--- Log opened Sun Nov 23 00:00:25 2025
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03:19 < emmanuelux> http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/7.8/ is http and not https ? is it used by fw_update?
03:20 < pardis> fw_update is a shell script, you can just read it
03:21 < pardis> though in this case it's not even necessary since the man page answers your question
03:27  * oldlaptop reflects on the possibility that a DNS request for firmware.openbsd.org, followed by a TLS transfer of suspiciously similar length to firmware-foodevice.tgz, might perhaps not actually be gaining confidentiality by using TLS
03:27 < pardis> but firefox tells me it's not secure!
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03:48 < emmanuelux> the signature is also at http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/7.8/SHA256.sig (no https)
03:52 < oldlaptop> That sure is where you'd expect it to be.
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03:53 < emmanuelux> could be secured elsewhere
03:53 < oldlaptop> "Secured"?
03:55 < oldlaptop> Put plainly: there is no realistic possibility of a download of that file is actually going to be confidential, and integrity/authentication is provided out of band by signify(8).
03:55 < oldlaptop> s/of/that
03:57 < emmanuelux> signify use SHA256 .sig in directory or more ?
03:58 < oldlaptop> SHA256.sig is signed by the appropriate private key, with corresponding public keys shipped as described in that fun manual page.
04:02 < oldlaptop> (I suppose confidentiality is possible in principle, but not without something like tor - or an encrypted proxy, if that gets it past the actor of concern instead of becoming the actor of concern itself. It certainly would not be provided by TLS to the firmware site.)
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07:43 < rkta> Can I somehow see which snapshot I'm running?
07:47 < cgnarne> try the kernel compile time from dmesg
07:52 < rkta> dmesg | grep '^OpenBSD' works, thanks
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08:28 < rkta> Is it just me or is pkg_add -u borekd on -current?
08:31 < cgnarne> wdym?
08:32 < rkta> It's running forever, complaining about python stuff and spitting a lot of 'Detected loop, merging sets ok'.
08:32 < rkta> Lemme post some logs...
08:34 < rkta> It's been like this for some days. I thought may be some temp hiccup.
08:35 < rkta> http://rkta.de/pub/pkg_add.log
08:38 < cgnarne> that looks weird, yes. seems like you have a bunch of .libs and .libs1 packages around
08:38 < cgnarne> i just pkg_delete those when i do updates
08:39 < rkta> What are those .libs packages? Must be something special.
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08:41 < rkta> Deleting .libs-python-3.12.12 will remove a lot of other stuff I don't want to uninstall.
08:42 < cgnarne> i think those are old dependencies. 
08:43 < cgnarne> pkg system keeps them around sometimes so stuff doesn't break
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08:45 < cgnarne> i  also had .libs-python-3.12.12 pkg_delete was no problem
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08:46 < cgnarne> but i don't have many python packages installed so who knows
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08:47 < rkta> It wants to also delete password-store. I don't think pass does even use python, it's a shell script.
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08:50 < rkta> http://rkta.de/pub/pkg_delete-.libs-python-3.12.12
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09:04 < xse> did not know you could specify the .libs thing, i just run 'pkg_delete -ac' from time to time
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09:47 < rkta> ok, running pkg_add -u python-3.12.12 did go through after running for an hour
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10:00 < cgnarne> the Python port got a version bump from 3.12 to 3.13 last week. that may be related to your problem
10:01 < rkta> Works again. First time I had this problem.
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10:03 < cgnarne> probably churn from the version bump
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12:36 < vortexx> rkta: when a version bump for python happens it usually does take a while for pkg_add -u to do it's magic, since usually all dependencies have to upgrade to that version too. Nothing too unusual, and if it fails, pkg_add -uz will fix it
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12:59 < c0co> i am having a bad time getting GPG to work on obsd for some reason. I had it working fine then did a fresh install of 7.8 and now I want to die because of how much frustration GPG is causing
13:00 < c0co> (specifically, using it for ssh auth)
13:00 < c0co> i always have problems with GPG ssh no matter what system I'm on though, not just obsd
13:00 < c0co> it hates me
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13:11 < cgnarne> it's not you, GPG hates everyone 
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13:24 < vortexx> c0co: do you have a professinal requirement to use GPG for ssh? If not, maybe it's time to look for a different way?
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15:29 < rkta> vortexx: I have a cronjob the runs pkg_add -un, I had to cancel it because it put my laptop unto stress for the whole day. That's when I started wondering.
