--- Log opened Thu Jan 15 00:00:40 2026
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00:09 < thrig> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=176838543009473&w=2  might be relevant "which does not sync mmap()ed file contents"
00:13 < treefrob> which would imply that cyrus imapd requires W^X
00:14 < treefrob> or at least would like it
00:15 < fro> oh yeah almost forgot about that
00:15 < fro> my original mail got mangled i see
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00:15 < fro> :(
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01:42 < polarian> I was just thinking it would be cool if you could expand multiple tables
01:42 < polarian> so for example
01:42 < polarian> foo={ 1, 2, 3, 4 }
01:42 < polarian> bar={ 5, 6, 7, 8 }
01:42 < polarian> baz={ $foo, $bar }
01:43 < polarian> so baz would be { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 }
01:43 < dlg> it would be cool
01:43 < polarian> my containers share a lot of ports, like all containers need https, ntp etc
01:43 < polarian> dns ^^
01:43 < polarian> its rather annoying having to repeat the same ports
01:43 < polarian> rather than having some default ports in a table, and then being able to merge them 
01:43 < dlg> the problem is variable expansion in the parser replaces text, but doesnt parse it again for variable expansion
01:45 < thrig> m4 or other such templating systems could be used
01:45 < dlg> cpp | pfctl -f -
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01:47 < polarian> dlg: dont get what you said, im stupid :p
01:47 < polarian> all I know is that having a big list of udp ports, tcp ports for both client/server means you have a massive block of tables
01:48 < polarian> the more hosts, the more tables... and this scales and scales... 
01:48 < polarian> then again I guess you could anchor it
01:48 < dlg> unfortunately there's no equivalent of tables for ports
01:48 < polarian> have each host's config in its own anchor, but then you will be loading tons of anchors which I assume will hit both IO and perf
01:48 < dlg> you end up creating a rule for each port
01:48 < polarian> actually arent anchors loaded once?
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01:49 < polarian> not dynamically
01:49 < polarian> so pfctl -f /etc/pf.conf will load all the anchors with it
01:49 < dlg> yes and no
01:49 < polarian> the only dynamic option in pf is I believe file based tables?
01:49 < dlg> you can have inline anchors in a pf.conf ruleset, and they will be loaded as part of the same transaction
01:49 < dlg> but often the optimiser gets confused about the scope of some things, so in practice it hasnt worked well
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01:52 < phy1729> Would a "port table" help that much since skip steps are a thing?
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01:54 < dlg> maybe
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01:59 < dlg> the more i think i know about making software fast, the less i am confident about it
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02:00 < phy1729> I enjoyed that one case where adding NOPs made the code faster because something about the microcode cache getting full
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02:02 < thrig> as opposed to a nop sled to hell
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02:15 < rtj> I'd care more about software being stable than fast. Plus I have the paitence of Mr. Miyagi. All my hardware is old anyways. :)
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11:41 < mrbubzie93_> Anyone use plasma
11:44 < mrbubzie93_> Curious if anyone using Wayland on plasma
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12:17 < TommyC> Isn't Plasma forcing users to use Wayland starting with 6.8?
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12:25 < mrbubzie93_> Version 7
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12:26 < mrbubzie93_> Openbsd devs really should start focusing on Wayland for gnome and Kde….the end of xorg is coming fast
12:28 < sibiria> wayland may be the future, but X isn't going away fast
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12:31 < mrbubzie93_> Tell that to Kde and gnome devs
12:32 < mrbubzie93_> Version 50 of gnome drops x11 completely
12:32 < mrbubzie93_> We’re already at 49
12:32 < k0ga> easy, don't use gnome or kde
12:33 < mrbubzie93_> k0ga I wanna keep my sanity
12:33 < k0ga> then, don't use them
12:33 < k0ga> your sanity would improve a lot
12:34 < mrbubzie93_> should probably just cli everything lol
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12:36 < mischief> it's really nice not having space taken up by borders, title bars, no stupid animations/fading/etc
12:36 < mischief> tiling is the way to go
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12:41 < k0ga> mischief: indee
12:41 < k0ga> d
12:41 < k0ga> I use dwm, and it is way more productive
12:41 < k0ga> I stopped using gnome around 13 years ago and I didn't regret ever
12:43 < mischief> i think i was on lxde or xfce for a bit, i've been on spectrwm so long i do not remember anything before :)
12:44 < mrbubzie93_> Yeah but I’m retarded
12:45 < mischief> if you are using openbsd and on irc, probably at least 50% of people are stupider than you, so give yourself some credit ;)
12:48 < IcePic> I stopped using gnome when they took away all customization options while also changing the prefs to defaults I didn't like. 
