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00:12 < ssm_> why does ~/.kshrc not get sourced on su -l?
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00:15 < ssm_> *doc reads* oh root lacks ENV is why 
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00:18 < Bradipo> Must have ENV in ~/.profile
00:19 < ssm_> yup, that was it
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03:49 < ecbrown> i'm trying to use qt-creator, and it works when i invoke `env LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib/qtcreator qtcreator'     i seem to recall in gnu/linux that there is an /etc/ld.... where one can add dynamic library locations.   is there such a feature in OpenBSD?
03:50 < ecbrown> (i think its /etc/ld.conf)
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03:54 < ecbrown> man ld.so indicates shlib_dirs in /etc/rc.conf.local.....  i'll try that
03:56 < ecbrown> (man ldconfig)
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04:02 < rnkn> after applying today's errata patches the checksum of /usr/sbin/sshd changed. this wasn't mentioned in the notes; is it expected? how should I know in the future?
04:04 < dg> sshd is relinked on boot, probably want to check /usr/share/relink/usr/sbin/sshd/sshd.tar instead
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05:07 < MelMalik> why?
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08:28 < oldlaptop> MelMalik: Some important binaries, like the C library, sshd, and the kernel, get relinked in a random order on every reboot as an exploit mitigation. If one of them happened to have a serious bug, it would be harder to write a reliable exploit (since they'll be different on each OpenBSD system).
08:31 < oldlaptop> (think of it like... randomly reordering the works in a poetry anthology or something. All the same material is there, but the page numbers are all different.)
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08:46 < rnkn> ah okay so my checksum of sshd is kinda pointless?
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08:48 < IcePic> yes
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09:17 < haddock> ls -la
09:18 < haddock> ops
09:19 < quinq> .
09:19 < quinq> ..
09:20 < quinq> upgrade-to-78.txt
09:20 < zelest> rm upgrade-to-78.txt
09:20 < zelest> muahaha!
09:21 < haddock> hehe
09:21 < quinq> gg :)
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09:21 < zelest> also, I think your -l is broken on ls :P
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09:24 < quinq> Yeah, it's aliased to | awk '{ print $NF }' for getting rid of this kind of smart comment
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09:25 < zelest> :P
09:25 < quinq> ;)
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12:24 < anthk_> awk need something like getchar();
12:25 < anthk_> inb4 od/read, some read and od options are not busybox/POSIX compatible
12:26 < sibiria> ok but on the last day, god created perl. and he saw that man enjoyed it, and that man could make great use of it, and he saw that perl was good, and man saw that perl was good, and since then it's a valid and very capable option
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12:29 < anthk_> the reason is git://git.luxferre.top/awk-gold-collection.git
12:29 < anthk_> git clone --recursive it, have a look at tgl.awk, it tries to extend the language
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12:30 < anthk_> some fuctions are ok, but getchar with either od(1) or dd(1) -GNU od actually- it's non-portable
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12:30 < anthk_> sibiria: on Perl, on performance, mawk can be much faster
12:30 < anthk_> I tried a subleq interpreter in Perl and it was atrociously slow compared to the awk/mawk one
12:31 < anthk_> from that repo, you have a subleq interpreter too
12:31 < anthk_> with the AWK one the implementation allowed me to run some Forth interpreter under it under an underpoweered ATOM netbook at almost realtime speeds
12:31 < sibiria> i feel like an oisc is probably better done in something else entirely
12:31 < anthk_> yep, in C; but it was for fun
12:31 < sibiria> does sound fun, yeah
12:32 < anthk_> in C with -O3 -march=atom -ffast-math (because it's just integers) it was damn fas
12:32 < anthk_> fast
12:32 < anthk_> and with muxleq, even more
12:32 < anthk_> (multiplexed subleq, keep multiplexing instructions until a jump it's found)
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12:40 < armin> so this "obsdfreqd" tool by solene is actually fantastic.
12:40 < anthk_> indeed
12:40 < armin> it works like *so* well..
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12:41 < armin> <3 obsdfreqd
12:42  * zelest is pleased with apmd on -H :P
12:44 < armin> zelest: I'm still unsure if I should try to use apmd in parallel to obsdfreqd actually - the man-page at least mentions that...
12:45 < armin> zelest: but I don't know if it would give me benefits or if there are side-effects that make me not understand what is really going on
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13:00 < zbcm> My cpu goes unused most of the time so apm -A is fine. I need to find something and put it to work
13:00 < sibiria> armin: you should not run them in parallel for the sake of controlling CPU frequency
13:00 < zelest> My office is cold this time of year :P
13:00 < sibiria> use obsdfreqd for that. use apmd just to control hibernation/wakeup and similar
13:01 < zelest> sibiria, any development on the re(4) and obsdfreqd btw?
