--- Log opened Fri Feb 06 00:00:11 2026
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00:30 < rnkn> lts: it was just a mistake in my login.conf
00:32 < rnkn> and the Mojolicious app is using the env from login.conf
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00:58 < rnkn> I think it is unclear from the man page whether OpenBSD::Unveil takes a scalar or an array reference as its first argument: https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD::Unveil
00:58 < rnkn> anyone know for sure? I can't tell from the source
01:02 < dg> I think that should read "path" not "paths"
01:02 < dg> it's a pretty much direct wrapper to the pledge() system call, see Pledge.xs where _pledge just calls pledge(path, ...)
01:03 < dg> er why did I say pledge, I'm looking at unveil
01:03 < rnkn> yeah the example uses a scalar
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01:34 < rnkn> why is OpenBSD::Unveil in /src/gnu? it looks like it's ISC
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01:37 < thrig> Perl uses the Artistic license which can be GNUish if you look at it funny
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01:44 < phy1729> src/gnu/README  "This directory contains software that is Gigantic and Nasty but Unavoidable."
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02:05 < Flairylumo> So I’m learning UART, going to read the manual tonight. I was able to get into it via UART off a Raspberry Pi. Hopefully I can help port OpenBSD to a VisionFive2 Lite RiscV Mini SBC. Very new to this.
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02:54 < deimosBSD> today i learned a hard lesson, unifi equipment and bsd do not mix, esp if the client requires everything offline. i even setup a vmm for arch, but the unifi controller keeps crashing and their answer is "we only support ubuntu"
02:54 < deimosBSD> the hard lesson i re-learnt was to never let the client dictate the technology
02:55 < deimosBSD> also if one ssh's into the unifi equipment, it voids the warranty
02:55 < deimosBSD> and support won't help at all
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02:57 < oldlaptop> wait, what?!
02:57 < oldlaptop> how are you supposed to configure the thing, then?
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03:02 < systemdsucks> don't know what a unifi is but sounds terrible
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03:06 < mischief> systemdsucks: commercial cloud wifi crap
03:07 < systemdsucks> lol
03:07 < systemdsucks> cloud wifi indeed sounds like crap
03:08 < dg> technically you can avoid the cloud part, or could in the past
03:13 < deimosBSD> this is not even wifi yet, just trying to setup the switches
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03:14 < deimosBSD> the desired setup according to support is: 1) install the cloud gateway on windows server, 2) plug everything into same routing domain, 3) create account on ui.com, 4) configure everything one at a time via the cloud gateway or their cloud
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03:15 < deimosBSD> also, 5) install their apps on your phone and once on wifi, manage via their app
03:15 < deimosBSD> they were baffled when I said my phone is a cisco voip decommissioned red phone from nato (bought used)
03:17 < deimosBSD> anyway, i should've just bought what I wanted and left the openbsd firewall/router in place
03:17 < lts> You can just skip the cloud and phone stuff if you have a Debian / Ubuntu VM https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/220066768-Updating-and-Installing-Self-Hosted-UniFi-Network-Servers-Linux
03:17 < deimosBSD> in theory, yes
03:17 < deimosBSD> but it crashed under debian 13 in a vmm
03:17 < deimosBSD> and then i just gave up
03:19 < deimosBSD> also,for fun, when the switch boots up, it attempts to connect to https://trace.ui.com
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03:38 < mischief> nice, it seems booting debian in vmd these days just works
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03:41 < deimosBSD> just to be clear, the ui cloud server crashes in debian 13
03:41 < deimosBSD> openbsd/vmm performed as expected
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03:44 < byteskeptical> deimosBSD: you want the Edgerouter line for that kind of experience. You can use an offline cheap smartphone with bluetooth to set up the unifi stuff without creating a ui.com account assuming you have a way to hard-line in after first reboot. Definitely not ideal but the phone home can be turned off or just blocked by your a firewall/dns sinkhole.
03:47 < deimosBSD> there's no RF allowed in this facility, so I'd have to set it up outside, which would violate the contract I signed to do everything airgapped
03:47 < byteskeptical> deimosBSD: how much ram are you givnig the vm hosting the cloud server? I only ask because I used to have a cloud key nano back in the day and at some point was unable to keep running their more recent version due to resource limitations I think it had 2Gb or ram and ran off an sd card
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03:48 < deimosBSD> i gave it like 8gb
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03:49 < deimosBSD> their code segfaults and i got tired of dealing with the whole thing after wasting a day with it
03:49 < byteskeptical> deimosBSD: wouldn't it still be air gapped outside? Do you and certainly not telling you to violate any contracts but that doesn't sounds like the environment for unifi anyway
03:49 < deimosBSD> this is a research building into some space thing, maybe neutrinos
03:49 < deimosBSD> it's gloriously airgapped and quiet
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03:52 < deimosBSD> if i could find a simple layer 2 switch that ran openbsd, i'd just use that
03:54 < rnkn> does relayd need a restart with new certificates or will just a reload suffice?