12:48 < IcePic> I don't mind that much if defaults change, but if they also remove the possibility to get old behaviour back, then its another thing
12:49 < k0ga> for me, the only thing that bugs me is when browsers will stop supporting X
12:50 < k0ga> I suppose at that time I would just configure some vm with linux only to run browsers and that is
12:50 < mrbubzie93_> I don’t think you understand I can’t read or write
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12:57 < IcePic> like tmux changed to ctrl-b from screens old ctrl-a, but people could just revert back if they needed
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13:17 < oldlaptop> IcePic: See, that's the thing about KDE: knobs are almost the whole point
13:17 < oldlaptop> I think the outraged fork would be bigger than the original if they ever decided to move to a knob-less philosophy
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13:24 < pardis> that's why it's called the Knob Desktop Environment
13:25 < pardis> I've been hearing "the end of xorg is coming fast" for at least the last 15 years
13:25 < pardis> sure seems speedy
13:26 < oldlaptop> "the end of X support from the two big desktops" really does seem to be coming up now
13:26 < oldlaptop> (which I realize is a different thing from "the end of xorg")
13:27 < oldlaptop> gnome being gnome you can probably expect "the end of X support in GTK" pretty quick too
13:28 < oldlaptop> on the other hand the end of X support in xterm seems somewhat more remote, and xterm always was the real killer app
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13:33 < sibiria> mrbubzie93_: openbsd has its own X product and while it takes patches and changes from up stream it's not wholly dependant on the parent project, and same goes for how X is affected by what KDE, Gnome etc. decides to do
13:34 < sibiria> it will reduce feedback to the parent project, but that's not the same as the parent immediately becomoing defunct or vanishing in an instant
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13:36 < sibiria> i'm sure X will be committed to history, but not tomorrow
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13:36 < oldlaptop> The relevant parts of X.org have been "dead upstream" for quite some time now, that's not exactly new
13:37 < IcePic> oldlaptop: lets call it "the api has been stable for a long time"
13:38  * oldlaptop thinks of TeX and METAFONT version numbers approaching pi and e
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13:42 < paulf> ksh93 was also running out of alphabet until they switched to an additional 1.0.0
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15:55 < moviuro> hi all, can unbound(8) listen on multiple rdomains? from looking at unbound.conf(5), there is no mention of rdomains in it :/ corollary: how do I get clients in another rdomain to use my unbound(8) instance that's already running (in rdomain 0)?
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15:57 < sibiria> by redirecting traffic to it in pf
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15:59 < bleb> any BCHS people here? a la learnbchs.org
16:00 < bleb> I was wondering if anyone knows any books about writing CGI scripts in C
16:00 < bleb> printed books
16:01 < bleb> I think it was somewhat common when perl was still in its infancy
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16:08 < mischief> do you have a specific question or you just want to read
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16:18 < xse> the kcgi website is worth looking at for little tutorials and explainations
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16:49 < bleb> mischief: mostly just want to read and maybe make it easier to understand old cgi code bases
16:50 < bleb> the only biggish C cgi programs I'm aware of are the webmail clients prayer and sqwebmail
16:50 < bleb> xse: which website?
