--- Log opened Thu Jul 17 00:00:00 2025
--- Day changed Thu Jul 17 2025
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15:59 < ssm_> update on mime attachments for mail with mailx(1) (hint: you don't use mailx): got rfc2045 mime attachments working by using a handcrafted header+boundaries and sending with sendmail(8) instead of mailx(1). converters/base64 was used for attachment encoding, I'll write a script later to fenagle b64encode's output to be rfc2045 compliant since I like sticking to base.
16:02 < Bradipo> Are you using openssl base64?
16:05 < ssm_> grep -ir ssl /usr/src/usr.bin/uu[ed]*code/ says no
16:06 < Bradipo> I didn't ask if b64encode used openssl base64...
16:06 < Bradipo> I asked if *you* (aka ssm_) used it. :-)
16:08 < sibiria> you can chunk-split it with a perl oneliner as well
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16:09 < Bradipo> Well, both b64encode and openssl base64 seem to not need "chunking".
16:09 < sibiria> e.g.: echo -n 'this is a test sentence.' | perl -pe 's/(.{5})/$1\n/g'
16:09 < sibiria> no the chunking is for the base64-encoded output
16:09 < Bradipo> They already wrap at 76 chars.
16:09 < Bradipo> Maybe I misunderstand.
16:09 < sibiria> typo, 's/(.{5})/$1\r\n/g'
16:09 < sibiria> it wants crlf, not just lf
16:10 < ssm_> Bradipo: like openssl enc -base64? I guess that would remove the need to delete uuencode headers
16:10 < Bradipo> As in "openssl base64".
16:10 < Bradipo> I don't know if "openssl base64 -e" is an alias for "openssl enc -base64" or what.
16:10 < Bradipo> But I'm talking about "openssl base64 -e"
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16:10 < ssm_> manpage lacks a section for base64 so I don't know where it's supposed to be documented (or it's just enc -base64)
16:11 < Bradipo> Yes, you're right, man page is lacking.
16:11 < Bradipo> But it works. :-)
16:11 < Bradipo> I've been using it for years since I don't have to trim output like I do with b64encode
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16:13 < sibiria> the problem is that openssl uses just a linefeed to separate chunks. you need crlf
16:14 < Bradipo> No you don't.
16:14 < Bradipo> Local data is always LF only.  When your MTA transmits it, it will convert to CRLF.
16:14 < Bradipo> MIME messages stored on disk on Unix do not have CRLF.
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16:19 < ssm_> guess my sed 's/$/^M/' goes to waste
16:20 < Bradipo> Yes, it's not needed.
16:20 < Bradipo> And with respect to RFC 2045, it doesn't matter anyway as it states: "All line breaks or other characters not found in Table 1 must be ignored by decoding software."
16:21 < Bradipo> And only "line breaks, and other white space" are considered non-errors.
16:21 < Bradipo> So presumably you could have mixed line-endings and base64 should still decode properly.
16:22 < Bradipo> At any rate, base64 encoded data stored on disk in a MIME message on Unix will only have LF.
16:26 < sibiria> he's submitting it to an MTA for relay. he's the MUA, not the MTA or MDA
16:27 < Bradipo> Right, and the MUA isn't responsible for converting LF to CRLF is it?
16:28 < Bradipo> In all my years sending email via /usr/sbin/sendmail, I've never once bothered to convert LF to CRLF.
16:28 < sibiria> SMTP mandates CRLF-terminated lines, of no more than 1000 bytes incl. the termination, and mandates that the body keeps CRLF together, never separate
16:29 < sibiria> i don't know if olde sendmail (or opensmtpd's smtpctl) goes through that conversion on its own. but SMTP specs themselves are very clear about what is required
16:30 < Bradipo> Yes, certainly.
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16:31 < sibiria> the MDA should convert CRLF to LF before delivering it to the user's maildrop. but that's the MDA end, not the submission end where ssm_'s application is
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16:31 < Bradipo> If he's submitting via SMTP, then there may be an argument that *ALL* data should be converted from LF to CRLF.
16:31 < Bradipo> But this applies to *ALL* data, not just RFC 2045 MIME data.
16:31 < sibiria> it must be CRLF, those are the rules :)
16:32 < sibiria> AND WE CAN'T LET GO OF THE BECAUSE THE DOWNFALL OF SOCIETY BEGINS WITH THE INDIVIDUAL
16:32 < Bradipo> Right, but when calling /usr/sbin/sendmail it isn't SMTP.