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15:45 < vortexx> rkta: I see
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18:49 < uzuri> hi
18:49 < uzuri> im having a discussion with a friend who claims -current is more secure than -release or -stable
18:50 < uzuri> or generally that the master branch of a project is more secure than the release branch
18:52 < uzuri> they dont belive me when i tell them its not true, maybe some experienced soul can wheigh in on this 
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18:53 < thrig> sounds like a sea of opinions, unless someone has actually collected some data
18:53 < xse> there is an argument for following the latest version of things, i'm fairly sure i read a paper on that topic once like for packages/ports not every issue will be backported. I don't think it really applies to the base system
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18:58 < uzuri> xse: latest version sure, if its a release then of course its favourable to update immediately, but following the actively developed branch of a project can and will introduce more severe bugs than a tested release 
18:59 < phy1729> Current will get new mitigations first,, but I still wouldn't run prod on current.
18:59 < uzuri> i mean thats the whole reason for -current being frozen for a month to test all the code?
18:59 < thrig> or also to build ports
18:59 < xse> somewhat the idea there https://blog.hartwork.org/posts/how-much-security-is-in-long-term-support/
19:01 < uzuri> phy1729: mostly because of bugs and also security concerns, correct?
19:01 < uzuri> and yes current gets it first but erratas are available fairly quickly
19:01 < uzuri> snapshots have to be recompiled aswell
19:03 < uzuri> xse: thats valid
19:04 < uzuri> rhel with their 10yrs of support is really insane
19:04 < uzuri> this is the complete other end of the spectrum though
19:05 < uzuri> i wouldnt feel comfortable running 7.7 let alone 7.6
19:06 < uzuri> but -current is less secure because of less mature code and a missing final cleanup as would happen when its frozen
19:06 < uzuri> or am i wrong
19:08 < xse> indeed, very much depends on what a specific system is doing. i'm fine with -current on my laptop but i want something less likely to break because i did not realize libsomething was updated on a server
19:08 < phy1729> It's less stable and you're expected to help diagnose issues more
19:09 < xse> i'm sure there's lots of old obsd in the wild still
19:10 < xse> meh https://www.shodan.io/search/facet?query=%22OpenBSD%22&facet=os
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19:18 < fro> what a nonsense debate
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20:02 < sibiria> xse: i accidentally had an openbsd installation that was 4 years gone since any updates. this was in the 2000s long before sysupgrade
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20:04 < sibiria> it was a router/internet gateway for three small offices. no services exposed on the public side. no signs of any "pwnage" the day i was asked to replace it
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20:15 < xse> that's how you get huge uptime :p
20:16 < uzuri> sibiria: was it still stable, responsive, etc.?
20:16 < uzuri> curious
20:21 < sibiria> uzuri: yes, chugging along entirely fine
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20:22 < sibiria> replaced only because PSU fan was making a racket
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20:36 < thrig> users sometimes stick pencils into the fan to stop the noise
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21:25 < uzuri> sibiria: i wouldve been suprised to hear anything else haha
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21:59 < vortexx> uzuri: RHEL provide 10 years of support because that's what their customers demand. They're not alone on this and all the did was copy unix vendors at the time they launched RHEL vs regular Redhat
21:59 < vortexx> s/the did/they did
22:00 < vortexx> RHEL came along as the dotcom bubble burst but the linux wave had massive momentum, so off they went. As did SuSE
22:00 < vortexx> and then Ubuntu for debian stuff
22:01 < vortexx> OpenBSD being a research project doesn't care about such timelines, we're lucky enough it's more or less a six month release cycle, it could be completely random
22:01 < vortexx> like debian not releasing a new version for 2 years in the mid 2000s or whenever it was
22:01 < vortexx> and security can be the enemy of stability
22:01 < vortexx> and stability is usually more important
22:02 < vortexx> depends on the threat environment
22:02 < vortexx> 25 years ago security was all about disabling services, but OpenBSD was just "these are audited and work, no need to disable". This was refreshing
22:03 < vortexx> at least for stuff in base
22:04 < puffybuf> I got Debian working on openbsd virtualization, NAT on my laptop and bridge on my server. Now I just need to get remote desktop and docker.
22:05 < puffybuf> yea debian packages are old, I just use unstable...
22:05 < vortexx> well done puffybuf 
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23:59 < l0rd_hex> Hello cyber-friends, besides using nm, is there a way to get a list of all functions in libc? I was thinking of man3 but I know there are extra libraries in there
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 24 00:00:27 2025