--- Log opened Sun Jul 20 00:00:27 2025
--- Day changed Sun Jul 20 2025
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00:08 < puffybuf> I can rebuild the ports for the packages I need. I'm running unstable with snapshot packages to test wayland stuff
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03:45 < deimosBSD> does anyone run caddy on openbsd? I haven't yet converted to httpd/relayd. if i run /usr/local/bin/caddy run --config /etc/caddy/Caddyfile, it works fine, gets tls certs, serves content/redirects as expected. rcctl start caddy fails, rcctl -d start caddy says listen tcp :443: bind: address already in use. there is nothing on *:443 at all according to netstat -nlp tcp
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08:48 < anthk_> hello there
08:49 < anthk_> on the cmixer port, I'd like to suggest that these lines change like this (I didn't create a diff yet)
08:49 < anthk_>  $self->{wid}{"$dir.$wid.mute"}->set_binding( sub {$self->update_vol(0.05, $dir,$wid) }, ("l", 
08:49 < anthk_> KEY_RIGHT()));
08:49 < anthk_>       $self->{wid}{"$dir.$wid.mute"}->set_binding( sub {$self->update_vol(-0.05, $dir,$wid) }, ("h",
08:49 < anthk_>  KEY_LEFT()));
08:50 < anthk_> that's it, a 10% step was too huge sometimes
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12:08 < anthk_> will openbsd get gcc1 with libgccjit? yes, I will use it for Emacs and native compilation
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13:08 < whiteman809> how can i upgrade only the specific software sets when i do sysupgrade?
13:09 < whiteman809> i don't want to install xenocara etc. on server
13:10 < vortexx> whiteman809: you can't, the devs discourage this type of behaviour and complaining will eventually lead to one big baseXX.tgz set
13:10 < vortexx> you have to upgrade manually via bsd.rd or remote upgrade as per instructions in the faq if you want to stick to what you evaluate to be your needs
13:11 < vortexx> please be aware the xenocara sets provide things like fontconfig that some packages require
13:11 < whiteman809> so on server do you recommend to install fonts, xenocara etc. even if i don't need them and let sysupgrade do its job?
13:11 < vortexx> yes
13:11 < whiteman809> thanks
13:11 < vortexx> all they do is take up ~350Mb on disk in their own partition
13:11 < whiteman809> as i read the main security issue is running daemons, not installed software
13:11 < vortexx> they won't get in the way
13:12 < vortexx> yes
13:20 < kuzdra> whiteman809: as an example: something like rrdtool on a server will need font files and fontconfig to render graphs even if you don't directly display them on that machine
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13:48 < humm> anthk_: nah, no gcc1 in OpenBSD
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16:24 < vortexx> anthk_: gcc1 was probably in the first releases but binary compatibility has been broken multiple times since then
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16:33 < anthk_> gcc11
16:35 < vortexx> anthk_: gcc11 is in ports
16:35 < vortexx> well, it's a package, too, of course
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16:37 < vortexx> dunno about libgccjit, grep -R jit /usr/ports/lang/gcc/11/ returns nothing
16:38 < jca> it's not enabled
16:39 < vortexx> no traces of questions about it on misc@ from what I see on marc.info
16:39 < vortexx> going to check ports@
16:40 < jca> anthk_: I personnally doubt that we're going to enable emacs native modules compilation in the OpenBSD port.
16:41 < jca> whether we're stuck with gcc/8 (-current) or gcc/11 (not possible today)
16:41 < vortexx> just found your 2023 email about that jca 
16:41 < jca> anthk_: ofc you're free to experiment on your own machine
16:41 < vortexx> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=169928398324845&w=2 thread here
16:47 < oldlaptop> whiteman809: Another class of security vulnerability to consider (although it likely only starts to matter once the attacker has already substantially breached the system) is the presence of setuid or setgid binaries accessible to the attacker.
16:47 < oldlaptop> It's possible for a setuid/setgid binary to have bugs that allow it to do things it's not supposed to.
16:48 < oldlaptop> (The X server itself once had precisely this kind of bug, and as a consequence had its setuid bit taken away on OpenBSD.)
