--- Log opened Sun Aug 03 00:00:50 2025
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02:18 < deimosBSD> anyone tried running 7.7 with a amd radeon 9070xt?  install boots, turns the screen green, and hangs (afaict)
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02:19 < mischief> perhaps the imported linux drm driver in openbsd didn't get support yet?
02:20 < deimosBSD> that's my guess
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05:14 < decuser> hi. is this the active openbsd channel? I just got installed again and haven't chatted since about 7.5 release.
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05:15 < decuser> i'm using my thinkpad t430 for this, anybody know if openbsd is well suited for the t430?
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05:16 < decuser> obviously, I have it "working" but I don't want to waste time if it's a lost cause for some reason.
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08:24 < rkta> Is there something like git log -p for cvs? I'd like to see the changes to a Makefile in /usr/ports.
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08:28 < sonya> rkta: cvsweb could do the trick: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/  .. as an option..
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08:40 < rkta> not as nice as a command, but works, I guess. thx sonya 
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08:45 < sonya> rkta: cvs diff -r old_revision -r new_revision [Make]file  .. 
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08:50 < rkta> This gives me only a single diff. I wanted to see the diff for every revision.
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09:11 < rkta> I try to bump the version in a port. Using the commit hash in DIST_TUPLE works, but when I replace the hash with the tag I get an error from make about a missing ./configure file. Can someone push me in the right direction please? Diffs and error: http://rkta.de/pub/ports-update
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09:39 < kuzdra> echelon: thanks, good to know! here are approximate read rates on my ZMB:
09:40 < kuzdra> # pv -tabWp -s 500M -S </dev/sd1c >/dev/null # => eMMC: 500MiB 0:00:50 (9.91MiB/s)
09:41 < kuzdra> and for /dev/sd0c, which is a 1TB <ATA, Samsung SSD 870, SVQ0>, it's this: 500MiB 0:00:09 (55.4MiB/s)
09:50 < kuzdra> write rates, including ffs overhead are: emmc 11.5MiB/s and sata 421MiB/s. does it even make sense that write is times faster? /-: i must be doing something wrong
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10:15 < mischief> kuzdra: might be ram cache on the sata disk
10:15 < mischief> but yea mmc are shit
10:17 < mischief> at work all our products have emmc of varying quality over the years, the older products take ages to read or write
10:19 < mischief> if you as a user have any expectation of expedience dont accept emmc.. but if you're making a product then you will use emmc because it's cheap. market forces at work.
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11:52 < vortexx> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20250802084523
11:52 < vortexx> new ssh features!
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11:56 < lts> Not bad
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13:16 < jmabsd> An OpenBSD network Q: If you have a computer X which has double connections to the Internet, say ETH0 and ETH1,
13:16 < quinq> Using splork is definitely progress
13:16 < jmabsd> and now you want to run programs A, B and C on your computer X.
13:16 < jmabsd> How do you configure which of ETH0 and ETH1 that A, B and C respectively will be routed to the internet through?
13:17 < quinq> I believe that's done with rdomains
13:18 < jmabsd> Oh the invite code is "RISC-V" all caps great.
13:19 < jmabsd> quinq: What I asked is done with rdomains?
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13:19 < quinq> yeah
13:19 < quinq> man rdomain
13:20 < quinq> (then man route -> exec)
13:22 < sibiria> if the interfaces cover different routes, the choice of what goes where should happen automatically
13:22 < sibiria> but if they are distinct routes to the public internet, you need to go about things differently
13:22 < sibiria> rdomains, as quinq suggests
13:23 < sibiria> and then you can contain a process to a specific such with e.g. "route -T2 exec blurp"
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13:24 < quinq> Is blurp to be preferred over splork?
