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03:31 < dwayneiam> Does OpenBSD have official Mastadon account?
03:31 < ssm_> yes, it is announce@openbsd.org
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03:34 < dwayneiam> ssm_: :) ok
03:35 < dwayneiam> i get it
03:41 < rnkn> lol
03:47 < dwayneiam> rnkn: you laughing with me or at me? jk :)
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03:51 < dwayneiam> I see some opensbd (not official) account with 2k followers? Maybe not bad idea? idk. Another way to reach folks
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05:06 < StellarOrbit> I have a question. I saw an article about KDE dropping the X11 session entirely in 6.8. How will this affect kde on OpenBSD with Wayland still being very experimental?
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06:45 < rnkn> is it advisable to symlink rsync -> openrsync? I want to avoid users having to specify --rsync-path
06:49 < dg> I mean if apple do it...
06:57 < IcePic> StellarOrbit: probably means obsd will stay on last x11-using KDE until wayland gets better supported on obsd
06:57 < IcePic> and same for gnome I assume
06:58 < StellarOrbit> IcePic: makes sense. I am working on learning to program in my spare time, and I really want to give back to OpenBSD, so I might try learning where I can help out in the future. 
07:06 < IcePic> StellarOrbit: One of the things to do could be to run snapshots and latest versions of ports like kde and so on, and become good at making useful bug reports when things change/fail, like "sound stopped working after tuesdays update" or something like that, to catch oddities early instead of everyone upgrading only at release time
07:06 < nanach1> are openbsd devs here?
07:06 < mischief> a handful
07:06 < nanach1> ah i see, i had the impression this was just a fan channel, cool
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07:07 < IcePic> in some sense it is, its not official
07:08 < nanach1> has anyone thought of writing a more modern-ish package manager for openbsd? 
07:08 < nanach1> now, i haven't really configured pkg_add before, so if this is not a thing that even needs to exist don't hesitate to say so
07:09 < nanach1> but it is written in perl 
07:09 < StellarOrbit> I know that void linux's xbps package manager is portable and is BSD v3 licensed, not sure if there is appetite to replace pkg_add though
07:09 < StellarOrbit> IcePic: that's a good idea. I'll play with upgrading to snapshots then. Thanks for that
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07:10 < IcePic> please read through the whole FAQ, not to learn every single thing, but just to have a back-of-the-mind feeling of what is in there
07:11 < IcePic> StellarOrbit: replacing pkg_add is not on the maps. Whatever replaces it needs to address ALL of its current abilities, and all the 12-13k ports Makefiles are of course adapted to how the pkg tools work, so changing this tool also comes with change/adapt/fix 13k ports Makefiles
07:11 < StellarOrbit> wait, actually, a fork from the original creator relicensed it to v3, but I think the one void maintains is still v2
07:12 < StellarOrbit> IcePic: yep that would be a massive undertaking
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07:12 < IcePic> whatever perceived gains from changing must be worth lots more than the work to just migrate
07:12 < StellarOrbit> I don't have that big of a problem with pkg_* personally since it seems pretty robust. Just don't like that there is no confirmation of command execution
07:12 < IcePic> same goes for changing from cvs to git or whatever else.