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04:02 < mischief> RIP my new debian vm, upgraded to debian 14 from 13 and the new 6.18 kernel does something vmd doesn't like
04:03 < mischief> rnkn: reload should work but beware your relayd might explode :)
04:04 < rnkn> pledge('explode')
04:05 < thrig> never upgrade!
04:06 < lts> ..to a version not due to be released until late 2027? :-) 
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04:12 < mischief> hey neat
04:12 < mischief> i found some disabled code in vmd and enabled it, and it works
04:12 < Bradipo> The code works?  Or your dead debian works?
04:15 < mischief> the disabled code in vmd does work, and the 6.18 kernel boots successfully now
04:15 < mischief> at least, nothing horrible happened yet
04:15 < mischief> https://gist.github.com/mischief/cf85fd86a69683249e3e2bb71bb822c1
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04:33 < oldlaptop> What could possibly go wrong?
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04:35 < mischief> shrug, the machine is actually my 'oldlaptop' (thinkpad a485) running -current, just for messing around on. nothing critical happening on it
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04:36 < Bradipo> Which machine?  The hardware or the vm?
04:36 < oldlaptop> I was about to say "the hell are you calling old?!", but that's... eight years now?!
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04:38 < mischief> Bradipo: both
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04:39 < thrig> eight years is a lot of javascript frameworks
04:39 < oldlaptop> Pretty sad situation for T480 to be the "old, better" stuff
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06:16 < mischief> the default tab completion of ksh93 annoys me compared to pdksh
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06:50 < byteskeptical> mischief: same very much so
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08:13 < rnkn> how do I find which facility.level a daemon logs to, i.e. relayd?
08:18 < mischief> it's just LOG_DAEMON, and the level depends on the message
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08:55 < rnkn> syslogd is confusing me... is there a way to redirect logs of different levels to different files (perhaps if they have the <N> level)?
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08:55 < rnkn> I've got daemon_logger="daemon.debug" and of course it just goes to the file specified as daemon.debug in syslog.conf, but I want daemon.warn and above to route to a different file
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08:57 < rnkn> or is a daemon's log level set in the rc.d script and that's that?
08:57 < mischief> daemon_logger can only send the program's stdout/stderr to one facility/level
08:57 < mischief> it's just a pipe to logger(1)
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08:58 < rnkn> okay cool
08:58 < rnkn> I will have to write this into the app
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09:00 < rnkn> what is the purpose of the level code <N> mentioned in syslogd(8)?
09:00 < rnkn> I thought maybe there was some parsing involved
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09:14 < mischief> rnkn: the code is part of the lower level protocol, if you were talking to syslogd directly (sendsyslog(2))
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09:15 < mischief> if you care about controlling the facility and level just make your program use openlog(3)/syslog(3) or whatever your language has
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09:17 < rnkn> mischief: maybe the problem is me, in that I shoudl reassess whether I care that much about separating levels.. hmm...
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10:01 < vortexx> rnkn: man syslog.conf, you can redirect to different levels, you can do it per daemon as well
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10:07 < vortexx> Flairylumo: ping me when you manage to get the null modem line up and running, I can show you how to do ppp over it so you can use ssh and everything instead of zmodem and cu
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12:11 < vortexx> mh nginx-1.28.2 won't build from ports, it's throwing an error when patching
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12:46 < jfsimon> Good day,
12:46 < jfsimon> Do you have recommendations for NAS hardware ? i would need 2/4 bays, fairly good quality, raw to install/run OpoenBSD
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12:48 < sibiria> the odroid h4+ has 4 SATA ports, and NVMe + eMMC slots for OS
12:49 < sibiria> definitely top quality hardware
12:50 < sibiria> nano-ITX form factor could make it a challenge to find suitable case that can take 4 3.5" disks
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12:55 < jfsimon> I think SBC's even better indeed
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12:55 < jfsimon> I have to provide a ups supply so that's much more practical.
