--- Log opened Mon Oct 06 00:00:19 2025 00:02 -!- matteocavestri [~matteocav@host-79-24-182-4.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:14 -!- ivdsangen [~ivo@83-84-59-127.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #openbsd 00:14 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:18 -!- housemate [~housemate@2001:ac8:33:77::bd70:da0d] has joined #openbsd 00:18 -!- housemate [~housemate@2001:ac8:33:77::bd70:da0d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22 -!- CrimeWave [~Ebox-MTL@user/CrimeWave] has joined #openbsd 00:28 -!- Lotsen [~lotsen@user/Lotsen] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37 -!- jfsimon1981 [~jfsimon19@2a01:cb14:b9b:2000:f49b:1a83:47d6:1666] has joined #openbsd 00:37 -!- jfsimon1981_b [~jfsimon19@2a01:cb14:b9b:2000:530:35da:eaee:846d] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:40 -!- LainIwakura [~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura] has joined #openbsd 00:48 -!- LainIwakura [~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura] has quit [Ping 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-!- horrad1 is now known as horrad 05:51 -!- fart_cat [~fart_cat@user/fart-cat:36778] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52 -!- __Frank__ [~Frank@66.9.169.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52 -!- __Frank__ [~Frank@186.190.100.21] has joined #openbsd 05:52 -!- drainer333 [~alice@user/Drainer333] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52 -!- emmanuelux [~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:53 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:54 -!- alice2 [~alice@user/Drainer333] has joined #openbsd 05:59 -!- nature [~nature@64.137.144.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:07 -!- shiranaihito_ [~shiranaih@2001:fb1:7f:2148:852e:50fc:5535:e110] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 06:18 -!- Frank__ [~Frank@186.190.100.219] has joined #openbsd 06:18 -!- __Frank__ [~Frank@186.190.100.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:21 -!- snth7 [~thl@v220241120183300323.nicesrv.de] has joined #openbsd 06:21 -!- snth [~thl@v220241120183300323.nicesrv.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34 -!- DrachenMaus [~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus] has joined #openbsd 06:34 -!- DragonMaus [~dragonmau@user/dragonmaus] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:36 -!- ciinamon [~ciinamon@user/ciinamon] has joined #openbsd 06:38 -!- ciinamon [~ciinamon@user/ciinamon] has quit [Client Quit] 06:39 -!- ciinamon [~ciinamon@user/ciinamon] has joined #openbsd 06:39 -!- ciinamon [~ciinamon@user/ciinamon] has quit [Client Quit] 06:40 -!- lavaball [~Melissa@31.204.155.215] has joined #openbsd 06:42 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has joined #openbsd 06:43 -!- ciinamon [~ciinamon@user/ciinamon] has joined #openbsd 06:44 -!- ciinamon [~ciinamon@user/ciinamon] has quit 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#openbsd 07:01 -!- z3bra [~z3bra@apophis.z3bra.org] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- monkeybusiness [monkeybusi@user/monkeybusiness] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- tribaal [~tribaal@ubuntu/member/tribaal] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- r3s0 [~oblomov@user/r3s0] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- dbohdan[phone] [uid547665@user/dbohdanphone/x-0845979] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- Hund [~Hund@Linuxkompis/Founder/Hund] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- Rayyan [~Rayyan@user/rayyan] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- beastie [~luis@user/thebeastie] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- ryukazou [sid667511@id-667511.hampstead.irccloud.com] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- Poorchop [Poorchop@user/poorchop] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- aosync [~aws@user/aws] has joined #openbsd 07:01 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:01 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has joined #openbsd 07:02 -!- modern_pleb_ [~modern_pl@user/modern-pleb:56371] has joined #openbsd 07:02 -!- modern_pleb [~modern_pl@user/modern-pleb:56371] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04 -!- MrHAPPY [~pxq@user/MrHAPPY] has quit [] 07:08 -!- baby_groot [~fart_cat@user/fart-cat:36778] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:08 -!- fart_cat [~fart_cat@user/fart-cat:36778] has joined #openbsd 07:10 -!- baby_groot [~fart_cat@user/fart-cat:36778] has joined #openbsd 07:14 -!- fart_cat [~fart_cat@user/fart-cat:36778] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:19 -!- SiFuh [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19 -!- SiFuh__ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19 -!- SiFuh [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has joined #openbsd 07:19 -!- nawcom [~nawcom@bulldadachat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:19 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has joined #openbsd 07:19 -!- nawcom_ [~nawcom@bulldadachat.com] has joined #openbsd 07:19 -!- varighet [~varighet@94-224-80-37.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.5.1] 07:20 -!- nawcom_ is now known as nawcom 07:23 -!- zelest [~zelest@vortex.ifconfig.se] has joined #openbsd 07:24 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has joined #openbsd 07:24 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:27 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has joined #openbsd 07:30 -!- emmanuelux_ [~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36 -!- Aedil [~adrian@188.193.3.19] has left #openbsd [] 07:37 -!- sdds [~sdds@user/sdds] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:42 -!- huy_ [~huy@arennes-650-1-228-166.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:46 -!- defa [~feeeee@2a01:cb10:828f:8700:15f4:71d2:f41b:7dcd] has joined #openbsd 07:47 -!- adig [~default@2a02:2f0e:f201:aa01:6d5f:fe1d:e673:caed] has joined #openbsd 07:50 -!- chrisz [x5f1kbi7un@2001:4090:a246:8219:7c7f:30ff:fed2:3de0] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:52 -!- chrisz [wsc71mp5lc@195.52.48.40] has joined #openbsd 08:04 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:04 -!- jgh [~jgh@hellmouth.gulag.org.uk] has joined #openbsd 08:05 -!- baz [~baz@user/baz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has joined #openbsd 08:07 -!- baz [~baz@user/baz] has joined #openbsd 08:11 -!- dennis [d@ennis.no] has joined #openbsd 08:16 -!- theboot [~qoh@94.46.175.132] has joined #openbsd 08:18 -!- __Frank__ [~Frank@186.190.100.107] has joined #openbsd 08:19 -!- Frank__ [~Frank@186.190.100.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34 -!- varighet [~varighet@94-224-80-37.access.telenet.be] has joined #openbsd 08:36 -!- huy [~huy@arennes-650-1-228-166.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openbsd 08:45 -!- CrimeWave [~Ebox-MTL@user/CrimeWave] has quit [Quit: Electronic Box Montréal - Textual IRC 7.2.6 OSX] 08:53 -!- theboot [~qoh@94.46.175.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:53 -!- aeby [~anders@134.144.28.46.static.addr.valvea.