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01:18 < deimosBSD> when my machine boots 7.7, it seems to individually spin up each sas drive in serial; and do some sort of check/test on the sas connection to tell me it's at 6 Gbps. Each drive takes around 7 seconds. 
01:18 < deimosBSD> is there a way to either skip it or run it in parallel?
01:25 < mischief> unplug them?
01:28 < deimosBSD> technically, would be a quicker boot.
01:31 < Bradipo> That's typical for datacenter type equipment.
01:32 < Bradipo> e.g. RAID with 14 drives can take a long time to spin up each drive, etc.
01:33 < deimosBSD> this is 10 drives per bus, with 4 busses, so it takes a long time
01:33 < deimosBSD> my comparison was freebsd on the same machine doesn't do this, and my other openbsd servers don't do this. maybe just the amd turin southbridge is too new
01:35 < deimosBSD> the bios already does the sas drive is connected and valid and drive passes basic smart test on boot
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01:36 < deimosBSD> i have a week or so before this server has to go into production, we'll see how ffs2 handles softraid on ~500TB 
01:37 < mischief> good luck
01:37 < deimosBSD> i dread the future fsck
01:44 < pardis> I hope you aren't using a single big 500TB filesystem
01:44 < pardis> fsck requires around 1 GB RAM per TB of filesystem, as a rule of thumb
01:44 < pardis> so you will need 500 GB of RAM if you are doing that
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01:47 < pardis> why was OpenBSD chosen for this? I don't know what your use case is, but it already sounds like something OpenBSD is bad at
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01:49 < deimosBSD> it is bad at it. production is freebsd. this is mostly to see how far i can push openbsd
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02:48 < AmyMalik> pardis, i assume one cannot substitute with a sufficiently big hard drive used as a swap drum?
02:48 < pardis> one probably could, if one wanted the fsck time to go from weeks to months
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03:09 < AmyMalik> pardis, that's, I suppose, better than it not working?
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03:20 < pardis> but much worse than using another OS or splitting up the filesystem into many smaller ones
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03:26 < oldlaptop> It's outrageous - you'd almost think they weren't considering the possibility of 500TB disks when they designed the filesystem or something!
03:27 < oldlaptop> "Sure, we thought about 500MB disks. I mean, those are a bit on the big side, but not crazy. Weird typo, by the way."
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03:31 < dlg> imagine short stroking a 500TB disk
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04:27 < deimosBSD> fwiw, this server has enough ram to handle a single 500TB ffs2 filesystem
04:28 < thrig> might want to test a fsck, bad time to learn otherwise unscheduled
04:30 < pardis> one reason not to do that down, UINT_MAX-1 to go
04:31 < deimosBSD> it's just a play project out of sheer curiosity
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07:08 < avemestr> deimosBSD: It's certainly interesting. Please report back on your findings when you have it running!
07:09 < avemestr> deimosBSD: Also, slightly jaloux that you can get a 500TB/512GB machine for a "play project out of sheer curiosity" :-D
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07:24 < berru> Hey, my Makefile written on Linux behaves differently on OpenBSD. I set a variable with `UNAME := $(shell uname)` and it contains "Linux" on Linux but is empty on open BSD. I checked, but the `uname` program is present and actually returns "OpenBSD" when tested in a shell. Any ideas ?
07:25 < mischief> man 1 make
07:26 < mischief> bsd make is not gnu make
07:26 < IcePic> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21874468/run-a-command-in-gnu-and-bsd-makefile-and-store-the-result-into-a-variable
07:26 < berru> mischief: I noticed, hence the question.
07:27 < berru> ty IcePic 
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12:18 < ax0n> some stuff compiles fine on OpenBSD if you install the "gmake" package and run gmake instead of make. That's usually my first step when trying to build projects from source on OpenBSD. 
12:21 < fasecx> why does it fails with make on openbsd?
12:22 < sibiria> because bsdmake isn't gnu make, and a lot of stuff is built with gnu make dependencies
12:23 < sibiria> in particular if it's a Makefile produced by Automake
12:23 < fasecx> oh ok
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15:03 < deimosBSD> avemestr: it's because the hardware arrived a week earlier than expected. I have a free week to mess around with the improbable openbsd server
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15:14 < avemestr> deimosBSD: ;-)
15:15 < avemestr> I can imagine your volume will be the largest FFS2 volume ever created. It's good fun!
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15:17 < deimosBSD> I doubt that
15:18 < deimosBSD> so far, I've only created this as a test:
15:18 < deimosBSD> Filesystem     Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
15:18 < deimosBSD> /dev/sd15a     140T   16.0K    133T     1%    /data
15:18 < quinq> The largest part or the fun part? :)
15:18 < deimosBSD> the largest part. the fun part is guaranteed
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15:20 < quinq> ^^
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15:20 < deimosBSD> i'm impressed that openbsd supports this hardware better than other OSes
15:21 < deimosBSD> I submitted the dmesg/sensors as well.
