--- Log opened Wed Nov 05 00:00:01 2025
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00:01 < asji> got it, thanks
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00:12 < asji> found this site that explain a lot: openbsdjumpstart.org
00:16 < uwharrie> the project generally discourages third party sites and docs as they're rarely kept up-to-date or take down incorrect information
00:16 < pardis> that's not a website, it's a pathological case of CSS abuse
00:17 < averymt> oh my gosh, that's terrible
00:17 < averymt> I didn't even realize there were multiple "pages" until I tried to scroll to see if there was more content below
00:18 < pardis> the fun bit is that you can't use Ctrl+F to find stuff you haven't already "scrolled" to
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00:23 < ssm_> asji: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/index.html is the best official learning resource. also read the mail from theo (he hacked your machine personally) with mail(1).
00:27 < thrig> hack the planet?
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00:29 < ssm_> he has the secret openbsd zero day to send the initial mail he'll share with nobody. it's so powerful it can even be sent with no network connection
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00:49 < rtj> ssm_: telepathy I think. Great way to send bug reports. 
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02:14 < rnkn> can I create an rc.d script to chroot a webserver? I see there is daemon_execdir but no mention of chroot
02:15  * fro is away, auto-gone [tv/lp]
02:15 < phy1729> fro: turn that off please
02:15 < rnkn> I've had a loot at rc.d/httpd but doesn't seem anything relevant there
02:15 < rnkn> look*
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02:16 < phy1729> chrooting before exec is tricky because all the config and libraries need to be in the chroot.
02:17 < rnkn> the libraries are fine, but does it also need login.conf?
02:17 < rnkn> i.e. I need to start the daemon with certain env vars
02:18 < rnkn> AI says just chroot /path/to/chroot in the start() but that seems... too simple
02:20 < phy1729> Why can't the daemon chroot itself (or pledge/unveil)
02:21 < rnkn> it doesn't have those kind of commands, it's a Perl app
02:22 < rnkn> also I would have a hard time developing locally that way
02:22 < averymt> I think you'd just copy an existing one from rc.d and replace the `rc_cmd $1` with `rc_cmd chroot /path/to/chroot $1`
02:23 < averymt> ah nvm, I misread that
02:23 < phy1729> You can pledge/unveil from perl with  OpenBSD::Pledge  OpenBSD::Unveil  dunno about chroot, but I'd assume that's possible too
02:24 < averymt> change `daemon=` to `/usr/sbin/chroot` and add `/path/to/chroot /path/to/daemon ` to the beginning of daemon_flags
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02:24 < averymt> or, yeah, figure out how to chroot in perl
02:25 < phy1729> man perlfunc documents a chroot function
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02:26 < rnkn> yeah again I don't want to chroot in the app itself
02:26 < rnkn> this is what I got https://termbin.com/bem2
02:27 < rnkn> does daemon_execdir need to be inside the chroot?
02:27 < rnkn> it would seem likely
02:27 < Reinhilde> phy1729, i'm ngl, the script is kinda cool. not saying i don't think they should turn it off, only that i find it aesthetic.
02:28 < phy1729> It'd really suck for 700 people to announce when they go idle
02:29  * Reinhilde . o O ( maybe an IRCv3 extension could be devised so that in 5 to 10 years' time, after installed base churn, awayscript users and awayscript haters can get along )
02:30 < Reinhilde> ... !!! OS/2!!??!!??
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03:07 < averymt> is an awayscript even useful/necessary? can't you already set a status when you go into away, similar to how you can give a quit reason?
03:10 < Reinhilde> you can; I'm not entirely sure what the use is except vanity
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03:22 < thrig> some folks are noisier than others
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03:27 < izder456> is there a way to see gpu temp for amd gpus? radeontop nor the hw.sensors sysctl have anything useful for me
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05:04 < deimosBSD> izder456: I don't remember seeing anything
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05:12 < izder456> dang this is unfortunate
05:15 < deimosBSD> i'm going by my experience running on servers with discrete gpus
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05:33 < deimosBSD> i haven't tried on a desktop lately
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06:14 < rnkn> I'm trying to mount Perl lib paths inside /var/www but the mount command just hangs, I've done this before so I know there's a daemon I'm supposed to enable but I've forgotten which
06:14 < rnkn> I've already enabled/started nfsd
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06:19 < rnkn> okay I've enabled/started portmap and now I get: NFS Portmap: RPC: Program not registered
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06:25 < rnkn> oh I think I just needed to restart nfsd
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06:31 < vortexx> rnkn: mountdvis probably needed too
06:32 < vortexx> s/mountdvis/mountd is
06:32 < rnkn> vortexx: yep you're right
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07:04 < rnkn> is there anything wrong with this login.conf entry? https://termbin.com/ikk9
07:05 < rnkn> it doesn't seem to be using those environment vars when started with rcctl
07:07 < IcePic> rnkn: does it set the first, or none at all?
