--- Log opened Tue Dec 16 00:00:07 2025
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02:51 < oldlaptop> ecbrown: Any "IGP" is going to be severely limited, at least for most workloads, simply because it doesn't have dedicated memory. (Dedicated GPUs have multiple gigabytes of memory that's much, much faster than system RAM.)
02:52 < oldlaptop> The amd64 game consoles the kids play with these days have *somewhat* similar hardware to what AMD calls an "APU", but they use the super-fast dedicated-GPU memory as system RAM.
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03:29 < ecbrown> thanks old laptop.  its running headless tigervnc over ssh now, so lightweight graphics like emacs.  i might move this unit to my desk and then i think i'll put the graphics card in
03:29 < ecbrown> i just don't want noise and unappreciated power draw
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09:20 < paulf> Is it possible to build OpenBSD without pinsyscalls?
09:21 < paulf> And if it is not possible, what was the last OpenBSD version without pinsyscalls?
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09:23 < dlg> why?
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09:25 < paulf> I'm going to be giving a talk at FOSDEM this year about what needs to be done to get Valgrind working on the BSDs (other than FreeBSD)
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09:26 < paulf> I'm not an OpenBSD developer but I've read a bit about pinsyscalls and it's pretty much a show stopper for Valgrind
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09:31 < dg> 7.5 introduced it, so 7.4 doesn't have pinsyscalls, although there are a bunch of other mitigations since 6.7 (https://www.openbsd.org/innovations.html and search for pinsyscalls)
09:32 < dg> in perl there is syscall() and it's supported via basically a massive switch statement
09:32 < dg> https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/312e26c80be876012ae9792d4323a301329d66ae maybe something like that could work for valgrind?
09:33 < dg> (that commit doesn't have the generated bit, there's an older version in https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=168894103205783&w=2)
09:34 < paulf> Possibly but it would be substantially more difficult - the Valgrind tools are statically linked and do not link with libc
09:35 < paulf> On second thoughts I don't see how libc.so could even get mmap'd without Valgrind making syscalls
09:36 < IcePic> perhaps you could make some sysctl to disable the pinsyscall check and see if it helps, rather than moving back 5-10 releases?
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09:36 < IcePic> not that it would become official, but as a local diff it could show if its possible at all
09:37 < IcePic> valgrind has been very off/on during the obsd history
09:37 < paulf> it is very high maintenance
09:37 < IcePic> and its awesome, so anyone spending time making it work is doing fine work
09:38 < paulf> Use FreeBSD ;-)
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09:47 < bountyht> So... I tried to use openrsync to sync some folders. Original is located in the local filesystem, the target is located in a NFS share.
09:48 < bountyht> It would start sending data but at some point it would stall and the discs of the target device would spin down, signaling inactivity
09:48 < bountyht> With stock rsync it seems to work.
09:48 < bountyht> ANy ideas as for possible causes?
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10:07 < IcePic> bountyht: would be interesting if you can replicate it, and use ktrace/kdump to see where it gets stuck
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12:09 < bountyht> I should try later. Right now I am transferring a lot of data and therefore the whole thing is under heavy load
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17:24 < rkta> When I opening a link in zathura(pdf viewer) chromium will be started. Where are the system wide defaults configured? I want to use FF as the default.
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17:24 < rkta> s/I /
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17:35 < vortexx> rkta: it's a gtk app so you'll need gnome-preferences I guess. Or use FF's "set default browser" setting?
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17:42 < vortexx> s/gnome-preferences/gnome-control-center
17:46 < rkta> vortexx: The make default button does nothing here. And I don't use gnome, I don't have a gnome-control-center.
17:47 < rkta> chrome must have been registered somewhere after installing the port, but where?
17:47 < lts> Some places to look https://old.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/mtibec/how_to_assign_the_default_web_browser/
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18:08 < wolfdog> firefox can't set itself as default browser because of the unveil settings, iirc
18:08 < wolfdog> iirc you can set it manually using xdg-mime, but i don't recall the specifics
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18:13 < rkta> There must be some system-wide settings.
18:14 < typicat> rkta: export BROWSER=firefox in .xsession wont do?
18:14 < rkta> typicat: BROWSER is set to w3m already
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18:20 < cgnarne> there are no system wide settings for that. who knows what gnome/gtk/firefox do...
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18:29 < jmcunx> setting BROWSER should work for thunderbird, I think what is used depends upon the program you are using
18:30 < rkta> It does not work for zathura.
