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05:44 < deimosBSD> the upgrade to 7.8 lost my usb gps receiver, doesn't even show up in usbdevs -vv anymore. when trying to ldattach to /dev/cuaU0, it can't because there is nothing there.
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05:49 < vortexx> avemestr: I'm seeing an extra 50-100Mbps using speedtest-cli
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05:50 < vortexx> (of course trying to wring extra performance out of 11 year old hw that is EOL may seem pointless but still...)
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06:24 < IcePic> vortexx: I don't think it is. When I hosted the small mini-hackathon in 2009, claudio and henning did PF stuff and tested on really small x86 boxes with 4 eth on them, and the idea was that if you bench on a machine that only gets say 50Mbit/s perf, you can immediately notice if you manage to code up a 10% speedup, but if it easily maxes out the 100Mbit/s card due to accelerated eth and whatever, then its 
06:24 < IcePic> lots harder to reliably measure "the idle box is 10% more idler" 
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06:31 < vortexx> IcePic: right
06:32 < IcePic> and in some sense, if you have only a 100mbit link to the isp, getting some more bps at your end (say from max 200 to 250-300) would then still make it a bit more idle at your end, handling the isp-100mbit/s more easily now that stuff is faster internally
06:33 < vortexx> well I have 10Gbps so achieving 450Mbps isn't a huge improvement :p
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06:33 < vortexx> my lan is slower than the uplink atm
06:34 < vortexx> right, have to go, bbl
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06:42 < housemate> good day
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07:20 < x_x> how much is openssh related to openbsd? openssh.com is not working and I don't know why
07:20 < x_x> maybe upgrading to 7.8?
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07:24 < IcePic> x_x: openssh is developed on openbsd, as a part of the OS, then portable versions of it are made for other OSes
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07:24 < IcePic> x_x: if you keep uptodate on OpenBSD, you get new OpenSSH versions 
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07:27 < x_x> I wonder about stuff like, if it's the same people handling the websites
07:27 < x_x> and other infra
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07:36 < IcePic> x_x: same group, not same people. It's different people that manage the file dist, the maillists, the openssh/bgpd/ntpd-whatever sites
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09:01 < henk> hi, is the problem with openssh.com on topic here?
09:04 < IcePic> henk: yes, but its being handled. the domain is being moved 
09:04 < IcePic> which x_x also might want to know
09:04 < x_x> oh, is that announced somewhere? I found no info
09:05 < IcePic> no, just go that answer from one of the project members
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09:05 < x_x> was it planned?
09:05 < henk> IcePic: yeah, it’s become a topic in a few other channels, so I thought I’d come here and hopefully get authoritative information :D thank you!
09:06 < IcePic> looked like a nasty expired-domain-taken-over-by-vultures, except the redirected page wasn't nasty. ;)
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09:09 < x_x> I didn't even see the redirected page, because https failed and I refused to downgrade
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09:16 < IcePic> mostly a domain-parking thing
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09:23 < jab> I wish OpenBSD packaged ikiwiki  
09:23 < jab> though to be fair, I'd only use it for the Hurd wiki.
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09:31 < IcePic> jab: the ikiwiki on obsd seems to be less about getting the software and deps installed and A LOT more on post-install stuff you have to do
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09:50 < rnkn> I wish ikiwiki worked
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09:50 < rnkn> I also wish OpenBSD packages Perl Carton
09:51 < mischief> i've used dokuwiki before, seems pretty simple
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09:54 < rnkn> would it be a faux pas for me to ask ports@ to package p5-Carton?
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10:17 < avemestr> You can try. Worst case you get a "diff welcome" response.
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10:57 < nanach1> i wonder how i never heard of ikiwki
10:57 < nanach1> tjis seems a lot smaller than dokuwiki which i was using before
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10:58 < nanach1> i wonder if i can convert pages
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13:08 < gozu> if someone at least semi-official here knows/cares about the, aehm, current domain delegation situation ... please give me a ping. 