07:08 < rnkn> oh sorry, I didn't see that the login class needs to be the same name as the daemon. duh.
07:08 < IcePic> yeah, that helps =)
07:09 < rnkn> progress! onto the next error!
07:09 < rnkn> sorry for the noise
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07:12 < IcePic> rnkn: well, someone might learn to check this one extra time when they do similar stuff as you do
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07:58 < _Posterdati_> hi
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10:27 < dennis> Does anyone know why the atime of my tty (/dev/ttyXX) is continously updated when logging in through ssh on openbsd? If I do `sleep 5; date; stat $(tty)` in a tty opened through ssh, {a,c,m}time are all current. If I open a tty through tmux, only {c,m}time is current, and atime is 5s ago.
10:28 < dennis> If I do the same on Linux (Ubuntu 22.04), only mtime is kept current, ctime is when the tty was started, and atime is 5s ago
10:31 < dennis> (and it behaves the same for a tty opened through ssh or tmux)
10:32 < dennis> I would expect atime to be set the same way for a tty opened through ssh as for a tty opened through tmux, but it's not. Is ssh "continuously accessing" the tty or something, causing atime to always be current?
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11:03 < _Posterdati_> hi
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11:04 < _Posterdati_> openbsd rocks it is the only BSD's installing on an old eserver xserver 225 with serveraid crap on it :)
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11:21 < rnkn> is it okay to store secrets in login.conf if it's 0600?
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11:32 < vortexx> Posterdati: so you managed to get it all working despite no more adaptec raid drivers? ( IcePic I wasn't aware they'd been removed but I'm not surprised)
11:33 < vortexx> my raid card which is avago/broadcom died yesterday :/
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12:20 < pmb> sibiria got ACME.sh up and running, simple and nice to get rid of python as it was only used for certbot. thx
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13:22 < _Posterdati_> now I'd like to download: ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/systems/support/system_x_iso/ibm_fw_bios_ope151c_anyos_i386.iso
13:22 < _Posterdati_> but firefox can open a ftps site :(
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13:25 < ssm_> _Posterdati_: ftp(1) work?
13:25 < ssm_> wait I can literally just test it myself
13:26 < ssm_> ftp -a doesn't work, 550 SSL/TLS required on the control channel. guess it really needs tls despite the schema implying plain ftp
13:26 < _Posterdati_> ?
13:26 < _Posterdati_> ftp1
13:28 < ssm_> ftps is different from sftp, right? I don't think we have an ftps client in base...
13:28 < Reinhilde> sftp is over ssh
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13:30 < sibiria> correct. ftps is conventional ftp over tls, with all its usual warts
13:30 < sibiria> command port + data ports, active/passive mode, and so on
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13:36 < ssm_> ironically ftp(1) supports tls, but only for http connections
13:37 < ssm_> maybe easy to shim over to ftp support?
13:39 < pardis> seems like a waste of time given that ftp has been slowly dying for decades
13:40 < ssm_> netcraft confirms?
13:41 < ssm_> I'd use ftps over https any day if our mirrors served it. plain ftp permits ISP-level tampering :(
13:41 < ssm_> also I assume ftps doesn't have the http header fingerprinting cruft, not that that's particularly important here
13:41 < pardis> why? it's a rubbish protocol from the days when the internet was a few dozen large universities and corporations
13:42 < pardis> and no tampering is permitted with the mirrors due to cryptographic verification
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13:43 < ssm_> are the checksums also transported insecurely? because then it's very easy to tamper with those too
13:43 < pardis> they are signed with signify(1)
13:43 < ssm_> right
13:43 < ssm_> yay! I can use ftp
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13:47 < mischief> maybe its in https://www3.software.ibm.com/storage/ as well
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13:59 < _Posterdati_> mischief: mmh thanks, but no luck
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14:03 < mischief> why don't you just retire the machine
14:03 < _Posterdati_> this not my machine :)
14:04 < sibiria> retire the customer until they shape up
14:04 < Reinhilde> xD?