12:57 < oldlaptop> icydock makes a bunch of stuff that slots in to normal PC cases
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12:59 < sibiria> i had a 4-bay 2.5" icydock clone that slotted into 5.25" shelf. it was an OK solution while i still ran everything in an mATX shuttlecase
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12:59 < oldlaptop> I can only vouch for these things personally, which probably aren't quite what you'd want (the big draw is that it's trayless, really) https://global.icydock.com/product_116.html
12:59 < jfsimon> Thanks, the idea is integrate an SBC, i think it will be a lot more efficient and less costly.
12:59 < oldlaptop> the 'eject' buttons are really stiff, I wouldn't be thrilled running HDDs in it
12:59 < oldlaptop> but well-built
13:00 < sibiria> i had this exact thing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/315613590046
13:00 < sibiria> back when such cost the $25 it's worth, instead of an arm and a leg
13:01 < oldlaptop> Don't remember seeing these - seems like an... "interesting" idea. (obviously also a U.2 version) https://global.icydock.com/product_233.html
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13:01 < jfsimon> Might do it, though i'm really going for 4 slots
13:01 < oldlaptop> perhaps especially interesting if you're using a something-ITX board that only has the one slot (in a micro-ATX or bigger case)
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13:03 < oldlaptop> (oh, no - it's its own HBA too?! so I guess not)
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13:05 < jfsimon> https://www.jonsbo.com/en/products/N4White.html
13:05 < jfsimon> That one lookks rater nice
13:06 < sibiria> very
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13:06 < oldlaptop> sure is a lot of bays
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13:07 < sibiria> but shuttlecase territory, so not entirely compact
13:08 < sibiria> upside is you can put any normal mATX mobo in there
13:08 < jfsimon> Got dumped by last employer, as contractual, some people are so respecteless. Any ways need develop the company, i'm going to invest a nas solution for small enterprises sell as a service. Try my luck in there.
13:09 < sibiria> best of luck
13:10 < jfsimon> i port a nas i built couple years ago, only issues i found, the OpenBSD likes clean shut-off, you can get into the boot manual fix sometimes on short power fail. Want avoid that.
13:11  * oldlaptop wouldn't think OpenBSD is obviously the right tool for that particular job
13:11 < mischief> i have a silverstone cs380 *and* a 6 bay 2.5" icydock
13:12 < mischief> overkill :)
13:12  * Ove_ farts in everyones direction
13:13 < jfsimon> Hesitate between a kind of freenas, but honestly OpenBSD does the job pretty well for simple nas stuff, i'll do a versionning, there's a good pck for that, and samba server. At least that's the idea so far
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13:14 < oldlaptop> I'd be concerned mainly about the RAID and filesystem layers, which have their own advantages but are not exactly zfs
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13:15 < oldlaptop> the great thing about ffs is that it's almost 40 years old, but it does have the problem that it's almost 40 years old
13:15 < sibiria> openbsd's softraid has only disadvantages imo :p (except the crypto discipline in itself)
13:15 < sibiria> everything about its raid 0/1/5 is sub-par
13:15 < mischief> didn't truenas even dump freebsd for linux
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13:18 < jfsimon> that's what i found, never had single issue with ffs, while i had many fsck along the way
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13:19 < jfsimon> possibly only once or a couple times did i need work seriously on the file system, never lost a thing
13:20 < jfsimon> i mean i'm going offer small business, at worst raid 0
13:20 < rx> i think freebsd is still more reasonable for nas...  for my purposes at least
13:20 < rx> zfs makes everything easier
13:22 < jfsimon> if i had ressources, i would try run a dev for OpenBSD fs, though i believe there are good reasons for maintaining ffs/ffs2
13:22 < rx> im waiting for gefs for openbsd toorop 
13:22 < rx> sorry my irc client is autocompleteing nicks weirdly again
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13:24 < vortexx> mischief: they did
13:24 < jfsimon> plan9's?
13:24 < vortexx> jfsimon: well how are you going to fsck remotely?
13:25 < vortexx> are you planning on running resflash or something similar so OpenBSD runs in ram and then you mount the storage via /etc/rc.local ?
13:25 < jfsimon> good point, there will not be any needed, that's why i need a backup battery ups and auto shutdown on supply loss for a couple seconds.