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13:29 < sonya> w3m github.com → gunzip: stdin: unrecognized file format.. if someone has a solution - please, pm/ping me up.. thanks.. 
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15:05 < thrig> github.com is more or less broken in w3m due to mandatory javascript
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15:15 < Bradipo> Fortunately, Github != Git.
15:20 < thrig> they haven't figured out a way to break cloning of repositories, yet
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15:45 < sonya> thrig, lynks and links+ are fine with github.. i'll try to dig..
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15:46 < sonya>  dillo and netsurf are also fine ..
15:51 < gozu> oh, if dillo is supported, how about arachne ... 
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16:27 < seninha> there are a few github frontend/proxy services
16:27 < seninha> one of them coincidentally called “gothub”
16:27 < seninha> (not related to Game of Trees' gothub)
16:27 < seninha> https://gothub.lunar.icu/phillbush/home
16:28 < seninha> ^ seninha's dotfiles repository at https://github.com/phillbush/home
16:28  * seninha forgor he moved it codeberg.org
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16:30 < seninha> For more instances (although i like lunar.ico's services), see https://codeberg.org/gothub/gothub
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16:39 < xoddf2> With this pf.conf: https://xoddf.sdf.org/files/pf.conf ...when I add the PF rules given in the FAQ <https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq16.html#VMMnet>, only DNS works.  What rules before that break it?
16:40 < xoddf2> I mean only DNS works in vmm VMs.
16:41 < xoddf2> This is with $dns_server set to the IP address of the router.
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16:42 < mlarkin> xoddf2: what are you trying to do? (whatever you asked earlier was lost when I reconnected)
16:46 < pardis> you probably want to pass traffic that you intend to be passed
16:48 < pardis> in this case, only incoming traffic (from the guest or otherwise) is passed for $incoming_services and nothing else
16:52 < xoddf2> mlarkin: My usual pf.conf blocks everything (in both directions) except some allowed ports.  With the rules given in the FAQ for use with vmm (Option 2), only DNS works in the VMs.
16:57 < mlarkin> sure but you still havent said what you want to happen
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16:58 < mlarkin> eg "I want VMs to have full access while blocking ports X Y Z" or "I want this vm to have access to X and that other vm to have access to Y"
16:59 < mlarkin> what I read is "my pf blocks everything" followed by "my VMs cant connect". well, of course that would happen.
16:59 < thrig> blocking all packets is a good security posture
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16:59 < xoddf2> mlarkin: I just want outgoing traffic on the ports listed in $tcp_services and $udp_services to work in the VMs as it does on the host.
17:00 < mlarkin> via NAT or are your VMs bridged in a veb(4) or bridge(4) with $egress IPS?
17:00 < mlarkin> IPs
17:00 < mlarkin> easiest way is a nat-to rule
17:00 < xoddf2> mlarkin: I'm using the NAT method (Option 2 in the FAQ).
17:01 < mlarkin> 1 sec
17:01 < mlarkin> I see no nat rule in that pf.conf
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17:02 < xoddf2> mlarkin: I meant when I append the one in the FAQ to it.
17:02 < mlarkin> ok so let's stop playing "20 questions" here. please provide the full pf.conf that is failing, otherwise we're just guessing
17:03 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Like this: https://xoddf.sdf.org/files/pf-vmm.conf
17:03 < mlarkin> you cant blindly just stick in that line unless you are using local interfaces in the VM. are you doing that (eg vmctl start -L)
17:03 < mlarkin> 1 sec
17:03 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Yes
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17:03 < xoddf2> ("local interface" in /etc/vm.conf)
17:04 < mlarkin> you will need a nat-to here I think
17:04 < mlarkin> well
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17:05 < mlarkin> try this instead of the match out and pass in lines:
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17:05 < mlarkin> pass out on egress from 100.64.0.0/10 to any nat-to (some_interface)         where some_interface is the egress interface
17:06 < franks2> when a program dont start with rcctl, how do i start debugging? it doesnt log anything in the programs logfile, or nothing in messages/daemon
17:06 < mlarkin> also note this suggestion assumes you are using "local interfaces" ala vmctl start -L
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17:10 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Now, the VMs can't connect to the Internet at all (only the host).