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:59 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:00 -!- cqst [~cqst@user/cqst] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr] 09:01 -!- bigato [~bigato@user/bigato] has joined #openbsd 09:11 -!- huy [~huy@arennes-650-1-228-166.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Leone, umgeher, brynet, Hackerpcs, mz`, dumbmf, ivanbu, panzeroceania, riceandbeans, runelind, (+47 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 09:14 -!- cqst [~cqst@user/cqst] has joined #openbsd 09:14 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Oclair, mx08, JTL, riceandbeans, lusciouslover, rnkn, thrig, phryk_, mvt, outofcreativity (+47 more) 09:14 -!- JTL [~jtl@user/jtl] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:14 -!- mz` [~mz`@user/mz/x-8532539] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:14 -!- phryk_ [~totallyno@user/phryk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:14 -!- phryk [~totallyno@user/phryk] has joined #openbsd 09:16 -!- 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[~JerryXiao@user/jerryxiao] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04 -!- JerryXiao [~JerryXiao@user/jerryxiao] has joined #openbsd 11:05 -!- andinus [~andinus@user/andinus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:05 -!- andinus [~andinus@user/andinus] has joined #openbsd 11:08 -!- altamira [~c@user/altamira] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08 -!- altamira [~c@user/altamira] has joined #openbsd 11:10 -!- zphinx [~zphinx@home.archflux.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10 -!- zphinx [~zphinx@home.archflux.net] has joined #openbsd 11:12 -!- deepesttoaster [~deepestto@user/deepesttoaster] has joined #openbsd 11:14 -!- Ekho [~Ekho@user/ekho] has joined #openbsd 11:19 -!- luser1 [~luser@user/luser1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:19 -!- luser1 [~luser@user/luser1] has joined #openbsd 11:20 -!- sibiria [~sibiria@user/sibiria] has joined #openbsd 11:21 < opv_> I'm running `sysupgrade` on a 7.6 box but it tells me "Already on latest release" after fetching SHA256.sig for 7.7. What am I doing wrong? 11:21 -!- opv_ is now known as opv 11:23 -!- cjs [~irc@user/coreystephanphd] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:24 -!- cjs [~irc@user/coreystephanphd] has joined #openbsd 11:26 < opv> I've cleared /home/_sysupgrade but the behavior remains 11:35 < opv> gotta love openbsd simplicity. sysupgrade is a simple shell script, look at it, see that it compares with /var/db/installed.SHA256. fix that file, be good :) 11:35 < opv> goddamnit i love this OS so much 11:40 -!- k0ga [~k0ga@simple-cc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:41 -!- k0ga [~k0ga@simple-cc.org] has joined #openbsd 11:49 -!- luser1 [~luser@user/luser1] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:50 -!- luser1 [~luser@user/luser1] has joined #openbsd 11:52 -!- naoki [~Thunderbi@240f:10b:7440:1:b4a3:5ca8:65ee:c608] has quit [Quit: naoki] 11:54 -!- naoki [~Thunderbi@240f:10b:7440:1:a44b:c0ed:624:6987] has joined #openbsd 11:55 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has joined #openbsd 12:00 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:07 -!- Guest1730 is now known as v45h 12:11 < IcePic> opv: obsd sucks less! 12:12 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has joined #openbsd 12:13 < jastrom> opv it is truly easy to like :) 12:16 < pardis> as long as you don't peek at the vfs code 12:16 < IcePic> first rule of the vfs club is "don't mention the vfs code" 12:19 < IcePic> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTD9Gow1wTU <- things that make bob@ scream. Filesystem code of course 12:24 -!- dudz [~dudz@mail.dudz.org] has quit [Quit: I'm going (one of me catch phrazes from 2020-2021)] 12:24 -!- dudz [~dudz@mail.dudz.org] has joined #openbsd 12:30 -!- user71 [~user71@2001:1530:1050:c54d:bf8e:3388:7aab:ba44] has joined #openbsd 12:36 -!- sd0 [~nobody@user/sd0] has joined #openbsd 12:42 -!- apac [~alexander@user/apac] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43 -!- qbrack_ [~qbrack@user/qbrack] has joined #openbsd 12:51 -!- alx- [~alx@195.15.28.34] has joined #openbsd 12:53 -!- uwharrie [~uwharrie@user/uwharrie] has joined #openbsd 12:54 -!- alx_ [~alx@195.15.28.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55 -!- struchu [~struchu@staticline-31-183-168-59.toya.net.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1] 12:56 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has joined #openbsd 13:00 -!- radhitya [~radhitya@user/radhitya] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:00 -!- zippy [~quassel@188.27.40.204] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 13:00 -!- zippy [~quassel@188.27.40.204] has joined #openbsd 13:00 -!- zippy [~quassel@188.27.40.204] has quit [Client Quit] 13:00 -!- Poster [~poster@syn-024-210-086-224.res.spectrum.com] has joined #openbsd 13:00 -!- zippy [~quassel@188.27.40.204] has joined #openbsd 13:02 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has joined #openbsd 13:02 -!- radhitya [~radhitya@user/radhitya] has joined #openbsd 13:02 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd 13:02 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:03 -!- qbrack_ [~qbrack@user/qbrack] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:03 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has joined #openbsd 13:03 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:04 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has joined #openbsd 13:04 -!- antanst [~antanst@user/antanst] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:05 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has joined #openbsd 13:06 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:06 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has joined #openbsd 13:07 < seninha> Hi, after a recent `sysupgrade -s` (can't remember when, and to which snapshot), my daily(8) is getting me this message daily, after every boot: https://termbin.com/3wpk 13:07 -!- housemate [~housemate@217.138.220.246] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:09 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@KD118158186024.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #openbsd 13:09 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@KD118158186024.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Changing host] 13:09 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@user/johnzlly] has joined #openbsd 13:09 < seninha> Has anyone got those too? 13:12 < seninha> I just checked src/etc/rc commit history. The lines for `mknod /dev/rootdisk` had been added recently 13:12 < seninha> Everything is fine, it seems. Just the annoying daily security(8) messages flooding mailbox. 13:15 -!- krl_ [~krl@h-155-4-221-200.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #openbsd 13:16 -!- krl__ [~krl@h-155-4-221-200.na.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #openbsd 13:17 -!- krl [~krl@h-155-4-221-200.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:19 -!- nature [~nature@138.51.50.177] has joined #openbsd 13:20 -!- krl_ [~krl@h-155-4-221-200.