--- Log opened Fri Sep 26 00:00:05 2025
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00:51 < ssm_> I bulk build with dpb -R a lot, is there a utility in ports to clear out old packages?
00:51 < ssm_> I could just find -mtime but I wasn't writing any dates down, and maybe some old packages don't need to be replaced (whole point -R as far as I can tell)
00:53 < thrig> pkg_delete -a  will toss deps of non-direct installs
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01:01 < ssm_> nah it's not installed packages I want to uninstall. it's the old tgz package files in my packages repository. should have mentioned I'm building in a chroot created by proot(1) (which is recommended as per documentations with dpb -R, since you'll want to pkg_delete -X inside the chroot before every build)
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01:06 < slartiblarfast> ahoy o/
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04:32 < radhitya> slartiblarfazt: o/
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05:42 < jibsaramnim> hi everyone
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11:52 < vortexx> ssm_: if you have pub/OpenBSD/$release/packages/$yourarch as a repo for your packages, you could add pub/OpenBSD/$release/packages-stable/$yourarch to it perhaps and dump all new packages in that? then run some check script to see if the package exists in both and delete in packages/$yourarch ?
11:52 < vortexx> (could be added to the end of your package signing script if you have one)
11:53 < vortexx> could even delete the package that's already in packages-stable/$yourarch if already exists
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11:56 < vortexx> not seeing anything in ports that'll handle all this. It would be useful for ports that get updated often (and are big) like php, curl and firefox/chromium/thunderbird
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12:45 < vortexx> sibiria: you don't have a tool for that for the mirror do you? Or do you keep all versions of a package even if it got a -stable update?
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12:49 < sibiria> the only place i build ports on i actually clean out the one version i have before i install the new build. it's pretty manual and i get by only because i build few and small ports there
12:52 < sibiria> that would be on the few arm64 systems i have that can live with being "offline". for amd64 i just run stable packages/updates
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15:31 < uwharrie_> I've had success comparing a directory listing of distfiles/ and packages/ vs the listings in databases/sqlports to decide what can get deleted
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21:24 < Minall> Hello OpenBSD Community, I have recently installed OpenBSD and Firefox (so fresh installed). At one point I had to upload a file which I added to my ~/Downloads. Now, the file manager didn't open on it, so I though I had no access (turned out I had), and after investigating and finding out that firefox uses unveil, seeing its configuration and seeing that I did had read access, I went to the file manager and added the route and worked.
21:25 < Bradipo> Is there a question in there?
21:25 < Minall> My question regarding the above is, if there was a better way for me to find out the firefox unveil part, or OpenBSD specifics, I tried the man page, and also the pkg_info, but didn't had much info. Perhaps in its package file directory ? 
21:25 < Minall> Yes Bradipo  hehe, was writing it
21:25 < Bradipo> Haha, yes, I see now.
21:26 < Minall> So I'm basically wondering if there was a better way for me to understand my OpenBSD system aside from seeing this info over the internet
21:26 < Minall> As in was there a way I could find out with the system itself, documentation and so on
21:27 < Bradipo> There is the pkg-readme.
21:27 < Minall> It would help me get accustomed to the reading the manual way (I'm still checking closely afterboot and others, but the good thing is that the system seems to be minimal and just works, so perhaps it is not about having 100 things, but having one very stable and secure thing)
21:27 < Bradipo> Have a look at /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes/firefox
21:27 < Minall> Bradipo: I see... Every package has this?, I read the FAQ, but perhaps I am missing another package manager manual I should read more closely, in order to know about pkg-readmes?
21:28 < Bradipo> It's possible that pkg-readmes isn't very well documented.
21:28 < Minall> Bradipo: On it!
21:28 < Bradipo> Did you look at the various pkg man pages?
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21:28 < Bradipo> afterboot does mention packages.
21:28 < Minall> Oh, so I haven't got to that park, my bad (I'm reading documentation still, today I focused on the FAQ)
21:29 < Bradipo> And afterboot is a good place to start, but I wonder if it would have eventually brought you to discover pkg-readmes.
21:29 < Bradipo> FAQ should mention it too I would hope.
21:29 < Bradipo> At the very least document that packages have readmes in /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes
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21:29 < Minall> I only see one mention:  - Additionally, some packages provide configuration and other information in a file located in /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes. -
21:30 < Bradipo> Where do you see that?
21:30 < Minall> Which does count lol. https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html <- In Installing Packages below the pkg_add jove example
21:30 < Bradipo> Well, there you go.
