--- Log opened Thu Aug 21 00:00:00 2025
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00:17 < niftily> hello, does someone has experience with a Quectel EM061K-GL?
00:18 < niftily> s/has/have/
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00:23 < niftily> it isn't listed in umb(4) but seems to be ok in dmesg
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02:15 < librecat> openbsd is not under active influence by corprations right
02:15 < librecat> linux kernel clearly is and i want to get away from it due to this
02:16 < librecat> i dont like some of the corprations influencing linux
02:16 < mischief> why
02:17 < librecat> do you really want me to sayi t?
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02:19 < librecat> mischief: im boycotting google and amazon for different reasons so i dont like them influencing mykernel
02:20 < librecat> and also supporting a kernel that changes itself to serve them
02:21 < librecat> i mean a lack of pushback for changes that affect others negatively but only them positively
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02:23 < librecat> mischief: i guess "be politics-free" is a rule simillar enough to no corprate influence
02:24 < librecat> because if a change is strictly for a company's benifit it will be like politics
02:25 < echelon> this all sounds very antisemitic
02:26 < librecat> echelon: yep you got it
02:27 < librecat> but should i have to say that is related to isreal
02:28 < librecat> im just asking a general question
02:28 < librecat> i could have asked it as "does openbsd support isreal and how direct are the ties if any"
02:31 < echelon> openbsd is sponsored by sodastream
02:34 < librecat> echelon: oh where is the link
02:35 < echelon> but really, i think there would be more sponsors if the openbsd foundation was a registered not for profit in the u.s. and israel
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02:36 < librecat> that is true aswell
02:37 < librecat> you cant get better than openbsd for being independant
02:37 < librecat> and isreal free
02:37 < librecat> i shouldnt have even asked
02:39 < librecat> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=174147402730498&w=2 i got too excited and failed to realize this diff is for arm
02:39 < echelon> i recall reading something about openbsd being used in the flight controllers on the powered hang gliders used in the oct 7 attacks
02:39 < librecat> how can i make WCN785X on my ryzen mobo work with qwz
02:40 < librecat> how do i tell it that it can load on my mobo
02:40 < librecat> maybe i can do some initial debugging using qemu passthrough
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02:41 < librecat> echelon: joke or real its hard for me to tell if you are making fun of my action or saying facts
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02:41 < echelon> sorry, being satirical :/
02:42 < fro> openbsd foundation takes money from coporations
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02:42 < librecat> echelon: do you know any resources about bringing up a variant with a driver already in the tree?
02:42 < fro> corporations*
02:42 < echelon> i would donate too if they were a registered 501(c) 3
02:42 < librecat> i want to make qwz support WCN7850 on amd64
02:42 < fro> you can still donate to them
02:42 < echelon> i don't understand the question
02:43 < echelon> fro: with no benefits
02:43 < librecat> i have this wifi chipset and i want to do bringup of it 
02:43 < echelon> no, i don't understand the question
02:43 < librecat> but the diff i found was for arm
02:43 < echelon> but i would like to run openbsd on old discarded phones for running a server on
02:44 < librecat> echelon: ok lemme say again, i installed openbsd on my desktop that im using with linux right now, it didnt recognize the wifi, i looked at the kernel module used, it was ath12k, i learned that ath12k is called qwz.c on openbsd, it said the device was not configured in dmesg, so i want to make it configured and see if i can make this device functional on openbsd on my own
02:45 < librecat> clear?
02:45 < librecat> so works on linux with ath12k
02:45 < librecat> doesnt work on openbsd with qwz
02:45 < librecat> and dmesg on openbsd says not configured
02:46 < librecat> and im asking if you have a resource to point me to
02:46 < librecat> because im interested in making this driver recognize my wifi card
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02:47 < librecat> but the diff i found on openbsd-tech is for arm64 laptops
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02:55 < fro> i don't even think there's a man page for qwz yet
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03:03 < mischief> it's also not enabled in any kernel
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03:18 < librecat> mischief: its commented out in the defualt config
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06:04 < shtrophic> Whats the current status of WPA3 in OpenBSD? Does anybody know?
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06:43 < lts> shtrophic: not supported
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07:55 < librecat> i tried making qwz work but it didnt, i wasted all this time trying to make a known bad driver run
07:56 < librecat> firmware does not load
07:56 < librecat> i also tried copying latest firmware from linux and i had the same result
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07:58 < librecat> might aswell try harder to fix it?