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13:24 < sibiria> to me it's the spiritual successor
13:24 < sibiria> on any given day i will blurp before i spork
13:25 < sibiria> jmabsd: if you launch stuff in different rdomains, and these things expect to reach something on the loopback interface, you gotta remember to set up multiple such as well
13:25 < quinq> Makes sense regarding the current state of the world
13:25 < sibiria> typical caveat leading to question marks before realizing what's missing
13:26 < sibiria> you may also need (or want) to set up redirection from the other rdomains to the default one (rdomain 0) if they expect to reach something there
13:26 < sibiria> for example unbound running on 127.0.0.1 in rdomain 0
13:27 < jmabsd> sibiria,quinc: Thanks a lot for pointing out
13:27 < sibiria> the fact that the rdomains are completely isolated from one another isn't immediately obvious. usually a bit of head-scratching when you go down that path :)
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13:27 < jmabsd> Yeah so like, you want your Wireguard connection to go out on ETH0 *OR* ETH1. You may want two Wireguard concurrently that go out on either.
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13:27 < jmabsd> By the way, a general networking question: You want your OpenBSD to be both NAT4 and NAT66 (aka NAT6?).
13:28 < sibiria> yeah that's a typical case. or you ahve one WG route and you still want to be able to use the regular egress for some things
13:28 < jmabsd> But you want a configuration toggle so either the LAN NAT for both IPv4 and 6 go out on ETH0, or it goes out on ETH1.
13:28 < jmabsd> what man pages should I read. it was a while ago I touched this
13:29 < jmabsd> sibiria: wait what do you mean by the regular egress
13:30 < jmabsd> when I set up a wireguard, it becomes a new interface right? So WG0 goes to ETH0, and WG1 goes to ETH1 = fair?
13:30 < sibiria> you have one single egress to the internet (re0 or whatever interface). you also have a WG tunnel, wg0, which (obviously) reaches out on that same internet
13:30 < jmabsd> wireguard is a kernel module, so there'll be a configuration toggle for which interface the respective wireguard should work on?
13:30 < sibiria> you may want some things to use the regular interface, and some things to only access the internet through the other end of the tunnel
13:31 < sibiria> effectively giving you two routes to the internet
13:31 < jmabsd> ah right.  how do i specify the default interface (egress), maybe that would just be lo0 lol, or wg0 or whatever. may change depending on situation.
13:32 < jmabsd> as for setting up eth0 and eth1 at least that's easy - "dhclient eth0", "dhclient eth1", and I guess a separate round "dhclient -6 eth0" and "dhclient -6 eth1".
13:32 < sibiria> you can set it in /etc/mygate, but openbsd will itself make a good guess on what's what
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13:32 < sibiria> it's not gonna place a wireguard interface in the egress group
13:33 < sibiria> nor will it place a loopback interface there
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13:33 < sibiria> (they have their own groups)
13:33 < jmabsd62> Some connection issue. The last I saw was "you can set it in /etc/mygate, .."
13:33 < sibiria> (15:32) < sibiria> it's not gonna place a wireguard interface in the egress group
13:33 < sibiria> (15:33) < sibiria> nor will it place a loopback interface there
13:33 < jmabsd62> next msg I see "you can set it in /etc/mygate, ". can you copy . aha thanks
13:34 < jmabsd62> aha.  uu. hm.  how do I force Wireguard to go out on eth0 or eth1?
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13:35 < sibiria> i'm honestly not sure if it's doable with hostname.if/ifconfig
13:36 < sibiria> perhaps you can just set the destination
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13:37 < sibiria> i'm the wrong person to ask when it comes to that type of multihoming. i've never explored it
13:37 < jmabsd62> AI suggests the only way to force interface on Wireguard in OpenBSD is to specify route in the routing table per IP: route add 1.2.3.4/32 -iface eth1  or  route add 1.2.3.4/32 -ifp eth1 gateway_ip
13:37 < sibiria> right, you can throw a route into the hostname.if as well
13:37 < sibiria> !route ... ...
13:37 < jmabsd62> aha
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13:38 < euphores> ifconfig ... wgrtable
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13:38 < jmabsd> euphores: oh. what is this
13:38 < sibiria> that comes later
13:38 < jmabsd> (sibiria: sorry last message I saw was "!route ... ...".)
