--- Log opened Fri Nov 07 00:00:03 2025
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02:43 < rnkn> if I'm using inetd correctly does it give me webserver hot swapping without downtime?
02:43 < rnkn> I mean, I'm running an rc.d daemon now and it's like two seconds of downtime when restarted, but curious
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02:48 < dg> rnkn: if you use inetd in the wait mode where it passes the listening socket on fd 0 you can do that, although thesedays not all programs support that...
02:49 < dg> (also if you're using httpd it supports HUP, so it's rare to need to restart it...)
02:49 < rnkn> I'm doing nginx reverse proxy to a perl app
02:49 < dg> nginx supports reload via HUP too...
02:50 < dg> probably rc.d reload rather than restart is the answer
02:50 < rnkn> okay, seems like unnecessary complexity
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03:25 < mischief> perl is probably the slowest part of that stack
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03:39 < rnkn> mischief: indeed, I'm rendering markdown with md4c, but I like perl
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04:26 < rnkn> I thought of another approach for my web app that needs to edit markdown files on disk while retaining the individual user's (alice's) ownership. what if I give the web app user the does permission for chown, and for every edit it just chown www:www, saves the edits, then chown alice:alice?
04:27 < rnkn> s/does/doas/
04:28 < dg> you'd have to filter it to particular directories (and flags to stop symlink following) otherwise that's basically giving root access
04:29 < dg> which you can't do with pure doas config, so you'd need a wrapper
04:30 < rnkn> dg: filter it within doas.conf?
04:31 < dg> well doas.conf can only allow or disallow fixed args, so that isn't possible
04:31 < dg> but you could use doas to run a particular script, which would work
04:38 < rnkn> hmm seems messy
04:39 < rnkn> would it be better to start the daemon as root, chroot into /var/www, then either fork as alice to edit the files, or drop privileges to the www user?
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04:40 < rnkn> or I guess always drop privileges, but only maybe fork as alice first if the request is to edit files
04:41 < dg> I still think you could do this with carefully arranged standard unix-style permissions, so everything you're trying to do seems to be adding complexity or fighting unix
04:42 < rnkn> I've been trying to wrap my head around doing it with permissions. it's okay for the directory /var/www/home/alice to be owned by www, but I want all files/dirs within to be alice:alice, regardless of being created by www or alice
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04:44 < rnkn> I like unix and don't want to fight
04:51 < rnkn> so if /var/www/home/alice is 775 www:users and alice is in group users, that solves one problem, but then alice can edit files in /var/www/home/bob, which introduces another
04:52 < ssm_> bob should decrease permissions then
04:53 < ssm_> bob should make the bob dir 750 or 700
04:53 < rnkn> then it's back to the first problem that www can't edit bob's files
04:54 < rnkn> and is /var/www/home/bob is 700 www:users then bob can't create files either
04:55 < rnkn> and also you take the fox over the river...
04:56 < rnkn> currently the web app runs as root in chroot /var/www, so surely running as www with just doas chown capability is better?
04:57 < dg> it seems to be like chroot while running as root (this could maybe be made safer with pledge?) or doas with the ability to chown are both fatally flawed
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04:59 < dg> I didn't say "www:users", I said e.g. "www:alice" before, the standard openbsd setup is a group per user
04:59 < dg> and this then works I think
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05:04 < rnkn> oh sorry
05:04 < rnkn> I see
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05:05 < rnkn> I think the web app will still create files as www:www no?
05:08 < dg> no, group ownership comes from the directory (in linux you have to set something like g+s to get this, but this happens by default in bsds)
05:10 < dg> (the user can chown things they own to another group, but as www owns the parent directory it can always get ownership back, even if it has to rename files/directories out of the way, which is the only annoying bit of this)
05:10 < dg> but while annoying it doesn't need any extra permissions to do so
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05:23 < rnkn> dg: the roadblock I'm getting is that the app, which now drops privileges to _bliptown after start, cannot a file created by alice as 644
05:24 < rnkn> (_bliptown is the actual www user)
05:24 < rnkn> *cannot edit a file
05:26 < rnkn> I think the problem might be I'm essentially trying to give _bliptown both elevated privileges and not elevated privileges
05:26 < sonya> rnkn, .. may be set alice and _bliptown in the same group and adjust alice's umask?
05:27 < sonya> if _blip is also a file creator - adjust umask too
05:27 < sonya> for 664 or whatever
05:30 < rnkn> sonya: like set the umask as a login class?
05:31 < rnkn> it would have to be for every file alice touches, and _bliptown would need to be in every user group
05:31 < sonya> or in ~/.profile
05:31 < rnkn> I'd avoid .profile because I'm sure alice will remove it
05:32 < thrig> usually you end up with a cron job that tries to fix whatever wacky permissions the users have come up with
05:33 < rnkn> if _bliptown creates a file, also 664, can it chown it to alice:alice 664?