13:25 < vortexx> (which is what I ended up doing on an APU2 on a different continent that I was running with raid1 on s-ata usb drives)
13:25 < jfsimon> Don't want have these issues
13:26 < vortexx> sure, but that issue can rear it's head if a drive goes bad etc
13:26 < jfsimon> at worst that's gonna be site visit
13:26 < pardis> I would avoid OpenBSD like the plague for a NAS
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13:27 < jfsimon> yep idea's have a monthly contract run and prevently do drive replacement, monitor drives & logs
13:27 < jfsimon> yet if that happens we'll be on for site works
13:27 < vortexx> anyone else managed to build nginx-1.28.2 from ports today? Patches won't apply cleanly. I'm ready to email ports@ about it, just wanted to see if someone succeeded
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13:34 < jfsimon> Didn't sry
13:35 < jfsimon> Actually not, just a standard install, i believe a separate drive for the os, and 2 drives for storage.
13:36 < vortexx> that would be the best way
13:36 < jfsimon> not going for fancy stuff yet like ramfs
13:36 < vortexx> ramfs is nice but upgrading every six months might be a problem, I haven't looked into that
13:36 < vortexx> plus package upgrades
13:37 < jfsimon> if i can avoid upgrades i'll do, unless there are serious issues,
13:37 < jfsimon> i calculated i can run a local business off from a user base of 50 as a very minimum, 
13:38 < vortexx> which protocols would the storage be shared over?
13:38 < jfsimon> checking that project in february, and trying stat it up
13:38 < jfsimon> i believe samba
13:39 < jfsimon> i don't see uch anything else practical, target are very samm business 1-10 ppl something like that,
13:40 < vortexx> Resflash images contain two main data partitions, one active and one inactive. During the upgrade process, the inactive partition is updated, tested, and set active for the next boot. A /cfg partition can be used to store modifications from the mfs filesystems (/etc and /var) and are overlaid at boot time. Small /mbr and /efi partitions are used to maintain the BIOS and UEFI boot code, respectively.
13:40 < jfsimon> Something i need fix is the permanent deletion, when you delete file from a nas drive, other thing is versionning to keep a r/o backup. need to find the package i used for that purpose long time ago, does file links and copy if the file's changed.
13:41 < vortexx> samba will work
13:42 < jfsimon> i'll include a drive utility that runs periodically, reads 100% sector of the drive. Apparently that helps refresh the drive embedded firmware, self heal, stuff like this
13:43  * oldlaptop reckons the sort of shop that wants nfs is probably also the sort of shop that's managing it themselves
13:43 < jfsimon> A simple raw read over the whole drive to help it figure out bad sectors.
13:43 < sibiria> drives figure that out themselves when they write to a sector
13:44 < sibiria> they map it out automatically
13:44 < jfsimon> indeed, i don't stand a chance where there's IT managing it, further they use stuff i don't like to onedrive often
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13:45 < vortexx> https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/chassis/compact%20mini-tower/721/sc721tq-350b2 I use an older version of this, 4x3.5" and 2x2.5" for a mini-itx mainboard
13:45 < vortexx> allows for one PCIe slot
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13:47 < sibiria> neat, very 90s industrial design on the case. looks like something SGI
13:47 < jfsimon> nice
13:47 < sibiria> minus the gray color
13:48 < oldlaptop> I'm sure they have purple spray paint down at the hardware store to fix that
13:49 < sibiria> Just Do It
13:49 < vortexx> or blue, since it's x32-64
13:49 < vortexx> yeah it's a very nice case
13:50 < vortexx> it's got the most storage I could find in that format, usually it's just 4x3.5"
13:50 < ssm_> often when I resume from suspend my tcp nfs mounts over wireguard to my vps hang. any ideas what to do to debug this? my wg mount is recieving and transmitting normally, but the share still hangs. nc -z ssmvps-wg-nfs nfs succeeds but the share still hangs
13:51 < ssm_> s/wg mount/wg interface/
13:51 < vortexx> minus is you can't get bigger than 5Tb in 2.5" spinning rust, you need SSDs for bigger and those are not cheap
13:51 < IcePic> ssm_: wonder if it would help if you do udp nfs over the tunnel?
13:51 < ssm_> sure, could try that
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13:52 < ssm_> trying to remount also hangs, usually that works :/
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14:01 < vortexx> ssm_: did you try running mountd on the VPS with -d ?