13:38 < sibiria> you missed no text
13:39 < euphores> man ifconfig\n/wg
13:40 < sibiria> when i partition wg tunnels i just "rdomain N" them in hostname.if. different tool but "same same"
13:40 < sibiria> depending on what you want to achieve, that is
13:40 < jmabsd> Oh, I see the "Wireguard" section under ifconfig's man page. Great. This looks like it allows me to configure Wireguard inline instead of use some /etc/ config file
13:41 < sibiria> with openbsd, you can configure all of it in the hostname.if
13:41 < sibiria> you don't need the wg tools
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13:43 < jmabsd> OK. Anyhow so just like ETH0 and ETH1, WG0 and WG1 can have process-specific default network configuration, which falls under "rdomains".
13:43 < jmabsd> nice.
13:43 < sibiria> yes. to openbsd they are like any other interface in that sense
13:43 < jmabsd> ah right so, the last question today: which man pages should I read for setting up NAT4 and NAT66
13:43 < jmabsd> yep sure ic.
13:44 < jmabsd> the LAN is, say, ETH2.    so ETH2 should be NAT:ed to WG0
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13:45 < sibiria> the pf.conf man page has plenty of examples for basic NAT use
13:46 < sibiria> there are some examples in the PF FAW on openbsd.org as well
13:46 < sibiria> FAQ*
13:46 < sibiria> not sure if it covers ipv6-over-ipv4 etc.
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13:56 < jmabsd> OK
13:56 < jmabsd> sibiria: IPv6-over-IPv4 is not relevant. NAT66 means, to do a NAT in IPv6 realm
13:56 < jmabsd> an IPv6-to-IPv6 NAT.
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14:00 < sibiria> yeah i'm just saying, i don't know if the FAQ covers anything ipv6 at all, because it's kind of old and dated
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14:47 < jmabsd> > <sibiria> yeah i'm just saying, i don't know if the FAQ covers anything ipv6 at all, because it's kind of old and dated
14:47 < jmabsd> sibiria: I see. Thanks for pointing out. Will figure out
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14:49 < jmabsd> I'll wonder how you set up a NAT, so everything coming in on ETH3 goes out on WG0 etc., but then add an exception that TCP connections to 1.2.3.4 should go to ETH0.
14:52 < sibiria> rdr-to and nat-to are the two primary tools. for some setups, binat-to as well
14:53 < sibiria> typically you redirect (rdr) for inbound traffic, and nat for outbound traffic. binat is a convenience tool that effectively produces a rdr/nat "pair"
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15:53 < librecat> it seems like WCN785x is not supported by the qwz driver
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16:08 < nerfur> Hello! anybody interested in loongarch64 port of OpenBSD? I slowly moving in this direction already, but looking for more brains on this not easy path 
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16:12 < jmabsd> sibiria: thanks for the pointer re. rdr-to and nat-to
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17:03 < jmabsd> Does the VM (virtualizer) work on ARM64 in OpenBSD now?
17:03 < jmabsd> aka hypervisor
17:05 < sibiria> no
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17:19 < jmabsd> Ok.
17:19 < sonya> btw, do we have smth like 6to4 or teredo in ports? to ping ipv6 with ipv4 setup i mean.. thanks..
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17:22 < sibiria> sonya: there's gif(4)
17:23 < jmabsd> OpenBSD's hardware support is way better than FreeBSD's, that's impressive. https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/RockChip#SBCs_.2F_Boards
17:23 < sibiria> tunnel, so not entirely 6-to-4, but...
17:23 < sonya> sibiria: i know , but afair there was smth like terero in ports..
17:24 < sonya> i just forget to install and test.. err..
17:25 < sibiria> yeah i have no idea if openbsd has Teredo natively. the only "bridge" for moving from ipv4 to ipv6 i'm familiar with in openbsd is the tunnel
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17:35 < jmabsd> "arm64 support “has started”" it says in https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2024-vmd_multiprocessing.pdf
17:37 < pardis> so has opencvs development
17:41 < lts> And fusion power development
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19:58 < waffles> hey so my friend just installed gentoo. his newfangled wifi 7 card is erroring out on boot
19:58 < waffles> says unsupported
19:59 < waffles> ive unmasked kernel 6.15.8 and had him emerge that, he has linux fimrware installed
19:59 < waffles> oh sorry wrong chat
19:59 < zelest> or, wrong OS ;)
20:00 < zelest> this is always the right channel
20:00 < waffles> hahahah true
20:06 < lts> We may give a bad opinion that no one needs wifi 7, but still
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21:13 < njn> <3 openbsd
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21:56 < riceandbeans> I am looking at laptops today ahd wondering how is Nvidia support today?
