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08:25 < flying_rabbit_> hi channel! i am using openbsd on hetzner servers (a german cloud provider). they do not provide openbsd images, so i run a "rescue system" (a small live mini linux) on the server, dd the openbsd installer to its disk and reboot it, then use a virtual / KVM console to go through the installer. the result is a working openbsd. 
08:26 < IcePic> yes, that is how one has to do it if there is no image support
08:26 < flying_rabbit_> now i want many openbsd servers. is it "ok" if i just snapshot one finished installed server and create multiple servers from it? (hetzner uses dhcp so network wise its not an issue). I know that for example debian has a /etc/hostid, which would then be identical. if i know these files / things i can fix them after creating an instance. my main question is would doing that with openbsd pose a security risk somehow?
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08:27 < IcePic> you should clean out all isakmpd/iked/ssh keys, so they make new ones at first boot
08:28 < flying_rabbit_> i see, ok. thats what i assumed, just wanted to ask to be paranoid
08:28 < IcePic> check /etc/rc script at line 129 on which keys it creates if missing
08:29 < flying_rabbit_> :thumbsup:
08:29 < IcePic> apart from that, the new instances will relink kernel and libs to become different from the original
08:30 < IcePic> I think if you have dbus installed as a port, it might want to have a file /etc/machine-id or whatsitscalled, but apart from that I can't think of anything right now that needs handling
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09:09 < slightly> I think Hetzner has an OpenBSD image, you just need to install linux first, then go to reinstall and select OpenBSD from there.
09:10 < sibiria> you can also install by heading into their rescue mode and simply writing the openbsd install kernel onto the disc, and reboot, then head into the web console and take it from there
09:10 < sibiria> skipping the whole linux step
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09:11 < CosmicDJ> or you just use a https://openbsd.amsterdam VPS :)
09:11 < sibiria> install kernel / full install image, whichever you prefer
09:14 < sibiria> CosmicDJ: but hetzner offers arm64, the future!
09:15 < sibiria> arm64 = the west, mike'n'suzy, the future, etc.
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09:19 < flying_rabbit_> @slightly you mean via the rescue system? installimage? if so i havent seen it, will check. its not selectable from the list of images to "spawn" new cloud servers with i think.
09:19 < flying_rabbit_> @sibiria thats what i'm doing so far to get one openbsd, yes
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09:32 < IcePic> I think I would feel better if I supplied the ISO/installer than the hoster
09:33 < sibiria> i'd also curl->dd it
09:33 < sibiria> not that i don't trust hetzner, but, principles
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09:54 < flying_rabbit_> @sibiria yeah thats what i'm doing. my actual question was if i can snapshot the result of curl | dd the installer, install, snapshot and then use that snapshot to spawn multiple openbsd's - i'm sure it works, my question was just "what to look out for" past that point
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09:56 < sibiria> flying_rabbit_: you can snapshot the ready-to-install portion of the VPS' storage, or the completed base install if you want that, and reuse it
09:56 < flying_rabbit_> the completed base install, yes
09:56 < flying_rabbit_> that was my idea
09:56 < sibiria> power it down, go back into the rescue mode and just dump the disk to an image
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10:03 < flying_rabbit_> yeah, you can snapshot and then create new volumes from that (i think). sth along the lines of this
10:04 < flying_rabbit_> the real question is to about what to do when booting such an image / snapshot, but that was answered above
10:04 < sibiria> it'll boot up just as it would after install
10:05 < sibiria> when your install is completed and the openbsd installer asks you to press a key to reboot, you may just shut down and image the server
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10:33 < radhitya> flying_rabbit_: congrats
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10:49 < naoki> Is there a way to view the device tree on a device running OpenBSD/arm64?
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10:51 < naoki> https://gist.github.com/RadxaNaoki/0014316ea777d5e8916e4dcc143bb36c two of Cortex-A76 cores should not be available on RK3582
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11:06 < brynet> naoki: does it not work? 
11:07 < brynet> maybe your board has a RK3588S2
11:08 < sibiria> i have a Radxa Zero 3E i wish i could get to work stable on openbsd. it only works with the SP kernel. with the MP kernel openbsd misbehaves in various ways sporadically
11:08 < sibiria> nice little board
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11:28 < naoki> brynet: It's RK3582. It works, but enabling all cores is not what is intended.
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11:33 < brynet> naoki: send a mail to arm@ is probably your best option, then.
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13:37 < mrbubzie> Has anyone ever tried compiling xf86-video-nouveau?