08:01 < librecat> no firmware loads but doesnt run, it errors out
08:08 < quinq> librecat, maybe try asking on the mailing list, and/or contact the main author
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08:49 < librecat> quinq: commit history makes it pretty clear
08:49 < librecat> the driver is a modified version of qwx
08:49 < librecat> and no commit saying its ready yet
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10:02 < quinq> librecat, yes it does, but you were saying that you want to try making it work anyway
10:02 < librecat> i tried hardware passthrough but it failed earlier
10:02 < librecat> if i want solid logs i should find the builtin serial port and read from it using something
10:03 < librecat> i have a 5v serial chip
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10:04 < librecat> quinq: apparently i need to find parts of ath12k that changed from ath11k and add those into qwz
10:04 < librecat> but good luck doing that when qwx changes every day :(
10:05 < librecat> this is my speculation on why development is slow
10:06 < librecat> intresting offtopic: when formatted as MBR Linux can read all the partitions in the OpenBSD area but not as GPT or that is what it seems like
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10:06 < librecat> using CONFIG_UFS_FS_WRITE i can write aswell
10:06 < librecat> easing migration
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10:13 < dirtweker> hello, i encountered this issue https://old.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/j8hbsc/x_make_my_speakers_buzz/ - would anyone be able to help me with it? I'm not sure if my previous message was sent here
10:16 < librecat> dirtweker: i had the same issue and couldnt really find a fix
10:17 < dirtweker> oh :(
10:18 < dirtweker> hope it's fixed one day i don't know if it's a coil whine thing
10:18 < librecat> it happens when your terminal scrolls right
10:18 < librecat> not all the time
10:18 < dirtweker> nah the sounds up all the time
10:18 < librecat> then its just coil whine from openbsd being a ticked kernel
10:19 < librecat> very specific i know
10:19 < librecat> but when i was playing with gentoo custom kernels and did no dynamic ticks i had this coil whine issue
10:19 < dirtweker> never heard of this much
10:19 < librecat> the issue i had on openbsd is literally crackling and eventually buffer overrun underrun and then crashing of mpv
10:20 < dirtweker> my arch system was aight, ty for letting me know
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10:20 < sonya> if setting $ /usr/bin/sndioctl output.mute=1  solves issue, then it could be used when no sound needed
10:20 < librecat> on my case i had it on linux but it could fix itself at time
10:20 < dirtweker> librecat: oof
10:20 < sonya> or # pkg_add cmixer --> and use it
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10:21 < librecat> sonya: i should get some logs of the sndio issue someday on latest -current ;)
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10:22 < sonya> there's and assumption that somehow power mode state/change of audiocard could be involved. in linux via /proc some folks disabled powersave, which prevents the card from sleep states
10:23 < sonya> how to manage the same here, on obsd, - no idea, if uefi/bios can't control it directly
10:23 < librecat> hmm if it helps it might be a good idea to disable it on openbsd at a driver level
10:24 < sonya> if silence without audio is o'k for you..
10:25 < sonya> 's/and\ assumption/an\ assumption/'^
10:25 < librecat> yes
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10:27 < dirtweker> sonya, thank you for the help, i'm using cmixer(i was going to thank you over here since the coil whine had gone away, but it was because i switched off output entirely), i've no idea here but 50% kinda gets the coil whine sound to go away
10:28 < librecat> nice
10:28 < sonya> np, don't mention..
10:28 < librecat> mention = ping = tag fyi
10:31 < dirtweker> hopefully it gets fixed one day, thank you both for helping :D
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13:01 < librecat> can i pass a physical disk to a vmm virtual machine?
13:01 < librecat> like /dev/rsd0
13:01 < sibiria> no
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13:02 < librecat> i wish i was elon musk and could pay a team of developers to make docker work on vmm lmao
13:02 < librecat> with native filesystem access
13:03 < librecat> i want to compile android rom for phones 
13:05 < andrath_> OpenBSD is not linux. Don't expect it to do linuxy things. 
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13:06 < librecat> andrath_: but im a spoiled entitled user expecting free software to market itself to me like propriatary software but not having to pay for it :D
13:06 < librecat> you get the joke right
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13:06 < andrath> Well, there's FreeBSD
13:07 < librecat> or even NetBSD
13:07 < librecat> oh i get your point
13:08 < librecat> why waste resources virtualizing linux when i can natively run it on a second ssd 
13:08 < andrath> indeed
13:08 < librecat> linux is linux and bsd is bsd
13:08 < librecat> its google's fault for making android not cross buildable from anything but glibc linux
13:08 < andrath> FreeBSD has jails, it actually does not need docker
13:09 < librecat> also FreeBSD is a Linux clone at this point
13:09 < andrath> not quite, but I can forgive thinking that
13:09 < librecat> well i clearly need linux compatibility
13:09 < librecat> so i should use freebsd
13:10 < librecat> not openbsd
13:10 < andrath> FreeBSD has a clear case of kitchen-sinkism
13:10 < librecat> i like the simple configuration of openbsd actually
13:10 < librecat> its wierd but it only took me one serious attempt to learn quite alot of configuration
13:10 < plasma> didnt NetBSD had linux compability too?