18:30 < typicat> maybe it's just zathuras picking. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/618337/setting-default-browser-for-zathura
18:31 < rkta> After pkg_delete chromium xdg-settings reports FF as default. Something must change this when adding the chromium port. What changes it where?
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18:43 < mischief> isn't that done with xdg stuff?
18:43 < mischief> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_MIME_Applications
18:46 < mischief> i run into this silly stuff fairly often, like .wav files triggering Windows Media Player installer in WINE on linux :)
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18:48 < JohnGalt> hi all, setting up openbsd. I ran into a problem where the system ssh-agent is not running, and the first line of my .xsession which is setxkbmap -option ctrl:swapcaps has no effect
18:48 < JohnGalt> what handles the system ssh-agent ?
18:49 < JohnGalt> do I need to start a service?
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18:49 < rkta> According to the arch wiki this should be configured in a mimeapps.list file. But find does not find anything with that name in either /etc nor in /usr
18:49 < thrig> grep -lr ssh-agent /etc/X11
18:50 < JohnGalt> thanks!
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18:53 < u0_a366> allo is there a specific channel for ports related queries
18:55 -!- u0_a366 is now known as DUMBGUY
18:57 < ssm_> just asking here should be fine
18:58 < ssm_> ports@openbsd.org is the official address for ports related queries, though misc@openbsd.org is maybe better if you just have a simple question
18:59 < DUMBGUY> well it's regarding jdk25, im trying to build it from ports but im getting bad patch errors
18:59 < DUMBGUY> im gonna post a paste
19:00 < ssm_> DUMBIDIOT: make sure to put in a pastebin like 0x0.st or x0.at
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19:08 < JohnGalt> I can't seem to figure out X. I have tried .xsession and .xinitrc manually starting but only the last line of my configuration takes effect, and the /etc/X11 configuration to run gpg-agent is not working
19:08 < JohnGalt> it was working before I rebooted, likely my changes somewhere have broke it, but it is puzzling because I never changed anything in /etc/X11
19:08 < DUMBGUY> actually being able to look at the whole output it seems jdk relies on bash being installed :v ... someone tell me im not insane, though: https://termbin.com/dl01
19:09 < typicat> JohnGalt: .xsession executes if you start x with xendom, .xinitrc if you do not 
19:10 < JohnGalt> typicat: I tried both
19:10 < typicat> look at ~/.xsession-errors then
19:10 < ssm_> DUMBGUY: this is actually shells/bash failing to patch if you look at the top
19:11 < JohnGalt> https://bpa.st/6WYA
19:11 < JohnGalt> this is my xsession
19:12 < typicat> ctrl:nocaps
19:12 < ssm_> you can cd into ${PORTSDIR=/usr/ports}/pobj/bash-* and navigate to where the patches are failing. though this really shouldn't happen regularly. you can try upgrading your cvs tree to see if it just works(tm) and the bad patches are corrected
19:12 < JohnGalt> https://bpa.st/BZKQ
19:12 < typicat> yours is crl:nocaps
19:12 < JohnGalt> this is the error
19:13 < JohnGalt> typicat: Oh good! thanks!
19:13 < DUMBGUY> ssm_ my nightmares come true
19:13 < ssm_> pass -C to update flags to remove local modifications, and check for C lines in the output that require manually patching (tee to a logfile recommended)
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19:14 < ssm_> s/manually patching/manually merging/
19:22 < ssm_> DUMBGUY: are you running -current?
19:22 < ssm_> stuff like this shouldn't happen on -stable
19:22 < ssm_> if you're on -stable make sure you appended -rOPENBSD_7_8 to your checkout/updates
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19:38 < rkta> looks like it's in /usr/local/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache where xdg is getting the defaults from.
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19:40 < rkta> just had to restore my system after a kernel panic after sysupgrade -s... Updating packages rn, trying to reinstall chrome to confirm that is the right file
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19:43 < f451> hi, can openbsd have mouse in console, i mean like 'glass console' actual console
19:44 < ssm_> f451: yes, read wsmoused(8)
19:45 < ssm_> note that wsmoused is not compatible with Xorg. you'll need to stop wsmoused before starting X, probably a good usecase for a nopass doas rule
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19:47 < ssm_> /etc/X11/xenodm/GiveConsole and TakeConsole are good for this if you use xenodm, if you use xinit, put your rcctl commmands to stop/start wsmoused before and after your window manager (your window manager will block until it exits)
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19:56 < f451> thanks!