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21:57 < riceandbeans> I'm guessing near nonexistent and maybe neauveau or something
21:59 < sibiria> non-existent, really
21:59 < sibiria> the world will be a better place if you buy AMD
22:00 < sibiria> will work great on openbsd
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22:01 < riceandbeans> i would prefer no Nvidia but at this place it was the only non apple non touch screen
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22:02 < ssm_> riceandbeans: nvidia has wonderful support with the wsfb(4) and vesa(4) Xorg drivers via efifb(4) and vga(4). big fast cpu acceleration with big graphics
22:03 < ssm_> nv(4) also exists, only on the newest hardware of the millenium though
22:04 < riceandbeans> i can live with vesa, already do on my FreeBSD workstation just fine
22:04 < oldlaptop> I would have thought 90% plus of big-box-store laptops were still intel
22:04 < oldlaptop> (those with AMD APUs would of course be radeon/amdgpu)
22:04 < sibiria> glorious amdgpu
22:04 < sibiria> fast and well-supported
22:05 < oldlaptop> as for GPUs, I would think as far as market dynamics go Intel is the one to "root for" at the moment, simply in hopes that they'll keep something competetive in the market
22:05 < oldlaptop> three being somewhat less bad than two
22:06 < sibiria> riceandbeans: most wintel laptops with nvidia discrete graphics also have the intel IGP still
22:06 < sibiria> so you have that for a better experience
22:06 < dzwdz> do y'all know any resources which would help me understand why OpenBSD doesn't let me assign the same IP to multiple interfaces? this keeps bitting me
22:06 < oldlaptop> Whether and for what the intel IGP is usable varies wildly, unfortunately.
22:06 < dzwdz> biting
22:06 < dzwdz> i can't spell
22:06 < sibiria> works fine on most but the very newest wintel stuff
22:07 < oldlaptop> sibiria: Not inteldrm support, but the crazy switchable stuff.
22:07 < oldlaptop> Exactly what you can do (if anything) with either GPU without actual support for the switchable nonsense (which openbsd does not have) varies wildly.
22:08 < sibiria> you mean intel discrete graphics? that's not an option, correct
22:08 < sibiria> but who in their right mind would spend money on intel arc etc.
22:08 < oldlaptop> e.g. my W520 cannot do any external display output with the intel iGPU, that's all permanently wired to the nvidia GPU.
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22:08 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD will boot up just fine with output to the internal display, but cannot do anything with the external outputs.
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22:09 < oldlaptop> (Flabbergastingly, linux will do that more or less seamlessly out of the box. That has to have been a whole lot of frustration for somebody.)
22:10 < oldlaptop> Even very closely related machines will be different. I'm given to understand basically the same exact thinkpad with a "T" in the model name instead of a "W" has one of the outputs wired to the intel GPU, and another wired to the nvidia.
22:11 < oldlaptop> Newer stuff I think has *vaguely* trended towards not connecting the nvidia to anything? (That would be most helpful for openbsd purposes.)
22:12 < oldlaptop> <sibiria> but who in their right mind would spend money on intel arc etc.
22:12 < oldlaptop> I assume I'll seriously consider that if intel are still in business next time I'm speccing out a personal machine. (I want to see more vendors in the GPU market, not fewer.)
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22:14 < oldlaptop> (The way intel are running things that actually might be a real question. Probably they would turn into a zombified appendage of the taxpayer instead of actually "going out of business", but that's another flamewar.)
