--- Log opened Mon Sep 29 00:00:09 2025
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03:17 < usagi_mimi> greetings is the yt-dlp port maintainer around?
03:23 < usagi_mimi> The reason I ask is recently yt-dlp is broken for its main use. I'm curious if I should attempt to install it with curl or wait for a package update since it's supposed to be pulling in a new js engine. 
03:23 < phy1729> ports/www/yt-dlp% make show=MAINTAINER    The OpenBSD ports mailing-list <ports@openbsd.org>
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03:26 < usagi_mimi> never mind https://openports.pl/path/lang/deno it requires Rust I guess I'll just do without it going forward
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03:30 < byteskeptical> I posted the last update to the yt-dlp port but not the maintainer
03:31 < byteskeptical> yes deno is required unfortunately now that google has upted the anty on the js challenges
03:32 < byteskeptical> you will be able go without it for some time but how long is unclear
03:36 < usagi_mimi> Will have to go without forever if they use deno for that considering Rust stuff will not build or run on those systems I was using it on
03:37 < usagi_mimi> Hopefully someone forks and figures out a way to by-pass what they're doing without requiring Rust
03:38 < usagi_mimi> Do you happen to know why the spell checker in Firefox works intermittently? It will randomly work some days and other times it won't. 
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03:48 < usagi_mimi> Ah for some reason en-US mozilla-dict isn't in ports. I pointed it to /usr/share/local/aspell and it started working again
03:55 < oldlaptop> (you do know Firefox is not just Rust stuff, but the *original* Rust stuff?)
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04:13 < usagi_mimi> I know but chrome is worse
04:13 < usagi_mimi> I'd get rid of Firefox if I could but I don't really have a choice do I?
04:13 < byteskeptical> usagi_mimi: that works, yeah I don't think anyone likes it just a necessity. Probably not going to be bypass-able without a js runtime which is why deno was chosen.
04:18 < usagi_mimi> surely there is one that doesn't leave old systems behind? Maybe someone will fork it to keep them going. I hope so anyway.
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04:33 < usagi_mimi> yay it's officially a month since I got the old grandfather clock running again according to the moon dial
04:34 < usagi_mimi> maybe in another month I'll finally get it dialed in so it isn't running too fast or two slow over the course of a week
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06:04 < mischief> good time to be more vocal to your favorite youtube channels about using a more free platform
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14:04 < lil_lasagna> anyone using emacs? how is the performance?
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14:18 < oldlaptop> Yes, someone is using emacs. The days when it was capable of eventually munching all computer storage have presumably passed.
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14:20 < Minall> I am using Emacs, performance is alright lil_lasagna... Are you looking for something else specifically?
14:21 < oldlaptop> Perhaps somebody has even written a decent editor for it by now.
14:22 < lil_lasagna> Minall: nope, just curious. I love exploring new editors but I daily-drive very old hardware so I always thought emacs would run poorly
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14:27 < Minall> lil_lasagna: Emacs is performant, yet you can't compare it to VIM, which is minimal. Emacs is its own application and has a lot behind
14:27 < Minall> For me it is performant enough, and I use it daily for any type of work, now, Vim is just next to fast, now, if you start adding plugins... idk.
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14:32  * oldlaptop doubts you will find much hardware OpenBSD still runs on that can't run emacs
14:33 < oldlaptop> (vim is, in fact, the emacs of vi-s, but never mind that for now)
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14:43 < thrig> emacs had good startup times (unlike vim and really unlike neovim) with the client server thingy (vi has really good startup times)
14:43 < thrig> I did have to kill -9 emacs whilst benchmarking as at one point it got wedged trying to run automatic updates
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15:20 < humm> nobody tell thrig about vim --remote
15:23 < eea> what is an emacs?
15:23 < eea> :q!
15:23 < eea> lol
15:25 < sibiria> :insaneclownposse!
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15:26 < jmcunx> I will need to test again, but if I use vi(1) on a very large file, it starts quickly.  vim, takes a long time.  I think vim loads the whole file in memory.
15:27 < jmcunx> not sure about emacs on very large files, will check that too
15:29 < user71> UNIX's kernel was written with ed. Mr Torvalds used MicroEMACS for linux. Did BSD programmers use nvi?
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15:31 < jmcunx> I would say the 'real vi', nvi came about due to a lawsuit from AT&T.  
15:31 < jmcunx> but in effect nvi = vi
15:32 < jmcunx> maybe ed(1) to
15:32 < humm> the BSD people too started with ed
15:32 < humm> after all, BSD existed before ex
15:33 < jmcunx> see man vi, "HISTORY" section :)
15:33 < Bradipo> jmcunx: vi does exhibit some slowness for large files if your disk is slow because of the recovery file that it makes.