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17:15 < IcePic> franks2: rcctl -d gives nothing?
17:16 < franks2> IcePic: thank you, -d was the answer :-)
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17:49 < rkta> sonya: Problem with github and w3m is, that w3m requests HTTP/1.0, but github will not honor this.
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18:06 < mlarkin> xoddf2: shrug
18:06 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Thanks anyway
18:06 < mlarkin> start removing block rules and add them back one at a time until you find which one is the culprit
18:06 < mlarkin> start very simple
18:06 < mlarkin> build up the rules one at a time
18:06 < mlarkin> eg just do basic VM nat, get that working
18:06 < mlarkin> then add blocks
18:07 < mlarkin> it might also be a rule ordering problem
18:07 < mlarkin> like, if you put the vm nat-to rule first, does it work (even if stuff isn't blocked correctly)?
18:08 < xoddf2> mlarkin: I moved it to just after "block all", and it still didn't work.
18:09 < xoddf2> Even putting it just before "block all" doesn't work.
18:09 < mlarkin> is it the block all rule causing the problem?
18:09 < mlarkin> if you remove that does vm traffic work? (yes i know this is not what you want)
18:09 < xoddf2> mlarkin: I commented out "block all", and it still didn't work.
18:10 < mlarkin> are you using local interfaces in vm.conf or vmctl start -L ?
18:10 < xoddf2> mlarkin: The former
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18:11 < mlarkin> for my setup I block everything and I have about 100 VMs using local interfaces. I have:
18:11 < mlarkin> block in all
18:12 < mlarkin> pass out on egress from 100.64.0.0/10 to any nat-to (egress)
18:12 < mlarkin> and thats basically it
18:12 < mlarkin> try adding pass on tap0   (or tap1 or whatever) at the top
18:13 < mlarkin> block all might be blocking at the tap
18:13 < mlarkin> er sorry I have pass out on tap0 from 100.64.0.0/10
18:13 < mlarkin> not pass out on egress, that makes no sense (was hand copying it from another machine)
18:14 < mlarkin> so I may have misadvised earlier. try pass out on tapX
18:14 < mlarkin> pass out on tap0 from 100.64.0.0/10 to any nat-to (egress)      (or tap1, etc)
18:15 < mlarkin> alternately you can put your tapX in a veb + vport and into a trunk
18:16 < xoddf2> mlarkin: "pass out on tap2 from 100.64.0.0/10 to any nat-to (egress)" didn't work either, nor {tap0, tap1, tap2}.
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18:18 < mlarkin> even with block removed?
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18:18 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Yes
18:18 < mlarkin> and maybe the obvious check, inside the VM, vio0 has a 100.64 address?
18:19 < mlarkin> and tapX is "up" on the host?
18:19 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Yes (in the case of a Debian VM, it's enp0s2 at 100.64.3.3)
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18:20 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Yes
18:20 < mlarkin> er wait
18:21 < mlarkin> s/egress/ext_if/
18:21 < mlarkin> thats what you have defined
18:21 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Neither works.
18:21 < mlarkin> and obviously you are pfctl -ef /etc/pf.conf right  ? after changes?
18:21 < xoddf2> mlarkin: Yes
18:22 < mlarkin> dunno then. start from basics. wipe pf.conf and redo it line by line. something in there is blocking something and you're gonna need to revert to stock pf.conf, add the nat-to line, see if that works, then build all your blocking on top.
18:23 < mlarkin> something's out of order or wrong.
18:23 < thrig> also logging, etc
18:23 < mlarkin> my pf.conf is literally like 5 lines
18:23 < mlarkin> and I more or less have a datacenter on my laptop with all these VMs
18:23 < mlarkin> have rdr-to, forwarding for service VMs, etc.. it "just works".