16:50 < oldlaptop> I don't think xbase installs *any* setuid/setgid binaries these days, so your idea ("the main security issue is running daemons, not installed software") still happens to hold true for OpenBSD's installation sets - but it is still good to bear in mind if you're installing packages (or using other OSes that still give setuid to things like their equivalents of the games set - openbsd took setuid away from the games some years ago too, not IIRC in 
16:50 < oldlaptop> response to any known bug, just on general principle)
16:52 < oldlaptop> The usual threat is that an attacker who already has local shell access as an unprivleged user can use the setuid binary for privilege escalation.
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16:55 < oldlaptop> (xbase still includes xlock setgid auth, and xterm setgid utmp, by the look of it - neither of those sound very serious to me.)
16:56 < oldlaptop> or rather "the X sets" do
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16:56 < whiteman809> what do you think about bumping up kern.securelevel on some installations? when does touching it make sense?
16:56 < whiteman809> i mean kern.securelevel set to 2 instead of default 1
16:56 < oldlaptop> Where the restrictions won't affect anything you want the system to do, maybe that makes sense.
16:58  * whiteman809 is reading what does securelevel do
16:58 < whiteman809> last point about pf(4) doesn't seem to be a good thing on most of my systems
16:59 < eea> whiteman809: fwiw, none of my openbsd systems ever had that flag touched... since 5.2 days
16:59 < oldlaptop> securelevel 2 seems (at least to me) like a pretty specialized thing.
16:59 < whiteman809> i also don't think touching it in my systems is necessary
16:59 < whiteman809> maybe in some environments that doesn't change much
17:00 < oldlaptop> securelevel 1 is a pretty sensible default - there are reasons you might need it *lower*, but not common ones.
17:00 < whiteman809> like when i'm sure i won't ever touch pf or try to change time
17:00 < whiteman809> i see openbsd has sane defaults
17:00 < whiteman809> although most of my machines is debian and gentoo
17:00 < whiteman809> i'm learning openbsd on vm
17:01 < eea> awesome!
17:01 < whiteman809> i'm curious how pf(4) does work, i like openbsd tools
17:01 < eea> pf works like a firewall :)
17:01 < whiteman809> s/does work/syntax/
17:01 < eea> syntax is even easier
17:01 < whiteman809> i want to learn new firewall
17:02 < eea> and common among bsd base daemons
17:02 < anthk_> why not a separace libgccjit
17:02 < anthk_> and some jit FLAVOUR for emacs?
17:02 < eea> pf, relayd, httpd, opensmtpd, etc
17:02 < whiteman809> i'm going to install openbsd maybe on my home made router
17:03 < oldlaptop> Something like a 'read-only' firewall machine would be a good case for securelevel 2. (The kind of thing that mounts all its filesystems read-only, or possibly is running from a RAM disk without the possibility of persistence as with https://www.nmedia.net/flashrd/.)
17:03 < oldlaptop> But still inconvenient if you need to modify rules (to forward a new port, or something) frequently. (In practice it'd mean that requires a reboot.)
17:06 < eea> i could see securelevel 2 being useful for a machine used as a CA root or immutable firewall
17:06 < eea> but the overhead of that action is, every modification becomes a multistep ritual
17:12 < vortexx> whiteman809: a lot of us here use OpenBSD on home made routers, you'll find lots of people ready to share tips
17:13  * oldlaptop mourns pcengines
17:13 < oldlaptop> not such a hot tip anymore, that one
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17:16 < oldlaptop> maybe the 'next one' will end up being riscv or something
17:24 < jca> anthk_: 1. no one has made the effort to move a single architecture to lang/gcc/11 instead of lang/gcc/8; until we move to gcc/11, libgccjit is effectively unusable in the ports tree 2. I despise the idea of native compilation for emacs modules and I strongly anyone anyone *needs* it 3. I don't want to handle 5 x 2 FLAVOR combinations when updating the emacs port.
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18:05 < vortexx> jca: just out of curiosity, what proportion of the ports tree uses gcc8 vs llvm? 
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18:18 < jca> vortexx: on amd64 it's mostly fortran stuff that needs lang/gcc/8,-f95; but a bunch of packages in turn depend on fortran packages.
18:20 < jca> sqlports can help find the exact list of offenders.  eg there are more specific ports like sysutils/firmware/vmm 
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19:02 < vortexx> jca: ok thanks!
19:03 < vortexx> oldlaptop: yeah hopefully we'll find a new single board that meets modern requirements
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 21 00:00:20 2025