--- Log opened Mon Aug 04 00:00:24 2025
--- Day changed Mon Aug 04 2025
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00:02 < dlg> what's the problem?
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00:06 < dzwdz> i mostly just want to understand why i can't set the same ip on multiple interfaces
00:06 < dzwdz> why that limitation is there
00:07 < sibiria> if you could set the same IP on two interfaces, what will ARP respond? interface 1's MAC or interface 2's? or both?
00:08 < dlg> you can
00:08 < dlg> i dont think you should need to though
00:08 < dzwdz> sibiria: in this case all the interfaces are wireguard, so ARP isn't relevant here
00:09 < dzwdz> but i would assume it'd reply with the MAC of the interface it received the query on?
00:09 < dzwdz> this seems like a pretty obvious answer to me, maybe i'm missing something
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00:10 < dzwdz> if i have interfaces A and B with ip 192.0.2.1 directly connected to some other computers
00:10 < dzwdz> and e.g. the computer connected to A asks for the ip of 192.0.2.1
00:10 < dzwdz> er, the mac
00:10 < dzwdz> it obviously should get A's mac
00:11 < dzwdz> dlg: do you see the context in the backlog? i'd gladly hear the openbsd way to do things
00:11 < dzwdz> i solved my sourceaddr woes by moving all the dn42 stuff to a separate rdomain
00:12 < dlg> re the same subnet/ip on multiple ethernet interfaces, i think there's bugs in that space cos of how that stuff is shoved into the routing table
00:12 < dlg> i have a diff somewhere
00:12 < dzwdz> well, this is a half-solution. if the destination is directly on link, the address set with "route sourceaddr" is ignored, and it's trying to use the address assigned to the interface
00:12 < dzwdz> and there is none, so the source address is set to 0.0.0.0
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00:13 < dzwdz> so there are still a few hosts i can't access from the router rdomain without explicitly setting the source address
00:13 < dlg> the impression i get is you have a /28, and you want to use one of the IPs from that range on the router, and then assign the others to other machines
00:13 < dzwdz> it's not really an issue because the only thing running in that rdomain is bgpd, and i'm setting the source addresses there manually anyways
00:13 < dzwdz> but it's still dumb
00:13 < dzwdz> dlg: yup
00:13 < dlg> you use wg to talk to dn42?
00:14 < dzwdz> for the most part
00:14 < dlg> for this part?
00:14 < dzwdz> right now all my peer connections are via wireguard
00:14 < dzwdz> i'll probably also start using tinc for some other peers soon
00:14 < dlg> k
00:15 < dzwdz> (because i want to run a router on 9front, and the only vpn 9front supports is tinc, but that's a whole other story)
00:15 < dlg> so dn42 is routing the /28 to you over a wg link
00:15 < dzwdz> yup
00:15 < dlg> and you've assigned one of the ips in that range to an interface on your router
00:15 < dzwdz> right now it's on an rport in the rdomain i've made for this stuff
00:15 < dlg> k
00:16 < dlg> so the next step is getting the other ips in that /28 onto other hosts?
00:16 < dzwdz> well, no, not quite
00:16 < dlg> oh?
00:17 < dzwdz> well, most importantly i want to understand why this limitation is there
00:18 < dlg> i havent seen the limitation yet
00:18 < dzwdz> i assume it's there for a reason, but i'm pretty sure that e.g. linux does let me assign the same ip to multiple interfaces
00:18 < dlg> oh, that one
00:18 < dlg> im pretty sure ive assigned the same ip on multiple non-ethernet interfaces before
00:19 < dzwdz> this also makes it so stuff like "route add 192.0.2.1 -iface -link wg1234" fails, because wg1234 doesn't have an IP assigned
00:19 < dzwdz> dlg: this seems to be possible if the interface is POINTOPOINT
00:19 < dzwdz> which wireguard isn't
00:19 < dlg> yep
00:19 < dlg> i'll have to look at why it's hard for wg
00:20 < dlg> generally i burn some rfc1918 space for links between things
00:20 < dzwdz> when i tried doing this before separating dn42 out into a separate rdomain
00:21 < dzwdz> hm, i'm not sure how to explain this succintly
00:21 < dlg> it's annoyingly subtle, yes
00:22 < dzwdz> basically, when i was connecting to dn42 hosts, it would use that "local" address as the source address
00:22 < dlg> you said something about source addresses too
00:22 < dlg> ok
00:22 < dlg> so that's a semantic from the socket code in the kernel
00:23 < dlg> if you connect() without binding to a specific ip, the socket code will do a route lookup to the destination and use the local ip from the interface the route is on
00:23 < dzwdz> yeah, so the fact that i can't set the same ip on multiple interfaces is really annoying here
00:24 < dlg> this can be changed with route sourceaddr, but that only kicks in if the destination IP is not "on link"
00:24 < dzwdz> yup
00:25 < dzwdz> thanks for your patience btw
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00:26 < dlg> are you using 7.7 or a snapshot?