15:22 < avemestr> Nice also to make them public: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/dmesgd?do=view&id=8595
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15:31 < sibiria> that's a lot of disks. softraiding them?
15:33 < Bradipo> hardware raid?
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15:36 < deimosBSD> softraid
15:37 < deimosBSD> hw.sensors.softraid0.drive0=online (sd15), OK
15:38 < sibiria> do let us know what read- and write speeds you get with that
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15:38 < deimosBSD> there's another server with 40 disks, but it is still in progress
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15:41 < deimosBSD> how would you test read/write speeds? or what is the preferred benchmark for filesystems in openbsd land?
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15:42 < sibiria> dd would suffice
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15:43 < sibiria> dd if=/dev/zero of=testfile bs=4M count=1000 # or so
15:44 < sibiria> running it the other way around, dd'ing the file to /dev/null, should get some indication of read speed
15:44 < sibiria> at least i don't think openbsd quickifies that the same way linux does by just not reading data at all
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15:46 < Bradipo> sibiria: A bit of a micro-optimization?
15:47 < sibiria> god knows what they were thinking. it's a null-op whether you read or don't read, but by terminating it early you can no longer gauge disk reads with it
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15:48 < Bradipo> You mean if you do something like: dd if=bigfile of=/dev/null bs=4M ?
15:48 < sibiria> yes
15:48 < Bradipo> Wow, yeah, that's goofy.
15:49 < sibiria> maybe they have a sysctl to control it. maybe some distros do it differently. not sure
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15:55 < avemestr> "not sure" sums up the (at least mine) linux experience pretty well.
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15:56 < sibiria> "we've got this guy Not Sure, he got an IQ higher than anyone alive and he's gonna fix everything!" - Idiocracy
15:57 < thrig> fire Not Sure, use AI
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17:30 < riceandbeans> thrig: I used AI to write a bunch of Rust ( at the request of people above my paygrade though they didn't specify language ), and now I'm almost sad reading this that I didn't tell it to write very inventive Perl.
17:33 < systemdsucks> the only good thing about unemployment is not having to work for idiots
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17:45 < deimosBSD> sibiria: here's the result of your dd suggestion, 4194304000 bytes transferred in 271.526 secs (15447154 bytes/sec)
17:47 < deimosBSD> and on an older, slower server running freebsd with zfs, 4194304000 bytes transferred in 1.451732 secs (2889171414 bytes/sec)
17:48 < deimosBSD> one of those two is a lie
17:48 < sibiria> i think they are both accurate
17:49 < sibiria> openbsd's softraid is known to be slow because it writes to each disk in succession, not in parallel
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17:50 < pardis> OpenBSD is not very good at large amounts of storage in general
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17:50 < pardis> the softraid sucks, the filesystem sucks (for that use case), the disk drivers are mostly still biglocked
17:50 < deimosBSD> I think zfs just lied and said the commit is done, when in reality, it's in memory and not actually written to disk
17:51 < sibiria> that's possible, too. it's got a lot of tricks going
17:51 < pardis> try oflag=sync then
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17:57 < avemestr> A lot of good perspectives on file systems in this thread: https://marc.info/?t=169392315300001&r=1&w=2 - especially from Nick Holland and Janne Johansson. 
17:57 < deimosBSD> here's with oflag=sync on fbsd/zfs, 4194304000 bytes transferred in 35.336760 secs (118695207 bytes/sec)
17:59 < deimosBSD> avemestr: i was just starting to read through the source for the filesystem to figure out how to better determine what is happening
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18:03 < jab> for the heck of it, I am trying to build sparrow wallet from source. 
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18:27 < oldlaptop> ffs is a wonderful filesystem because it has been tested in production for over thirty years.
18:28 < oldlaptop> ffs is a terrible filesystem because it has been tested in production for over thirty years.
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18:30 < ssm_> I can consistently get ffs prune to pass where it should fail by failure to resume from suspend/hibernate. the kernel panics after the filesystems are mounted, but I don't know how much data corruption potentially happens between mount and panic.
18:30 < ssm_> go into bsd.rd when that happens and force an fsck and that resolves it
18:31 < ssm_> s/ffs prune/fsck prune/
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20:42 < echelon> hi, what could be causing tcpdump to take forever to exit after doing ctrl-c?
20:45 < echelon> oh, i think because i have dns resolution enabled
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20:48 < thrig> or it's busy matching the packets of your SSH session
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22:17 -!- jrm2 is now known as jrm
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22:23 -!- jupiter126 is now known as Guest6242
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22:24 -!- km [~km@c978F5BC1.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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23:16 -!- Bradipo_ is now known as Bradipo
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23:18 -!- echelon [~steerpike@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has joined #openbsd
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23:41 -!- tertullian [~sonne@ip-095-222-113-247.um34.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #openbsd
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23:49 -!- drainer31 is now known as drainer333
--- Log closed Thu Oct 16 00:00:33 2025