18:24 < mlarkin> my VMs on my main machine are assigned tapX on start, with local dhcp running on a vport in the same veb as the tapXs . the vport is then in a trunk that does failover between ethernet and wireless.
18:25 < mlarkin> incoming rules in pf.conf redirect inbound connections to various VMs (media server, IDS, ingress VM running relayd, etc)
18:26 < xoddf2> mlarkin: "pass out on {tap0, tap1, tap2} from 100.64.0.0/10 to any nat-to (egress)" doesn't work either, nor does "[...] nat-to (re0)".
18:26 < mlarkin> pass out on re0 from 100.64.0.0/10 to any nat-to (re0)   
18:26 < mlarkin> ?
18:27 < mlarkin> grasping at straws
18:27 < xoddf2> mlarkin: That one doesn't work either.
18:27 < mlarkin> ok. start over.
18:27 < mlarkin> cp /etc/examples/pf.conf /etc/pf.conf      and add things one at a time
18:28 < mlarkin> cos the FAQ works. tested hundreds of times.
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18:32 < sonya> pass out on {tap0, tap1, tap2}  to any nat-to (egress)
18:32 < sibiria> try commenting out your antispoof clause and changing the VM routing from the state-agnostic "match" to "pass out quick on $ext_if from 100.64.0.0/10 to any nat-to ($ext_if)
18:33 < mlarkin> ^ good ideas
18:33 < sibiria> keep in mind that MATCH will not alter anything regarding pass or block state
18:33 < mlarkin> basically I suggest returning to basics, and adding rules one at a time
18:33 < sonya> antispoof should be the last line
18:34 < sibiria> imo MATCH is best left for stuff like getting scrubbing and id randomization going. not for stuff that may depend on state
18:34 < sibiria> using MATCH for anything like routing or passing/blocking traffic is counter-intuitive
18:35 < sonya> and i'd avoid egress (as group) and replaced as $ext_if
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18:36 < sibiria> i prefer explicit interface naming as well. i save the group names for things like deploying into the wild where i may not know what interface the virtual machine might end up with
18:37 < mlarkin> sibiria: yeah, this is hard though on laptops that roam between wireless and ethernet, which is why my "external" interface is a trunk
18:37 < mlarkin> otherwise you need to edit pf.conf each time you roam
18:37 < sibiria> certainly has its ideal use-cases
18:37 < mlarkin> egress might work there though
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18:48 < xoddf2> sibiria: That didn't work either, with or without quick.
18:49 < xoddf2> sonya: That didn't work either.
18:52 < sibiria> just to underline, the only thing you need for routing from your VMs is that one nat-to from the carrier private net to your egress
18:52 < sibiria> so something else is interfering
18:53 < sibiria> how do you specify the VMs' network?
18:53 < sibiria> just a simple "local interface tapN"?
18:53 < xoddf2> sibiria: "local interface"
18:53 < sibiria> ok, same same. and they look normal if you have a look-see with ifconfig on the host?
18:54 < xoddf2> sibiria: Yes
18:54 < sibiria> i.e. inet 100.64.1.2, .2.2, .3.2 etc.
18:54 < sibiria> i presume you can ping .1.3, .2.3, etc. from the host, too?
18:54 < xoddf2> sibiria: Yes
18:55 < sibiria> can the VMs ping the internal interface of the host?
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18:55 < xoddf2> sibiria: Yes
18:56 < sibiria> ah that's the loopback actually
18:56 < sibiria> can they ping the inet of the external if?
18:57 < xoddf2> sibiria: ?
18:58 < sibiria> re0 must have an address, surely
18:58 < sibiria> the VMs should be able to ping it
18:58 < xoddf2> sibiria: That worked.
18:58 < sibiria> they don't need to go out and back on the Internet for that. it will be caught immediately as the packets enter
18:58 < sibiria> at this point i suggest the same as mlarkin, go back to basics and begin with a ruleset simply letting you go out on the internet, and routing traffic from the vmnet
18:59 < Minall> Hello OpenBSD!, is there anyone using FVWM?, I see in the documentation (at least on the page) it mentions a FVWMCommand, with a broken link and, nothing that I can find on man
18:59 < Bradipo> I use fvwm from base.