00:27 < dzwdz> 7.7
00:27 < dlg> ok
00:27 < dlg> the way "on link" for route sourceaddr is decided has changed in -current
00:28 < dlg> in 7.7 it will never use route sourceaddr for routes with RTF_HOST set
00:28 < dlg> which sucks if you want to put individual IPs out of your /28 on the other hosts
00:28 < dlg> cos they'll all be host routes
00:28 < dlg> in -current it just uses the RTF_GATEWAY flag
00:29 < dlg> so say you have something like this: https://gist.github.com/dgwynne/e325ad6324d67a9396411f8cc0f4bd09
00:29 < dlg> in 7.7 it'll use 169.254.0.1 as the source ip address because RTF_HOST is set
00:29 < dlg> in current it'll use whatever route sourceaddr is set to (if it's set) because RTF_GATEWAY is set
00:30 < dlg> https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/ad1752045f2583190b8c2f2123355e1fe15009af
00:32 < dzwdz> so i did actually find that exact commit (or whatever the cvs terminology is before) when investigating
00:32 < dlg> you can work around it with nat in pf
00:32 < dzwdz> i didn't realize the implication that this lets me do what you've shown in that gist (thanks!)
00:33 < dzwdz> but i remember "by definition any route with RTF_GATEWAY set is not directly connected, so using it seems to better suit what route sourceaddr is doing." concerning me
00:33 < dlg> so the flags line in route get shows the RTF_FOO stuff
00:33 < dzwdz> like, those hosts /are/ directly connected
00:34 < dlg> sure, but that doesnt mean the routes have to be
00:34 < dzwdz> makes sense
00:34 < dlg> on link might have been a better way to describe it
00:37 < dzwdz> well, thanks, i'll try to switch to a snapshot then
00:37 < dzwdz> i'm still curious why these limitations are there if you happen to know that
00:38 < dzwdz> "these" as in 1. ips having to be unique, 2. "route add 192.0.2.1 -iface -link wg1234" failing if wg1234 doesn't have an ipv4 address
00:39 < dlg> the latter is cos the kernel doesnt support unnumbered interfaces
00:39 < dlg> routes use ips, the fact that they end up associated with an interface is kind of an afterthought in how it's put together
00:39 < dzwdz> OH, that makes sense
00:40 < dlg> there's been a few attempts to fix that over the years
00:40 < dlg> but it's very deeply ingrained
00:41 < dzwdz> wait, how come i can use the same ip for multiple interfaces with POINTOPOINT then
00:42 < dlg> that's different
00:42 < dlg> they're not unnumbered
00:43 < dlg> i dont know why you cant do that with wg interfaces
00:43 < dlg> but i know it doesnt work well with ethernet interfaces at the moment
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14:16 < izder456> is there any documentation on creating an rc.d script for a port i'm working on? (well, outside of the template)
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14:18 < izder456> i'm planning on writing a rc.d script for my games/luanti port so people can host luanti servers easily on openbsd.
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14:19 < oldlaptop> You probably want to chase some of the cross-references on https://man.openbsd.org/rc.d
14:19 < izder456> thanks, oldlaptop
14:19 < oldlaptop> especially https://man.openbsd.org/rc.subr.8
14:20 < izder456> the template reads like greek to me so having proper docs is nice
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14:31 < kuzdra> since you are already on this: where can i see the template?
14:32 < oldlaptop> rc.subr(8) actually says, under FILES
14:33 < kuzdra> got it, thanks!
14:33 < oldlaptop> (conveniently that one is pretty straightforward on cvsweb :) https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/ports/infrastructure/templates/)
14:33 < izder456> kuzdra: https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/ports/infrastructure/templates/rc.template
14:34 < izder456> if you like, any help writing a rc script and testing for the games/luanti port would be helpful
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14:35 < izder456> i don't plan on running my own luanti server but got a buddy who plans on it
14:35 < izder456> so i have little personal need for it
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14:39 < kuzdra> izder456: i don't have experience, sorry. i've been thinking on making a port of a web service and it would need an rc script, so asked for it's already came up
14:40 < izder456> ah ic ic
14:40 < kuzdra> but hey, maybe someone on #openbsd-gaming will be keen on trying it out?