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16:52 < mischief> bleb: same guy behind bchs. https://kristaps.bsd.lv/
16:52 < mischief> https://kristaps.bsd.lv/kcgi/
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16:55 < xse> yep that one
16:56 < mischief> bleb: you can read the rfcs for cgi and http perhaps :)
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17:10 < bleb> cool thanks
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17:34 < seninha> Hi, some manpages use .Em for the header line (athn(4), mandoc_char(7), etc); while others use .Sy (bc(1), stdio(3), etc). Is there some reason or logic in the choice, or is it arbitrary? 
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17:52 < passstab> My firefox won't launch unless I use safe mode.
17:53 < passstab> When I try to exit safe mode, I get 'firefox[49859]: pledge "", syscall 289
17:53 < passstab> Exiting due to channel error.'
17:53 < passstab> Running stable.
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18:01 < passstab> brb
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18:22 < passstab> In case anyone was wondering, the problem was that I had enabled VAAPI on Firefox.
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18:47 < Bradipo> passstab: Never heard of VAAPI.
18:48 < cgnarne> Intel Video acceleration
18:49 < passstab> Bradipo video acceleration api
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18:50 < passstab> It had been working great for me. Youtube was much better with vaapi.
18:51 < passstab> but for some reason, I needed to disable it to launch ff without safe mode now. (I understand I could also disable pledge as well.)
18:52 < cgnarne> did you build ff yourself?
18:52 < Bradipo> It was working, but now it's not?
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18:53 < passstab> I did not build it myself.
18:53 < mischief> presumably something in vaapi violates pledge
18:53 < passstab> Bradipo, yes
18:54 < Bradipo> But then, how was it working before?
18:54 < passstab> I used this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd1JHZIGx48
18:54 < Bradipo> I have to watch a video to understand?
18:54 < passstab> no
18:54 < Bradipo> If it was working before, but is not now, what changed?
18:55 < passstab> I assume something was updated that now uses syscall 289?
18:57 < passstab> I tried disabling all my firefox extentions, and that didn't help. But switching back to software rendering, did. (reversing the steps in the video above.)
18:59 < passstab> The problem started when I turned on my computer today, so I'm not sure whether an update would have only taken effect at that point.
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19:02 < mischief> seems like there's no pledge promise for shmget(2) (289)?
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19:13 < phy1729> shmget doesn't seem to be a particularly liked syscall https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=155103884512532&w=2
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19:20 < passstab> If anyone wants to help me figure out where that call came from, or what is really going on here, I'd be happy to follow instructions. Otherwise, I'm fine to make do with software acceleration.
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19:28 < cgnarne> did you do a pkg_add -u ?
19:29 < passstab> cgnarne yes
19:30 < cgnarne> did that change the version of Firefox you're using?
19:30 < passstab> no
19:32 < passstab> Honestly, I can't remember there being any packages that were updated yesterday.
19:32 < passstab> I just don't know what else would explain this.
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19:33 < passstab> BTW, I'm not doing anything weird with firefox extensions either, it is just UBlock Origin and LocalCDN.
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19:39 < SiFuh> glxinfo | grep -Ei "direct rendering|renderer"
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19:41 < passstab> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/12328b51
19:42 < passstab> SiFuh
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19:43 < SiFuh> llvmpipe <-- Software rendering?  
19:44 < cgnarne> yeah, that's sus
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19:55 < passstab> wait, are you saying that I didn't have hardware acceleration before? I'm certain there is a lot more stuttering on youtube videos now, then there was before.
19:57 < SiFuh> Do you have a GPU, what is it? Have you done a fw_update?
19:58 < SiFuh> I would not be surprised if Video Acceleration (VA-API or VAAPI as you called) is trying to access the GPU whilst firefox is using the CPU.
19:58 < passstab> Intel
20:01 < passstab> it is a ThinkPad p14s, I think it has integrated arc graphics.