07:14 < nanach1> hm. yeah i suppose that replacing the package manager doesn't really make sense
07:14 < StellarOrbit> I'm not too familiar with cvs, but it seems nice
07:14 < nanach1> what OS/linux distro are you coming from
07:14 < IcePic> cvs is crap in todays standards, but it works, and it will continue to work for a long time to come I guess
07:15 < StellarOrbit> I use Artix Linux on my laptop as well as OpenBSD, but on my desktop I run Fedora since where I work we use RHEL, but I like to tinker so I have been playing with OpenBSD for about a few weeks
07:16 < IcePic> Welcome to our little corner of the world then, hope OpenBSD suits you
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07:17 < StellarOrbit> IcePic: thanks. It is really nice since it feels like old school Linux in the best ways
07:18 < nanach1> i was flip flopping between slackware/artix/alpine/void then i started to gain interest in openbsd since it had all the design qualities i liked, i switched full time a few months ago on both my laptop and PC and i couldn't be happier   
07:18 < StellarOrbit> Xenocara/Xenodm feels nice as well. I like how hardened it is. That and I like the layout of the filesystem in terms of how each important directory is "isolated" with different permission levels. Only papercut I encounter is if my laptop shuts down unexpectidely, I have to fsck the filesystem in single user mode
07:19 < StellarOrbit> nanach1: I have been thinking of switching away from Fedora, but I am not 100% sure my network cards are supported
07:19 < nanach1> yeah, openbsd doesnt support any journaling FS, not sure why
07:20 < StellarOrbit> I heard that there might be some work to port hammerfs from dragonflybsd to openbsd, but I don't know if there is actually any steam behind that
07:20 < nanach1> dragonflybsd is cool also but they are a bit less keen on security which i value 
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07:21 < nanach1> freebsd too. i was using freebsd right up until my switch
07:21 < StellarOrbit> nanach1: I don't have much exposure to it. It was the first *BSD I heard of, by accident, back in 2017, but I never installed it. Once I learned about OpenBSD, I knew the security focus was very important to me
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07:23 < StellarOrbit> maybe I should try dragonflybsd sometime. 
07:23 < nanach1> it's the fastest BSD afaik
07:23 < nanach1> (for desktop use)
07:24 < StellarOrbit> is it not good on laptops?
07:24 < nanach1> i don't know 
07:24 < StellarOrbit> I do like that OpenBSD has better drivers than FreeBSD which is nice
07:24 < StellarOrbit> nanach1: that's fair
07:24 < rnkn> nanach1: what's wrong with being written in Perl?
07:24 < nanach1> speed, overhead
07:25 < nanach1> although it is splitting hairs a bit
07:25 < nanach1> also, idk if perl supports threading
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07:25 < nanach1> but feel free to prove me wrong 
07:25 < rnkn> StellarOrbit: pkg_add needs to be run as root, so aren't you getting a password confirmation prompt?
07:25 < IcePic> perl supports forking 
07:26 < IcePic> at the very least
07:26 < StellarOrbit> rnkn: I mean, if I run pkg_add foobar, it doesn't ask Y/n, it just installs
07:26 < rnkn> Perl is the scripting language in OpenBSD's base system
07:26 < IcePic> ^^^ 
07:26 < rnkn> StellarOrbit: something about OpenBSD is that it assumes you know what you're doing
07:27 < rnkn> well, actually that's not true, because it has extensive man pages for those who don't
07:27 < StellarOrbit> rnkn: that's fair. I typically watch what I type, but it feels nice knowing I can decline the transaction if there is a lot of deps I don't like for whatever reason 
07:27 < rnkn> ^C works there
07:28 < StellarOrbit> doesn't that run the risk of corrupting the package database? I know other package managers don't like ^C
07:28 < rnkn> you can also do pkg_add -n
07:28 < StellarOrbit> rnkn: ooooh that's nice
07:28 < rnkn> IcePic: do you know if ^C may corrupt the pkg db?
07:29 < rnkn> I was under the impression it was all atomic
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07:38 < oldlaptop> It's never bitten me.
07:38 < oldlaptop> (which of course doesn't necessarily mean anything at all)
07:39 < StellarOrbit> oldlaptop: it's good to know though that it never bit you. ^^
07:40 < oldlaptop> <IcePic> StellarOrbit: probably means obsd will stay on last x11-using KDE until wayland gets better supported on obsd
07:40 < oldlaptop> there was also the stretch there (when the first hard dependencies on wayland-related libraries went in, as it happens...) where plasma just wasn't packaged
07:46 < StellarOrbit> oldlaptop: that makes sense. Wayland I imagine is a huge uplift for an operating system where it's not even the 2nd class citizen. Hats off to the OpenBSD devs for working with FreeDesktop to get it supported to begin with
07:46 < StellarOrbit> Lots of Linuxisms I am sure
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09:52 < sibiria> nanach1: you can thread with perl. also, it has good executional performance
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09:56 < sibiria> by far in most cases, it "outruns" python with ease
09:56 < rnkn> python isn’t even a fair comparison because it’s so slow
09:57 < rnkn> what about lua?
