--- Log opened Sun Nov 02 00:00:25 2025
--- Day changed Sun Nov 02 2025
00:00 < oldlaptop> (And works reasonably well IME - but I have 10+ year old thinkpads. It's still tended to work on random junk I've had cause to boot OpenBSD on from time to time, but mileage certainly can vary.)
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00:29 < vortexx> ssm_: not everyone runs their laptop as a ghetto server
00:29 < vortexx> (and yes I have done this)
00:31 < vortexx> Posterdati: the label may be misleading, as in added possibly as a joke or something else. You need CPU-Z if the Winserver 2003 still boots to double check, or boot some linux to check it
00:36 < oldlaptop> or, you know, boot openbsd/i386, look at dmesg
00:39 < ssm_> <not everyone runs their laptop as a ghetto server> my laptop is not a "ghetto server", it is a clean, moist, italian server for pigeons, and maybe a rat if they make good pasta.
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02:09 < vortexx> ssm_: you're making me wonder how you'd/you run a server room with remarks like that. To each their own.
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08:49 < cli> greetings
08:53 < quinq> hi
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09:19 < cli> for a second, assume that I want to install sets after the fact. How should install them?
09:19 < cli> By booting bsd.rd, of course
09:19 < cli> but WHAT IF I don't want to boot bsd.rd
09:19 < cli> what about tar xf setxx.tgz ?
09:19 < cli> is that an inherently bad idea?
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09:21 < cgnarne> that works, you have to get the flags for tar right tho
09:21 < CosmicDJ> cli: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade78.html#NoInstKern has the commands for a manual upgrade
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09:22 < cli> thanks :)
09:22 < CosmicDJ> cli: and yes, just "tar xf" is a bad idea
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09:31 < rnkn> CosmicDJ: why?
09:33 < cgnarne> it will fuck permissions and ownership for the extracted files
09:34 < rnkn> what is the proper way?
09:35 < cgnarne> read the link CosmicDJ posted
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09:54 < remiliascarlet> rnkn: "what is the proper way?" To fuck permissions and ownerships? I guess if you're a guy with a condom, and if you're a girl with the pill.
09:57 < echelon> condoms don't protect you from the girl with herpes
10:00 < zbcm> I'm pretty sure extracting the sets is fine and I have done so myself with no issues. They are just a tar'd directory structure; it's beautifully simple
10:02 < echelon> then what did i get this dental dam for
10:07 < TommyC> Safe oral sex.
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10:31 < Posterdati> vortexx: som em64t does not involve a 64 bit cpu... :(
10:32 < Posterdati> em64t = memory address space to 64 bit
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10:36 < quinq> So, were you able to boot the x86 as suggested?
10:36 < cgnarne> so did you try x86?
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10:41 < Posterdati> quinq: no I didn't try the machine is in my office, so I will try tomorrow! :)
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10:46 < quinq> ok :)
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10:47 < Posterdati> I prepared a 7.8 for i386 install78.img
10:47 < Posterdati> on cdrw
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12:29 < oldlaptop> <Posterdati> vortexx: som em64t does not involve a 64 bit cpu... :(
12:29 < oldlaptop> <Posterdati> em64t = memory address space to 64 bit
12:29 < oldlaptop> "EM64T" is what Intel calls (or at least called) its implementation of amd64. It absolutely does "involve a 64 bit CPU" - the major definition of which would involve a 64-bit memory address space.
12:29 < oldlaptop> Equally certainly, a "Xeon" from about 2002 is not an "EM64T" CPU.
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12:32 < oldlaptop> (technically amd64 as implemented by real CPUs still doesn't reeeeeeally have a real 64-bit address space, it only uses 48 bits worth of those pointers. But never mind that - a Xeon from the year before AMD first shipped AMD64 does not implement Intel's copy of AMD64, Intel circa 2002 not having invented time-travelling corporate espionage yet.)
12:35 < Posterdati> oldlaptop: em64t is one of the summary infos from that machine bios
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12:36 < Posterdati> oldlaptop: the bios is from 2002
12:36 < Posterdati> oldlaptop: https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/overview-ibm-eserver-xseries-226-type-8488
12:37 < oldlaptop> "Processor: Xeon"
12:37 < oldlaptop> DDR2 would be LONG after 2002.
12:37 < oldlaptop> *That* sounds like around the right time to be amd64.
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12:38 < oldlaptop> ("It has a Xeon" on the other hand has approximately no informational content.)
12:39 < oldlaptop> 3.4GHz is also not a plausible 2002 clock speed. (It's IIRC even towards the upper end for late-netburst xeons.)
12:41 < oldlaptop> Probably still one of the earliest intel amd64 machines.