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15:35 < jmcunx> I do not doubt that, I forgot why I ran across that, but iw was a work support problem years ago
15:35 < jmcunx> iw = it
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15:37 < Bradipo> But the slowness isn't vi, it's the disk.
15:42 < vortexx> looks like we're in for a php default version update with migration implications with the release of 7.8. Time to read that pkg-readme again
15:49 < lil_lasagna> there is no way that emacs users find moving around with ctrl-b, ctrl-f ergonomic
15:49 < lil_lasagna> I refuse to think that
15:49 < humm> you get used to it
15:50 < IcePic> yeah, as an emacs (and mg) user since the 90s, I've made peace with using ctrl-b less because tmux
15:51 < humm> and, same as with vi: you use C-b and C-f only a little; there are other ways to move around
15:51 < humm> you search, you move by words
15:51 < IcePic> I think I ctrl-a more to get to the beginning of a line than single-stepping backwards and not using crsr-left
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15:56 < thrig> chording in emacs hurt my tendons so I dropped emacs some decade ago
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16:00 < IcePic> thrig: we still like you, just a slight bit less
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16:13 < quinq> thrig, a decade ago, surely tendons have healed, I think that your excuse isn't valable anymore and you have to get back to emacs
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16:14 < quinq> Will be reviewed next Monday before the control committee
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16:14 < sibiria> control committee uses nano. are they fit for purpose?
16:14 < sibiria> emacs is dead. long live nano.
16:15 < Bradipo> I cannot stand nano.  I would rather use emacs than nano.
16:15 < quinq> Wow, you hate it that much
16:16 < sibiria> what i love about nano is that it lets you type text without having juggle incoherent instructions first
16:16 < Bradipo> Is there command line equivalent to xedit? :-)
16:16 < sibiria> lets you quit without vulcan death grip, copy/paste without 1-finger death punc
16:17 < thrig> nope, tendons still bad, and getting worse
16:18 < sibiria> extra protein, collagen in particular, and some hand-based calistheninjanics
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16:21 < quinq> jaja @vulcan-death-grip
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16:27 < humm> sibiria: have you heard of Vim’s easy mode yet?
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16:30 < sibiria> have you heard about nano's default modus operandi, the lord and saviour, yet?
16:32 < humm> /modus/ operandi? for more modes, you know where to look
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17:55 < lil_lasagna> what even is emacs, I just spent 10 minutes playing tetris inside of it
17:55 < AmyMalik> xD
17:57 < Bradipo> lil_lasagna: Next stop, doctor.
17:58 < ssm_> lil_lasagna: ed \n !tetris \n
17:59 < bombuzal> 10 Reasons Why You Should Replace Your OS with emacs -- my LinkedIn thesis
18:00 < ssm_> what is this heresy, we have mg(1) in base
18:00 < ssm_> herussy, even
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18:01 < bombuzal> ssm_: the manpage for it has a very nice line in the DESC
18:02 < bombuzal> "It is compatible with emacs because there shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or vi(1)"
18:02 < lil_lasagna> Bradipo: I just tried doctor. I thought it would do some kind of system check to see if there are missing deps or external tools that are used
18:02 < pardis> mg(1) would be perfect if it supported utf8
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19:06 < ssm_> it supports terminal-friendly octal representations of utf-8 characters :^)
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19:20 < thrig> ed has good utf-8 support, mostly on account of garbage in, garbage out
19:21 < pardis> ssm_: but you can't input them that way, only "display" them
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20:00 < Bradipo> vi has the same approach to utf-8, it works, it just doesn't render them.
20:01 < Bradipo> And vi can input utf-8 as well, as long as you just input the raw hex codes using "control-X [0-9A-Fa-f]+"
20:04 < thrig> or you can map in fancy characters you use a lot
20:04 < Bradipo> using a map, yeah, that's cool.
20:05 < humm> at least nvi2 from ports handles UTF-8
20:05 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/map.txt
20:05 < Bradipo> I've grown so accustomed to OpenBSD's vi that I prefer it over nvi.
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20:06 < humm> does the older nvi in base have any benefits over the newer nvi in ports, other than being smaller, Bradipo?
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20:07 < Bradipo> I don't use the newer one often enough to know.
20:07 < thrig> it's installed by default (granted I patch the base one a bunch, so....)
20:07 < Bradipo> I imagine there must be some differences beyond utf-8 that would make it a unique experience.
20:08 < thrig> also I don't much use fancy characters so mostly don't need utf-8
20:09 < Bradipo> Same here.  So for those rare occasions where I do need it, control-X suffices.
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21:08 < ssm_> pardis: I believe ^Q will let you input them
21:08 < ssm_> like ^V in ksh
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 30 00:00:11 2025