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14:02 < ssm_> no, though to do that I'd seemingly need to kill mountd which isn't supported by rcctl
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14:09 < vortexx> just kill it and rcctl start mountd 
14:10 < vortexx> mh LACIE Rugged RAID Shuttle is 2.5" external that's actually just a 2.5" drive and goes up to 8Tb, I could buy two of those and shuck them for my server (been wanting to go to 6x8Tb for quite a while)
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14:17 < jfsimon> too much choice
14:18 < jfsimon> farily expensive LaCie
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14:26 < vortexx> jfsimon: not much >5Tb 2.5"
14:26 < vortexx> and yeah it's expensive for what it is. The Samsung 2.5" SSD I have my eyes on has doubled in price of late for some reason, probably end of life
14:29 < jfsimon> didn't follow the price lately, i know ram has had issues
14:31 < lts> Manufacturers transform SSD manufacturing lines to RAM lines because of the insane profits -> less SSDs -> SSD prices go up
14:31 < jfsimon> are there plans for new filesystem on openbsd ? got that softupdates went off
14:31 < lts> Nope
14:32 < jfsimon> i don't like ssd, they are a shame on me, fast but hard failures, really made me some issues in the past
14:32 < martian67> lts: that isn't possible, they are entirely separate processes
14:32 < martian67> its more like "one part of the industry is insanely gouging people and getting away with it, we might as well too"
14:32 < martian67> esp considering they are mostly the same companies
14:33 < martian67> see also: spinning rust going up in price
14:34 < lts> martian67: "The fact that Samsung and SK Hynix are dismantling NAND production lines to install DRAM production lines will create a shortage of SSDs from the end of 2025 until the end of 2026." https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366635013/Chip-makers-warn-of-a-looming-shortage-in-DRAM-and-SSD
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14:42 < zbcm> we don't need more hardware. We need less software.
14:43 < sibiria> it's always price-gouging. manufacturers always hike prices when demand goes up, to create an exponential revenue boost
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14:43 < Bradipo> Then don't buy at those times.
14:43 < sibiria> i certainly won't
14:44 < sibiria> $400 for 16gb of ram, gtfo
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14:46 < polarian> sibiria: thats not how economics works lol
14:46 < TommyC> Watch the factories for their delivery routes and do an old school highway robbery.
14:46 < polarian> its not based on exponential revenue boost
14:46 < polarian> A higher demand for NAND, and semiconductors means a lower supply in silicon and rare earth metals, these then go up, therefore if the manufacturer didn't increase their prices they would have *LOWER* profits
14:46 < bagatur> hi, I'd like to run openbsd on an arm laptop that is not supported, so I want to try and run support it myself
14:47 < sibiria> polarian: we're coming from an abundance of supply
14:47 < bagatur> but I haven't worked with hardware (it's closed spec too), so I am not sure where to start
14:47 < sibiria> not a scenario where everyone has been operating right at the margin's limit
14:47 < polarian> sibiria: there is no abundance, every resource is scarce, just less so than in history.
14:47 < phy1729> Back to OpenBSD please
14:47 < sibiria> silicon wafers and copper has never been scarce...
14:48 < polarian> What we choose to do with resources to further our personal choices has a knock on effect to the markets.
14:48 < polarian> phy1729: sorry.
14:48 < jfsimon> running parallel install of FreeBSD & OpenBSD to get a sense, i never run freebsd before, afficionado openbsd
14:49 < bagatur> any tips regarding where I can start to support my hardware run openbsd is appreciated
14:49 < martian67> polarian: 60% of the surface of the earth is made of silicon i doubt we are running out any time soon
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14:50 < oldlaptop> bagatur: The first thing I'd want to look up is what SoC it has; if one of the arm ports happens to support it already that's at least a slightly good sign
14:51 < oldlaptop> ...past that, if you have to ask questions like this, I'm not sure you have any realistic next steps
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14:51 < oldlaptop> maybe if the hardware's interesting enough, some openbsd developer would be interested in a donation
14:52 < polarian> martian67: firstly phy1729 is a chanop and has asked for the subject to drop, secondly the extraction of resources requires resources, thus is fixed against the supply of the resources it requires to extract.
14:52 < bagatur> yes that's true, I am not knowledgeable with hardware, but I would like to be
14:52 < oldlaptop> A random proprietary arm laptop (some chromebook or something?) is unfortunately not likely to be a good introduction
14:53 < martian67> polarian: keep living your "free market" fantasy
14:53  * oldlaptop can confirm the factories to turn sand into N-nines Si are kind of a big industry all by themselves
14:54 < oldlaptop> they need lots of tanker trucks full of "fun" things
14:54 < martian67> the current price of ICs has very little to do with the price of silicon rising
14:54 < polarian> martian67: please follow the chanop and also dont throw insults when I never once talked about the free market, I simply talked about high school level economics.