14:41 < kuzdra> ofc, ports@ is very helpful too
14:41 < pardis> if your program is well-behaved, writing an rc script should not be a job so big that help is needed
14:41 < pardis> most rc scripts are 3 lines long
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14:42 < izder456> i mean people have written OpenRC and SystemD services in the linux world for it, so i doubt it'd be too much trouble
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14:43 < izder456> I'm just not confident in my abilities
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14:45 < thrig> what is well behaved for systemd may not be compatible with rc
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14:47 < sibiria> if you can manage the horrific dumpster fire that is systemd service files, openbsd rc files should be no problem
14:47 < izder456> thanks for the confidence boost xD
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17:04 < jrmu> does openbsd support BSDAuth?
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17:09 < oldlaptop> If https://man.openbsd.org/authenticate.3 is what you mean by BSDAuth
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17:12 < jrmu> hmm, ok thanks oldlaptop 
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17:12 < jrmu> a dovecot user told me to use bsdauth if possible for authentication, since our passwd files were not compatible with the format dovecot expected
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17:33 < jtt> after almost 2 years of on and off work on the port, freecad is in the tree :)
17:37 < poh> that's wonderful news! Good on you.
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17:51 < oldlaptop> Quite the comprehensive and effective design/additive-manufacturing toolchain in ports these days :)
17:53  * oldlaptop gave up trying to build prusaslicer probably six or seven years ago
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18:17 < el_pepe> Hi im currently on a travel trip and cant look this up indepth, i had to add proc >> pledge.content in /etc/firefox otherwise all firefox tabs were crashing on me. Is this safe to keep like this?
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18:27 < Feigr> anyone have any tips for how to open a URL that your cursor is on in vi (not vim)?
18:27 < Feigr> maybe using marks in vi and then passing the content of that to an external program?
18:33 < jrmu> has anyone tried chrooting httpd to /home/ instead of /var/www? Are there any drawbacks to this setup?
18:34 < Bradipo> Feigr: I usually just do triple-click (with mouse) to highlight the line and then paste it where I want.
18:35 < Bradipo> If you're using terminal only, then you could use tmux.
18:35 < Bradipo> jmru: Depends on your intentions and goals I suppose.
18:35 < Feigr> ah yes maybe tmux is the answer and now vi itself
18:35 < Bradipo> You could use vi/ex commands I suppose.
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18:41 < quinq> Drawback could be sharing unwanting data
18:41 < quinq> And httpd not having access to (some) files
18:41 < quinq> s/unwanting/unwanted/
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18:46 < jrmu> does it break anything? I saw someone do it once on a system and acme-client seemed no longer to work
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18:46 < quinq> Well
18:46 < quinq> acme-client writes in some place
18:47 < quinq> If httpd doesn't have access to that place, it will not work
18:47 < quinq> If you change where httpd lives, you have to synchronize with other services that use httpd
18:47 < poh> does the users command list all users logged in? like does it show an entry for an ssh'd in user and a local user as seperate even though they're the same account?
18:47 < jrmu> hm alright thanks quinq 
18:47 < poh> one sec i'll read the man page
18:48 < quinq> jrmu, technically you could also run several httpds, and use relayd to redirect to one or the other depending on the requested path
18:48 < jrmu> the benefit I was thinking is that users could write webdocs in their home folder
18:49 < jrmu> rather than having to write on a separate partition in /var/, it would make disk quotas easier to manage
18:49 < poh> nah that's how users works on gnu/linux. i'm looking for the who command.
18:49 < quinq> You could also have a /var/www/htdocs/users, and in each user's home a ~/www that points to /var/www/htdocs/users/$USER
18:50 < quinq> jrmu, then it wouldn't work yeah ^^
18:50 < jrmu> yeah that's the setup I currently am using
18:50 < jrmu> a symlink to /var/www/htdocs/$USER
18:50 < Bradipo> That's what I currently do as well.
18:51 < jrmu> (be back later)
18:51 < quinq> Yeah poh :)
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18:55 < poh> quinq: thank you
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23:50 < talisc> Hello 
23:50 < talisc> guys 
23:51 < talisc> im getting some weird graphical glitches on my firefox
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23:55 < talisc> anywau 
23:55 < talisc> way* 
23:55 < talisc> i have to go 
23:55 < talisc> i will see a fix for this latter 
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 05 00:00:52 2025