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:27 -!- haddock [~haddock@user/haddock] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:28 -!- bombuzal is now known as GCHQ 13:29 < ivdsangen> seninha: yes, i get them too, something to do with crossing over to an increased kern.maxpartitions, im not understanding it fully 13:29 -!- GCHQ [~int16h@user/bombuzal] has quit [Changing host] 13:29 -!- GCHQ [~int16h@user/GCHQ] has joined #openbsd 13:30 -!- GCHQ is now known as bombuzal 13:30 -!- bombuzal [~int16h@user/GCHQ] has quit [Changing host] 13:30 -!- bombuzal [~int16h@user/bombuzal] has joined #openbsd 13:32 < seninha> ivdsangen, Same. the comment in /etc/rc is too terse/non-descriptive. 13:33 < seninha> I'll dig later on the mailing list for the full reason behind the /dev/rootdisk 13:33 -!- alx_ [~alx@195.15.28.34] has joined #openbsd 13:33 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has joined #openbsd 13:34 -!- dostoevsky [~dostoevsk@user/dostoevsky] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34 -!- dostoevsky [~dostoevsk@user/dostoevsky] has joined #openbsd 13:34 -!- farterino_cat [~fart_cat@user/fart-cat:36778] has joined #openbsd 13:35 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #openbsd to: Unofficial OpenBSD support channel | It's that time of year: sysupgrade -s / pkg_add -D snap | https://www.openbsd.org | https://www.openbsd.org/faq | Read These Fine Manual Pages (we can help find the right one): https://man.openbsd.org/ | Can't speak? 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15:21 -!- m0v [~m0v@user/m0v] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@user/johnzlly] has joined #openbsd 15:21 -!- ipod420 [~solo@user/ipod420] has joined #openbsd 15:21 < lusciouslover> i tried adding `Section "Device" \ Identifier "drm" \ Driver "intel" \ Option "TearFree" "true" \ EndSection` to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/intel.conf but this just causes x to not start at all 15:23 < humm> What does the log say? 15:23 -!- m0v [~m0v@113.192.29.135] has joined #openbsd 15:23 -!- m0v [~m0v@113.192.29.135] has quit [Changing host] 15:23 -!- m0v [~m0v@user/m0v] has joined #openbsd 15:25 -!- ipod420 [~solo@user/ipod420] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30 -!- gman999 [~GMan999@user/gman999] has joined #openbsd 15:31 -!- gman999 [~GMan999@user/gman999] has quit [Client Quit] 15:33 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@user/johnzlly] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:34 -!- gman999 [~GMan999@user/gman999] has joined #openbsd 15:34 < ssm_> log being /var/log/Xorg.0.log. try `grep TearFree /var/log/Xorg.0.log` 15:35 < ssm_> my config has TearFree set to "on" not "true" maybe it's a syntax error? 15:36 < ssm_> also does your gpu support modesetting(4), or do you have to use intel(4)? intel(4) is unmaintained 15:38 -!- bigato [~bigato@user/bigato] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:40 -!- maccampus [~maccampus@user/maccampus] has joined #openbsd 15:45 < sibiria> for me on AMDgpu, TearFree and Accel wants "on", in both the output class and the device sections 15:47 -!- maccampus [~maccampus@user/maccampus] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:47 -!- derpadmin [~Anonymous@91-162-213-220.subs.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48 -!- gnucode [~user@c-73-103-22-179.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #openbsd 15:49 -!- gnucode [~user@c-73-103-22-179.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:49 -!- gnucode [~user@user/jab] has joined #openbsd 15:51 -!- rx [3c9971f3a8@lindenii/maintainer/runxiyu] has joined #openbsd 15:51 -!- user_with_nouser [~user_with@user/user-with-nouser:54838] has joined #openbsd 15:53 < lusciouslover> changing "Device" to "OutputClass" and "true" to "on" seems to have done the trick, thanks guys 15:53 -!- horrad [~Thunderbi@2003:a:61f:c901:9907:f2af:6ea5:44bb] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:54 < sibiria> you probably want both the outputclass and device sections 15:54 < ssm_> grep your log for EE lines, don't assume configuration is correct 15:58 < sibiria> the options don't necessarily translate the same for intel(4) but this is how i have to set things up with amdgpu to get working acceleration and vsync: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/ba5901ba 16:01 -!- user_with_nouser [~user_with@user/user-with-nouser:54838] has quit [Quit: user_with_nouser] 16:02 -!- zphinx [~zphinx@home.archflux.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:03 -!- ublx [~ublx@user/ublx] has joined #openbsd 16:05 -!- nature [~nature@138.51.50.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #openbsd to: Unofficial OpenBSD support channel | It's that time of year: snapshot users, read up on sysupgrade -s and pkg_add -D snap | https://www.openbsd.org/faq | Read These Fine Manual Pages (we can help find the right one): https://man.openbsd.org/ | Can't speak? https://libera.chat/guides/registration | 3+ line pastes? termbin.com, paste.debian.net, et al | No politics, etc. 16:15 -!- nature [~nature@138.51.51.177] has joined #openbsd 16:16 < oldlaptop> I was going to say in my experience xorg.conf really isn't necessary, but I guess I still don't have anything amdgpu(4) running on the metal (the one polaris11 box being addicted to lvm and kvm) 16:21 -!- sandbag [~sandbag@user/sandbag] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21 -!- qbrack_ [~qbrack@user/qbrack] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:29 -!- reset [~reset@user/reset] has joined #openbsd 16:33 -!- int16h [~int16h@user/bombuzal] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:34 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has joined #openbsd 16:39 < uwharrie> a full conf, no, but some tweaks in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ are sometimes useful, but I've been having issues getting the correct identifiers and it doesn't look like `Xorg -configure` is supported by Xenocara? 16:46 < oldlaptop> Xorg -configure hasn't been supported by Xorg for a long, long time AIUI 16:46 < oldlaptop> never mind xenocara 16:47 -!- theruran [uid11305@id-11305.hampstead.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:48 < uwharrie> ah, still in the docs and help message and didn't have a Linux system to test it on 16:49 < oldlaptop> Which docs? https://man.openbsd.org/Xorg doesn't seem to have -configure anymore 16:50 -!- ewig [~ewig@user/ewig] has joined #openbsd 16:50 < oldlaptop> interestingly it *is* in Xorg(1) on the nearest linux system to hand here (gentoo) 16:52 < oldlaptop> and it even seems to work 16:52 < oldlaptop> (at least a little) 16:54 < uwharrie> I may have been cross referencing Xorg(1) on a different system 16:57 < LinuxRenaissance> I was here last night about load average ~1. in the meantime I did further tests: I disabled all acpi's I could find except acpi0 and none of this solved my problem. I tried disabling all peripherals in bios, that did not help either. my laptops are ThinkPad T480 and T580 and the problem is that on fresh boot my load average falls down towards zero after short time, but after zzz putting computer 16:57 < LinuxRenaissance> to sleep and waking it up them my load average is about ~1 forever 16:57 -!