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13:37 < mrbubzie> For nvidia chips…pkgsrc from NetBSD is compatible with there ports and they have nouveau for a port
13:38 < pardis> the userland part of nouveau would be quite useless on its own
13:38 < mrbubzie> Ahh ok
13:38 < mrbubzie> I though xenocara was x11
13:38 < pardis> it is
13:39 < IcePic> it is x11, but the problem is that each accelerated drivers needs/wants the kernel to act like it was linux
13:39 < mrbubzie> So with base xenocara and the xf86 driver wouldn’t work together
13:40 < IcePic> the hard part is not being x11, the hard part is what security you have to compromise on in order to make stuff work. I think many drivers did want to have x11 run as root, giving access to huge areas of PCI space just to make it "easy" on the driver to talk to the gfx card
13:41 < mrbubzie> But your saying looking pay security would be possible to use compile there driver
13:41 < mrbubzie> Granted it compiles
13:41 < mrbubzie> Looking beyond*
13:42 < pardis> it might compile, and if you want a useless .so file lying around on your disk, you can feel free to try
13:43 < mrbubzie> So if xenocara is x11 and its the core why would the nouveau driver work
13:43 < mrbubzie> Is it the userland is not designed to use it
13:43 < pardis> as has already been said, there is a kernel component too
13:43 < mrbubzie> Oh ok
13:44 < mrbubzie> Sorry I’m coming from Arch so this stuff is all new lol
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13:45 < IcePic> once upon a time it was simple, the gfx card had a image buffer, and you "painted" bytes in it and pixels appeared. Nowadays it is not that simple any more, now you might have gfx cards that want to move textures back and forth between gfx ram and computer ram, so in order for that to work, you would need to allow gfx hardware to "paint" into computer ram, which in turn could possibly be used to overwrite 
13:46 < IcePic> not-your-memory and cause insecurity. If that was the case (or something similar to it), then it is not likely that obsd would want to support such a card, and have a /dev/xf86 device that in turn lets the gfx hw poke around with DMA into ram
13:47 < IcePic> same as firewire could let the remote device DMA into computer ram. That was also not enabled on obsd but on other OSes (because you can debug nicely on a second computer)
13:47 < IcePic> some people choose convenience over security, but obsd seldom does that
13:48 < mrbubzie> Has anyone had any success with any nvidia implantation or port
13:48 < mrbubzie> Outside of FreeBSD
13:48 < mrbubzie> Ports and package system I mean
13:49 < IcePic> I dont understand that question
13:49 < mrbubzie> Has anyone had any success with anything beyond fb with nvidia chips
13:50 < IcePic> not on openbsd
13:50 < IcePic> we do not get nvidia blobs pre-compiled for obsd, so its mostly a non-starter
13:50 < IcePic> nvidia does not think producing docs is relevant either, so no matter how much you want to, you could not write a decent driver anyhow
13:51 < mrbubzie> I mean could they be compiled if you build from source
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13:51 < mrbubzie> With the nvidia blobs
13:53 < IcePic> not sure how to say it, but you would have to pretend to a large amount that you are linux by faking include files to hold things nvidia code looks for on linux systems) and then the compiler would be happy, but the defines that you used would not point to useful entry points for talking to the actual hw on obsd, so it would never work, even if you can make the compiler happy
13:55 < IcePic> lets say linux allows acceleration and things by having a driver poke at address 15, writing "OK_TO_RUN_TOTALLY_INSECURE" value to it. Then nvidia would poke this, gain access to lots of operations and then it would work fine on linux. On OpenBSD, you would not have this knob, so first attempt to compile would fail, since nothing with that name and value exists
13:55 < thrig> or it possibly could work, at the risk of you going insane and the patches being rejected
13:55 < mrbubzie> Anyone use the plasma desktop?
13:55 < IcePic> you would define it to something, and the compiler would be happy and let the thing compile, but it would not work 
13:57 < sibiria> i used plasma 5 on linux once. i got butt cancer from how crap it was, and then my butt fell off
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13:58 < sibiria> big thanks to whatever lunatic decided it was a good idea to work on redesigning plasma 5 while suffering from a stroke
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16:43 < elarks> Plasma is my goto DE, unless I run *BSD
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16:48 < Bradipo> I don't use DE.
16:48 < Bradipo> Too much hassle for what you get.
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18:00 < ssm__> something something DEs nuts
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18:04 < ssm__> Some basic features (parts of process viewer) of Plasma require systemd, so it's not a seamless experience outside of corpolinux unfortunately. Don't know about guhnome and xfce, but CDE is ported again!
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18:07 < Bradipo> Yeah, I'll be sure to give CDE a try, just to remind me of the "good 'ole days".
18:07 < ssm__> CDE has very reasonable dependencies if you check its signature, compared to... any other DE and even some larger WMs
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18:14 < ssm__> question: other than just being a relic of old multihead networks, have any of you (or know anyone) who have found a usecase for user expiration?
18:23 < sibiria> olde shell accounts, pay-per-month
18:23 < ssm__> sdf?
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18:28 < jonadab> I use a hybrid DE made of sawfish, mate-panel, and konsole.
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18:30 < jonadab> The last time I used KDE on anything resembling a regular basis, its window manager was called kwm.
18:31 < MelMalik> one of these days I'm likely to end up writing most of a DE in Tcl/Tk
18:31  * jonadab shudders
18:31 < MelMalik> ssm_, this could probably be ported
18:31 < MelMalik> if by ported you mean, dramatic code modifications
18:32 < jonadab> I think the lightest-weight WM that I've ever used was probably either twm or ratpoison.  Not sure which is lighter.
18:32 < Bradipo> twm is still in base I think.
18:32 < Bradipo> I prefer to use fvwm from base though.
18:33 < jonadab> (Ratpoison was specifically designed to be light, all windows are always full-screen.  twm is just old, and everything had to be lightweight back then, because computers had potato amounts of RAM.)
18:33 < Bradipo> I haven't tried ratpoison.
18:33 < jonadab> Not sure if it's still maintained, I think ionws has mostly supplanted it.
18:33 < jonadab> Err, ionwm.
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20:55 < visl> long shot, but does anyone happen to use the aws terraform provider on openbsd and if so, any tips on getting it to work? i get a "cannot allocate memory error"  it looks like it may have to do with how the terraform binary forks the provider plugin binary.
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20:59 < phy1729> I thought hashicorp stopped building for OpenBSD ages ago
21:00 < visl> they reenabled them a couple years ago
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21:08 < phy1729> Don't have a project using AWS, my GCP one is pre 0.13 (should fix that), and the github one doesn't have an OpenBSD version in the registry (so I compile it locally)
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21:12 < visl> there is an aws one in the registry and i've also tried to compile it myself using the instructions out of the terraform package readme and it gives the same error
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21:17 < phy1729> Dear Cthulhu the ktrace.out for tf plan on an empty project just requiring the aws provider is 800M
21:18 < mischief> how many of those are futex and clock_gettime
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 04 00:00:35 2025