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21:31 < Bradipo> OpenBSD is generally well documented, but there are sometimes gaps.
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21:33 < Minall> That's alright, this is what I was wanting to see. Seems to have a lot of interesting information
21:33 < Minall> Appreciate it Bradipo 
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21:59 < Minall> So OpenBSD includes OpenSMTP to send mails, now, as I understand this is only for sending mail... what about Obtaining it?, like IMAPs... Is there something else included or do I have to install another way, something like dovecot?
21:59 < Minall> (Correct me if I'm wrong)
22:00 < uwharrie_> no
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22:00 < uwharrie_> dovecot doesn't retrieve email, you'd need something like fetchmail, getmail, imapsync/mbsync, etc
22:01 < Minall> uwharrie_: Just found weid that it has its own Sending mail, but not sending mail
22:01 < Minall> Or is there one included already in OpenBSD for this?
22:02 < uwharrie_> no there isn't, and not sure what's so weird about that
22:03 < Minall> uwharrie_: I mean, if you want to use mail you don't have to send it only, but also receive it
22:03 < uwharrie_> smtpd does both
22:04 < Minall> Oh cool!
22:04 < Minall> Then Imap is not needed. Better then. I'll take a look to configure it
22:04 < Bradipo> smtpd can be used to send and receive email via SMTP.
22:05 < Bradipo> When email arrives inbound it can be delivered to a user based upon email address routing.
22:05 < Bradipo> IMAP is for accessing a mailbox.
22:05 < Bradipo> If you just want to read email on the command line using mailx then you wouldn't need anything like dovecot for IMAP.
22:07 < Minall> Thank you for the explanation, I'll be looking forward to see this
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22:12 < Bradipo> Is there a tool that will help figure out which process is hammering I/O?
22:12 < Bradipo> systat?
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22:14 < Bradipo> top?
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22:18 < Minall> Perhaps iostat -w 2
22:18 < Bradipo> I don't need to see how much I/O there is.  I know that already.  What I need to know is which process is responsible for the I/O.
22:19 < radhitya> Minall: dovecot
22:21 < uwharrie_> dovecot neither sends nor receives email
22:22 < IcePic> uwharrie_: I think it might be a matter of definition
22:23 < IcePic> from the mail admin perspective it doesnt send mails, but from the mail-reader user it sends them to you
22:23 < setient> yup
22:24 < Minall> Bradipo: I often use the task manager on my DE (XFCE) <- THe only command that I know does that is well, top
22:24 < Minall> Isn't top enough in your case?
22:24 < Bradipo> dovecot doesn't send anything.  dovecot allows the client to retrieve emails.
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22:24 < Bradipo> top might work if it can sort by I/O usage.
22:25 < Bradipo> None of the default columns show I/O usage.  E.g. it would be nice if I could sort by bytes/second or something.
22:26 < IcePic> someone needs to port over "iotop"
22:27 < IcePic> though it will probably take a lot of work to expose certain numbers so iotop can consume them
22:27 < IcePic> probably very linuxcentric and/or based off reading stuff out of /proc
22:27 < polarian> IcePic: isnt it sleepy time for eurobsdcon tomorrow :)
22:28 < Bradipo> eurobsdcon is tomorrow?
22:29 < polarian> Yup :)
22:29 < IcePic> Bradipo: its ongoing, tutorials were thu/fri, main conf tomorrow and sunday
22:29 < polarian> Well the conf section
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22:30 < IcePic> fstat seems to be able to collect XFERS and KBYTES and PID on a per-filedesc basis, so if one sums all io for one PID, you would see which pid is doing the most
22:31 < Bradipo> Interesting, I don't think I've seen XFERS and KBYTES before with fstat.  Not in the default view I guess.
22:32 < Bradipo> Need -s apparently.
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22:35 < Minall> I'm trying to screen share (google meets), now, when pressing screen sharing, it crashes my firefox. From the README: Screen sharing needs shmget() which isn't available when pledge() is active, so
22:35 < Minall> you will have to disable pledge for the main process. <- Which I'm not sure how to do, is it an environment variable?, or any command I can call in order to open one instance that has screen sharing enabled
22:35 < Bradipo> I believe that's in the pkg-readme...
22:35 < IcePic> Bradipo: also needs root, unless you think it is your pids
22:36 < Bradipo> I'm pretty sure it's one of my pids.
22:36 < Minall> Bradipo: Yes, it is on the pkg-readme, now it doens't mention how to unpledge it temporarily in order to allow screen sharing
22:37 < Bradipo> Interesting, right.