- dostoevsky_ [~dostoevsk@user/dostoevsky] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57 < LinuxRenaissance> further, I reinstalled OpenBSD and installed nothing on it. on first boot I closed my laptop lid, woke it up and the problem repeats. 16:58 < LinuxRenaissance> then I did syspatch and enable apmd and reboot and sleep and resume and the problem is once again here 16:58 < LinuxRenaissance> thunderbolt is disabled in bios, before anyone asks: that thing causes much bigger issues on this laptop+openbsd 16:59 < LinuxRenaissance> any other ideas I can try before attempting to report this to openbsd developers? 17:00 < LinuxRenaissance> perhaps this is not a real issue, but I don't think load average should be presented as 1 if nothing is really going on under the hood 17:00 < jonadab> I'm assuming you already checked top and there aren't processes using enough CPU to explain the high load average? 17:00 < jonadab> (You probably said that last night...) 17:00 < oldlaptop> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169823469928179&w=2 17:00 < LinuxRenaissance> yeah top -S shows almost 100% idle on all four cores 17:01 < LinuxRenaissance> acpi0 is always near the top but it's not using much cpu, if any 17:01 < jonadab> I figured, just checking. 17:01 < jonadab> (Because, you know, rule out the obvious.) 17:02 < LinuxRenaissance> good questions are important, even basic ones 17:03 < oldlaptop> Previously. https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=149302337605783&w=2 17:04 < LinuxRenaissance> also vmstat -i show nothing of importance, like the numbers are not running crazy 17:04 < LinuxRenaissance> oldlaptop I am reading, thank you 17:04 < oldlaptop> (short version: openbsd is not linux, load average is barely defined at all and certainly not defined as rigorously as linux does) 17:04 < oldlaptop> and in any case is not defined the same way as linux 17:10 < Bradipo> While this may be true, the fact is, the number is 0 before zzz and 1 after. Is that working as designed? If so, what's the design? 17:11 -!- yclept [~yclept@user/yclept] has joined #openbsd 17:13 < oldlaptop> that could be as simple as changing the coincidental timing of some recurring event such that it happens to be inside the sampling window 17:14 < Bradipo> So can one change the sampling window to test this hypothesis? 17:14 * oldlaptop would assume that involves some - probably pretty easy - kernel hacking. 17:15 < Bradipo> If load doesn't mean what people think it means, then it should be documented to describe what it does mean. :-) 17:15 -!- sliced [~sliced@ip-185.238.207.18.laito.net.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15 < oldlaptop> "almsot, but not quite, nothing" 17:16 < Bradipo> It is at least argued here that it does mean "something": https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169839653424318&w=2 17:18 -!- fro [fro@humpty.dance] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19 -!- tertullian [~sonne@ip-095-222-113-247.um34.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:20 < LinuxRenaissance> OK, after reading the entire thread provided above I have concluded that openbsd developers don't give a shit about how load average number behaves and as long as it is less than the number of cpu's then the problem with the machine functioning properly does not exist. 17:21 < LinuxRenaissance> Bradipo: what you said is legit and still interests me, but literally Theo de Raadt showed up on the linked above thread and said GTFO with load average number, nobody cares. 17:22 < Bradipo> Hmm, yeah, 'tis a shame. 17:22 < mischief> might be a kernel thread waking up 17:22 < Bradipo> What if you put an actual load on the system? 17:23 < LinuxRenaissance> I admit that I am coming from Linux where this number behaves differently 17:23 < mischief> (top -S) 17:23 < Bradipo> Take the load up to 50, and then see if it drops back down to "normal" values? 17:23 -!- il [~il@user/il] has joined #openbsd 17:23 < LinuxRenaissance> give me a bit to force my laptop to 50 and then I will come back here with more data 17:23 < oldlaptop> critically, linux makes some effort to define and document what it means, and more generally does a lot more to make sure "userspace interfaces" don't break 17:24 < oldlaptop> (openbsd does not do ABI stability) 17:24 -!- Hackerpcs [~user@user/hackerpcs] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:25 -!- SirJitsu [~SirJitsu@162-231-111-175.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd 17:26 < sibiria> LinuxRenaissance: i'm curious, did you confirm that your CPU isn't stuck at lowest frequency after waking up from sleep? 17:26 < sibiria> apmd is no longer an ideal solution for dynamically controlling the CPU freq. 17:27 < Bradipo> Hmm, maybe that explains why it seems to never work, lol. 17:27 < sibiria> just in case you happen to be using it for that purpose, instead of using obsdfreqd 17:27 < Bradipo> Is obsdfreqd in base? 17:27 < Bradipo> I have no man page for it. 17:28 < sibiria> in ports. written by one of the team members 17:28 < sibiria> solene@ 17:28 < Bradipo> Interesting. 17:30 -!- makr [~textual@2a00:f2a:e08e:b880:b807:f5cf:f350:8c72] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:31 -!- alx- [~alx@195.15.28.34] has joined #openbsd 17:32 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has joined #openbsd 17:33 -!- Hackerpcs [~user@user/hackerpcs] has joined #openbsd 17:33 -!- makr [~textual@2a00:f2a:e08e:b880:fd5a:8b9a:3173:c6c5] has joined #openbsd 17:34 -!- alx_ [~alx@195.15.28.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:36 -!- ewig [~ewig@user/ewig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37 -!- fro [fro@humpty.dance] has joined #openbsd 17:38 < LinuxRenaissance> I sent yes to /dev/null 50 times and waited a couple mintes to reach load average 50. then I killed all yes and waited couple more minutes and we are back to load average ~1 17:39 < LinuxRenaissance> my cpu is on charger at the moment and apm claims 1901MHz 17:39 < IcePic> load average is just "how many procs are in the scheduler ready to run if they may" 17:41 < LinuxRenaissance> I did not know about obsdfreqd, thanks, I will check it out now. I am using apmd because it's preinstalled and because I need max battery life while working on battery. while on charger I expect max performance 17:41 < sibiria> if you only wish to run on those two modes - constantly max freq. while on charger, running hot and loud, and always lowest freq. while on battery - then apmd will suffice 17:42 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 17:42 < sibiria> personally i think a balanced mode is best whether on battery or mains 17:43 < LinuxRenaissance> no, I don't want lowest freq on battery. that's too slow 17:43 < LinuxRenaissance> I need it to ramp up the cpu when needed, but lowest freq when just typing in text editor and similar 17:44 < LinuxRenaissance> anyways, I swapped apmd for the other one now and I will test behavior 17:44 < sibiria> obsdfreqd will let you tune things exactly the way you want it. might need a bit of fiddling but in the end it offers the best solution 17:47 < sibiria> if you wish to monitor your performance setting and current clock, the two sysctl items for that are hw.setperf and hw.cpuspeed 17:47 < sibiria> e.g. sysctl hw.setperf hw.cpuspeed 17:49 -!