14:04 < _Posterdati_> impossible, it is a paying customer :)
14:04 < sibiria> xD.
14:04 < sibiria> great, then that dysfunctional server is a cash cow
14:05 < _Posterdati_> exactly
14:05 < _Posterdati_> we are talking about emotional people here!
14:05 < _Posterdati_> so OpenBSD is just a step before using it as a bench
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14:06 < _Posterdati_> anyway
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14:06 < _Posterdati_> this is the only UNIX like OS working on that dynosaur
14:06 < mischief> a used $100 computer would probably run circles around an i386 from early aughts
14:06 < _Posterdati_> sure
14:06 < _Posterdati_> but no tape backups :)
14:06 < _Posterdati_> LOL
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14:07 < mischief> conveniently, non-tape backups run circles around tape too
14:08 < asji> Hello. Does slaacd is necessary if I am not using IPv6 ? 
14:10 < pardis> no, but it will also do nothing while using few resources anyway, so disabling it will provide little gain
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14:11 < Reinhilde> if I'm understanding the purpose correctly: disabling it will mean IPv6 won't come up automatically if it becomes available on your network suddenly
14:11 < asji> my perspective is: if is not needed, why i should be running? Is not to improve or gain something. Is just to know if i can disable without loosing something. 
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14:12 < pardis> Reinhilde: it won't do anything unless autoconf6 is set on an interface
14:12 < Reinhilde> ah
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14:15 < sibiria> asji: you can disable it. but you will need to use static gateway for your clients
14:16 < sibiria> static IP, prefix, gateway
14:16 < asji> sibiria: I am using dhcp, but I define static gateway in /etc/mygate 
14:16 < pardis> you don't need to use a static ipv6 gateway if not using ipv6 at all, which was the premise of the question
14:16 < sibiria> if you use dhcp generally you have no reason to use slaacd next to it
14:16 < pardis> what?
14:17 < asji> Ok
14:17 < pardis> ipv6 can certainly be useful alongside ipv4
14:17 < sibiria> he implies dhcp6
14:17 < pardis> no he doesn't
14:17 < pardis> he already clearly stated he isn't using ipv6
14:17 < sibiria> oh, then absolutely no need to run it at all
14:19 < sibiria> right, "if i'm not using ipv6"
14:19 < k0ga> _Posterdati_: what computer is that one?
14:19 < k0ga> I am curious ^^!
14:20 < asji> just another question while exploring obsd features: Is EIGRPCTL needed for "common and regular users" ? Or this daemon is to configure big infra? 
14:20 < Reinhilde> how do you reckon you aren't using ipv6?
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14:29 < sibiria> asji: you don't need it for basic/common use
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14:33 < asji> There is a lot of Routing daemons of obsd. I am exploring the Innoventions list.. most everything is new to me.. more questions will come :) 
14:38 < sibiria> eipgrd shouldn't be running out of the box
14:38 < sibiria> ok to not explicitly disable everything
14:41 < asji> without "you" telling me I can, I will not, enable or disable, anything. But I see there are some ( at least 3 ) routing daemons. If they are useful to me as a common user, I don't know, but man pages don't explicitly describe if "common users need it", since most, based on what I read, seams to be to manage several routers. So is not for my use cases
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14:53 < pardis> generally, things that aren't on by default shouldn't be turned on unless you know you need it
14:53 < uwharrie> This system neither attempts to hand hold you through everything both simple and complex, nor hides things it's decided are too complicated for you to touch. If it's useful to either the developers or a large majority of users, it'll be on by default in a safe/unobtrusive configuration. If it's a specialty situation, you'll know you need it
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15:30 < asji> httpd is off by default, but any user can set it up, since anyone can wish to serve a html page or someting more complex.. the relayd can be useful too, unbound too, but not much.. I mean, the pf is really awesome and other small packages/services are not really common. EVen the vmd is a bit out of common use.. about that: does vmm's take the amount of memory that we define to use, or memory usage is based 
15:30 < asji> on what vmm needs in real time? 
