--- Log opened Sun Feb 01 00:00:04 2026
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00:12 < vortexx> jason123onirc: it may be but on OpenBSD we don't deal with the magnitude of patches that linux systems need, just because the kernel is better hardened and the base software (that's the userland) has been audited and is all coded following recommended styles to prevent unnecessary bugs happening
00:12 < vortexx> I don't how often you have to reflash your OpenWRT device
00:12 < vortexx> https://www.openbsd.org/errata78.html we just have to run syspatch to get this dealt with
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00:13 < sibiria> openwrt has a new point release out every few months
00:13 < sibiria> updating is a small procedure, done and over with in 3 minutes
00:14 < vortexx> so not very different from what we deal with
00:14 < sibiria> but truly in a completely different category than openbsd. the two cannot supplant eachother
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00:14 < vortexx> what happens if your hw isn't on the most supported list though ?
00:15 < sibiria> it's not too bad, they try hard to keep things supported for years
00:15 < vortexx> ( I seem to remember there are people that keep images compiled for various devices outside of -main or whatever they do but that means more random updates I'd have thought...)
00:15 < vortexx> ok
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00:16 < sibiria> for the case of using openwrt solely as a modern wifi AP it's just a matter of $30-40 if your device would stop getting updates
00:17 < sibiria> $30-40 for a modern and supported replacement, that is
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00:20 < uzuri> i wanna use a minipc running openbsd as an AP, but dont feel like spending ~200$ :/
00:21 < uzuri> (for a usable pc+antenna combo)
00:22 < sibiria> get a used HP *desk thingy, the "elitedesk" etc., and a cheap wifi range extender that openwrt supports
00:22 < sibiria> used lenovo thinkcentre/ideacentre are decent, too
00:23 < uzuri> they desk thningies are fanless i hope?
00:23 < uzuri> might be a good option
00:23 < sibiria> some of them are, yes
00:24 < vortexx> uzuri: never do the OpenBSD hostap route, it's not worth the pain, the money wasted, and the eventual need to go buy something that just works (with some other OS)
00:25 < vortexx> speeds, if you get a constant signal that doesn't suddenly drop, will be too slow for most home uses
00:25 < uzuri> aw
00:26 < uzuri> i actually tried an atheros card on my openbsd router directly (for testing purposes ofc) and the speed was decent
00:26 < uzuri> just the range was really bad
00:26 < uzuri> had to be in the same room
00:29 < systemdsucks> someone said that on fosdem today
00:29 < sibiria> i ran RT28xx (ral(4) device) for over 10 years. super stable, great range, but stuck in 802.11g land
00:29 < systemdsucks> get a cheap AP, put it on a vlan
00:29 < vortexx> polarian's presentation did covers this indeed systemdsucks 
00:30 < systemdsucks> I watched a couple of hours, was great
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00:32 < polarian> uzuri: wifi talk maybe coming soon
00:32 < polarian> but im traumatised
00:32 < polarian> so probably not doing a cfp again
00:32 < polarian> lol
00:33 < thrig> vlan the impaler
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00:34 < polarian> now imma sleep because I gotta be up in 7 hours for FOSDEM
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00:52 < vortexx> when FOSDEM put up the vids, I'm looking forward to watching the one on "are commercial risc-v processors secure?"
00:52 < vortexx> not that I have invested in that hw
00:54 < thrig> trusting trust can get tricky
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01:18 < uzuri> sibiria: 802.11g would be acceptable for me tbh
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01:19 < uzuri> systemdsucks: i kinda wanna avoid running a linux kernel :/
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01:22 < uzuri> polarian: looking forward 2 it
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01:23 < JetpackJackson> Was fosdem today?
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01:32 < vortexx> JetpackJackson: today and tomorrow
01:36 < JetpackJackson> Ah ok
01:37 < systemdsucks> uzuri: I'm ok just avoiding systemD :p
01:37 < uzuri> systemdsucks: openwrt has no systemd?
01:40 < systemdsucks> no idea
01:45 < uzuri> systemdsucks: i searXed, it actually runs something similar to sysvinit :D
01:46 < systemdsucks> sorry, making dinner 
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01:56 < rtj> polarian: is spreading the gospel of puffy
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04:30 < jason123onirc> vortexx, that makes sense and its cool that an entire router can be made off of the built in software on openbsd 
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06:25 < avemestr> polarian: It went fine. I was just impressed that you did the talk and made it through all the slides without it feeling rushed after loosing some time to the setup. Also: You managed to fill a room at the end of the day, so your topic certainly hit right at FOSDEM.