- Figworm [FiggyWitIt@user/figworm] has quit [Quit: Figworm] 17:51 -!- lotsen_ [~lotsen@user/Lotsen] has joined #openbsd 17:52 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52 -!- lotsen [~lotsen@user/Lotsen] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52 -!- uwharrie [~uwharrie@user/uwharrie] has left #openbsd [] 17:52 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has joined #openbsd 17:52 -!- dudz [~dudz@mail.dudz.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52 -!- dudz [~dudz@mail.dudz.org] has joined #openbsd 17:54 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54 -!- CrashOverride [~strcat@p54855ec4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:56 -!- CrashOverride [~strcat@p57b4b1a0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openbsd 17:56 -!- alx_ [~alx@195.15.28.34] has joined #openbsd 17:56 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has joined #openbsd 17:56 -!- lotsen_ [~lotsen@user/Lotsen] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57 -!- lotsen_ [~lotsen@user/Lotsen] has joined #openbsd 17:57 < LinuxRenaissance> zzz does not work without apmd running 17:59 -!- mk| [~mk@user/mk-:55564] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in] 17:59 -!- lotsen_ is now known as Lotsen 17:59 < sibiria> yes, you need it for hibernation and such. and you can still use it for that, even if you stop its functionality for adjusting the clock 17:59 < thrig> tried obsdfreqd, didn't like it, instead set the cpu speed manually when necessary 18:00 -!- alx- [~alx@195.15.28.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:00 < sibiria> setperf to 100 when room gets cold or too loud, back to 0 when too warm or too quiet? 18:01 < sibiria> (swap quiet/loud) 18:01 < sibiria> obsdfreqd's defaults are perhaps not ideal. i don't even know if they try to match what apmd did in the past. but it's certainly better in every regard 18:04 < LinuxRenaissance> so I need to DISABLE apmd so it's not actually running all the time, correct? 18:04 < LinuxRenaissance> anyways, I did that and I enabled obsdfreqd and I will tune it in following days it it seems to not be doing what I want 18:04 < sibiria> for my server i have it tuned to be "sticky" towards low freq., only ramping up to accommodate noticable load. for my laptop i have it tuned to be very responsive and snappy 18:04 < LinuxRenaissance> closing the laptop lid puts computer to sleep even if apmd is not running, so I guess that's all I need 18:04 < pardis> apmd has no functionality for adjusting the clock and hasn't in about a decade 18:05 < pardis> if you tell it to do automatic adjustment, it just passes along your request to the kernel 18:10 < sibiria> iirc the algo is the same now that the kernel does it with its "auto" policy 18:10 < sibiria> that is, same clumsy 18:10 -!- linetrace [~linetrace@c-24-60-111-191.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:10 < pardis> the kernel algorithm has been changed multiple times since it was first implemented 18:11 < pardis> it may well be the same as the one apmd had 10 years ago at this point, I have no idea 18:11 < pardis> haven't run OpenBSD on a laptop since before the last time it was changed 18:13 -!- linetrace [~linetrace@c-24-60-111-191.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #openbsd 18:14 < systemdsucks> finding one laptop that runs accelerated X seems to be like a lottery 18:15 < sibiria> for openbsd, AMD graphics is where its at 18:15 < sibiria> amdgpu is modern and runs great 18:19 -!- linetrace [~linetrace@c-24-60-111-191.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20 -!- memset_ [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 18:21 < pardis> what? it's not even close to being a lottery 18:21 < pardis> almost any new laptop will work with accelerated graphics out of the box 18:21 < pardis> the only way you're likely to run into problems is if you buy Nvidia or something very old 18:21 < pardis> like, 20 years old 18:22 -!- jgh [~jgh@hellmouth.gulag.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24 < pardis> now wifi, that's a lottery if you don't use ThinkPads 18:24 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:24 < quinq> Well, even with it 18:24 < quinq> Just load $vendor_random_blob 18:24 < quinq> And hope they didn't f*ck it up too much 18:25 < lts> Just order an AX200/201/210/211 card for 15 $currency 18:26 -!- linetrace [~linetrace@c-24-60-111-191.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #openbsd 18:27 -!- ivdsangen [~ivo@83-84-59-127.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29 < sibiria> except if the currency is turkish lira. gonna be a hard bargain 18:30 -!- ivdsangen [~ivo@83-84-59-127.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has joined #openbsd 18:34 -!- user71 [~user71@2001:1530:1050:c54d:bf8e:3388:7aab:ba44] has quit [Quit: user71] 18:34 < LinuxRenaissance> is there any public info that wifi6 is planned? 18:35 -!- desh [~desh@47-151-60-172.fdr01.whtr.ca.ip.frontiernet.net] has joined #openbsd 18:35 < lts> I'd go with "not planned" at this point 18:38 < lts> Unless Linux implodes (which is far from impossible), it would take effort from very rare people with nontrivial time at their hands to deliver 802.11ax even to a single OpenBSD driver 18:39 < pardis> "wifi 6" is a marketing name for 802.11ax 18:42 < mischief> i thought qwx had ax support 18:43 < quinq> “The qwx driver does not support any of the 802.11n, 802.11ac, and 802.11ax capabilities offered by the hardware.” 18:45 -!- frkzoid [~frkazoid3@2603-9000-cff0-7d10-edf2-f8d5-cc3b-1904.inf6.spectrum.com] has joined #openbsd 18:45 -!- jupiter_ [~jupiter12@178.254.111.239] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- pkubaj [~pkubaj@46.248.190.59] has joined #openbsd 18:46 < lts> iwx does 802.11ac (not ax) and that's the best we've got 18:46 -!- ggb_ [a62ffbaf4f@2a03:6000:1812:100::3ac] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- khrbtxyz_ [~khrbtxyz@user/khrbt] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- angelwood_ [8656d85bc5@2a03:6000:1812:100::14ce] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- devleloper_ [~devlelope@user/devleloper] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- waffles_ [7ed1c72a0a@user/fishwaffle] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- raghavgururajan_ [ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- CosmicDJ_ [~CosmicDJ@p200300e24f328d0102e04cfffe01e7ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openbsd 18:46 -!- Erhard_ [erhard@user/erhard/x-4737786] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- Hobbyboy [Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- raghavgururajan [ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- ggb [a62ffbaf4f@2a03:6000:1812:100::3ac] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- prime [~prime@user/prime] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- devleloper [~devlelope@user/devleloper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- waffles [7ed1c72a0a@user/fishwaffle] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- 074AAFK15 [8656d85bc5@2a03:6000:1812:100::14ce] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- aaro [aaro@user/aaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47 -!