--- Log opened Wed Jul 30 00:00:44 2025
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01:18 < deimosBSD> late to the party, but ftp over tls is a valid configuration
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02:37 < carbonfiber> How can I print the mtime of a file on unix. In a portable way (that works on other and older unixes). "ls -l" only shows the year for files older than 6 months (as opposed to hours:minutes). and "date -r" does not work for non-GNU date utilities. "stat" is also linux only.
02:41 < pardis> stat(1) is Linux-only? must have been running Linux this whole time
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02:43 < carbonfiber> hmm. my bad. did not know openbsd had stat(1) only thought it has stat(2). anyway, the question still stands because there are older unix systems and other unix systems that dont have stat.
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02:54 < byteskeptical> carbonfiber: sys/stat.h
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03:05 < byteskeptical> carbonfiber: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/95bdaa99/
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03:18 < carbonfiber> byteskeptical: Thanks :)
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10:08 < vortexx> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20250730080301 CDE is coming to OpenBSD for those who want the retro mid 90s desktop look
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10:09 < renaud> I saw that earlier, but I am really wondering who will use that for every day
10:10 < renaud> it's fun, for sure, but apart being fun :)
10:15  * sonya vote for gnome2 build with gtk2.. all round classic and the best DE *nix ever had..
10:17 < vortexx> I wonder if anyone's been able to configure CDE to resemble Irix Indigo Magic at all... I was never really a fan of CDE when I used it in the late 90s, I prefered afterstep 0.9
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10:21 < sonya> environment is the key.. apps and so on.. i liked cde but now on windowmaker ..  
10:22 < sonya> a bit of offtopic, sorry: how to screw up all things but present it as "WOW! it's progress!" ->  https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2025/07/29/artificial-intelligence-and-the-linux-community/
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11:57 < andrath> I'd like qtile to work on OpenBSD. I should probably look into that someday
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15:32 < vortexx> sonya: well Netscape used motif on *nix so it seemed to integrate rather well. The graphical tools of the base system seemed very limited to me and the mimemail was just useless
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15:36 < thrig> fvwm might also be considered retro by some
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15:42 < Bradipo> I still prefer the simplicity of fvwm.
15:42 < Bradipo> The .fvwmrc file can be daunting just because it seems to have a lot of flexibility.
15:43 < sibiria> i like cwm a lot. everything except its annoying and fixed sloppy focus
15:44 < ivdsangen> the default fvwm is intuitive, good for a first time user i think
15:45 < tux0r> cde was the last good unix desktop
15:45 < tux0r> i'm glad to finally have a tested port.
15:46 < vortexx> tux0r: meh, OPENSTEP 4.2 was the ultimate for me
15:46 < ssm_> vortexx: I'll mess with it on a separate user for a few minutes maybe. I have a hard time believing I'll replace cwm with anything though
15:46 < ssm_> maybe spectrwm, but that's about it
15:47 < vortexx> ssm_: I doubt anyone will start really using as a long term daily driver but it may be an interesting option for the greybeards
15:47 < Bradipo> vortexx: really using what?
15:48 < sibiria> supposedly awesomewm is also... awesome
15:48 < ssm_> Bradipo: CDE
15:48 < Bradipo> ssm_: Ok, I only asked because he sayd "start really using as a ..." but kind of left out the "what".
15:49 < vortexx> s/really using/really using it
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15:49 < Bradipo> Ahh, that makes more sense now.
15:50 < vortexx> sorry, it's been a very long day, my typing isn't perfect
15:51 < Bradipo> No apologies necessary, I was just seeking clarification.
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15:51 < Bradipo> We've had 3--4 WMs/DEs mentioned in a few lines so I wasn't sure what was the target.
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16:06 < vortexx> :)
16:10 < tux0r> back in the 2010s, when everyone and their dog wanted to have a tiling window manager for no good reason whatsoever, it was even more complicated
16:10 < tux0r> they all looked the same..
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16:17 < Bradipo> Hahaha, I was using a tiling WM long before 2010s.
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16:19 < lts> Still do. I do not understand what semi-randomly floating windows would do better
16:20 < ivdsangen> and less usage of the mouse necessary
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16:22 < tux0r> floating windows make more sense - you can only have one focused window anyway. also, the mouse is a pretty solid device for computer input.
16:23 < Bradipo> I tend to avoid the mouse and only use it when programs require it.