09:58 < sibiria> lua has great executional performance. lua-jit in particular is blazing. but lua is in a slightly inequal category
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09:59 < nanach1> sibiria: is there a way to do concurrent package downloads on pkg_add? or does that not fit into the existing model
09:59 < sibiria> nanach1: there is no way to do it as the software stands today
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10:00 < nanach1> i see. sometimes when i'm on a low bandwidth connection it can be annoying to have to wait for a bunch of dependancies to download in sequence. although, i suppose there's nothing stopping me from using wget or similar to download them first and then installing them manually
10:01 < sibiria> if you're low on bandwidth it's still not faster to download the dependencies in parallel. but i agree that concurrent downloads would on the whole speed package updates up
10:04 < sibiria> i think the pkg tools have served openbsd pretty well. but i also feel that there are a couple of more modern yet equally slim solutions that would be better
10:04 < sibiria> xbps comes to mind
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10:05 < nanach1> yeah... like what was mentioned earlier, the replacement would have to be functionally identical since a lot of ports rely on it 
10:07 < nanach1> what does this channel think of hyperbolaBSD?
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10:53 < Guestmodinfo> Hi i have installed OpenBSD on my laptop again after 2 years. Last time i had ethernet so installation was smooth. Now i have copied firmware for iwm in my home directory. How to install that firm ware. I have gone to the man page and typed fw_update -p /home/myname 'name of the firmware.tgz'
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10:58 < zelest> And that fails?
10:58 < Guestmodinfo> the output says fw_update : add iwm; update none; keep iwm
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10:58 < Guestmodinfo> i mean does it means that now iwm driver has been installed?
10:59 < Guestmodinfo> let me check
10:59 < zelest> ifconfig iwm0 up :)
10:59 < Guestmodinfo> oh thanx so much
10:59 < zelest> ifconfig iwm0 nwid MyNetwork wpakey S3cr3tPa55w0rd
11:00 < Guestmodinfo> ohh thanx i will try this
11:00 < zelest> then dhcpleasectl iwm0 to get a lease
11:00 < zelest> (assuming you have a DHCP running on your network)
11:03 < Guestmodinfo> yes thank you so much. It works now. OpenBSD is the best community
11:05 < zelest> \o/
11:05 < zelest> Now, look up 'man hostname.if' to see how to automate this :)
11:05 < Guestmodinfo> thank you so much
11:06 < Guestmodinfo> can you point me to some more such things
11:07 < vortexx> sh /etc/netstart iwm0 will help you get going too when you're busy configuring interfaces
11:07 < bigato> take a look at the openbsd faq: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/index.html
11:07 < bigato> you will find some interesting things there
11:08 < Guestmodinfo> yes ok
11:08 < vortexx> you can do pkg_info iwm-firmware should show it as being installed or not
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11:54 < kaotica> trying again
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12:07 < kaotica> sudo apt install qemu-system-arm qemu-efi-aarch64
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12:29 < kaotica> this qemu instal is not detecting the sdhc 
12:32 < kaotica> why must this be so complicated
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12:35 < kaotica> Available disks are: none.
12:35 < kaotica> this is a problem
12:35 < sibiria> it certainly is. are you trying to make an arm64 installation of openbsd elsewhere?
12:35 < sibiria> i.e. a pre-installed disk image you can move to some other machine
12:35 < kaotica> onto a raspi 2w zero
12:36 < kaotica> but no disks are being detected
12:36 < sibiria> ah. can't help with that. only done arm64 installs on server platforms
12:40 < mischief> whats openbsd, qemu and rpi zero 2w all got todo with each other
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12:40 < kaotica> miseryu
12:40 < kaotica> it's not working as expected
12:41 < kaotica> What timezone are you in? ('?' for list) [Europe/Stockholm] 
12:41 < kaotica> Available disks are: none.