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19:57 < f451> (copying and pasting that right there into mousepad for reference)
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20:00 < f451> my eyesight aint great and console with the default font in tmux is great
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20:10 < rkta> I reinstall chrome and removed all entries for it from /usr/local/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache. Seems to fix the issue. Also chmod 444 the file. Hope that prevents future annoyances.
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20:21 < mischief> you could just define your own handler in $HOME
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20:24 < rkta> yes
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21:29 < polarian> with rad.conf(5) is there a way to specify a subnet within the subnet to allocate addresses from
21:29 < polarian> setting prefix adjusts the prefix length advertised too
21:30 < polarian> but from what it appears, rad advertises a random v6 within the block which is billions of possibilities, my concern is that a static allocated IPv6 would conflict with rad... but the statistical probability would be almost zero
21:31 < polarian> but say there was a higher probability of it, aka you had thousands of static addresses, you still want both devices with static allocation and rad to be on the same subnet, does rad always ensure that it allocates a unique address by checking ndp?
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21:35 < dlg> pretty sure there's a probe mechanism in the random address assignment stuff to avoid conflicts
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21:37 < mischief> at least one client i know of can pick a chosen address/address suffix from the available prefix
21:37 < polarian> dlg: so in other words, stop overthinking everything :p
21:38 < dlg> no, they're interesting questions and it's useful to know the answer
21:39 < dlg> i think you want to search for slaac dad
21:40 < dlg> or just ipv6 dad
21:46 < mischief> speaking of which, any ideas why dhcp6leased doesn't do IA_NA
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21:46 < polarian> dlg: hmm did some brief reading, so devices on the same network broadcast neighbour solicit packets, if a device is allocated an address already in use, the device returns NA and the device is reallocated a new address
21:46 < uzuri> hi
21:47 < dlg> yeah
21:47 < uzuri> how can i make android phones happy
21:47 < polarian> but if a device is not listening for NS packets (as you dont need to) conflicts can occur then 
21:47 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:47 < polarian> so even on static assigned devices I believe if you have NS it will NA any duplicate addresses broadcasted by RAD
21:47 < uzuri> "connected but no internet access"
21:48 < dlg> hosts with static addresses still answer ns
21:48 < polarian> however what if your device with a static IPv6 is not up 24/7, and its IP is reallocated
21:48 < uzuri> but i have internet access, can browse perfectly fine
21:48 < dlg> it serves the same role as arp for ipv4
21:48 < dlg> it's necessary for mapping ipv6 addresses to mac addresses on the ethernet segment
21:48 < polarian> yeah ndp
21:48 < dlg> so static addrs will still answer ndp/ns queries
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21:49 < polarian> dlg: sorry when I said NS I meant RA 
21:49 < polarian> RA is optional you dont need to listen to them 
21:49 < polarian> dlg: its a requirement to route anyways 
21:49 < dlg> yeah, but RA isnt used for DAD
21:50 < dlg> a router sends RAs
21:50 < polarian> RA is from the router though, DAD is just to detect conflicts 
21:50 < dlg> yes
21:50 < polarian> but if you get a duplicate IP you would send a router solicit packet back iirc
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21:51 < dlg> or retry using the info you already had
21:51 < polarian> and then you get a new address through RA
21:51 < polarian> im not the most knowledable when it comes to IPv6, although my IPv6 generally works :p
21:51 < dlg> i dont think RAs reply to rtsols with specific addresses 
21:52 < dlg> i think they just say "here's a subnet, and this is my ip on it"
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21:52 < dlg> and the recipient of the RA will pick an address out of the subnet
21:52 < dlg> then do DAD
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21:56 < polarian> dlg: ah so it happens client side
21:56 < polarian> the randomization within the subnet 
21:56 < polarian> technically that means you can randomize your IPv6 address every 60 seconds or something
21:56 < polarian> hard to track a device which keeps changing its address xD
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21:59 < mischief> polarian: sure, you can also set rad to advertise shorter lifetimes as well
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22:00 < polarian> eh theres little reason to but would be funny 
22:00 < polarian> anyways /64 is the smallest subnet, unless you are spanning a bigger subnet in which the remote server wont assume its all the same network its pointless 
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22:05 < xse> anyone tried running the bunch of son/lid/prowl... *aar tools ? thinking of getting a more user-friendly setup for non computer type family members. Never tried running C-hashtag stuff i guess mono is around, still might be better off using vmd or an old sbc and a supported system
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22:07 < mischief> i have no idea what any of those things are
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22:08 < uzuri> same
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22:15 < xse> yeah i don't use em myself but they're basically little web interfaces for indexing/fetching media, something you can setup alongside things like jellyfin/plex which once setup would be easier to use for someone who don't get computers rather than teaching them how to use a multitudes of different concepts and websites and softwares
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22:19 < xse> at the moment i just dump stuff they ask for on a internal website with directory listing and they manage to drag and drop into their media player, but they ask for lots of random stuff and it'll be easier if they could do it themselves
22:19 < xse> heh i'll give it a go on the week end when i get the change, worst case scenario it'll run on linux/fbsd
22:21 < JohnGalt> I setup a ssh key with a yubikey, and it requires a touch when I execute a ssh command. I thought it put the key on it, but from a message I saw evidently it signs it? I have other keys, and i would like to make a backup. How to I duplicate or recreate the ssh component of the ssh key I created?
