still internal root disk. without the external connected, the sr crypto container is at device sd1, with the external connected it is sd2 and sd1 is the unencrypted external
20:13 < rIMpossible> how can I prevent roaming?
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20:14 < pardis> why do you want to prevent roaming?
20:14 < pardis> duids were invented for a reason
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20:18 < rIMpossible> I would like it in the same order sd0/sd1 internal and sd2/sd3 external
20:18 < pardis> that doesn't answer why
20:18 < pardis> and to do that would require either modifying the kernel or manually attaching the external disk after boot
20:19 < rIMpossible> The latter I do now
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20:20 < rIMpossible> I use /etc/rc.local to unlock the crypto container of the external hdd (password file on the encryped container of the internal ssd)
20:22 < pardis> again, sounds like a job for duids
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20:23 < rIMpossible> so using the duid in the bioctl command instead of the /dev/sdxx ?
20:23 < pardis> yes
20:24 < rIMpossible> Al Hamdudila
20:24 < pardis> if you want to use bioctl in scripts, it's more robust to use duids even if you don't normally have roaming in case it happens one day
20:24 < rIMpossible> (thank you means )
20:24 < rIMpossible> pardis: I could not identify in the bioctl manpage
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21:29 < sonya> rIMpossible: check - $ doas bioctl -qv sd0 ; doas bioctl -qv `grep \/\  /etc/fstab | grep -v ^\# | awk -F\. '{print $1}' `  ... or so.. should match..
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22:08 < vortexx> sibiria: iirc the APUx have a bios menu where you can change the boot order to external usb etc if needed
22:09 < vortexx> doesn't require recompile of coreboot
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