13:11 < andrath> same here, I was able to figure out how to create sysctls in a few hours
13:11 < andrath> without docs\
13:11 < librecat> i can remember how to make hostname.urndis0
13:11 < librecat> inet autoconf
13:11 < librecat> and then sh /etc/netstart
13:12 < sibiria> in days of yore, openbsd, too, had a linux compatibility layer
13:12 < andrath> I just looked at the code and was like oh, so that's how they do it. Some grepping and reading and I had a patch. Also, kernel builds in ~5 minutes
13:12 < sibiria> it was pretty useful
13:12 < librecat> 2 minutes for me for a kernel build
13:12 < librecat> all that power for android compilation 
13:12 < librecat> what a bloated mess that thing is
13:13 < librecat> so many giant libraries doing nothing
13:13 < sibiria> android is shit imo
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13:13 < andrath> sibiria: it probably wasn't maintained like bt and got nixed :P
13:13 < librecat> with samsung disabling bootloader unlock everwhere starting android 16 i want to slowly move to a normal cellphone
13:14 < librecat> smartphones have been nothing but pain for most of us
13:15 < andrath> oh, I found a useful envvar for ccache, if you set CCACHE_COMPILERCHECK to content, it does not fingerprint the compiler so your ccache does not invalidate
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13:15 < ivdsangen> sibiria: was openbsd linux compatibility ever useful for you? i recall i had problems running stuff with it
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13:17 < oldlaptop> It was i386-specific, which did not help at all later on.
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13:19 < andrath> the only thing I really miss on OpenBSD is some sort of volume management so I can grow/shrink filesystems.
13:20 < oldlaptop> now what would be the major usecases today? I would expect the two most common questions in here to be "how to install steam?" and "how to install docker?"
13:20 < pardis> what would be the point today? we have vmd(8), which works about 100 times better than the Linux binary compat ever did
13:21 < pardis> and has zero maintenance cost for the Linux APIs
13:21 < sibiria> ivdsangen: i found it useful, yes, and never had problems with it for the things i ran
13:21 < oldlaptop> That's certainly the conclusion Microsoft came to.
13:21 < oldlaptop> (or the corresponding conclusion)
13:22 < andrath> If I want to game, I either boot into Linux, or grab my steamdeck.
13:22 < sibiria> ivdsangen: i ran folding@home, and hosted a counter-strike server for local lamers, among other things
13:22 < sibiria> ran well for many years
13:23 < pardis> the only advantage I can see to Linux binary compat is that it could work with any CPU, but in practical terms requiring an i386 CPU is a more onerous restriction than requiring AMD-V/VT-x
13:23 < oldlaptop> (the original "WSL" was conceptually pretty much the same thing as the old COMPAT_LINUX, or the corresponding feature in freebsd - support in their kernel for linux's syscall ABI. Microsoft gave up on that, and now "WSL2" is just linux on hyper-v with some hokey filesystem passthrough stuff.)
13:23 < pardis> or an i386 kernel, I should say
13:23 < ivdsangen> okay, i dont really recall what i tried to run back then, but glad counter-strike servers ran under linux emulation :)
13:24 < oldlaptop> pardis: how many people are there left (other than me) who care about core2 and such? :|
13:24 < librecat> me actually lol
13:24 < librecat> i got one for gnuboot and failed to repair the capacitors
13:24 < librecat> its too slow to be enjoyable and fun
13:24 < librecat> but certainly still usable
13:25 < oldlaptop> sibiria: notably neither of those needs fancy-pants 3D graphics or wacky cgroup tricks or anything
13:26 < sibiria> correct. but that's besides the point. back in those days the compat layer solved a problem for me, and it solved it without hiccups
13:26 < pardis> I tried using Linux emulation circa 2015, I think
13:26 < pardis> by then it was useless for anything modern because it was emulating a years-old kernel
13:26 < pardis> I'm sure it worked better in its heyday
13:26 < librecat> how useful would it be vs how much effort would it be
13:26 < librecat> that is the question
13:26 < sibiria> i ran the compat layer during latter half of the 2000s
13:27 < oldlaptop> linux 20 years ago was a fair bit easier to imitate, when the weird fancy stuff was either nonexistent or too new to be widely used
13:27 < librecat> hmm right
13:29 < oldlaptop> openbsd/i386 had a procfs around that time too, that was IIRC pretty emblematic - even though procfs is (within linux circles) treated as the legacy interface (you're supposed to dig fifteen levels deep somewhere in /sys documented only in a git commit message instead), procfs as of removal was sufficiently out of sync with linux that as far as I can recall stuff that expected linux procfs didn't actually work anyway