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22:24 < Bradipo> What is "the ssh component"?
22:24 < JohnGalt> whatever is ssh related on the yubikey
22:24 < JohnGalt> I just want to program a backup key
22:25 < JohnGalt> Bradipo: thanks for replying!
22:25 < Bradipo> yubikey and backup don't easily go well together, from what I gather.
22:25 < JohnGalt> mmm, bummer
22:25 < Bradipo> But don't take my word for it... :-)
22:26 < sibiria> nor does google titan security key
22:26 < sibiria> one way in, no way out. lost key = lost auth
22:26 < JohnGalt> Ill dig around, but using yubikeys does not seem to be common case
22:26 < sibiria> one hell of a enterprisey single point of failure
22:27 < JohnGalt> Where I have worked if a yubikey died or was lost a another one would be issued and re-registered
22:27 < mischief> i assume you are using ed25519-sk
22:28 < mischief> the point is that the private key material does not leave the device
22:28 < JohnGalt> yes
22:31 < JohnGalt> Ive programmed it with gnupg before, I just don't understand the ssh part yet
22:31 < pardis> there is no reason to have a backup of an ssh key, just have two ssh keys and install both everywhere
22:31 < Bradipo> And in fact, the same is true for yubikey.  Just have 2.
22:32 < pardis> not like authorized_keys has a size limit
22:32 < JohnGalt> yeah I was starting to go there
22:32 < Bradipo> One that is locked up as a backup.
22:32 < JohnGalt> good idea
22:34 < uzuri> android just hates PF
22:35 < Bradipo> In what way?
22:35 < uzuri> too stupid to recognize internet access
22:36 < uzuri> bought a new athn card so i could finally ditch my wifi AP thats behind my main openbsd box
22:36 < uzuri> with the AP i had double nat, but besides that everything worked flawless
22:37 < Bradipo> Ahh, that, yes, because their idea of "internet" is constrained.
22:37 < uzuri> now when i directly connect to the openbsd box with android, it works, i have a good connection, is fast and so on
22:37 < uzuri> BUT
22:37 < uzuri> android just doesnt think that this network has internet access
22:38 < Bradipo> I had similar experiences with other devices which simultaneous claim that there is no "internet", while at the same time accessing websites without hassle.
22:38 < uzuri> some stupid connectivity check or something is failing and i cat see the reason my
22:38 < uzuri> *why
22:38 < uzuri> Bradipo: on openbsd? i did not have this issue on OPNsense or literall anywhere else
22:39 < Bradipo> I don't think it has anything to do with OpenBSD.
22:39 < uzuri> i tried different wifi channels, different wifi modes, no success
22:40 < uzuri> Bradipo: i think strongly it has to do with my ability to use openbsd, more so probably a mistake in my pf.conf
22:40 < uzuri> but no clue when everything else works on the phone
22:41 < uzuri> this will stop apps from autoupdating and wont automatically connect to the wifi now, not good
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22:41 < mischief> add log to pf, tcpdump it etc
22:41 < pardis> https://android.stackexchange.com/a/63485
22:41 < uzuri> pardis: saw alr, its 1 years old
22:41 < pardis> nearly 12 years old, so may not still be accurate
22:42 < uzuri> doubt they still have the same urls
22:42 < pardis> there are no URLs in that post
22:42 < pardis> did you try opening those ports?