16:33 < Bradipo> Does mailx convert LF to CRLF when submitting email?
16:34 < ssm_> is ssh over wg(4) a good or bad idea? means I don't have ssh over on any port. actually I can just put every non-public-facing service over wg and shrink my firewall and attack surface to wg(4) alone
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16:34 < Bradipo> In theory, protocolX over wg(4) should be good, right?
16:34 < sibiria> i don't know. in the past when i "handcrafted" submissions for PHP and its use of old sendmail, i always stuck to the RFC and handed out a properly CRLF'd submission, because i kept seeing various e-mail services misinterpreting my mails
16:35 < Bradipo> Sounds like you had a bad MTA then. :-)
16:35 < ssm_> s/over/open/2
16:35 < Bradipo> The MTA should have been doing LF to CRLF during transmission.
16:35 < sibiria> it was classic sendmail, on openbsd
16:36 < oldlaptop> ssm_: Maybe you don't like having to encrypt the data twice, I guess.
16:36 < sibiria> assuredly it did what it was supposed to do and no more
16:36 < oldlaptop> (It's not very expensive these days.)
16:36 < sibiria> ssm_: i would say it's neither good nor bad in itself
16:36 < ssm_> evolution of networking, only unencrypted traffic like nfs over encrypted tunnels
16:37 < ssm_> how make ssh unsecure
16:37 < Bradipo> Well, it's possible I'm mistaken.  Maybe MTA don't bother with conversion of LF to CRLF and just transmit the data directly from disk to network which would indeed put the onus on the MUA.
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16:37 < sibiria> and i get the point of absolutely not exposing ssh on any port, by having WG and its "keep mum" approach in front
16:37 < sibiria> so why not
16:38 < Bradipo> I have SSH on public IP/port.  It gets hammered with login attempts.
16:38 < Bradipo> And unless OpenSSH ends up with some kind of remote exploit against it, I don't really worry about it.
16:38 < sibiria> i run public-facing too. but i always moved mine off port 22 to keep the log noise down
16:39 < sibiria> i trust its security fully, i always keep an eye on the security bulletins
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16:40 < oldlaptop> Fair to say it gets more real-life stress testing than wireguard, I would think
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16:40 < sibiria> absolutely one of the world's most vetted pieces of software
16:40 < oldlaptop> (But if you need both you need both, and both is always worse than one...)
16:40 < sibiria> few things get as much scrunity
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16:40 < Bradipo> Right, as I said before, wrapping SSH in wg isn't going to make SSH worse.
16:41 < oldlaptop> It makes it precisely as bad as wireguard.
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16:41 < oldlaptop> (Maybe not precisely. Details, details.)
16:42 < RobbieAB> Not sure why wrapping SSH in wireguard makes it as bad as wireguard.
16:42 < oldlaptop> Bad way to phrase it.
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16:42 < Bradipo> I think what he meant to say is that at worst, it's as bad as having no wireguard at all.
16:43 < RobbieAB> Given the choice between exposing a wireguard OR sshd, I would probably choose to expose sshd, maybe, depending on the platform.
16:43 < Bradipo> But the choice is expose SSH vs expose SSH via WG.
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16:43 < RobbieAB> Bradipo: Which requires the attacker to successfully negotiate with WG to get at SSH
16:43 < oldlaptop> RobbieAB: I am inclined to agree.
16:43 < Bradipo> In the worst case, it's just administrative overhead with now security implications.
16:44 < Bradipo> s/now/no/
16:44 < oldlaptop> Wireguard is attack surface regardless of whether ssh is running behind it.
16:44 < RobbieAB> And I can see an argument for a relatively clean WG instance being more secure than SSH on at least some linux.
16:44 < sibiria> on the absolute surface of things i would trust WG more than sshd. its authentication procedure is incredibly tiny compared to the complex handshake etc. of ssh
16:44 < oldlaptop> Yes. It's just not as battle-proven (so to speak)
16:45 < oldlaptop> Similar issue with filesystems. Lots of options out there with better properties on paper than ffs, but really none have been in production since the 1980s.
16:45 < RobbieAB> What was that delightful ssh CVE on systemd linux caused by a compromise of a completely unrelated lib?
16:46 < oldlaptop> (Another questionable phrasing... oh well.)