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13:34 < IcePic> oldlaptop: I think irix and sunos also had something like /proc but also different
13:35 < andrath> Solaris too eventually
13:36 < IcePic> yes, meant that
13:36 < andrath> SunOS probably not, I wish they never went SysV actually
13:36 < IcePic> can't remember if the bsd-style <5 sunos had it or not, but sunos 5.x did
13:36 < humm> it first appeared in (I believe) v8 Unix
13:37 < oldlaptop> that raises, as a serious question, whether it was independent invention everywhere else
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13:37 < oldlaptop> (seeing as how widely post-v7 research unix wasn't spread)
13:37 < oldlaptop> s/as//
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13:38 < humm> maybe it spread thence to System V, as Streams did
13:38 < humm> idk
13:38 < pardis> I think Linux copied the idea from Plan 9
13:38  * oldlaptop thought STREAMS meant something different when shouted, or something
13:38 < humm> System V made it shout
13:38 < andrath> STREAMS was a competitor to BSD sockets, but it never took off
13:38 < oldlaptop> pardis: So it did come from research (not) Unix after all? :)
13:39 < pardis> but Linux's procfs broke compat with Plan 9 procfs, so really it's compat breakage all the way down
13:39 < humm> oldlaptop, nah, Unix had it first, Plan 9 later on had it from its beginning
13:40 < andrath> I thinnk Stephens has a bit about it in his network programming book, I never touched the stuff. BSD sockets are easier to understand. 
13:40 < oldlaptop> (Joke Explainer mode: plan 9 as a continuation of research unix)
13:40 < pardis> a fun feature of Plan 9's procfs is you can bind /net/tcp to /proc and use ps to view your network connections
13:40 < humm> hah
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13:41 < andrath> I believe plan9 is still being actively developed as a fork
13:41 < humm> yes https://9front.org/
13:41 < andrath> "Only five remote holes in the default install, in a heck of a long time!" <-- ha!
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14:09 < andrath> sonya: I think I cracked the building world/kernel/xenocara thing with ccache. I have a buildenv.sh that one can source and it will set up ccache symlinks and a ccache dir for you to store cache objects in. I'll share it in a pastebin somewhere if you want it.
14:11 < sonya> andrath, thank you, though i'm happy with -stable
14:11 < andrath> fair enough :)
14:12 < TommyC> Eh? I thought ccache did the storing of cached objects by itself, no?
14:12 < sonya> andrath, in /etc/login.conf for build/_pbuild set PATH and check, or smth like that
14:12 < andrath> TommyC: normally in ~/.ccache, yes, but because the build system likes to build als 'build', that doesn't always fly
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14:15 < andrath> https://termbin.com/n6gt <-- sourceable script, do with it what you will
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14:16 < sonya> andrath, thanks a lot!
14:19 < thrig> mkdir -p ... || exit 1
14:22 < TommyC> I would also add the end of options option because I'm a stuck up bitch like that.
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15:25 < brutex> how can i increase size of /usr dir i am with 400GB with default space of (O)penBSD size OpenBSD type partition?
15:25 < brutex> but /usr is too small i can't install many packages
15:25 < brutex> without fdisk
15:26 < mischief> reinstall
15:26 < humm> packages are installed to /usr/local, not /usr
15:26 < brutex> i know
15:27 < brutex> i just have reinstall without now
15:27 < sibiria> you can increase it with growfs, but only if there is empty free space directly "behind" it. else you will need to migrate the partition
15:27 < brutex> i mean i want from command prompt
15:27 < brutex> console
15:27 < jrmu> you can try deleting /usr/src and /usr/obj and seeing if you can expand /usr/local into that new space
15:27 < jrmu> with growfs
15:27 < jrmu> provided there's nothing of value in /usr/src and /usr/obj
15:27 < brutex> what is a command?
15:27 < humm> depends on your current layout whether you can easily move file systems around and grow them
15:28 < brutex> jrmu: with dd?
15:28 < humm> a command is a string given to the shell that the shell interprets and executes
15:28 < jrmu> brutex: https://wiki.ircnow.org/index.php?n=Openbsd.Growfs
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15:28 < brutex> with dd is impossible?
15:29 < humm> dd copies data around; dd can be useful here
15:29 < brutex> then how with dd
15:29 < humm> for example, you can copy a file system to a different partition
15:29 < brutex> i have linux
15:29 < brutex> on other partition
15:30 < brutex> sd3 or sd4
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15:33 < librecat> uaudio5: failed to get ranges for level control uaudio5: only one clock domain supported
15:33 < librecat> alc4080
15:36 < librecat> same for all uaudio* devices
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