12:41 < oldlaptop> 2006-ish, not 2002.
12:43 < Posterdati> oldlaptop: bios reports to be from 2002
12:44 < Posterdati> I think they never updated it
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12:49 < elarks1> That case looks very similar to the IBM Aptiva we had in 2001
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12:56 < Posterdati> oldlaptop: if I could install an OpenBSD on it I can run dmidecode and see what is it :)
12:56 < Posterdati> lo
12:56 < Posterdati> lol
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13:01 < oldlaptop> elarks: Apple used the PowerMac G5 case for a good decade and change too :P
13:01 < oldlaptop> rearranged inside a fair bit over that time, I guess
13:01 < elarks> Our machine had 512mb of RAM and a Pentium 4
13:02 < oldlaptop> ("Aptiva" means "desktop", I guess? as opposed to a server in which the same chip would have been called "Xeon")
13:03 < oldlaptop> Posterdati: You'll presumably find it's a late-netburst Xeon. What would have been called either "Pentium 4" or possibly "Pentium D" if it was sold in a desktop.
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13:12 < Posterdati> I think I found the exact machine from the case: https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/overview-ibm-eserver-xseries-225
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13:12 < Posterdati> the machine I own has got SCSI drives
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13:19 < Posterdati> seems that ibm supports sco unix :)
13:19 < Posterdati> on that machine
13:20 < Posterdati> I have an original license
13:20 < Posterdati> for 7.0.1
13:23 < Posterdati> ok this is defenitely a 64 bit machine since it is a xeon supporting em64t
13:23 < Posterdati> but this machine has got only 1 GB of ram...
13:25 < oldlaptop> Sounds about right-ish for the time.
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13:32 < Posterdati> oldlaptop: cannot see it booting windows 2000 server :)
13:32 < Posterdati> oldlaptop: I have to cure it, you understand...
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15:30 < Posterdati> please help, is anyone using arm-none-eabi under OpenBSD to compile for embedded arm? I cannot compile c++ code (compiler could not find stl includes).
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15:40 < jca> Posterdati: what makes you think you can compile C++ for this target?
15:40 < jca> and why are you trying to do that...
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15:42 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, what is the error text
15:42 < ali_rahbar_77> ?
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15:44 < Posterdati> ../includes/error.hpp:35:10: fatal error: exception: No such file or directory
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15:48 < ali_rahbar_77> are you using GCC?
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16:11 < i00nsu> Helllo. Somewhere in documentationtell us to chflags schg /etc/resolv.conf .. to remove this flags, manual say to use the keyword, "noschg" .. I always get "permission denied" ( as root ) 
16:12 < i00nsu> in fact the error message is "Operation not permitted" 
16:13 < i00nsu> what I am doing wrong? 
16:13 < mischief> you can only change it in lower securelevels. you can do it in single-user mode.
16:13 < mischief> man 7 securelevel
16:17 < Posterdati> ali_baba: arm-none-eabi IS gcc
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16:34 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: arm-none-eabi IS gcc
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16:36 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, ".hpp" files are old stdlib. newer stdlib's header files don't have extension
16:37 < ali_rahbar_77> i don't know about your project file hierarchy. but maybe "error.hpp" is a external dependency (but not stdlib, rather some other external dependency)
16:38 < humm> ali_rahbar_77: pre-standardization, some more header files had a .h suffix (iostream.h); this is about the <exception> header, though
16:38 < humm> “../includes/error.hpp:35:10:” means that there is an error inside error.hpp; i.e., that error.hpp does exist (and presumably is just part of the sources)
16:43 < jca> and we have no idea where this error.hpp comes from, ie we don't know what Posterdati is trying to build and why it would be meaningful to do that
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17:00 < Posterdati> jca: no, the .hpp file has got an include directive like #include <exception> but the compiler can not find it
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17:01 < jca> we could infer that already ;)
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17:01 < Posterdati> the arm-none-eabi* packages have no c++ includes at all
17:09 < jca> < jca> and we have no idea where this error.hpp comes from, ie we don't know what Posterdati is trying to build and why it would be meaningful to do that
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17:12 < ali_rahbar_77> jca, yes, the build options are important, and we don't know them
17:12 < jca> building C++ code that uses exceptions for a bare-metal target seems like a task for a seasoned hacker that knows it's going to be painful.
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17:13 < jca> I'm starting to feel like Posterdati likes to waste our time
17:14 < humm> well, <exception> is part of the freestanding subset of C++
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17:32 < Posterdati> humm: arm-none-eabi g++ seems it cannot find <exception> to include
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17:33 < vortexx> Posterdati: if you'd like further help, a pastebin and explanations on what exactly you're compiling and on what would help us
17:36 < humm> the answer seems pretty clear already—there’s no libc++ or libstdc++ for arm-none-eabi-gcc in ports
17:36 < nanach1> is there a port of the android USB tools to android? 