12:41 < kaotica> Which disk is the root disk? ('?' for details) 
12:41 < kaotica> as far as i get
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12:41 < kaotica> https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/17uc6z6/booting_openbsd_on_rpi_zero_2w/
12:41 < kaotica> someone elese who struggled with this :)
12:42 < ecbrown> kaotica: i don't know if this will help you but i just installed on apple silicon arm64.  i had to use an ssd card, like for a camera
12:43 < ecbrown> once openbsd is up i was able to use usb's
12:45 < ecbrown> the reason i bring it up in your case, is that i was desperately reading for how to boot my system, and i saw this mentioned in raspberyy pi type gear.  i don't know if its relevant
12:49 < kaotica> reason i am interested in having openbsd on the pi is added security
12:49 < kaotica> and somethign that does not use openssl for openssl
12:49 < kaotica> openssh*
12:49 < ecbrown> well openbsd is home turf for openssh ;-)
12:50 < ecbrown> oix
12:50 < ecbrown> oic nvm
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12:54 < kaotica> lets see if this works!
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12:59 < kaotica> not showing up on the netowkr
12:59 < kaotica> i dont have any screens i can connect it to to make a proper instal
12:59 < kaotica> or seria cables
12:59 < kaotica> wonder if this is even possible
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13:00 < c0co> i guess you could memorize the install sequence and use a keyboard purely blind
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13:00 < nanach1> are you trying to install openbsd headless kaotica 
13:00 < kaotica> nanach1: yep
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13:01 < kaotica> on a raspi 2w zero
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13:01 < kaotica> onto an sdhc card
13:01 < nanach1> i think i did that once for an old pc with no networking or disc drive, i think i just installed in a vm and then dd'd to a physical disk
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13:02 < nanach1> oh damn
13:02 < c0co> the thing is
13:02 < c0co> you're not even going to know if it's even reading from the card
13:03 < nanach1> maybe you can use the usb as serial
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13:12 < uzuri> sibiria: did you catch my responses?
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13:15 < mischief> usb serial adapters are <$5
13:15 < mischief> save yourself and us some trouble
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13:20 < c0co> no, thrive in the trouble, don't give up on your plan to do a headless install of obsd onto a pi full rawdog
13:21 < mischief> on the off chance you have another microcontroller you can always use that as a 'serial adapter'
13:21  * mischief pets his pile of microcontrollers and serial adapters
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13:29 < c0co> it's good to have up to 2 of any imaginable cable you can think of
13:29 < c0co> more than 2 and you're just a hoarder unless you have a very specific and real usecase
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13:41 < sibiria> uzuri: i did, but i'm out of ideas as to what's causing the congestion to build up. at this point i'd try the most default permissive PF ruleset possible, to see if that's where the issue is
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13:50 < zbcm> I love pf. Thanks
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16:59 < luckied> hey all, can anyone explain why install78.iso has 2 SHA256 sums in the file on the cdn?
16:59 < lts-> luckied: show us?
17:00 < luckied> https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.8/amd64/SHA256
17:00 < luckied> it shows the same hash twice
17:00 < lts-> Interesting fortunately the same hashes :-) 
17:00 < lts-> *but
17:00 < luckied> SHA256 (install78.iso) = a228d0a1ef558b4d9ec84c698f0d3ffd13cd38c64149487cba0f1ad873be07b2
17:00 < luckied> weird
17:00 < luckied> thought i was seeing shit lol
17:02 < luckied> https://ibb.co/45BqXCP
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17:08 < uzuri> luckied: i think theo once mentioned something regarding that in the mailing list and saying it would be too much of an effort to fix that 
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17:14 < nologin> uzuri, how's your ping ?
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17:30 < uzuri> sonya: still the same <_>
17:30 < uzuri> turned off my modem before leaving the house, lets see if something changes
17:31 < sonya> uzuri, and it's only for clients? router itself is ok, isn't it?
17:31 < uzuri> yup
17:31 < sonya> did you try to disable pf?