16:46 < sibiria> and i really like that it stays stealthy by not responding unless the packet is authentic. but it is one more ingredient in the soup, may cost more than it tastes
16:47 < oldlaptop> RobbieAB: The xz-utils fiasco was ultimately targeted at ssh (the affected library wound up in its address space at dynamic-link time)
16:47 < sibiria> RobbieAB: the liblzma (xz-utils) exploit
16:47 < RobbieAB> That is the one... Is WG on linux linked through systemd quite the same way?
16:48 < Bradipo> Didn't that basically attempt to inject a backdoor key that could be used by those holding the bogus private key?
16:48 < sibiria> yes
16:49 < RobbieAB> Bradipo: Sure, my point is more that WG vs SSH really can't ignore platform factors. openssh on openbsd? Yes, I would have more confidence in openssh due to length of history.
16:49 < Bradipo> Sure, but the question wasn't SSH vs WG, it was SSH vs WG+SSH.
16:49 < Bradipo> WG wouldn't even provide login to a host.
16:50 < RobbieAB> WG can't reduce the security posture, short of a fairly serious bug, AIUI.
16:50 < Bradipo> Though I suppose one might find a backdoor that allows a buffer overrun or something.
16:50 < RobbieAB> (Ignoring false confidence factors)
16:50 < Bradipo> Right.
16:51  * RobbieAB uses WG and SSH 
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17:31 < notdonk> yo
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18:20 < oldlaptop> Wireguard runs in-kernel, which sshd does not. Hard to balance that, maybe.
18:20 < oldlaptop> More code with less privilege or less code with more privilege?
18:23 < sibiria> if there's an exploit in there mr matt "strangely anonymous" dunwoodie sure placed it in the right spot
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18:25 < sibiria> whenever i come to think of his work with wg in the openbsd kernel i also think of the xz-utils infiltrator "jia tan"
18:26 < sibiria> dunwoodie has practically zero internet presence or history up until just a year or two before wireguard+openbsd. yet he has substantial knowledge on kernel and driver development
18:26 < Bradipo> So who is qualified to actually analyze the code?
18:27 < phy1729> The people who already did
18:27 < sibiria> the core developers i suppose?
18:31 < zx2c4> Matt came to Paris and we hung out and worked on this together. He's def a real person (and a great guy!)
18:31 < sibiria> definitely a real human, yes
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19:15 < fro> does he have zero internet presence before then?
19:20 < xs> I suddenly have to deal with a ssh behaviour I don't understand. 
19:20 < xs> https://bpa.st/raw/Z2EQ
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19:20 < xs> the first argument of the first command is truncated
19:20 < xs> after the first ';' set -x even switch back to +x
19:21 < xs> does anyone already had this strange issue ? any ideas / tests ?
19:21 < phy1729> Remember you have to double quote ssh commands
19:21 < xs> okay let's try it
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19:22 < phy1729> By double quote I mean quote twice, because your local shell does an expansion and so does the remote shell. For anything non-trivial, shove it into a file and run the script.
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19:24 < phy1729> So you ran the moral equivilant of  sh -xc : aaa; echo bbb   which tells sh to run : with aaa as argv[0]
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19:24 < Matt|home> in the base installation is a pgp key tool included? if not which package am i using to generate them?
19:25 < Matt|home> pgp generator**
19:26 < Bradipo> No, there is no PGP in base.
19:26 < Bradipo> Though, I suppose you could approximate it using openssl, but you wouldn't be able to interoperate with others unless you know exactly what PGP outputs.
19:26 < xs> phy1729: I see but I don't get why I had this working before
19:27 < Matt|home> aaaack.. thanks Bradipo. i was hoping to avoid an internet connection on this but i guess i have to here. no big deal. what's the default pgp tool, gpg ?
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19:28 < Matt|home> i don't see anything on the man pages for either 'pgp' or 'gpg' so i assume it has a different name
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19:29 < Bradipo> Matt|home: If you want GPG you have to install it from packages.
19:29 < Matt|home> right, what package name am i installing?
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19:29 < ivdsangen> gnupg is what it is called
19:29 < Bradipo> Probably just gnupg.
19:29 < Matt|home> thanks appreciate it <3
19:30 < Bradipo> xs: What did you expect your command to produce?
19:31 < xs> + : aaa\n+ echo bbb\nbbb
19:33 < Bradipo> Did you try the double-quoting as suggested by phy1729?
19:34 < Matt|home> mh. is it possible to download the binary package im looking for and copying it to my openbsd machine, or would i really be just better off installing it the conventional way? 
19:35 < Bradipo> If you download it first then you have to make pkg_add think that your local machine is a trusted install location I think.