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07:01 < byteskeptical> avemestr: have a link for that talk?
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08:18 < avemestr> byteskeptical: The BSD talks will be uploaded here: https://video.fosdem.org/2026/k3201/ - so far the first 4 out of 8 have been uploaded - Omar Polos gotwebd and polarians talk is still pending.
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11:08 < polarian> avemestr: thx ig
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11:13 < byteskeptical> avemestr: thank you
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12:50 < JetpackJackson> polarian: glad to hear your talk went well :)
12:51 < vortexx> polarian: you may or may not know this but it used to be a right of passage for geeks to build their own routers, using whatever they had at hand. Your presentation illustrates this exactly
12:52 < vortexx> no wonder you filled a room
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12:58 < rtj> I remember doing that with m0n0wall vortexx 
12:58 < rtj> I'm a bit younger
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13:01 < rtj> avemestr: thank you so much
13:04 < vortexx> rtj: I did it with redhat 5.x, 6.x and then went on to OpenBSD 3.1 iirc. Haven't stopped being on OpenBSD since
13:04 < vortexx> (this is pre RHEL redhat, when it was a free distro like many others)
13:05 < rtj> I start on OpenBSD 5.x too. I started with RH 9 pre RHEL Redhat.
13:05 < rtj> We had dail up. Hard to download Linux like that back then. 
13:05 < rtj> :)
13:06 < rtj> I still have boxed copy of RH 9. It has the source and everything all on CD.
13:06 < rtj> gm #openbsd
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13:08 < vortexx> where I live we've had cable internet (and then adsl) from the late 90s, and cable internet gave you a public IP, for good or for evil :) . No CGNAT back then
13:09 < vortexx> occasionally the modem would be upgraded and you'd have to request it be put in bridge mode, and they would
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13:10 < vortexx> but yeah downloading an iso on dial up was a) so slow b) if you're paying by the minute, impossibly expensive compared to finding a shop selling a distro (or a newsagent with a linux magazine that had a distro on the cover...)
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13:12 < vortexx> I do remember buying 2-3 distros just to find one with the X11 driver I needed for my radeon r128 card. I didn't have the skill level yet to get the xfree86 sources and patch and recompile
13:12 < quinq> Yeah, having limitless traffic really unlocked things
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13:13 < vortexx> North Americans were used to limitless traffic so long as it was within 10 miles, a quirk of AT&T billing 
13:14 < quinq> jaja wat
13:15 < quinq> So that wasn't Internet, but Localnet
13:15 < vortexx> patching back then (and more to the point, keeping on top of patching) was the major problem for me, could take ages to redo a kernel etc. I moved to OpenBSD when I realised that because RH 6.x didn't have yum yet I was exposing myself to problems, and OpenBSD would mitigate or eliminate them
13:15 < vortexx> quinq: yeah that's how BBSes started and people were able to stay online for hours, just on localnet as you put it
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13:17 < avemestr> In Denmark Fidonet was somewhat popular. When you pay by the minute on the phone line, the store-and-forward delivery was perfect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet
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13:46 < rtj> vortexx: yes I remeeber the wallnut creek. I never had a CC as a kid though. ;)
13:46 < rtj> avemestr: yes, I remember fido net from the BBS documentary.
13:47 < rtj> ^m^
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14:08 < vortexx> yeah fidonet was very well architectured for the limitations of the day
14:08 < vortexx> rtj: don't worry I didn't either
14:19 < XZDX> where the FUCK is anelli
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14:23 < vortexx> XZDX: Tue Jun 10 17:23:29 2025::: noodle [~anelli@user/macarona] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:23 < vortexx> not been seen here since
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14:24 < XZDX> what the fuck?
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22:27 < deepesttoaster> TIL when I got pf to play nice with vlans it broke the port forwarding rules in pf :)
22:28 < deepesttoaster> pass in on egress inet proto tcp from any to (egress) port { 80 443 } rdr-to 192.168.1.25
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 02 00:00:05 2026