16:23 < lts> On-topic question: If there is an ipv4-only LAN network, with MTU 1500 everywhere, where all egress traffic to Internet goes through a wireguard tunnel (MTU 1420), should I set something in PF? E.g. "match in all scrub (max-mss 1380)" perhaps?
16:24 < lts> ICMP for PMTU is allowed
16:24 < vortexx> lts: yes that might be a good idea but do a lot of testing before going full in
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20:06 < andrath> https://github.com/qtile/qtile/pull/5399 <-- got qtile working on OpenBSD
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22:17 < Matt|home> anyone have experience running a web server? if it's off-topic disregard, im just wondering which one is best for a simple static page home setup and what the most common attack vectors are. apparently there's 2 versions of httpd for free and open
22:18 < tux0r> openbsd httpd is the original. not sure about the freebsd one.
22:18 < humm> the best one is https://skarnet.org/software/tipidee/ but if using OpenBSD you may be tempted to use its httpd
22:18 < tux0r> i run several web things over httpd+relayd, actually
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22:19 < Matt|home> right now im on free due to difficulties with wifi, but it seems httpd is just ported to free. tux0r - for a very basic, simple static page, like the most basic bitch website
22:19 < Matt|home> httpd is fine?
22:19 < tux0r> humm: for reducing attack vectors, third-party software isn't a wise choice :) 
22:20 < uwharrie> why wouldn't it be fine?
22:20 < tux0r> Matt|home: yup. (but it supports most other use cases just fine as well.)
22:20 < humm> tux0r, /usr/sbin/httpd is not much of an attack vector if it’s not running
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22:21 < tux0r> i can imagine httpd having been audited rather thoroughly
22:21 < Matt|home> let's see, suggestions for making sure some religious tech-savvy group doesn't give me a hard time.. no php, databases, ssh exposure, disable unused services, dedicated user with no shell access for running the server, pf for firewall, block all ports except web, chroot the server and i hear fbsd has jails but i never used them, buuut
22:21 < Matt|home> ... yeah none of that is gonna stop someone from pissing off my ISP by DDOSing me
22:22 < uwharrie> the bulk of those requirements are done by default for httpd
22:22 < Matt|home> especially since im using their issued "router"
22:22 < Matt|home> y'know.. the ones that require a phone app to work..
22:23 < uwharrie> you can get DDoSed without running a webserver
22:23 < Matt|home> that's true, but im posting advertisements for a URL
22:23 < tux0r> yes, freebsd has jails. they are quite good, honestly. but this is the wrong channel for that :)
22:23 < Matt|home> nobody is alive in #opsec otherwise i would've asked there ;_; 
22:24 < Bradipo> Matt|home: I use httpd(8) from base for my simple hosting needs.
22:24 < Bradipo> But if you're really looking for no frills... publicfile suits as well.
22:24 < Matt|home> tux0r - i don't know how long im going to have to run a home server for, and i do have.. legitimate.. security (and otherwise) concerns about my ISP issued hardware. but i don't know if i can justify the costs for setting up a dedicated router/firewall
22:24 < Bradipo> https://cr.yp.to/publicfile.html
22:25 < Matt|home> if i do i'll be using openbsd for it 100%
22:25 < thrig> keeping AI bots off of the webserver seems a popular hobby these days
22:25 < uwharrie> but a boring one. poisoning their training data is much more fun
22:25 < Bradipo> I haven't had too much trouble with "AI" bots... probably because most of what I host is "private" anyway.
22:26 < Matt|home> yeah. i appreciate the input everyone <3
22:26 < Matt|home> ty
22:26 < Bradipo> I've not heard of tipidee before, looks interesting.
22:26 < uwharrie> they don't seem to care what the data is, they'll try to crawl your entire site regardless
22:27 < Matt|home> i don't know how bad AI crawlers are, but i do have a crawler project in the works - for my own personal search engine. i just want something able to search only very specific databases, wikipedia medical/science journals etc, rather than going through google or whatever
22:27 < tux0r> i actually put my code repositories behind anubis. i know that blocking will never work perfectly, but anubis is quite okay-ish :) and what i want to achieve is as little of my code in some asshole CEO's database as possible.
22:27 < Matt|home> i assume that's slightly less destructive than an AI crawler..
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 31 00:00:00 2025