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05:33 < rnkn> or is chown always reserved to root?
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05:35 < sonya> chown is reserved for the owher within available permissions (to supplemental groups and so on)
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05:35 < sonya> i.e. owner, if not root, can't chown to root
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05:36 < dg> rnkn: it can't edit a file, but it can rename a file out of the way or rename over it, so the logical way to do it is write a temp file in the same directory, rename into place
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05:37 < sonya> so, alica and _blip should at least be a members of the same group 
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05:49 < Inq> Hello
05:49 < Inq> Question
05:50 < thrig> Statement
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05:50 < Inq> I'm looking to switch from Debian to OpenBSD, is the OpenBSD Handbook good for this or are there better resources available?
05:52 < thrig> the FAQ or base man pages are generally fairly accurate
05:53 < sonya> the only good resource - is offcite, man pages and source code. http://www.openbsd.org/faq/index.html
05:53 < sonya> offsite^
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05:55 < Inq> Thanks, though I doubt I can read the source code, since I have little general OS knowledge
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12:46 < o0x1eef> That kind of attitude makes sure you won't before you ever know if you can.
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13:01 < IcePic> o0x1eef: still, there is a point to it, if all you have is the source and you don't know unix internals, its not going to help you learn that much. Now I think OpenBSD has lots of decent resources for learning, but left only with source I think many would just skip and move on
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13:01 < Minall> Hello OpenBSD Community!. I will be buying a new DAC. Are there any considerations I need to check regarding audio support?, or will it work seamelessly?
13:01 < o0x1eef> That's true, but at the same time, a defeatist attitude won't help.
13:02 < IcePic> just thinking out loud something like "learning to drive by reading a car mechanics guide to petrol engines" might not be the best way. ;)
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13:09 < Minall> As in, I'm trying to understand the correct way of understanding the broader view on seeing if something is supported. For example, for graphics card, I understand that there are man pages for intel, nvidia and so on. But should I apropos by a model? (probably not the same as graphics card), or how can I check correctly the audio man page, and then the device related man page for DACs? <- The correct way of understand my system
13:10 < IcePic> for much hardware, its more about the chipset on the card, than the brand of the card itself, so while some manpages tries to list the brands using it, those lists can never be complete
13:13 < IcePic> dlink used to sell pci ethernet cards, some of them were super crappy and cheap, some used SysKonnect chips and those were awesome when gig networking was new, so you needed to know that it was exactly D-Link DGE-530T that would give you an sk(4) gig card and not a super crappy realtek or other cheap things. Of course in the store, all Dlink eth cards looked the same and only the price would indicate if a 
13:14 < IcePic> 501 or 530 were any different. Also, as time goes on, they sometimes change chips without changing the name/model so they can earn even more money, so for some hw, a guide could say "Foo 2001 is good" and 6 months later they replace it with some chinese knockoff chipset, earn a few bucks before the market notices and starts guiding people off that poor hw
13:14 < IcePic> so a list of "this works, this doesn't" gets outdated and might hurt more when it is wrong than when it is missing
13:19 < Minall> Makes sense. So I according to the chip of my DAC, I can apropos and get a proper manual for it?
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19:21 < StellarOrbit> Hello Everyone. I installed OpenBSD 7.8 on my m1 pro macbook pro. I enabled and started xenodm to get started and I noticed that the GPU acceleration is very sluggish. How do I get it going? Is there a manpage for this I can take a look at?
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19:42 < ssm_> /var/log/Xorg.0.log is a good place to look. also grep dmesg for efifb and vga, if they're configured by the time you hit init(8), your gpu is unsupported.
19:42 < ssm_> s/they're/one or the other are/
19:43 < ssm_> well, supported, but not with drm(4)-based accel
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19:52 < ssm_> here's a Xorg log from an intel iGPU system with working accel using drm(4) and modesetting(4) (intel(4) is deprecated) to compare against your own https://howdoesmycode.work/tmp/19952.log    The /dev/mem and /dev/xf86 warning is normal, you shouldn't need to set the sysctl that's documented unless you use vesa(4).
19:52 < ssm_> typed that out before I realized they dc'd...
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20:39 < ssm_> StellarOrbit: You're back, sending privmsgs. I sent stuff when you were DC'd.
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23:22  * Bradipo wonders how dump obtains 100.86%:
23:22 < Bradipo>   DUMP: 100.86% done, finished in 0:00
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23:29 < o0x1eef> Also fast
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 08 00:00:05 2025