19:36 < Matt|home> bah. alright. conventional install it is for now
19:36 < Matt|home> ty
19:36 < xs> Bradipo, phy1729 yeah, ssh root@test-openbsd-77 "sh -xc ': aaa; echo bbb'" this works
19:36 < Bradipo> Interesting, that's not quite how I did it...
19:37 < Bradipo> I did: ssh remote sh -xc "': aaa; echo bbb'"
19:37 < xs> I wonder why my script was working with my previous single double quotes
19:39 < Bradipo> It's unfortunate that there isn't a "clean" SSH interface for this (e.g. a way to pass arguments), but basically, the exec channel is just a string.
19:39 < xs> Bradipo: with your quoting I see the bbb output before the shell -x show + echo bbb https://bpa.st/raw/6FDA
19:39 < Bradipo> So one still has to deal with quoting stuff.
19:40 < xs> yeaah
19:40 < Bradipo> xs: It's the same for me either way.
19:40 < xs> strange
19:40 < Bradipo> I see bbb before the debug data.
19:40 < Matt|home> off-topic , if anyone's got some free time i had some questions about encryption so i guess pm? thanks again for your help brad o/
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19:41 < Bradipo> Honestly, I don't know why encryption would be off-topic for OpenBSD, especially if you're planning on using OpenBSD for encrypting stuff.
19:41 < Bradipo> But yeah, I guess there is #openbsd-social...
19:41 < Matt|home> lol appreciate it
19:42 < sibiria> fro: as far as popular search engines, mailing list archives, etc. go he doesn't seem to exist prior to 2018, save for the detail of his domain name which was registered about a year earlier
19:43 < Bradipo> xs: By the way, your original command is the equivalent of: ssh remote sh -xc : aaa\; echo bbb
19:44 < Bradipo> xs: As a demonstration, try: ssh remote sh -xc : aaa\; echo '$SSH_CONNECTION'
19:44 < Matt|home> sigh.. this is my fault but looks like the fastest solution is literally to just re-install the OS and do the auto configuration then.. fine. lesson learned
19:44 < Bradipo> Then contrast with: ssh remote sh -xc : aaa; echo '$SSH_CONNECTION'
19:45 < Bradipo> Matt|home: Run out of disk space? :-)
19:45 < Matt|home> no, im getting "init firmware not detected" or some kind of error when trying to configure my card
19:45 < xs> Bradipo: yeah I understand the issue now, thanks you folks 
19:45 < Matt|home> i noticed that error during nistall when i skipped over configuring internet
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19:46 < Matt|home> this is just a base system install so i really don't care, but i'll have to re-read a bunch of stuff, been a while since i used any nix system
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19:46 < xs> I was naively doing this https://got.inda.re/?action=blob&commit=09bfe2aaa34fd23af30fbbf69fdba24c26f86490&file=r7&folder=&path=r7.git#line484
19:47 < Bradipo> Matt|home: So you're saying that the OpenBSD currently has no internet?
19:48 < Matt|home> yeah i skipped over the wifi configuration (it's an e-waste laptop) during install, i wanted this to be completely disconnected so avoid any possible contamination but it's unavoidable here
19:48 < Bradipo> Why is it unavoidable?
19:48 < Bradipo> You can use USB to transfer files.
19:50 < Matt|home> it's been a while, if it takes me several hours to figure out how to transfer binary packages and set them up without internet it'll have to wait til this weekend
19:50 < Bradipo> Well, you have internet now...
19:50 < Matt|home> im on a different computer
19:51 < Bradipo> Basically you download the packages (and their dependencies) and then use pkg_add to install them.
19:51 < f6k> hello :)
19:51 < Matt|home> alright. let's try that then
19:51 < Bradipo> But the trick is in discovering all the dependencies and pre-fetching them.
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19:51 < f6k> any news for WiFi BCM43224 support on openbsd?
19:51 < Bradipo> If you want gnupg, you'll need more than just gnupg... you'll need all of it's dependencies.
19:51 < Matt|home> right.. so it'll be faster if i just do it over the internet from the bsd computer
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19:55 < oldlaptop> Matt|home: You might find https://man.openbsd.org/pkg_add.1#PKG_CACHE interesting, perhaps along with https://man.openbsd.org/pkg_add.1#installed
19:56 < oldlaptop> If you're missing firmware (for some wifi device?), reinstallation is not going to help, you need the firmware.