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15:42 < IcePic> hypervisors need more ram than what you give the guest. 
15:42 < sibiria> though i think the answer is the latter. vmctl will tally active used RAM for each guest, and i have a few that report notably less than their maximum
15:42 < IcePic> don't think vmm needs tons more, but all emulators and hypervisors have to give (or at least pretend to give) the guest all its ram and then some for overhead. qemu emulating a different cpu arch will probably use up even more
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15:45 < IcePic> if the guest decides not to use its ram, it might not show as usage, but if you use the VM to some degree, it should map in all ram sooner or later, especially if the OS uses a lot of randomization for which pages to use
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15:53 < IcePic> so since vmm isn't (that I am aware of?) using memory ballooning, what was once used by a guest but isn't now used will not be returned to the OS as free ram. It might get swapped out by the host or something, but not totally freed
15:54 < thrig> to test this one might run a virt that runs code that eats up memory
15:55 < thrig> (one such test program caused linux to wedge pretty hard, had to physically power cycle the box)
15:56 < IcePic> I remember testing xen when it first came out, using a torrent client was a good way to wedge a xen guest so one had to kill it off to get it back running
15:57 < thrig> granted I was running a lot of the memory-eating programs (that allocated a lot of memory and then flipped bits randomly in said memory) and the OOM killer might have been struggling to keep up, or something
15:59 < IcePic> theo used to test hibernate like that. start programs that eat ram and gets most of them to get swapped out, then SEGV all of them at the same time so the coredump procedure wants to map all in at the same time, then hibernate. Very evil, but found a lot of bugs and corner cases I gather
15:59 < thrig> oh these programs also had a lot of threads each doing the bit-flipping
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16:15 < anthk_> I know about man ksh(1), but how do arrays work?
16:16 < phy1729> it's under set -A
16:17 < thrig> if the shell script is complicated enough to need an array, I use a different language
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16:18 < Bradipo> Same here, though I will use the "$@" array to good effect until it becomes too unwieldy.
16:26 < k0ga> indeed (being awk a good candidate for that kind of tasks)
16:27 < thrig> "$@" and shift are rare exceptions
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16:42 < anthk_> por que una variable de fuera de un while vale 3 y si la uso dentro me vale 0?
16:43 < anthk_> ops, that was in Spanish somewhere else
16:43 < Bradipo> scope problem?
16:43 < anthk_> yep
16:43 < anthk_> there was some keywords for it
16:43 < anthk_> s,was,were
16:44 < anthk_> I declared the value for the loop outside of the while
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16:44 < anthk_> [[ $nl -gt 0 ]] inside the a while condition doesn't work with variables outside?
16:44 < thrig> another complication is what process what side of the while loop is in
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16:49 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/while.txt
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16:51 < anthk_> that was the reason on creating Perl right?
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16:54 < sibiria> anthk_: will work fine in the script itself
16:55 < sibiria> but it won't persist to a new process unless you bring it along in the environment
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16:58 < asji> reading about "unwind" let me think that I can use this, to add "adblocks" like a popular repository to block "hosts".. is this correct or I am not correct in my interpretation? 
17:00 < asji> sadly the man pages don't show the correct syntax for the example used "block list /etc/blocklist" file, to understand deeper how to use it 
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17:04 < asji> ah ok.. the syntax is explained in text format, not as an example.. but I am not sure if this can be used to that "block spam hosts" propose
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17:05 < asji> I guess is only to block domains.. which is more or less the same.. hosts file use the syntax 0.0.0.0 domain || this use the syntax .domain .. any feedback on this? 
17:08 < sibiria> it works just as described. you write one FQDN per line, and you can do a single infinite wildcard definition by starting with a period
17:08 < sibiria> .example.com means any number of subdomains below example.com
17:10 < puffybuf> asji: I use unwind to encrypt all my DNS queries, not sure if you can add hosts lists, but you can use a DNS that blocks ads like https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls
17:10 < asji> so in not incorrect use case, to use it for "blocking spam and ads", like the "ultimate blacklist". 