20:02 < passstab> vainfo gives  'libva error: vaGetDriverNames() failed with unknown libva error
20:02 < passstab> vaInitialize failed with error code -1 (unknown libva error),exit'
20:04 < SiFuh> inteldrm <-- do you have this firmware? 'fw_update'  
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20:15 < passstab>  SiFuh Yes, when I just ran fw_update, 'intel' itself was updated, but not 'inteldrm'.
20:15 < SiFuh> Well, it may not be supported yet
20:17 < passstab> I'm sure I've gotten better responses from vainfo in the past.
20:19 < SiFuh> Your pledge call is most likely because firefox is trying to access the GPU. Since you don't have 3D acceleration, pledge is getting triggered. 
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20:20 < passstab> Then why did it work before?
20:21 < SiFuh> Whilst running firefox or opening firefox? 
20:21 < SiFuh> Termination would probably be from opening firefod.
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20:22 < SiFuh> Firefox.
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20:22 < passstab> I mean gpu acceleration.
20:24 < SiFuh> I doubt you ever had GPU accelleration. 
20:24 < cgnarne> are you sure it did work?
20:24 < SiFuh> I've an AMD and since 7.5 I had pretty much the same issue.
20:26 < SiFuh> Since fw_update actually gave me firmware I decided to download the kernel source and fix the problem myself. If fw_update doesn't give you inteldrm, then you had no 3D acceleration with your GPU. You were using software all along. 
20:27 < SiFuh> Firefox is terrible on computers without hardware (GPU) acceleration. 
20:27 < passstab> I have inteldrm, I just didn't have an update for it.
20:28 < SiFuh> fw_update -l   shows inteldrm ?
20:29 < passstab> wait, oh
20:29 < passstab> it does
20:30 < passstab> but is it weird that it also shows 'intel'?
20:30 < SiFuh> Check your dmesg, find out if anything has happened during loading. Maybe your GPU is a bit too new and not fully supported yet.
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20:31 < SiFuh> Well it is 04:30 here, have amplifer to repair later today, so I should get some sleep. But yess passstab, I'd recommend looking into why you are using software rendering instead of the GPU first before you mess around with firefox.
20:33 < passstab> Thank you very much for your help. I do now understand that it is about the rendering itself, and not Firefox.
20:37 < passstab> Here are some dmesg things that I think might matter? https://paste.debian.net/hidden/470e048c
20:39 < SiFuh> Yep, it's right there. Your system tried, it failed, so it fell back to a more pimitive means.
20:40 < SiFuh> You might have to do some kernel hacking :-)
20:42 < passstab> Should I bother reporting the regression?
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20:45 < cgnarne> ask on the ml. maybe someone there can help
20:45 < passstab> ok, thank you
20:46 < cgnarne> or try running current. maybe it is already working there
20:47 < passstab> which list would be most appropriate?
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20:49 < cgnarne> i'd go with misc
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20:51 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #openbsd to: Unofficial OpenBSD support channel; try to stay on topic | https://www.openbsd.org | https://www.openbsd.org/faq | Read These Fine Manual Pages (we can help find the right one): https://man.openbsd.org/ | Can't speak? https://libera.chat/guides/registration | 3+ line pastes? termbin.com, bpa.st, et al | No politics, etc.
20:52 < oldlaptop> (paste.debian.net appears to be switching to a Markov bot if you navigate there without Javascript enabled, or something)
20:53 < oldlaptop> suggestions still welcome, but not willing to have that in there anymore
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20:55 < connstruct> odd, i use it without js. i'll keep an eye on that
20:57 < oldlaptop> It might also not like seamonkey's user-agent, or something
20:58 < cgnarne> looks fine here
20:58 < oldlaptop> who the hell knows - it's not my IP, it likes another browser behind the same connection just fine
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20:59 < Bradipo> Bot's are going to make a wasteland of useful sites, lol.
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21:02 < oldlaptop> I suppose so.
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21:10 < Bradipo> I've already had a bot disappear a legitimate bug filed on GitHub.
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