- lockywolf [~lockywolf@coconut.lockywolf.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47 -!- mpark [~mpark@user/mpark] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 18:47 -!- mkukri [~quassel@user/mkukri] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47 -!- karlthane [~quassel@199.99.133.34.bc.googleusercontent.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 18:47 -!- jason123onirc [~jason123o@user/jason123onirc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47 -!- A_Dragon [A_D@libera/staff/dragon] has joined #openbsd 18:47 < pardis> theoretically bwfm(4) should support 802.11ax, but it does so in the least secure possible way 18:47 -!- pardis [~znc@quark.paardenvla.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47 -!- pardis_ [~znc@quark.paardenvla.nl] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- lockywolf_ [~lockywolf@coconut.lockywolf.net] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- mpark-oof [~mpark@user/mpark] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- ggb_ is now known as ggb 18:47 -!- waffles_ is now known as waffles 18:47 -!- dennis [d@ennis.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- CosmicDJ [~CosmicDJ@p200300e24f328d0102e04cfffe01e7ab.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- fflam [~mdt@2600:4040:10fb:5a00::1c19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- jambove [~jambove@BC24E8A7.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- m1dnight [~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- pkubaj_ [~pkubaj@46.248.190.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- DasBrain [dasbrain@user/meow/DasBrain] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- jdgr [~catbus@deadfet.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- karlthane [~quassel@199.99.133.34.bc.googleusercontent.com] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- jastrom [~jastrom@user/jastrom] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47 -!- Erhard [erhard@user/erhard/x-4737786] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47 -!- jdgr [~catbus@deadfet.us] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- Hobbyboy [Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- aaro [aaro@user/aaro] has joined #openbsd 18:47 -!- devleloper_ is now known as devleloper 18:47 < quinq> All those people just tried to enable 802.11ax on their laptop 18:47 -!- Maylay [~maylay@2600:1702:537b:97f:7ed3:aff:fe1a:45ae] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- jupiter126 [~jupiter12@178.254.111.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- khrbtxyz [~khrbtxyz@user/khrbt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- leah2 [~leah@vuxu.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- sh1 [~sh1@162-224-191-55.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- nnn [~txt@2a01:4f9:3b:3e66::21:82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- ariadna [710f27b7bf@user/arivigo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- topoi [~topoi@user/topoi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- ikichigai [~ikichigai@user/ikichigai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47 -!- dennis [d@ennis.no] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- Awoobis [A_D@libera/staff/dragon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48 < quinq> Stop doing it! 18:48 -!- topoi [~topoi@user/topoi] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- sh1 [~sh1@162-224-191-55.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- Maylay [~maylay@2600:1702:537b:97f:7ed3:aff:fe1a:45ae] has joined #openbsd 18:48 < lts> :-) 18:48 -!- khrbtxyz_ is now known as khrbtxyz 18:48 -!- leah2 [~leah@vuxu.org] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- ikichigai [~ikichigai@5.43.228.119] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- mkukri [~quassel@user/mkukri] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- frkazoid333 [~frkazoid3@2603-9000-cff0-7d10-edf2-f8d5-cc3b-1904.inf6.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48 -!- Fish [~Fish@cartwheel.9grid.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48 -!- jastrom [~jastrom@user/jastrom] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- ariadna [710f27b7bf@user/arivigo] has joined #openbsd 18:48 -!- DasBrain [~dasbrain@user/meow/DasBrain] has joined #openbsd 18:49 -!- jambove [~jambove@BC24E8A7.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openbsd 18:49 -!- m1dnight [~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be] has joined #openbsd 18:49 -!- fflam [~mdt@2600:4040:10fb:5a00::1c19] has joined #openbsd 18:49 -!- raghavgururajan_ is now known as raghavgururajan 18:50 -!- k2patel [~k2patel@user/k2patel] has quit [Quit: k2patel] 18:50 < thrig> better supported than bluetooth 18:50 -!- jason123onirc [~jason123o@user/jason123onirc] has joined #openbsd 18:50 -!- Fish [~Fish@cartwheel.9grid.fr] has joined #openbsd 18:50 < quinq> ^^ 18:51 -!- ivdsangen [~ivo@83-84-59-127.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:51 < lts> or WPA3 18:52 -!- fgidim [~nu@user/fgarcia] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52 -!- gumnos [~gumnos@2600:382:2b22:a184:ba70:f4ff:fe1e:1ef2] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:53 -!- prime [~prime@user/prime] has joined #openbsd 18:53 -!- nnn [~txt@2a01:4f9:3b:3e66::21:82] has joined #openbsd 18:54 -!- gumnos [~gumnos@2600:382:37e1:63be:ba70:f4ff:fe1e:1ef2] has joined #openbsd 18:55 -!- ariadna [710f27b7bf@user/arivigo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56 -!- magyar [~magyar@user/magyar] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by magyar_))] 18:56 -!- magyar_ [~magyar@user/magyar] has joined #openbsd 18:56 -!- uwharrie [~uwharrie@user/uwharrie] has joined #openbsd 18:56 -!- magyar [~magyar@user/magyar] has joined #openbsd 18:57 -!- fgarcia [~nu@user/fgarcia] has joined #openbsd 18:58 -!- Xe [~Xe@perl/impostor/xe] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:58 -!- Xe_ [~Xe@perl/impostor/xe] has joined #openbsd 19:03 -!- ariadna [5c66f8a7ae@user/arivigo] has joined #openbsd 19:10 -!- lrosa [~lrosa@user/lrosa] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10 -!- lrosa [~lrosa@user/lrosa] has joined #openbsd 19:22 -!- adig_ [~default@2a02:2f0e:f201:aa01:1070:7ff2:306d:eea0] has joined #openbsd 19:25 -!- adig [~default@2a02:2f0e:f201:aa01:6d5f:fe1d:e673:caed] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:26 -!- nedko [~nedko@gateway/tor-sasl/nedko] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:27 -!- adig__ [~default@86.123.72.40] has joined #openbsd 19:28 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30 -!- adig_ [~default@2a02:2f0e:f201:aa01:1070:7ff2:306d:eea0] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:30 -!- gawen [~gawen@user/gawen] has quit [Quit: cya] 19:31 -!- nedko [~nedko@gateway/tor-sasl/nedko] has joined #openbsd 19:33 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd 19:36 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36 -!