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17:11 < asji> oh.. ok, checking that
17:11 < asji> thanks!!
17:12 < Bradipo> puffybuf: Which is more likely?  That someone at your ISP is interested in your DNS queries?  Or that someone to whom you forward your DNS over HTTPS is interested in your DNS queries?
17:12 < puffybuf> Bradipo: well, everything is going over wireguard in my case
17:12 < Bradipo> Over wireguard to where?
17:12 < puffybuf> it is an easy way to block ad hosts
17:13 < Bradipo> The point of encrypting DNS isn't to block ad hosts.
17:14 < thrig> I have unbound scuttle the DNS queries off to 9.9.9.9 or one of those, encrypted
17:14 < puffybuf> Bradipo: do you use open wireless networks?
17:14 < Bradipo> No, but if I did, I would just use my own DNS resolver.
17:15 < Bradipo> But I suppose that's a fair point.  Are you sending your DNS to your own DNS resolver that you control?
17:15 < sibiria> asji: it's not an incorrect use. you don't have to use dns-over-tls if using unwind. it's an acceptable and simple solution for domain-based ad blocking on its own
17:15 < uwharrie> if you're doing split horizon DoT may make sense
17:16 < uwharrie> but I just stuff it all over wg to unbound running at home  as a root resolving without forwarding on to any megacorps
17:16 < Bradipo> I find that there are relatively few people who understand split horizon DNS, and even fewer that use it to any advantage. :-)
17:16 < asji> I am a very "primitive" user.. sometimes I use a "normal browser" because I cannot use some sites with w3m or elinks.. 
17:17 < asji> But yeah, when using luakit or chrome, I like a "clean" surf.. without too much ads annoying me 
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17:19 < sibiria> ublock origin is a fantastic plugin
17:19 < sibiria> and origin lite if one suffers from chromium
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17:23 < ssm_> webshit is uninvited from my install. meta/tor-browser is the only browser installed for class 6 biometrichazards 
17:23 < asji> I think luakit have something similar.. but i need to configure it.. sometimes i think chomium use too much resources.. but 
17:24 < asji> yeah.. to use some services, is the best choice
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17:31 < anthk_> luakit is' fine with some setting for acceleration
17:31 < anthk_> on chromium, git clone git://bitreich.org/privacy-haters
17:31 < anthk_> place the file inside the chrome/chromium directory at /etc/profile.d/chromium.sh
17:31 < anthk_> chmod +x it
17:32 < anthk_> and adapt the env vars to match the ones from the chromium package
17:32 < puffybuf> Bradipo: as for my wireguard relay: I buy mullvad cards off amazon, scratch off the code, then I connect to my mullvad account over tor onion link and add time. So even my they don't know exactly who I am
17:34 < Bradipo> Ok.
17:35 < byteskeptical> puffybuf: does Amazon count as nobody?
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17:40 < cgnarne> that level of paranoia sounds exhausting
17:41 < fro> also pointless
17:41 < Bradipo> Depends on the situation I imagine.
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17:51 < byteskeptical> cgnarne: no more so than lengths people go to socially to show only certain parts of themselves to others until some threshold is met
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17:53 < Bradipo> smtpd(8) by default uses the hostname as the sender domain...
17:53 < Bradipo> I imagine I can alter smtpd.conf to change that behavior.
17:54 < cgnarne> byteskeptical: sorry, i don't really get what you mean by that
17:54 < Bradipo> Ahh, looks like it might be /etc/mail/mailname ?
17:55 < anthk_> I might post at comp.unix.shell
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18:00 < anthk_> ok, done
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18:01 < anthk_> I tried set +A array $value but that didn't work 
18:01 < anthk_> according to the man page
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18:03 < anthk_> rc from 9front looks saner than bourne shells
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18:51 < ssm_> anthk_: if you're creating an array, use -A not +A
18:51 < ssm_> `set -A a b c; echo ${a[*]}` == a b c
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18:52 < ssm_> s/a b c/a &/
18:53 < lts-> Perfectly clear
18:54 < lts-> Unless you meant to use /g too
18:54 < Bradipo> Shouldn't need /g in this case.