17:32 < sonya> on router i mean
17:32 < uzuri> not yet, but thats what im gonna do next as sibiria mentioned
17:32 < uzuri> i mean what else could it be
17:32 < sonya> at least it's worth to nail the exact reason
17:33 < sonya> hardware, as an option
17:34 < uzuri> i have plenty of different laptops sitting around, gonna try them + other OS's
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17:35 < sonya> ok. if i'll be around - ping me up when/if solution came up. it's interesting. thanks
17:36 < uzuri> the router is one of those compact firewall-computers from amazon with an old intel N3700 and DDR3 ram, does opensbd 'like' DDR3?
17:36 < uzuri> sonya: thanks i'll let you know
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18:07 < armin> Can I simply extract the firmware.tgz onto an install.iso USB pen drive?
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18:48 < uzuri> armin: yes that should work
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19:10 < Guestmodinfo> Hi, after my new install of OpenBSD i did not shutdown the machine but just closed the lid. When i opened the lid then nothing came up so i long pressed the power button to shut it off. And now it is stuck at boot. The prompt is ddb but booting is proceeding. i cannot type fsck
19:10 < Guestmodinfo> i mean i type fsck  but it says no such command
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19:15 < ecbrown> Guestmodinfo: sounds like a botched install.  since it takes two minutes i'd do it again
19:16 < armin> uzuri: ty!
19:16 < Guestmodinfo> i think i will have to do it
19:18 < Guestmodinfo> is there any way to come out of kernel panic. It said / not properly unmounted
19:18 < morte> Hello everyone, I have a macbook air A1466 from 2014 I think, and it's not booting openbsd. The only thing I can notice is that after it starts the boot process it detects the apple ssd and it freezes 
19:18 < morte> any ideas how can I troubleshoot that problem? 
19:20 < brynet> morte: fixed in -current, try a snapshot: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=176392704131658&w=2
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19:21 < brynet> it's not actually frozen, just slow to make progress (will sit for hours).
19:21 < morte> oh
19:21 < morte> I will try it
19:21 < morte> I did tried with a current version, but it was a couple of weeks ago
19:21 < morte> I'll give it another try
19:22 < brynet> yeah, this went in on the 23rd, so you probably just missed it
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19:51 < armin> :)
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20:08 < vortexx> morte: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/dmesgd?do=view&id=3345 6.1 certainly booted
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20:51 < vortexx> zelest: did you ever move on to a new platform from the APU2 series?
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21:04 < kaotica> know of any guides for gettign headless pi 2w zero setup with openbsd?
21:04 < kaotica> this can't be too common. i've searched myself. 
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21:05 < saeedm> dd the arm64 (miniroot) to a sdcard, plug the uart, should work.
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21:10 < vortexx> kaotica: as we explained to you last weekend, https://www.tumfatig.net/2023/running-openbsd-on-raspberry-pi-zero-2-w/ but use the autoinstall method (which means you need to be able to mount the install image) https://man.openbsd.org/autoinstall
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21:11 < kaotica> Thanks to the HDMI monitor and USB keyboard, you can proceed to the OpenBSD installation as usual.
21:12 < kaotica> i am doing this entirely headless
21:12 < vortexx> which you don't have
21:12 < vortexx> thus my autoinstall instructions
21:12 < kaotica> ill look into autoinstall.. thanks
21:13 < rtj> shit, ive try before and failed. ty for tip vortexx !;!
21:13 < rtj> i used seriel for bbone black
21:14 < vortexx> yw rtj 
21:16 < vortexx> If either /auto_install.conf or /auto_upgrade.conf is found on bsd.rd's built-in RAM disk, autoinstall behaves as if the machine is netbooted, but uses the local response file. In case both files exist, /auto_install.conf takes precedence.