17:36 < nanach1> *openbsd
17:36 < humm> nanach1: a very old version as devel/adb
17:37 < nanach1> thanks for the quick response. sorry to interrupt
17:37 < Posterdati> humm: its seems so, on freebsd they used a different package like gcc-embedded-*
17:37 < humm> pkglocate is your friend
17:37 < Posterdati> which provide those libraries for arm development
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17:38 < nanach1> ah, pkglocate! forgot about that. i'm coming back to openbsd after a while of not using it
17:40 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, what about this: find / | grep exception
17:40 < ali_rahbar_77> ?
17:40 < humm> or even better: use pkglocate
17:40 < Posterdati> alip: exception is in the standard library for g++
17:41 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: exception is in the standard library for g++, it would not be used by arm-none-eabi-g++
17:41 < humm> “standard library for g++” is an oxymoron: it’s in the C++ standard library, defined in the C++ standard (hence its name)
17:41 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, i'm not sure about that
17:41 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: I am
17:42 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: added the correct path using -I and it won't use it
17:42 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, so you mean  arm-none-eabi-g++ is not standard?
17:43 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: no, I'm telling you it can use it's own includes
17:43 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: /usr/local/arm-none-eabi/include
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18:00 < Posterdati> ah ok
18:00 < Posterdati> found
18:00 < Posterdati> OpenBSD missing something like libstdc++-arm-none-eabi-newlib
18:02 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, so you have to make it yourself?
18:04 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: it could not working with the toolchain
18:05 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, but i don't think the packagers have missed such important package
18:06 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: yes, it is odd
18:06 < Posterdati> ali_rahbar_77: maybe they called it with another name
18:06 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, yea, i was thinking the same
18:06 < Posterdati> or provide those files under another package
18:06 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, yes
18:08 < humm> that’s what pkglocate can tell you
18:08 < Posterdati> humm: yes, I'm checking right now
18:08 < Posterdati> humm: thanks, I didn't think about that
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18:08 < Posterdati> ok
18:09 < Posterdati> there's a libcxx-19.1.7:devel/llvm/19,-libcxx:/usr/local/llvm19/include/c++/v1/__locale_dir/locale_base_api/newlib.h
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18:13 < Posterdati> nothing
18:14 < humm> that’s the answer
18:14 < Posterdati> yes
18:14 < Posterdati> can't use OpenBSD to code baremetal arm :)
18:14 < humm> you can just use C, of course
18:15 < humm> but you can also build your own libstdc++ or libc++
18:15 < Posterdati> yes, I can tell to the already writte project to magically convert to c++ :)
18:15 < humm> (libstdc++ is part of the gcc sources; the arm-none-eabi-gcc port disables it; idk why)
18:15 < ali_rahbar_77> Posterdati, try to search inside the package manager for std lib
18:15 < humm> ali_rahbar_77: that’s what they just did
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18:53 < vortexx> Posterdati: there was no answer to this post but maybe it'll help: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=172460818614932&w=2
18:54 < vortexx> (which implies modifying the port)
18:56 < Posterdati> vortexx: thanks, but my problem seems to be the same for the freebsd: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/arm-none-eabi-gcc-does-not-see-standard-libraries.80772/
18:57 < Posterdati> I solved installing gcc-arm-embedded for freebsd (on a freebsd machine)
18:57 < Posterdati> in the past I was able to compile baremetal arm projects using c++
18:57 < Posterdati> and I was able to write the .elf on the target too using openocd
18:58 < Posterdati> consider that OpenBSD 7.x is faster compilimg stuff :) then I prefer over Linuxes and BSDs.
19:00 < Posterdati> OpenBSD = reliability, never had a filesystem corruption or data loss from 6.0 I think :)
19:00 < Posterdati> I do not understand why some people complained about this
19:01 < Posterdati> if something happened was due to my fault
19:01 < Posterdati> or hardware failures
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19:14 < Posterdati> vortexx: would be nice to use that xeon machine to compile my embedded projects :)
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20:56 < vortexx> has something changed from 7.7 to 7.8 with nsd? I'm getting zone transfer errors "not-verified" on master end and received error code REFUSED on the slave end
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20:58 < sibiria> it was a pretty big minor version jump from 7.7
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21:21 < jca> indeed, 4.9.1 -> 4.13.0
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21:23 < vortexx> ok, I'll have to reread some manpages
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 03 00:00:58 2025