18:55 < Bradipo> Would have been just fine to do: s/a/& &/
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18:56 < ssm_> a lmao :alien:
18:57 < ssm_> `set -A a a b c; echo ${a[*]}` == a b c
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19:05 < anthk_> I want to use an array to store strings with spaces
19:06 < anthk_> and access it iteratively
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19:08 < ssm_> standard shell field seperation still applies to arrays ${x[@]} and ${x[*]} are the same and do default field seperation by IFS which ignores escape whitespace from assignment (IE "a b" "c" expands to "a" "b" "c"). "${x[@]}" is the same but retains escaped whitespace ("a b" "c" is still two fields, "a b" "c"). "${x[*]}" ignores field separation ("a b" "c" is "a b c")
19:09 < ssm_> if you hate that, you can set IFS to an empty string to disable field separation, which is good when combined with the read builtin for a crusty readline
19:12 < thrig> hidden auto-split, crouching glob
19:12 < anthk_> I'm trying with links[$index]=$line
19:12 < anthk_> under a while loop
19:13 < anthk_> $index iterates over the loop, it increases by one
19:13 < ssm_> paste your exact command?
19:13 < thrig> while loops in sh are a good way to have silent data loss, unless you cross all the ts and dot all the is
19:13 < anthk_>  links[$index]="$line"
19:13 < anthk_>     index=$(($index+1))
19:13 < anthk_>     print "$index, ${links[index]}"
19:14 < anthk_> it's just a test
19:14 < anthk_> inb4 "try perl/tcl", I can do it in Perl, but I want to test ksh fist
19:14 < IcePic> I think perl is a nice solution too
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19:17 < vortexx> Bradipo: I've been using split horizon for 25 years
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19:18 < vortexx> getting it working with unbound+nsd was interesting after decades of bind
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19:28 < ssm_> anthk_: something like this? https://howdoesmycode.work/tmp/21429.sh
19:32 < ssm_> `} | while IFS= read line` is the confusing part, if any. it's piping the cat heredoc into the while loop's conditional, with IFS being set to the empty string *only* for the read command's execution. when an env var is passed to a command directly like this, it applies to that command only.
19:33 < ssm_> in english, field splitting is disabled only for the read command, default splitting is used everywhere else in the script
19:35 < anthk_> now it works
19:35 < anthk_> now I have to iterate the array
19:37 < ssm_> ((index++)) or index=$((index+1)) on its own line works, or [index++] in an array indexing also works
19:37 < ssm_> 2nd is the most portable
19:38 < anthk_>  ${#name[@]}
19:38 < anthk_> the iteration already worked, now I have to iterate on the stored array
19:38 < ssm_> that works, though if you were assigning to the array you already have iterator on hand
19:45 < ssm_> typescript https://howdoesmycode.work/tmp/5220.txt
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19:52 < anthk_> uhm, the scope of the index variable in while is not global
19:53 < ssm_> all shell variables are global, with a couple exceptions (function extension)
19:54 < ssm_> scope can be controlled with subshells, I like using (umask 077; some_command) occasionally
19:55 < thrig> global to a process, but a pipe while loop puts the loop code in some process or the other
19:56 < ssm_> you're right
19:56 < anthk_> uhm, it wasn't that; it turns out the IFS variable does odd stuff
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19:57 < thrig> gemini://thrig.me/blog/2025/11/05/where-while.gmi
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19:58 < ssm_> lol keep winning zornshell
19:59 < anthk_> with IFS= I get the right iteration
20:00 < anthk_> but not the link
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20:04 < izder456> i highly suggest the x140e model thinkpads for an ultraportable netbook btw. you might wanna upgrade the wifi to a supported intel chipset well documented online after you update bios though. the default broadcom wifi card really sucks. battery life on my x140e running openbsd last well over 9 hours on STOCK BATTERY! how crazy is that?
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20:05 < izder456> works great with OpenBSD IME
20:06 < izder456> its an APU so power usage is minimal
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20:21 < ssm_> izder456: tired of thinkpads, I moved to framework, now I'm moving to MNT. going to try to 3d print a chassis.
20:22 < ssm_> MNT reform is documented as supported in a subpath of www/plat.html
20:23 < izder456> thats good. i'm curious to see how well it works long-term.