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13:02 < sibiria> zelest: i haven't been able to reproduce it in 7.8
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13:02 < sibiria> and to be specific, the problem is hw.setperf
13:02 < zelest> yeah
13:02 < sibiria> whatever mechanism reacts to it changing
13:03 < sibiria> but seems to be alright finally
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13:33 < armin> sibiria: there is also hw.perfpolicy and hw.setperf, and it looks like you could just use these, alternatively to obsdfreqd, but I don't know if I should even try that path, either...
13:36 < sibiria> armin: you can always manually control the CPU frequency if you for some reason want to. the internal mechanism for gauging load and scaling frequency is poor compared to obsdfreqd
13:37 < sibiria> the internal one being "perfpolicy=auto"
13:39 < sibiria> obsdfreqd solves an actual shortcoming and improves the behavior and result
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13:52 < ssm_> obsdfreakd
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16:13 < armin> sibiria: ah, thank you!
16:13 < armin> ssm_: :D
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16:47 < c0co> ok so, with a USB mouse, in systat I get interrupts for both ietp0 (touchpad) and xhci0 (usb mouse). in a TTY, I see a crude cursor move when I use the USB mouse, but not the touchpad. In xenodm+i3, the mouse cursor does not move for either
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17:04 < SiFuh> Since Yubikey has had certain functionality removed from the OpenBSD kernel, what is a recommened replacement FIDO/2 U2F device? 
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17:33 < brynet> h
17:33 < uwharrie> I thought only the OTP HID stuff was removed
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17:41 < Bradipo> Yeah, which is a joke.  That's the most useful function of the Yubikey.
17:41 < Bradipo> 'Tis a pity some people don't know how to use them without spamming characters where they don't want.
17:41 < Bradipo> Such a puerile reason to disable the functionality, honestly.
17:42 < Bradipo> Put it behind a sysctl if that's a concern, but to rip it out entirely, petulant.
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18:11 < SiFuh> Bradipo: I agree. I had it set up to launch on plug in a password manager. Since it pops up in the foreground, it doesn't spam the characters anywhere else. When I unplugged it the password program would close. 
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18:14 < Bradipo> Nice, I only ever used the tap functionality.
18:14 < Bradipo> e.g. browser wants Yubikey token, so I plug in and tap.
18:16 < SiFuh> Cool, since 7.6 was released, my laptop crashes if I use xenocara. But on 7.5 I had it so the hold down for Yubikey was for mounting the encrypted disk. Tap function was for log in to the users account.
18:18 < Bradipo> I thought the yubikey hate didn't start until 7.8?
18:20 < SiFuh> Yeah, I think August. But now I can't access any of my passwords. :-) So I was looking at the revised patch someone made yubico_sucks.diff 
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18:22 < c0co> I use yubikey for pgp and fido auth 
18:22 < c0co> but not OTP 
18:22 < Bradipo> My only use of Yubikey is OTP.
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18:25 < SiFuh> Well, I didn't mind the idea of having a sysctl option for it. But calling it yubico_sucks is a bit childish. 
18:25 < c0co> lol
18:26 < Bradipo> Yep.
18:26 < SiFuh> Bradipo: Did you run the patch?
18:26 < c0co> my general conclusion about my mouse issues is it has something to do with the relationship between the TTY and i3, since I also had an issue with yubikey / pgp pinentry - it works if i use tmux in xterm, but pinentry can't find i3 at all. I think the touchpad/mouse instructions from wmoused are also not finding their way to X / i3
18:27 < c0co> and the mouse also works in tty in a way
18:27 < c0co> (the cursor renders as a 1 char white block)
18:27 < c0co> but i have literally no idea how to solve this
18:29 < Bradipo> I'm still on 7.7.
18:29 < Bradipo> Haven't patched because I'm not in a position to waste time.
18:29 < o0x1eef> I upgraded one laptop to 7.8 yesterday, it probably took an hour fwiw
18:30 < SiFuh> Okay, I kind of wished I stayed on 7.7. No openscad in 7.8 
18:31 < SiFuh> As for the laptop, probably set it up with 7.5 since that was the last working version of OpenBSD. "ATI Cezanne" has issues from 7.6 onwards. 
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18:32 < o0x1eef> That's EOL. Your mileage may vary.
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18:33 < c0co> update: disabling wsmoused actually makes the mouse work in i3! but still no touchpad unfortunately
18:33 < SiFuh> o0x1eef: Understood, but the laptop is not used for much. Just doing paperwork and spreadsheets
18:33 < o0x1eef> I'm not even sure if pkg_add would be in a working state
18:35 < c0co> so it seems like ietp devices require wsmoused, but wsmoused does not cooperate with i3
18:35 < SiFuh> o0x1eef: We'll see. Anyway the TV box is on 7.6, NAS is on 7.7. And I don't plan on updating them anytime soon.
18:36 < o0x1eef> IIRC the last two major releases are supported, so you should be okay for another 6 months or so
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18:44 < cgnarne> c0co: i don't think you're supposed to run wsmoused and X?
18:47 < c0co> Yeah I discovered that this eve cgarne :) now if only I could figure out how to get my ietp touchpad working with X / i3. 
