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03:42 < rahl> Is there some equivalent to kldstat for openbsd?
03:42 < pardis> what would you expect it to do?
03:43 < rahl> At the moment I was just reading someone comparing loaded modules on two of their *nix boxes (one freebsd, one linux); using kldstat and lsmod respectively.
03:44 < rahl> Just got me to wondering about poking at my openbsd box, but noted kldstat doesn't exist.
03:44 < pardis> that's easy on OpenBSD
03:44 < pardis> printf ''
03:44 < rahl> oh
03:45 < rahl> how is that supposed to work?
03:46 < pardis> it produces no output and exits
03:46 < thrig> there are no modules to load, so the question is invalid
03:46 < thrig> at a stretch you might inspect dmesg to see what hardware was detected at boot
03:47 < rahl> Ok, I see. Which now has me wondering why that's the case. Is there a decent place to read about this? Now that I've uncovered a new rabbit hole...
03:47 < pardis> one might just as well flip the question around and ask why other OSes invented kernel modules
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03:47 < rahl> thrig: cheers. not necessary. Not saying there _must_ be an equivalent, just wondered why there wasn't.
03:48 < pardis> OpenBSD has never worked that way (it used to support them, but they were never used by the base system)
03:48 < rahl> pardis: of course, totally valid.
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03:49 < rahl> That said, given that I'm open to learning, if you know of any writings regarding the different approaches (from one or other perspective), I'm all ears. If you don't, it's fine to say that too.
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03:50 < thrig> monolithic kernel vs. other methods comes to mind
03:50 < rahl> ack
03:51 < thrig> also there are not many openbsd devs so there isn't much spare time to maintain a lot of knobs
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03:59 < rahl> fair
04:00 < rahl> I didn't (I guess obviously to you) realise openbsd was a monolithic kernel. While aware of the concept I clearly hadn't embedded it enough to have even considered it when asking my initial question.
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04:40 < oldlaptop> Linux is also a "monolithic kernel" as the term is normally used, as are all the (normal) BSD-derived kernels, including OpenBSD's. OpenBSD's kernel is only really unusual in that it doesn't support loading and unloading pieces of the monolithic kernel at runtime (the way most of the others do these days).
04:41 < oldlaptop> It's still "modular" in the loose sense that different components can be enabled or disabled - not even *just* at compile time: https://man.openbsd.org/config.8
04:42 < rahl> ack, thanks oldlaptop 
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04:43 < oldlaptop> (Linux can also be configured at compile time to include (most) drivers or other components built in to the kernel, the way OpenBSD does, *or* as loadable modules.)
04:43 < rahl> I was just this moment reading about how it's all still technically monolithic. That "microkernels" (which I presume were being aluded to earlier, though perhaps not) are quite separate in that they integrate user space drivers instead (IIUC).
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04:44 < rahl> ack, I see
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04:44 < oldlaptop> One generally does not need to bother with any of this in the first place on OpenBSD: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Custom
04:45 < rahl> I believe that. This just came out of a small somewhat unrelated enquiry
04:45 < oldlaptop> ("Only the GENERIC and GENERIC.MP kernels are supported by the OpenBSD team.")
04:46 < rahl> ack
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04:56 < thrig> a monolithic kernel that you can ship of theseus might stretch the definition of monolith a bit
05:04 < cgnarne> let's call it a lego kernel
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14:59 < vortexx> patch tuesday rears it's head again
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15:01 < thrig> xml huh
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15:06 < phy1729> 4th libexpat patch for 7.6
15:06 < IcePic> lucky I'm not on that release.. or doing xml..
15:07 < phy1729> More commenting on how many libexpat errata there have been over the past year
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15:10 < vortexx> libcrypto means restarting sshd, relayd, httpd... and plenty of others
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15:31 < oldlaptop> and expat is (supposed to be?) one of the *better* XML parsers from a security point of view :|
15:31 < oldlaptop> At least it's not yaml.
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15:42 < vortexx> rewrite it in rust and all will be solved!
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15:45 < oldlaptop> memory safety will divide the billion laughs by 0.1
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 01 00:00:12 2025