- gawen [~gawen@user/gawen] has joined #openbsd 19:42 < LinuxRenaissance> if I understood correctly, the latest FreeBSD wifi efforts are basically running linux drivers somehow. the thing they have been doing this year, but it's unfinished work 19:42 < LinuxRenaissance> would I be correct that OpenBSD does not want to go down that route? 19:43 -!- chilledfrogs [~chilledfr@rsa59-h05-176-133-210-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr] 19:44 -!- gawen [~gawen@user/gawen] has quit [Quit: cya] 19:46 -!- shiranaihito_ [~shiranaih@ppp-171-96-192-174.revip8.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:48 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has joined #openbsd 19:50 -!- gawen [~gawen@user/gawen] has joined #openbsd 19:55 < uwharrie> no 19:56 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57 < uwharrie> depending on the licensing and design, the project will sometimes take kernel code from Linux (see some of the drm/amdgpu stuff) 19:58 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has joined #openbsd 19:58 -!- chilledfrogs [~chilledfr@rsa59-h05-176-133-210-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #openbsd 19:59 -!- adig__ [~default@86.123.72.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02 -!- adig [~default@2a02:2f0e:f201:aa01:1070:7ff2:306d:eea0] has joined #openbsd 20:06 -!- adig [~default@2a02:2f0e:f201:aa01:1070:7ff2:306d:eea0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06 -!- sliced [~sliced@public-gprs543038.centertel.pl] has joined #openbsd 20:08 -!- scain [~ircclient@2600:3c00:e000:30c::1001] has quit [Quit: Quit] 20:09 -!- scain [~ircclient@2600:3c00:e000:30c::1001] has joined #openbsd 20:10 -!- apac [~alexander@user/apac] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:15 -!- afresh1 [~afresh1@us.holligan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15 < LinuxRenaissance> someone above said haven't used openbsd on a laptop for a long time 20:15 < LinuxRenaissance> how is the general theme in the openbsd community, do you people use this OS as your desktop system? 20:16 < LinuxRenaissance> by desktop I mean both the one that has batteries and the one that does not :) 20:16 -!- sbr [~sbr@dddd.8by3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:16 < humm> yes 20:17 < LinuxRenaissance> obviously I am a new user here, but I approached this OS from the laptop perspective first. and what I found out, so far, is that a lot of BSD fans in general tend to not use their prefered BSD as their primary (or any) desktop. 20:17 < LinuxRenaissance> I talked to some FreeBSD people and asked them about their main computer and they said MacBook 20:18 < humm> a lot of “Linux fans” use macOS 20:18 < LinuxRenaissance> OK, FreeBSD people are not OpenBSD people, that much I am aware 20:18 -!- CrimeWave [~Ebox-MTL@user/CrimeWave] has joined #openbsd 20:18 -!- sbr [~sbr@dddd.8by3.net] has joined #openbsd 20:19 < sibiria> i use openbsd for my server/router/somesuch needs. i have an openbsd install on a laptop but it's not a daily driver. i prefer macOS for personal laptop/desktop use 20:19 < LinuxRenaissance> yeah, I don't mean that Linux fans don't use Mac's. it's just that I am a bit of a stubborn head. once I start learning one system I tend to put it everywhere so I can be presented with all kinds of problems to overcome and learn 20:19 < humm> it may well be that there are more people using OpenBSD on servers and not on desktops than people using it on desktops, but that needn’t matter to you 20:19 < humm> if you’re interested in OpenBSD, try using OpenBSD 20:20 < humm> there certainly are people mainly using OpenBSD, and you can be among them 20:20 < LinuxRenaissance> I have been a Linux user for quite a while and I felt the need to learn something new. wherever this may take me. 20:22 < humm> go ahead 20:22 < LinuxRenaissance> no Windows and no Mac's in this home. I am a bit of a GNUissance to myself primarily. let's see if BSD's can rewire my brain 20:22 < Bradipo> LinuxRenaissance: I use OpenBSD on my laptop. It works fine. 20:23 < Bradipo> In fact, *it* is my *primary* desktop/laptop OS. 20:23 < LinuxRenaissance> oh, I never even expected it NOT to work fine. but I have literally just installed it last week so I am encountering many different ways of how things are supposed to be done 20:24 < LinuxRenaissance> today I already learned that apmd is not the only way to manage power 20:24 < Bradipo> Oh, well, sure, OpenBSD is considerably different from "modern" Linux. 20:24 < Bradipo> Surprisingly, I just learned that too, however, I also don't suspend my laptop. 20:24 < Bradipo> In fact, I don't run Linux at all... 20:24 < LinuxRenaissance> the way I use my laptop is that I close the lid very often to preserve battery and resume later to continue 20:25 < Bradipo> Yes, closing the lid to preserve battery is a common thing. 20:25 < LinuxRenaissance> so I am happy that OpenBSD handles this well out of the box 20:27 < LinuxRenaissance> also I used Unix before I ever heard of Linux or Windows so I have this itch to step back a litte bit. it's not that modern Linux is bad, but when I booted up both BSD's that I tried recently a bit of happy nostalgia overwhelmed me 20:27 -!- lotsen_ [~lotsen@user/Lotsen] has joined #openbsd 20:27 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28 < Bradipo> LinuxRenaissance: This may offer a different perspective: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/quasiblog/transience/#logout 20:28 -!- krl [~krl@h-155-4-221-200.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #openbsd 20:29 < LinuxRenaissance> I can't click that. 20:29 < LinuxRenaissance> I will just type it by hand 20:29 < Bradipo> I hope that you'll find the simplicity of OpenBSD to be a strength. 20:29 < Bradipo> Linux has gotten so complex lately that it's not *fun* to use it. 20:29 -!- Lotsen [~lotsen@user/Lotsen] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29 < Bradipo> But, I'm also not claiming that trying to figure how tearing works on OpenBSD is *fun*. :-) 20:30 < Bradipo> LinuxRenaissance: You could copy/paste it. 20:30 < Bradipo> That's what I normally do. 20:30 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has joined #openbsd 20:30 < LinuxRenaissance> I am in Window Maker ATM and I don't seem to be able to do that either 20:30 -!- krl__ [~krl@h-155-4-221-200.na.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30 < LinuxRenaissance> but don't worry about it, I will find a way 20:30 < Bradipo> That's odd. I used to use Window Maker and I don't know why that would prevent copy/paste. 20:31 < humm> should depend on the terminal, not the window manager 20:31 < Bradipo> What IRC client are you using? 20:31 < Bradipo> Sure, I suppose. 20:31 < Bradipo> Copy/paste in Unix usually amounts to simply hightlighting the text and then using the middle-click to paste it somewhere. 20:31 < Bradipo> (e.g. cut buffers). 20:32 < Bradipo> I haven't seen any terminals that prevent that. 20:32 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32 < LinuxRenaissance> for tearing I just loaded up picom 20:32 -!- afresh1 [~afresh1@us.holligan.net] has joined #openbsd 20:33 -!