20:23 < anthk_> mm the 'index' variable doesn't work upon different while's
20:23 < ssm_> the entire thing is open hardware, you can grab the CAD files for every component off their git
20:23 < anthk_> I have no typeset -g
20:24 < anthk_> I tried with typeset -x index=0 on top of the file, no luck
20:24 < ssm_> anthk_: provide us your input to what's supposed to go inside $link?
20:27 < ssm_> izder456: I'd love to get to the point I could reprint damaged components (minus display & mainboard) in the single to low double digit price range, and when I need to upgrade I can just edit the cad files a bit to be accustomed to the new board
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21:04 < sonya> any advise for a cheap mouse with good sensor to replace logitech mx-300? thanks.
21:05 < emmanuelux> sonya, mx300? 20 years old mouse, loved it
21:05 < sonya> it died yesterday. i'm in misery ..
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21:16 < eea> oh wow, i recently lost my mx300 too, switched to mx vertical
21:16 < eea> vurry nic3
21:16 < eea> nic3
21:16 < eea> nice
21:16 < eea> lol
21:19 < visl> i use an mx master 3, but i had to find a mac to pair the rfdongle to the mouse using their dumb software
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22:09 < LibreBSD> Well, my laptop and server are both now on 7.8
22:09 < LibreBSD> My first time updating OpenBSD.
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22:27 < tux0r> i hope it worked well for you
22:27 < tux0r> did you sysmerge and syspatch already? :)
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22:40 < puffybuf> LLVM ERROR: out of memory   I have 32 Gb ...
22:42 < puffybuf> also, I can't have a memory filesystem larger than 2Gb ? it gives mount_mfs: mmap: Cannot allocate memory
22:43 < thrig> perhaps there are login.conf limits at play?
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23:23 < rnkn> I have an app running as _bliptown. The app edits and renders flat Markdown files on disk. I also want the logged in system user, e.g. alice, to be able to edit alice's files in /var/www/home/alice but not bob's files in /var/www/home/bob, whereas the app needs to be able to edit all files. Can I do this just by making the directories alice:www 775 with _bliptown in www group?
23:23 < rnkn> Or should I setuid to alice/bob within the app?
23:23 < rnkn> The app is Perl/Mojolicious
23:24 < thrig> setuid would be a bit complicated, but users on the other hand are well known to break file permissions or create malicious symlinks
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23:30 < rnkn> yeah, also alice would need to chown alice:www foo.md and chmod 664 foo.md for it to work...
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23:34 < thrig> multiple "master" sources can be hell to maintain
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23:42 < rnkn> thrig: sorry, what are "master" sources?
23:43 < rnkn> like /var/www/home/alice etc?
23:44 < thrig> OpenBSD does all edits in CVS (and there are git mirrors); multiple master sources would be doing edits on both CVS and git then trying to merge them back together
23:44 < thrig> similar to your "app fiddles with things OR the users instead..."
23:49 < rnkn> aren't they the same master source though? i.e. /var/www/home/alice?
23:49 < rnkn> that path would be owned by alice and /home/alice/public -> /var/www/home/alice
23:49 < thrig> no? user makes file edits, app does something else, user complains, etc
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23:52 < rnkn> the app logged in user should always be the system user though, aren't they both (being the same person) just editing files?
23:53 < dg> if it's owned by :www the user can chown that directory back to one of their groups, feels like it would be better to have it _bliptown:alice then the user is just getting group permissions (which they can't change) not ownership
23:53 < dg> (although then _bliptown might need to be a member of the user's group, if it needs to set those directories up)
23:54 < rnkn> am I stupid in thinking setuid might be the better approach? once the user is logged in it drops privileges and can only do what the user can do?
23:54 < thrig> users forget where they edited what, get confused, you get confused trying to debug the problem. or, you could have only one way to edit the data
23:55 < rnkn> ehhh I'm not so worried about users getting confused in that case. (or maybe I will be at some point in the future)
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23:58 < dg> rnkn: setuid feels overkill for this, if anything a tiny helper that lets the _bliptown user create a user's directory would be the way to do it
23:58 < dg> i.e. all that needs to run as root is "chown :alice .", everything else it can change the permissions of because its the owner of a parent directory
--- Log closed Thu Nov 06 00:00:02 2025