19:00 < Bradipo> What document are you talking about?
19:01 < Minall> Bradipo: I'm reading about, and I'm reading a lot to configure it: https://www.fvwm.org/Wiki/Config/Commands/ <- Here it mentions about a FvwmConsole and FvwmCommand modules
19:01 < Bradipo> https://man.openbsd.org/fvwm
19:01 < Bradipo> The documentation on fvwm.org is almost certainly not relevant to what's in OpenBSD's base fvwm.
19:01 < Minall> And I want to use some commands via the CLI just to see its effects, but I can't find much about it
19:02 < Minall> Oh, yeah and I think the base is another version as I understand
19:02 < Bradipo> There is a different fvwm in ports though if you want to install that.
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19:02 < Minall> Bradipo: In base, is there a way to run CLI commands and talk to fvwm?
19:02 < Minall> (As I would like to keep base)
19:02 < mlarkin> sibiria: xoddf2: might be some old junk stale routes also
19:03 < sibiria> it's possible
19:03 < mlarkin> reboot and try again :)
19:03 < Bradipo> Minall: Not sure, I've never tried.
19:03 < Bradipo> Some of the commands that are in base are in /usr/X11/lib/X11/fvwm.
19:04 < Bradipo> But I don't think they are meant to be run from the command line.
19:05 < uwharrie> and if you don't need them to be fvwm specific and are willing to install packages, there's x11/wmctl and x11/xdotool
19:05 < Bradipo> You might try FvwmTalk
19:05 < Minall> uwharrie: thanks
19:05 < Minall> Bradipo: Oh, this may be what I want, let me take a look
19:06 < Bradipo> man FvwmTalk on your system.
19:06 < Minall> Or not: 'FvwmTalk is spawned by fvwm, so no command line invocation will work.'
19:06 < Bradipo> As I said, you cannot run from command line.
19:06 < Bradipo> But you can start FvwmTalk from the FVWM menu.
19:06 < Bradipo> And it opens a window in which you can type FVWM commands.
19:08 < xoddf2> mlarkin, sibiria: The VMs can ping IP addresses within the LAN manually, but nothing else works.
19:09 < Minall> Bradipo: Not exactly what I want but well, Imma install FVWM from the ports to test
19:09 < Minall> (Sorry if I disconnect in any point)
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19:09 < mlarkin> xoddf2: at this point nobody knows what you have in pf.conf . did you delete everything and start from basics and just add one single nat-to line at the bottom of a stock pf.conf?
19:09 < mlarkin> otherwise, trying to diagnose further is pointless
19:10 < sibiria> xoddf2: just try something basic, like this: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/d262a591
19:10 < mlarkin> yes. ^ this
19:10 < mlarkin> if that doesnt allow you complete nat traffic then you've got something else going on.
19:11 < sibiria> with that, try pinging e.g. 9.9.9.9 from within a VM
19:12 < xoddf2> sibiria: Neither DNS nor pinging 9.9.9.9 works with that pf.conf.  /cc mlarkin
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19:12 < mlarkin> reboot and try again. im thinking old routes
19:12 < sibiria> then you have an issue entirely outside your pf ruleset
19:12 < mlarkin> (use same pf.conf)
19:13 < mlarkin> and if that doesnt work then yes, what sibiria said is right, something external to the machine is f'ed.
19:14 < Bradipo> Have you tried using tcpdump yet to see what's going on with the various interfaces?
19:16 < sibiria> xoddf2: and dns not working from within the VM would be expected here, since nothing deals with that traffic in the ruleset. you can just stop+disable resolvd in the VM and explicitly set "nameserver 9.9.9.9" in its resolv.conf
19:17 < sibiria> you don't need to capture dns traffic in the host's pf rules unless you really want to steer lookups in a certain direction
19:17 < sibiria> for example to unbound running on the host, or similar
19:18 < sibiria> gotta skedaddle, good luck with the networking
19:18 < xoddf2> sibiria: Thanks \o
19:18 < xoddf2> The VM can't ping anything after a reboot.