19:56 < Matt|home> hm. "failed to load init firmware" couldn't load blah blah, looks like i need the firmware yeah
19:56 < Matt|home> guess i'll have to do it the hard way
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19:57 < oldlaptop> If you can't get it a network connection by other means (ethernet?), you can copy the appropriate firmware package (the entire firmware archive is not impractically large) to it out of band and invoke fw_update on that.
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19:58 < Matt|home> what's the easiest most straightforward option for me right now? the /only/ thing i need for this computer is for it to have gnupg so i can generate keys 
19:58 < Matt|home> i don't need anything else, so what am i doing
19:59 < Bradipo> xs: I wonder about this line 484 in the script your reference.
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19:59 < Bradipo> Matt|home: You need to find all the dependencies for gnupg and download it and them.
19:59 < Matt|home> alright
19:59 < Bradipo> If you have the OpenBSD system available right now, it might be faster to reinstall, but if it's at a remote location, then you might just download the stuff you need.
20:00 < Bradipo> You could download the installer iso... it probably has gnupg already.
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20:00 < oldlaptop> (The links I pasted would be one way to "find the dependencies".)
20:00 < oldlaptop> The installer won't have anything from any package at all.
20:00 < Bradipo> install77.iso might though.
20:00 < Matt|home> i've got it right here along with the installer media, and i'll go ahead and locate all the dependencies and see if it'll take longer to do it manually than download the wifi firmware 
20:00 < Bradipo> That's what I meant.
20:00 < oldlaptop> (It has signify(1) to verify signatures on OpenBSD installation sets.)
20:01 < oldlaptop> install77.iso will have bsd.rd and the installation sets, instead of just bsd.rd.
20:01 < Bradipo> install7.ios is a whopping 746M, so it has much more than base in it.
20:01 < Matt|home> let me check
20:01 < Matt|home> i do indeed have the amd64 install77.img on a flash drive, that was used to install openbsd
20:02 < Bradipo> Oh well, base77.tgz is 483M... wow.
20:02 < Bradipo> Maybe packages are no longer included... they were at one point. :-)
20:02 < oldlaptop> Not in installXX.iso, ever, not so far as I know.
20:02 < Bradipo> Maybe not.  Maybe I'm thinking of the original CDs.
20:02 < Matt|home> alright, gnupg requires perl and perl requires half a dozen hundred packages so looks like i get to troubleshoot the wifi firmware issue.
20:02 < oldlaptop> The physical CDs that were once sold included a few packages
20:03 < oldlaptop> perl is in base.
20:03 < Bradipo> Well, perl is already part of base, not a package.
20:03 < oldlaptop> I don't think there's even a newer version available as a package.
20:04 < Matt|home> yeah it's gonna take too long to do this manually, i need the package manager to handle it otherwise im gonna get a headache :p alright lemme see
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20:04 < oldlaptop> ...which is why <oldlaptop> Matt|home: You might find https://man.openbsd.org/pkg_add.1#PKG_CACHE interesting, perhaps along with https://man.openbsd.org/pkg_add.1#installed
20:05 < Matt|home> i have those links open thank you
20:05 < Matt|home> im reading im reading, im just slow
20:05 < Bradipo> What firmware do you need?  You could install that first and then just use pkg_add on the network.
20:05 < oldlaptop> (You would want another OpenBSD system that is online, to resolve the dependencies and download everything.)
20:06 < oldlaptop> I would think that'd be easier. (Or just plug it in the one time.)
20:06 < Matt|home> "could not read firmware iwm-7265-17 (error 2)" "failed to load init firmware" lessee
20:07 < Matt|home> yeah this is an e-waste piece of shit laptop, wifi only no ethernet
20:07 < Bradipo> Might be a boon if you're truly trying to be air gapped with it. :-)
20:08 < sibiria> but if it has a USB port, you can install the firmware from USB memory...
20:08 < Bradipo> Hard to exploit a network that doesn't even work.
20:08 < Matt|home> well the #1 thing i wanted this to do was pgp so.. the question is what will take less time, doing it oldlaptop's way or setting up the wifi..
20:09 < Matt|home> "These firmware files are not free because Intel refuses to grant distribution rights without contractual obligations. As a result, even though OpenBSD includes the driver, the firmware files cannot be included and users have to download these files on their own." yep
20:09 < Bradipo> Matt|home: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1386425
20:09 < Bradipo> That's the package signature for gnupg.  That might help in getting the additional dependencies.