22:44 -!- nologin [~nightwolf@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:45 < uzuri> pardis: ah was another post i meant
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22:46 < uzuri> i do not even have any ports restricted
22:46 < sibiria> uzuri: are you sure that athn(4) works at all? tried associating with it using another device?
22:46 < uzuri> 'pass in on athn0 inet' is my last rule in pf.conf
22:47 < uzuri> sibiria: yes, works fine on my openbsd laptop
22:47 < sibiria> my own personal experience with several athn(4)-compatible chipsets was that none worked at all. constant problems for devices staying associated with it. can i ask what chipset it is?
22:48 < uzuri> would be interesting if windows would complain in some similar way, dont have any windows at home tho
22:48 < pardis> and what about traffic passed out to the internet?
22:48 < uzuri> sibiria: really? i was under the impression that athn and ath drivers are the most solid of all?
22:49 < uzuri> pardis: 'pass out quick inet'
22:49 < Bradipo> I'm not sure you need quick...
22:50 < uzuri> sibiria: i have an ar9285
22:50 < sibiria> i've never used anything ath(4), but the 4-5 different athn(4) devices i tried as late as 7.1 or 7.2 all failed. completely unusable. over the years there have been others in here asking for help with the same
22:50 < sibiria> 9285 is one of the chips i've not tested
22:51 < uzuri> what drivers even provide AP mode besides ath and athn
22:51 < uzuri> i dont think there are any
22:51 < sibiria> ral does. i ran it for over 10 years. flawless performance, but stuck in 11g
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22:53  * uzuri sighs and opens amazon.com
22:54 < uzuri> mischief: will do, u maybe know a good app to run something similar to tcpdump on android?
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22:58 < uzuri> oh wow theres quite a few options on wi(4)
22:58 < uzuri> sibiria: what do you think of wi(4) cards?
22:58 < uzuri> how do i even know which driver is mature and which isnt
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23:04 < Bradipo> Personally, I wouldn't bother with making OpenBSD a wifi AP.  Just put it somewhere beyond it so you can filter traffic.
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23:10 < mischief> wi(4) is ancient
23:12 < uzuri> Bradipo: :(
23:13 < uzuri> my thinking is that if im already somwehat dependent on wifi, i atleast want to run in on code written by openbsd devs
23:13 < uzuri> not some god knows what other thing you cant look insise
23:13 < uzuri> inside
23:21 < mischief> unfortunately, them's the breaks
23:21 < xse> as far as i understand it's doable but might be buggy and will be slow, i'd search misc@ for specific chipsets and so on
23:21 < echelon> some years back i remember seeing somebody root into people's laptops by using some wifi driver vulnerability
23:22 < mischief> any wifi chipset worth a damn has firmware anyway
23:22 < xse> on the other hand we have controller software for the ubiquiti unifi AP in ports
23:23 < mischief> xse: isn't that just a java application?
23:23 < mischief> i remember trying to run it on windows like 10 years ago
23:23 < xse> might very well be yeah
23:24 < xse> it is indeed
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23:34 < f451> hi, in dmesg are there meant to be like three of them?
23:34 -!- adip [~adip@c145-48.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:35 < f451> if i run dmesg there appears to be three concatenated, which is the most recent?
23:36 < sibiria> uzuri: i don't know anything about wi(4). i cannot recall anyone ever mentioning it :)
23:36 < Bradipo> uzuri: I run a separate wifi so that when I want to disable wifi I just unplug the device.  Nothing more secure than a wifi that is powered off.
23:37 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:38 < f451> thinking about it, i guess it has to be the end one, lol
23:38 -!- OnASnoopPhone [~OnASnoopP@user/OnASnoopPhone] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:38 < f451> but why are there three
23:38 < xse> dmesg can survive reboots yeah i recall it being the case on rpi
23:38 < xse> > On some systems the message buffer can survive reboot and be retained (in the hope of exposing information from a crash).
23:39 < f451> surprised theres not a dmesg.latest
23:39 < f451> or similar
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23:43 < sibiria> it's called dmesg.boot
23:44 < sibiria> oh never mind, now i read you. you just want the most recent init output
23:45 < f451> yep :D
23:45 < f451> its no biggie, just surprising
23:45 < sibiria> a bit, yeah
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23:49 < f451> this thing is a core2 e5800 from 2010
23:49 < f451> i tried installing netbsd on it but it didnt like it
23:49 < f451> openbsd seems fine though
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23:51 < f451> dual nic usb2&3. 
--- Log closed Wed Dec 17 00:00:09 2025