- yclept [~yclept@user/yclept] has quit [Quit: nyaa~] 20:34 < LinuxRenaissance> I am using weechat on Linux in tmux on that same Linux which I reached through ssh that I loaded through kitty on openbsd 20:34 < Bradipo> And you cannot double or triple click to higlight the URL for selection? 20:34 -!- whitenite [~whitenite@2a01:4f8:242:ebbe::111] has joined #openbsd 20:34 < LinuxRenaissance> usually I just hold ctrl key when clicking on a link in weechat, but I think my ctrl key got eaten by window maker 20:35 < Bradipo> Or it could be that weechat on OpenBSD disables that kind of behavior. :-) 20:35 < LinuxRenaissance> weechat is running on remote linux 20:35 < Bradipo> One of the things you'll find about OpenBSD is that options with security/privacy implications are often disabled by default. 20:36 < Bradipo> Oh, well, that's interesting. Is the browser that you expect ctrl-click to open a URL on also running remote linux? 20:36 < LinuxRenaissance> I believe I should be able to kill my window manager and load a different one on the fly, let me try 20:36 < fro> i'd assume it's the terminal 20:36 < fro> not any of this other stuff 20:37 < humm> try holding shift for selecting stuff from the terminal 20:39 < humm> sometimes mouse stuff gets sent to the process reading from the terminal unless you hold shift 20:40 < LinuxRenaissance> shift works 20:40 < LinuxRenaissance> could be that my browser is not linked as something that should open URL's 20:40 -!- jtt [~jtt@user/thyssentishman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40 < LinuxRenaissance> I will deal with it later 20:41 < LinuxRenaissance> ok, I forgot what that URL was about. I have it open :D 20:41 < LinuxRenaissance> Bradipo: is that your blog? 20:42 < LinuxRenaissance> maybe it's not a blog, but the question remains anyway 20:43 < oldlaptop> LinuxRenaissance: My laptops generally all run OpenBSD (dual-boot with linux, where they spend "most" time in OpenBSD); the big desktop runs linux to feed raging LVM and KVM addictions I should do something about (probably move to the other room) 20:44 < oldlaptop> Those laptops are all thinkpads and are all over ten years old, so that's hardware support "on easy mode" in more than one respect. 20:45 -!- psydroid2 [~psydroid@user/psydroid] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.2.6 Quasar http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:45 < Bradipo> About a different mode of using a laptop. 20:45 < Bradipo> e.g. suspend vs power off. 20:45 < Bradipo> No. 20:46 < oldlaptop> (One of them does have a fairly severe problem - the W520 has the dreaded NVIDIA Optimus disaster, and the external display outputs are all hardwired to the NVIDIA chip - which is a slightly warm paperweight as far as OpenBSD goes. Unbelievably, the external outputs work more or less transparently on linux out of the box - someone must have had a *lot* of headaches to make that happen.) 20:46 < LinuxRenaissance> what Simon Tatham wrote .. well I am not THAT different from him. I mostly use the suspend feature to help me stay off charger during the day (I am on charger now so no need for sleep) when I move from couch to bed to balcony or whatever. when I drive the kid to gym I tend to stay in car for an hour and just opening up the laptop and continuin from half an hour ago is useful. also overnight I tend 20:46 < LinuxRenaissance> to shutdown unless I don't haha. and I am not an uptime whore so rebooting and updating is normal to me 20:47 -!- nature [~nature@138.51.51.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:48 < LinuxRenaissance> however my WORK laptop ... now that one tends to have a couple of weeks of uptime (with many sleeps in between). I just don't bother shutting down that one ever, unless Debian tells me kernel replacement is ready 20:49 -!- apac [~alexander@user/apac] has joined #openbsd 20:49 -!- jtt [~jtt@user/thyssentishman] has joined #openbsd 20:49 < oldlaptop> Intel wifi drivers perform acceptably unless paired with my OpenBSD wifi AP in a congested signal environment. (I knew that was a bad idea, but I did it anyway.) Configuration is so much easier than linux that I don't care how many extra letters it has after 802.11. 20:49 < LinuxRenaissance> and the third maching is actually my main computer and it is a desktop one which simply stays on forever. no sleep function needed on that one. 20:49 < oldlaptop> (not that these machines have those to begin with of course) 20:50 -!- lotsen_ is now known as Lotsen 20:50 < LinuxRenaissance> I have 802.11ax on T480, that's why I asked about wifi6 support 20:50 -!- memset_ [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 20:51 < Bradipo> I don't know if OpenBSD supports 802.11ax... 20:51 < Bradipo> That's one area (among the many) that needs some improvement. 20:51 < Bradipo> It does well with ethernet chips, but 801.11 stuff is often difficult, if impossible, to get working. 20:52 < LinuxRenaissance> as I understand it, openbsd goes up to ac 20:53 < oldlaptop> It does ethernet over microwaves. Some letters are involved. 20:53 < LinuxRenaissance> which is fine. I am not complaining. I get some 250 mbps from this I think 20:53 -!- desh [~desh@47-151-60-172.fdr01.whtr.ca.ip.frontiernet.net] has left #openbsd [] 20:56 < LinuxRenaissance> is there something like lspci to list my PCI-attached hardware? 20:56 < LinuxRenaissance> I am trying to remember which wifi card I have 20:57 < Bradipo> pcidump(8) 20:57 < Bradipo> Though, I often look for this kind of thing in the output of dmesg. 20:57 < LinuxRenaissance> thanks. it's intel AX210 20:57 < AmyMalik> oldlaptop, doesn't that describe b, a and g 21:01 < oldlaptop> That's always just one letter, though 21:02 < oldlaptop> The weird fancy new stuff (from, like, after 2005) usually has more than one letter. 21:02 < oldlaptop> I am trying to remember which wifi card I have 21:02 < oldlaptop> Normally one would just look at dmesg. 21:03 < oldlaptop> (which will also say whether a driver attached to it, and which one if so, and would also have diagnostic messages if something went wrong) 21:03 -!- gnucode [~user@user/jab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03 < LinuxRenaissance> I did that first but I did grep on "intel" instead on "Intel" 21:04 < LinuxRenaissance> next time I will do better, but pcidump does the job well in this case 21:04 < oldlaptop> Sure. 21:04 < oldlaptop> (dmesg will generally also be a cool order of magnitude shorter than a linux dmesg, so maybe you don't need grep) 21:06 < Bradipo> I usually pipe dmesg to less. 21:06 -!- sozuba [~sozuba@user/sozuba] has joined #openbsd 21:17 -!- noone [~six@user/six] has joined #openbsd 21:27 -!- sonya [~nightwolf@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:28 -!- sonya [~nightwolf@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has joined #openbsd 21:31 -!- grain775 [~grain77@user/grain77] has joined #openbsd 21:31 -!- nature [~nature@64.137.144.64] has joined #openbsd 21:33 -!- grain77 [~grain77@user/grain77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33 -!- grain775 is now known as grain77 21:35 -!- gman999 [~GMan999@user/gman999] has quit 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