20:09 < Matt|home> oh thank you
20:10 < Bradipo> Oh, that's from 7.6 by the way, on amd64.  Not sure if it's the same for 7.7 and whatever architecture you're on.
20:10 < Matt|home> im on amd64 yeah
20:12 < xs> Bradipo: the test suite passes again with "sh -xc 'commands; commands'"
20:14 < Matt|home> lol.. ahhhh what a pain what a pain what a pain computers are
20:15 < Bradipo> xs: But I wonder about that line 484 that you showed...
20:15 < Bradipo> Matt|home: Yes, computers can be painful, especially if you want them for useful things. :-)
20:16 < Bradipo> xs: Or is that line 484 the code in question that you're trying to correct?
20:16 < xs> Bradipo: there were actually to ssh calls that was suddenly causing issues with ssh "$target" sh -xc 'command1; command2'
20:16 < xs> Bradipo: yes
20:16 < Bradipo> Ahh, I see.  I thought this was an example that you had modeled your stuff after.
20:17 < Bradipo> In which case I was going to say, this model is wrong.
20:17 < Bradipo> Well, except it *does* work.
20:18 < xs> yeah ok so you mean ssh "$target" sh -xc 'command1; command2' was wrong
20:18 < Bradipo> Well, no, it's not *wrong* per se.
20:19 < Bradipo> It does produce the desired outcome, right?
20:19 < Bradipo> Except of course for the behavior of -x
20:20 < xs> Bradipo: no, I don't understand why it did not work while it worked for weeks ( actually have to change train, brb )
20:20 < Bradipo> The question to ask is... why does it not produce the desired Xtrace output when done as: ssh remote sh -xc 'command 1; command2'
20:20 < Bradipo> Well, the line you showed 484 does not use -x
20:20 < Bradipo> So presumably it would have been *working* just fine.
20:21 < Bradipo> Both "umask 027" *and* "mkdir -p /tmp/r7" will have been run, right?
20:23 < Matt|home> hm. usb drive on sda , trying to format it, "device busy" it's not even mounted. im pretty sure it's /dev/sda1 ..
20:23 < Matt|home> screw it i'll format it on windows
20:24 < oldlaptop> There's no such thing as "/dev/sda1".
20:24 < oldlaptop> (Unless somebody created a regular file by that name trying to write images to USB sticks or something.)
20:25 < Bradipo> Yeah, you can format on windows then mount msdos on OpenBSD.
20:25 < Matt|home> fat32 is fine right?
20:25 < sibiria> yes
20:25 < Matt|home> ty.
20:26 < oldlaptop> *probably* what you're hoping to get will be behind the node sd1i ("SCSI" disk 1, partition i - MBR partitions generally start at i for hysterical raisins)
20:26 < Bradipo> xs: For example, observe the output of: ssh remote sh -n -c 'echo 1; echo 2'
20:28 < Bradipo> Or even better: ssh remote sh -n -c "echo $(hostname); hostname"
20:29 < Bradipo> Oh hmm, not so better, sorry.
20:29 < xs> Bradipo: yeah both the umask and the mkdri were working with ssh "$target" sh -c 'umask 027; mkdir -p /tmp/r7', I had that dir with correct permissions
20:30 < Bradipo> Yes, so the question in my mind is what is going on...
20:30 < Bradipo> Something is clearly starting 2 shells or something.
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20:31 < xs> https://bpa.st/raw/AZTA wut
20:32 < Matt|home> hm. disklabel sd2 <-- device not configtured. i just formatted it to fat32 and i confirmed it's sd2
20:32 < oldlaptop> Is this at the installer's prompt?
20:32 < Bradipo> xs: Haha, yes.
20:32 < oldlaptop> (shell, rather)
20:32 < xs> doing this is a workaround lol https://bpa.st/raw/QT3Q
20:33 < Bradipo> Well, sure that's one way.
20:33 < Bradipo> The double-quote is another.
20:33 < Bradipo> But basically, with your workaround, argv[0] is apparently : ?
20:33 < xs> yeah it seems
20:34 < Bradipo> Well, no...
20:34 < xs> ah sh is 
20:35 < xs> I think I will opt for the double quoting 
20:35 < Bradipo> Try: ssh test-openbsd-77 sh -n -c 'hostname; hostname; hostname'
20:35 < Bradipo> How many hostnames will it print?
20:36 < Bradipo> Does ssh support multi-line exec commands?