18:48 < c0co> cgnarne*
18:48 < cgnarne> does it work with other wms, like dwm?
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18:52 < c0co> no, xinput isn't receiving anything from it. I see the interrupts registering in systat, though
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21:15 < SiFuh> Bradipo: I gave up on that patch. Instead just downloaded the kernel source. Edited sys/dev/usb/ukbd.c and commented out line 204 and 205. if (uha->uaa->vendor == USB_VENDOR_YUBICO)   return (UMATCH_NONE); Then recompiled the kernel. So the Yubikey is working like it use to now. 
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21:50 < armin> huh? My laptop suspends just fine when I close it, even though I do definitely not have apmd running. So obviously I do *NOT* need apmd to use suspend?
21:51 < armin> for some reason, after reading solene's page, and after following the discussions around apmd/obsdfreq we had the last 2 days, I thought I would need apmd for suspend.
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21:55 < uwharrie> my understanding is that apm(4) in the kernel is what actually handles things, and apmd is there to run pre/post actions and allow control from userland
21:56 < uwharrie> see also machdep.lidaction https://man.openbsd.org/acpibtn.4
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22:45 < pardis> armin: apmd is never necessary for any reason other than running hooks on suspend/resume/shutdown
22:45 < pardis> or suspending automatically on low battery
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22:46 < pardis> it doesn't implement suspend and it doesn't do any CPU frequency scaling
22:46 < pardis> the CPU frequency scaling options to apmd just pass your request along to the kernel
22:46 < armin> pardis: ah! thank you!
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22:47 < armin> uwharrie: also, thanks!
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22:52 < dg> apmd by default also makes it easier to suspend via zzz, the socket is usable by wheel but /dev/apm{,ctl} aren't writable by wheel
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22:53 < dg> although you could adjust those permissions
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22:55 < Bradipo> SiFuh: Yeah, I figured one would have to maintain a custom kernel for this.
22:58 < armin> dg: merci!
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23:07 < Bradipo> Heck, I would be satisfied with an option that can go in /etc/bsd.re-config
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23:25 < ssm_> is polling my touchpad supposed to eat up 60%/400% cpu
23:27 < trench> no..
23:27 < trench> fw_update
23:30 < Bradipo> I just disable touchpads, lol.
23:32 < ssm_> trench: I've had this laptop for years (framework 13 inch) and it's alway been a problem
23:32 < armin> Bradipo: tell me you're a thinkpad user without telling me you use a thinkpad
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23:33 < ssm_> no clit here. touchpad is better anyways ;););)
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23:34 < armin> I also learned 2 days ago that in order to disable the touchpad via xinput, you need to know that disabling/detaching in xinput world is called "float": xinput --float 7
23:34 < rtj> bury me with my clit keyboard
23:35 < rtj> mount it to the casket
23:36 < rtj> I have tons of issues with my hands so anything that saves movments helps me operate longer
23:36 < rtj> vim, tiling wm etc
23:36 < trench> ssm_: they fix thing rather fast if you report stuff to the mailinglists is my experience and framwork is kind of a big thing and it should be supported if i'm not mistaken..
23:36 < armin> <- DWM/vim/tmux/mutt/zsh
23:37 < rtj> the lettece armin 
23:37 < ssm_> <- cwm/vi/xterm/mail/ksh
23:37 < rtj> I keep ksh on this machine though.
23:38 < trench> https://jcs.org/2021/08/06/framework'
23:38 < armin> ssm_: :)
23:38 < trench> https://jcs.org/2021/08/06/framework
23:38 < Bradipo> armin: I disable it in boot_config.
23:38 < ssm_> I read that before I even had this laptop lol
23:38 < trench> Touchpad Yes Pixart I2C, supported by imt.
23:38 < rtj> I'd like to get a clit mout tattoo near my belly button.
23:38 < rtj> mouse
23:39 < trench> https://jcs.org/openbsd-laptops
23:39 < rtj> Put a little shadow on it.
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23:39 < armin> Bradipo: sure I mean whatever floats your boat, the BIOS of this thing here also has an option to disable it. I wanted the way that will (if I ever will ned it, hint, I won't, lol) let me still enable/disable it at use-time.
23:39 < trench> he is the one who wrote the driver..
23:39 < armin> Bradipo: of course I will NEVER EVER make use of that nevertheless... ;-)
23:40 < trench> he should be here too
23:41 < trench> can't invite him :>
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23:45 < Bradipo> I just get tired of the mouse accidentally jumping my cursor around.
23:46 < Bradipo> This is extremely annoying when using "focus follows mouse".
23:46 < Bradipo> I don't care for the touchpad, so I plug in a USB mouse.
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23:48 < SiFuh> Bradipo: Similar, but I also have another one that is really weird and doesn't make sense to me. When I go to type in the password for the encrypted drive at boot, if I bump the touch pad, the password will be incorrect. I don't know how it can effect what I am doing at such an early stage.
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 05 00:00:14 2025