19:18 < xoddf2> (of the host)
19:19 < mlarkin> you've got something else going on then
19:19 < mlarkin> thats the simplest pf.conf and it should work basically 100% of the time
19:20 < mlarkin> tcpdump on vio0 inside the vm
19:20 < mlarkin> tcpdump on tap0 on the host
19:20 < mlarkin> tcpdump on re0 on the host
19:20 < mlarkin> run those in 3 windows
19:20 < mlarkin> do a ping from the vm
19:20 < mlarkin> see where it goes
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19:24 < sd0> sysctl net.inet.ip.forwarding ?
19:25 < xoddf2> sd0: That has been 1 this entire time.
19:28 < IcePic> ..on the host or the guest?
19:28 < xoddf2> IcePic: The former
19:29 < IcePic> ok
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19:48 < vxla> Has anyone tried RackMatrix boards as replacements to apu?
19:48 < vxla> https://store.rack-matrix.com/en/motherboards/1586-noah-4-firewall-router-motherboard-intel-e3845-4-cores-191-ghz.html
19:56 < k0ga> vxla: no need to replace my apu4 yet
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20:22 < vortexx> vxla: haven't heard of those, let me take a look
20:23 < vortexx> depends on your use case but that's way too slow for me on the ethernet ports and I wonder if the cpu can deliver gigabit speed on OpenBSD
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21:43 < seninha> Hi, bwfm(4) says at §CAVEATS: “The firmware is outdated and contains known vulnerabilities”.  How vulnerable are those known vulnerabilities?
21:43 < seninha> (bah, that sounds as a vague question)
21:44 < seninha> Well, the listed caveats at the manual is quite vague as well...
21:45 < seninha> “Would you daily use on airport and public wireless networks a Broadcomm NIC with such driver?” is better worded.
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21:53 < Bradipo> Well...
21:54 < Bradipo> If all your traffic is encrypted before it hits the bwfm NIC, what's the concern? :-)
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22:23 < Bradipo> Can anyone explain why when you edit multiple files in vi(1), pressing backspace opens up the next file in a split buffer?
22:24 < Bradipo> e.g. vi /tmp/file{1,2,3}; # then press backspace
22:24 < Bradipo> It will split the screen and show file1 and file2 edits.
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22:25 < Bradipo> If you press backspace yet again, it will say "No more files to edit" which isn't really true because there's file3.
22:26 < Bradipo> Hmm, seems it might be a bug.
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22:31 < Bradipo> Per man page: For e, fg, n, prev, ta, and vi, if the first letter of the command is capitalized, the current screen is split and the new file is displayed in addition to the current screen.
22:31 < Bradipo> So, :N should open the next file in the current screen with a split.
22:32 < Bradipo> If I have 3 files that I'm editing, and I use :N 2 times, I should have 2 splits (3 files in view).
22:33 < Bradipo> And, for whatever reason, backspace in VI mode seems to be invoking :N
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22:41 < thrig> ^? isn't a vi command
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23:20 < emmanuelux> hello just upgrade to 7.8 on proxmox, the boot process is 10s longer (a timeout?) with "pciide0 : channel 0 disabled (no drives), pciide0 : channel 1 disabled (no drives)"
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23:24 < thrig> the device could maybe be disabled
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23:29 < emmanuelux> yes how ? :)
23:29 < emmanuelux> show go to proxmox
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23:30 < emmanuelux> should*
23:31 < thrig> config(8) can mangle a kernel for you
23:34 < emmanuelux> the 10s timeout is not very important 
23:34 < emmanuelux> network seems far better
23:34 < emmanuelux> i have 20 gbps now with veb stable
23:37 < emmanuelux> with 7% cpu
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23:44 < emmanuelux> thanks to openbsd team
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--- Log closed Sat Oct 25 00:00:45 2025