20:36 < xs> Bradipo: two hostnames
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20:36 < Bradipo> Why not 3?  Why was the first hostname suppressed?
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20:37 < xs> I would have expected 0 because of -n
20:37 < Bradipo> Right, but I think in this case, what's happening is that SSH supports multi-line exec commands.
20:37 -!- daugaard [~daugaard@user/daugaard] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:37 < Bradipo> Observe: ssh test-openbsd-77 sh -c hostname\; sh -c hostname
20:38 < Bradipo> And when it hits the end of the first command, it execs another with a new shell.
20:38 < xs> two hostname (the right one)
20:38 < xs> yeah
20:38 < xs> seems to be the multi-line
20:39 < xs> this was surprising
20:39 < Bradipo> Then try: ssh test-openbsd-77 sh -c hostname\; sh -c hostname\; sh -c 'echo\ 3'
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20:39 < Bradipo> Without the escape, the echo is blank.
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20:40 < xs> https://bpa.st/raw/Z2AQ sorry for the last line
20:40 < Bradipo> That's because when it gets sent to the remote system, the space is lost.  What ends up being exec'd is actually: sh -c 'echo' 3
20:40 < Bradipo> So apparently sh doesn't complain about extra arguments that follow the -c argument.
20:41 < Bradipo> The SYNOPSIS says: sh [-abCefhimnuvx] [-o option] [-c string | -s | file]
20:41 < Bradipo> So given that we've given -c string, I would expect the rest of the arguments to result in an error of some kind...
20:41 < Bradipo> Instead, they appear to just be ignored.
20:42 < xs> seems to be it yes
20:42 < Matt|home> bah.. sorry to keep bugging, im having a hard time mounting my flash drive.. i've formatted it to fat32, and after plugging it in with sysctl hw.disknames i see sd2: after sd0,sd1 with nothing after it. it's at.. scsi bus4 so it showed up when i plugged it in 
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20:42 < Matt|home> dmsg shows me.. sd2 is the drive
20:42 < Matt|home> "detached"
20:43 < Bradipo> Matt|home: What about: sysctl hw.disknames
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20:43 < Matt|home>  /dev/rsd2c <-- this is what i need to mount?
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20:43 < Bradipo> No.
20:43 < Bradipo> Usually msdos shows up as the 'i' partition.
20:43 < Bradipo> So you would want to mount sd2i
20:44 < Bradipo> But if it doesn't show up in sysctl hw.disknames... then it's not working.
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20:44 < Matt|home> sysctl hw.disknames shows me sd0:hexnumber, sd1:hexnumber, sd2: blank
20:45 < Matt|home> i say "hex number" but it's just the label, there's no label after sd2
20:46 < Matt|home> alright i successfully mounted it. and of course my file isn't there, lol.. ahhhh computers. i'll figure this out later
20:47 < Bradipo> You won't have a disk UID on your USB drive unless you add one with disklabel.
20:47 < Bradipo> So you won't see the sd2:DUID
20:48 < Matt|home> alright. alright. last thing im gonna try. im gonna format this to FAT32 on openbsd, and see if windows recognizes it. 
20:48 < Bradipo> Well, if you're able to successfully mount it, you should be fine.
20:48 < Bradipo> Try copying a file to the USB drive *from* OpenBSD, then mount in Windows and see if the file is available in Windows.
20:48 < Matt|home> the problem is after formatting it on windows, the old data is taking up space and isn't visible. so instead of 32 gigs im only able to see 1 gig
20:48 < Matt|home> yeah. im just gonna wipe the drive in open
20:49 < Matt|home> newfs_msdos -F 32 /dev/sd1i <-- this should be the correct command
20:49 < Bradipo> The old data shouldn't be relevant if you formatted.
20:49 < Matt|home> sd2i *
20:49 < Bradipo> Well, man page says you want raw device.
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20:50 < Bradipo> https://man.openbsd.org/newfs_msdos
20:50 < Bradipo> You could use a "relative path" instead like sd2i
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20:50 < Bradipo> Then it will automatically use the raw device for you.
20:50 < Matt|home> hm. yeah that's what im doing.
20:52 < Matt|home> haaaaah... mf**** .. i can see the file i transfered in windows, but when i mount it in open, it's showing me the data from the previous format. im gonna lose it..
20:52 < xs> Bradipo: I will continue to work with the double quoting for now, ( i still don't understand why this was working before but whatever, sometimes things are a mystery), by the way thanks so much for your investigation !