21:16 < vortexx> this is VERY important
21:16 < vortexx> also don't set the the location of sets to http if using an install image, use disk
21:17 < vortexx> which means specifying the disk partition and directory the sets are in (which will be the path on the install img)
21:20 < rtj> qsl
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21:21 < vortexx> partition will always be "a" and the directory will be 7.8/arm64 
21:21 < vortexx> you also have to answer that the partition isn't mounted
21:23 < izder456> https://cryogenix.org/library/operating-systems/is-openbsd-really-capable-at-gaming wrote a fun little article
21:26 < vortexx> there was or maybe still some streamer on twitch who only uses OpenBSD
21:30 < izder456> there is yes
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21:30 < vortexx> so to be explicit:
21:30 < vortexx> Location of sets? disk
21:31 < vortexx> Is the disk partition already mounted? no
21:31 < vortexx> Which disk contains the upgrade media? sd1
21:31 < vortexx> Which sd1 partition has the upgrade sets? a
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21:32 < vortexx> Pathname to the sets? 7.8/arm64
21:32 < vortexx> stick all that in your install.conf and you should be ok
21:33 < vortexx> I presume install.conf autoformats and sets up the local drive with the OpenBSD defaults
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22:06 < zelest> vortexx, nah, my APU2 still works just fine :D
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22:13 < vortexx> zelest: same here, my APU6 does but I do need to upgrade to an Odroid soonish, my connection is so much faster than what the APU can do
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22:22 < zelest> My ISP offer me 500Mbit.. ran speedtest now: Upload: 526.75 Mbit/s
22:22 < zelest> Download seems capped at around 350 though
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22:25 < kaotica> this is not the system for the layman
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22:25 < kaotica> i just boottedint in qemu and it does not work intuitively at all
22:26 < kaotica> its like something ancient but secure 
22:28 < humm> show me an “intuitive system”
22:29 < kaotica> ubuntu
22:29 < tvtoon> Plan9, pure intuition!
22:29 < humm> kaotica, lol, lmao
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22:31 < humm> it truly is a matter of knowing the system, both for OpenBSD and for Ubuntu
22:31 < humm> I have trouble finding my way around a Ubuntu system whenever I need to use one
22:37 < vortexx> kaotica: you're jumpimg in at the deep end just by using arm64, and then on a non-officially supported system... expect to have to struggle. But it teaches you all kinds of aspects of OpenBSD installation that you wouldn't had you opted for a plain jane x86-64 system
22:37 < kaotica> i wated something that did not use openssl
22:38 < kaotica> which i do not trust since the guy who brokee openssl on debian in 2006 i now in lead of the openssl foundation
22:38 < kaotica> vortexx: you're right
22:38 < kaotica> if i had more time
22:38 < kaotica> i would tinker :)
22:38 < vortexx> time is always the issue
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22:39 < vortexx> it helps if you have control of your lan so you can do netboot stuff
22:39 < vortexx> most people don't have this
22:39 < vortexx> (or you run a side net for home lab purposes)
22:40 < humm> kaotica: computing society spent so much on training that person and now you want to not use them?
22:41 < vortexx> kaotica: if you're that desperate for libressl, why not run an OpenBSD VM on your computer?
22:41 < humm> (besides, you can not use OpenSSL on other systems as well)
22:41 < kaotica> i can use libressl with openssh but i must compile it myself
22:41 < kaotica> there should be ready-made packages for this
22:41 < kaotica> maybe i make one some day
22:42 < vortexx> man release, that'll build libressl and the rest of the system for you
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22:45 < kaotica> i need something on an internetfacing servr
22:45 < kaotica> that is why i dont run it on my aptop
22:45 < kaotica> i run it on a pi instead
22:45 < kaotica> cheap little device
22:45 < kaotica> cute too
22:45 < vortexx> I think you need to learn a bit more about networking
22:46 < vortexx> if your laptop is plugged in via ethernet you can run OpenBSD in a VM and bridge it's network interface to the laptop's
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22:47 < vortexx> if using wifi this is a bit harder, you need to run a vpn from the VM to some other machine with internet exposure and use port forwarding
22:47 < vortexx> (on the same lan)
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22:47 < vortexx> this can be the hypervisor itself
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22:49 < vortexx> one way or the other, sounds like you have quite a bit of reading and testing to do. Lack of cables doesn't help
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 29 00:00:34 2025