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22:21 < ssm_> deepcomputing risc-v boards are shipping with imagination gpu's. I haven't hacked the kernel hard enough to get mine working, but on linux they're only a bit weaker than megacorp offerings
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22:21 < ssm_> gl support leaves something to be desired
22:21 < pardis> <dzwdz> do y'all know any resources which would help me understand why OpenBSD doesn't let me assign the same IP to multiple interfaces? this keeps bitting me
22:21 < pardis> probably because aggregating interfaces is done with trunk(4) or veb(4), depending on exactly what you are trying to achieve
22:21 < ssm_> yeah trunk(4) is probably what you want, with failover trunkproto
22:22 < KennySmith44_> because its openbsd
22:22 < ssm_> trunk is like lagg on netbsd
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22:23 < ssm_> also, check out rdomains and rtables
22:23 < pardis> that may or may not be worth checking out, again, depending on what you are trying to achieve
22:24 < pardis> assigning the same IP address to multiple interfaces is not a goal, it's a proposed solution
22:24 < pardis> (to some unstated problem)
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22:34 < oldlaptop> Obviously the problem is "how to utterly confuse ARP on this network when I only have one machine to do it with"
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22:43 < ssm_> do pf tables not support ip ranges? how do I block a range of ip addresses (geoblocking) short of painfully converting everything to CIDR notation?
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22:45 < dzwdz> pardis: for context, i'm using openbsd as a router in dn42 (see dn42.dev), i have an /28 right now
22:45 < dzwdz> ideally i'd just want to only use one address from that range for that router
22:46 < dzwdz> the first issue i ran into was that the source address for outgoing connections is chosen based on the interface addresses
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22:48 < dzwdz> i use wireguard, so i have one interface per peer - so at first when i didn't assign any ip to those interfaces, the source ip chosen was 0.0.0.0
22:48 < dzwdz> "route sourceaddr" sets the source address for all packets in an rdomain, so if i set that to my dn42 address i broke "normal" internet connectivity
22:49 < dzwdz> i solved that by moving most of the dn42 stuff to another rdomain
22:49 < dzwdz> at first glance either trunk(4) or veb(4) might be better solutions, i'll look into them
22:50 < dzwdz> another issue i've had is that i can't add static routes via an interface if it doesn't have an ip address
22:51 < dzwdz> okay, no, trunk(4) doesn't make sense here
22:51 < oldlaptop> trying to route IP traffic over an interface without IP connectivity also makes less sense than would be ideal
22:52 < dzwdz> i mean, it has ip connectivity
22:52 < dzwdz> but i don't want to burn an ipv4 address per each interface
22:53 < dzwdz> i just want to understand why this limitation is there
22:53 < oldlaptop> How so, if it doesn't have an address?
22:54 < dzwdz> it only doesn't have an address because openbsd doesn't let me assign the same address to multiple interfaces
22:55 < dzwdz> in an ideal world i'd assign 172.20.128.64 to each wireguard interface
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22:55 < dzwdz> 172.20.128.64 being my ip in dn42
22:55 < oldlaptop> That will confuse wireguard too, not just normal IP networking.
22:55 < dzwdz> how would it confuse wireguard?
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22:56 < dzwdz> this is what i'm confused about, i want to understand this limitation
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22:57 < oldlaptop> wireguard does a sort of "routing" by itself, with wgaip, to decide which peer traffic should be sent to for a given destination IP.
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22:58 < dzwdz> i know, that's why i have multiple interfaces
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22:58  * oldlaptop does not really want to see how deep this particular rabbit hole goes
22:58 < dzwdz> right now the allowedips on each is 0.0/0, ::/0 (i could limit this to the dn42 ranges, but eh) - the actual routing is done outside wireguard, with routes received via bgp
23:00 < dzwdz> wireguard is just a detail here, you can imagine this is a physical network, and each interface is a direct link to some bgp peer
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23:07 < jrmu> Anyone here familiar with getting dovecot to work with Maildir on openbsd? I've been trying to get it to work with opensmtpd: https://paste.ircnow.org/opy3whyncpujwpibo567
23:08 < jrmu> or does anyone here have experience with a lighter imap/pop daemon? I've been trying to troubleshoot this dovecot issue for a few hours and getting tired of it
23:11 < mischief> smh, can't install python pandas because 1gb /tmp runs out of space
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23:48 < dzwdz> bumping the previous question
23:48 < dzwdz> i can't use veb(4) with wireguard, presumably because the latter operates on layer 3
23:49 < dzwdz> seemingly i can set the same ip on multiple interfaces as long as all but one are POINTOPOINT
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 04 00:00:24 2025