20:52 < Matt|home> i'll figrure this out myself, thanks again all
20:52 < Bradipo> xs: Well, what's your definition of "working"?
20:52 < Bradipo> It does work as you have it on line 484!
20:53 < xs> haha, it appeared to be working at least and was passing a comprehensive test suite
20:53 < Bradipo> Oh, I see...
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20:54 < Bradipo> Setting the mask to 027 wouldn't have any bearing on the second command that runs, mkdir!
20:54 < Bradipo> So that's what was not working.  You got the wrong permissions on the file, yeah?
20:55 < xs> the problem was I was getting umask 027 outputting 022 because the 027 arg was missing, with ssh "$target" sh -c 'umask 027; umask' ---> shows 2 times 022
20:55 < Bradipo> Yep.
20:55 < Bradipo> All coming together now.
20:56 < Bradipo> You could have done: sh -c 'umask\ 027\;\ umask'
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20:56 < Bradipo> So in this case, the umask was not being set properly and therefore mkdir would have not created the directory with the right permissions.
20:57 < Bradipo> So, let me ask this...
20:57 < Bradipo> Why are you using sh -c ?
20:57 < Bradipo> Why not just call: ssh remote 'umask 027; umask'
20:58 < xs> I need to guarentee we have a POSIX sh
20:58 < Bradipo> Ahh.
20:58 < xs> drwxr-x---   5 root wheel 11 Jun 21 00:25 r7
20:58 < xs> this was with linke 484
20:58 < Bradipo> Ok, so you're trying to force the shell, got it.
20:58 < Bradipo> If you weren't doing that, it works as expected. :-)
20:59 < xs> yeah
20:59 < xs> this is a multiplatform configuration management framework
20:59 < Bradipo> e.g. ssh remote 'umask 027; mkdir -p /tmp/r7'
20:59 < Bradipo> That would have worked as expected with respect to string parsing, but not perhaps if you need a certain shell.
21:00 < xs> yeah maybe the ssh user is having some fancy shell
21:00 < thrig> probably safer to copy a script over, then run that
21:01 < xs> thrig: that's right, I naively relied on inline sh -c because I always did like so 
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21:05 < Bradipo> I suppose you could defend against this with a fail fast kind of approach.
21:06 < Bradipo> e.g. ssh remote exec sh -c 'hostname; hostname'
21:07 < Bradipo> Or in your case: ssh remote exec sh -c 'umask 027; mkdir -p /tmp/r7'
21:07 < Bradipo> In this case your test would fail because /tmp/r7 would *not* even exist.
21:08 < thrig> mmm Guarded Commands
21:09 < Bradipo> Or that, yes.
21:11 < xs> removed /tmp/r7 on test-openbsd-77; used the exec form, now prints 022 at various places because 027 isn't again passed to umask but the mkdir works
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21:13 < xs> I shoud implement an internal test that verify the /tmp/r7 permissions
21:13 < Bradipo> mkdir will work *if* properly quoted, but will not otherwise.
21:13 < Bradipo> For example: ssh remote exec sh -c 'umask 027; mkdir /tmp/r7' would *NOT* execute mkdir
21:13 < Bradipo> Because it's not properly quoted.
21:16 < xs> Bradipo: Seems it created it https://bpa.st/raw/E7
21:18 < xs> Arriving home town by train, now I'll walk and investigate at $HOME
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23:11 < c0co> or alternatively could anyone please point me in the direction of a good resource for diagnosing such issues?
23:14 < thrig> wsconsctl | grep disable
23:16 < c0co> the device is enabled
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23:25 < thrig> boot from a linux usb and see if it works there? that would help rule out hw vs sw issue
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23:31 < c0co> yeah the device itself works
23:31 < c0co> already verified
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23:42 < tvtoon> which issues?
23:42 < tvtoon> keyboard issues?
23:44 < c0co> touchpad on an ex-chromebook Dell Latitude 7400
23:46 < tvtoon> on xenocara I suppose
23:46 < c0co> I presume so
23:47 < c0co> honestly not sure. new to OpenBSD and learning. Just running xenomd as per install option to enable by default
23:49 < tvtoon> so you need to check which driver is used, you need to read the logs first to check anything
23:52 < thrig> also get all the dell bios updates
23:55 < c0co> not feasible when it's coreboot (ex chromebook)
23:55 < c0co> Just looking through dmesg I do see `"ELAN0000" at acpi0 not configured` 
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 18 00:00:27 2025