22:37 < Bradipo> I wonder why it doesn't mention how.
22:37 < Minall> Me too hehe
22:38 < Bradipo> Oh it does, you just have to read it.
22:38 < Bradipo> Have you read the pkg-readme yet?
22:38 < Bradipo> It's in there.
22:38 < Minall> Yes, I'm currently reading /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes/firefod
22:38 < Minall> After the chown youruser /dev/video? <- Which successfully allowed my video
22:39 < Minall> I see: Screen sharing needs shmget() which isn't available when pledge() is active, so
22:39 < Minall> you will have to disable pledge for the main process.
22:39 < IcePic> Bradipo: not super good, but might help => fstat -s|awk '{print $2 " " $10 " " $11}'|egrep "^[a-z]* [0-9]+ [0-9]+"
22:39 < Minall> Yet doesn't mention how to achieve this <- Better if temporarily since I don't want to screen share all the time, just have the possibility
22:39 < Bradipo> Minall: Read the entire pkg-readme. :-)
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22:41 < Minall> Oh: To disable pledge and/or unveil support when troubleshooting, set the corresponding pledge or unveil file in /etc/firefox/{unveil,pledge}.{main,content,gpu} to contain just "disable". <- You mean this?
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22:42 < Minall> There are a lot of files in /etc/firefox... So I should set all of them to disable?, or just gpu? <- And this I would only want to do temporarily when I do need to screen share, I wouldn't like to run it unpledged all the time...
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22:43 < Bradipo> Didn't it say "main process"?
22:43 < Bradipo> I presume that means the pledge.main
22:44 < shwouchk> Hello
22:46 < Minall> Wow, I do need to be very precise (something good). That wasn't obvious for me
22:46 < Bradipo> In general, it isn't desirable to disable plege...
22:46 < shwouchk> I'm running linux locally. My terminals are set to send meta-key as esc-key. when I ssh into an openbsd system various terminal programs do see esc-key but it is not accepted as meta-key. What can I do as a non-root user to fix this? I don't mind changing local terminal settings for this connection
22:47 < Minall> Bradipo: It works. Of course then I just added what already was to this file as to run it pledged again. <- I may automate this for simplicity
22:47 < Minall> Bradipo: Yeah, just when I do have to sadly screen share in a meeting, I can open a firefox without pledge and do that only, then pledge again
22:48 < Minall> Thank you for your help again Bradipo :D <- I'm learning a lot about this system
22:48 < Bradipo> Or you could try chromium.
22:48 < Riviera> shwouchk: this sounds contradictory? your meta sends escape, but when you login via ssh you want not the meta key to be something, but the esc key?
22:48 < Bradipo> And only use chromium when you need to "screen share".
22:49 < Minall> Bradipo: Or that, thank you for this option. I'll probably go to it
22:49 < shwouchk> showkey -a on linux shows hex x1b <hex for ascii key>. on openbsd it shows <ESC><keyname> (though that could just be a difference in the showkey binary). But fish_key_reader shoes alt-<key> locally but \e<key> remotely
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22:50 < shwouchk> Riviera: I want terminal programs that accept M-<key> bindings to accept my keypresses on openbsd
22:51 < Bradipo> Yes, Escape is 0x1b or \033 (octal).
22:51 < shwouchk> I know
22:51 < Bradipo> And you think that when you SSH to OpenBSD from Linux and then press Escape that the 0x1b isn't being sent as 0x1b?
22:52 < Riviera> Bradipo: In what shwouchk describes the escape key itself is never pressed, it's always some alt-sequence.
22:53 < shwouchk> I think that when I press alt+<key> somewhere along the way something gets misinterpreted and stuff doesn't recognize it as such
22:53 < Riviera> shwouchk: From what you said, your setup (local terminals, and ssh) all seems fine.
22:53 < shwouchk> But actually, I suddenly am feeling horrified about misinterpreting the situation. let me verify again that it's not just this one program
22:53 < Riviera> shwouchk: When you press alt-somekey it's being send both locally and remote as escape-somekey to the applications running in the terminal.
22:54 < Riviera> shwouchk: There might be reasons for that then remotely not working, when really meta is expected as doing bit-manipulations, but that's actually a bit unlikely.
22:55 < Riviera> sorry for all the typos.
22:55 < thrig> linux does tend to get backspace and delete mussed up (a large reason why I'm on openbsd) but that's not meta
22:55 < Minall> Thanks for your help in my questions, kudos to Bradipo, have to go. bye bye
22:55 < Minall> !
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 27 00:00:06 2025