14:54 < bagatur> maybe studying embedded programming would help with that? I will do the study, just new a bit of guidance
14:55 < oldlaptop> (not always comforting to be behind one of those on the highway, but such is the cost of things, I guess)
14:55 < sibiria> high school level economics should've noticed that the past 10-ish years have seen an explosive abundance in DRAM supply, sold for pennies
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14:56 < polarian> I will stop responding otherwise I will be moderated with you both as well.
14:56 < polarian> you want to discuss this, feel free to take it to PMs
14:57 < rnkn> vortexx: I did see in syslog.conf(5) the way to route logging levels, the problem I think is that my rc.d daemons are just sending stuff blindly to stdout/stderr
14:57 < oldlaptop> bagatur: I don't know specifically what ARM hardware you're talking about (it would be a good idea to tell us that). Unfortunately a lot of it is inconvenient for reasons you can't learn your way around with some pointers
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14:58 < oldlaptop> maybe the bootloader's locked down, maybe the only kernel they ever expected to run on it is their own customized outdated linux
14:58 < martian67> yes ARM devices are a huge pain to support for a lot of stupid reasons
14:59 < oldlaptop> "embedded programming" is a pretty big category :) (arguably more than one)
15:00 < oldlaptop> and trying to hack random proprietary arm boards is not really the first thing you'd learn how to do
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15:02 < oldlaptop> With that said, maybe if you were to send mail to the misc@ mailing list (which would need to be specific about the hardware), someone with that kind of specialized knowledge might be interested.
15:03 < oldlaptop> If you want to start out learning about this stuff, it's probably better to get your hands on... "friendlier" hardware to play with
15:04 < oldlaptop> (pine64 stuff, raspberrypi, a lot of those sorts of "open source" boards have relatively extensive documentation and community support around them, such that you'll have an easier time learning how the low-level details work)
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15:07 < bagatur> makes sense, I will start with easier boards and work my way up from there, thanks!
15:07 < cgnarne> device trees were a mistake. they should just stop reinventing the wheel and hang all the shit on a pci bus, make it discoverable
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15:08 < bagatur> I did want to get a pinebook but apparently they discontinued that line of product
15:08 < cgnarne> mischief: does linux now trigger mmio stuff in vmd?
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15:10 < sibiria> bagatur: openbsd on the pbp pro is not a great experience
15:10 < sibiria> it's in fact barely decent with linux
15:12 < Bradipo> polarian: You probably know this, but there's always #openbsd-social as opposed to PMs.
15:13 < polarian> Bradipo: that works too
15:13 < polarian> you are free to ping me there 
15:13 < polarian> been there since like forever
15:15 < zbcm> I'm guessing openbsd works flawlessly on an x220. I can get a refurbished one with 8GB ram, i5 and an 128GB SSD for $100..
15:15 < oldlaptop> It's probably *also* easier not to start with laptops (or phones, anything "portable"), that adds some extra complications
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15:15 < oldlaptop> even in things like the pinefoo that are trying to be friendly
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15:20 < polarian> zbcm: most old laptops work flawlessly yes
15:20 < polarian> I havent used it on a x220 so I cant say for definite 
15:20 < zbcm> for $100 I'll try
15:21 < polarian> zbcm: do bare in mind battery life will be bad
15:21 < polarian> but for the most part, it should work 
15:22 < cgnarne> x220 is fine
15:22 < zbcm> battery is swappble :)
15:23 < zbcm> /a/
15:23 < sibiria> but can you still find them?
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15:26 < cgnarne> yup 60€
15:26 < zbcm> I'm in SEA. There seems to be an endless supply of them
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15:28 < sibiria> would make for a lot happier experience with something a bit more modern like a T480
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15:32 < zbcm> For triple the price. I want a notebook too
15:34 < sibiria> t480 is surely a lot thinner and lighter than the old x220?
15:34 < zbcm> yes, I suppose so
15:34 < sibiria> only about 1.5 inches larger footprint. not too bad
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15:35 < sibiria> but i understand the appeal of 12-12.5" laptpos
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15:47 < oldlaptop> T480 has an inferior keyboard (especially the layout)
15:48 < zbcm> x61 it is. 
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15:56 < jfsimon> Is freebsd recommended for a nas only because of raid and zfs ?
15:58 < oldlaptop> zfs would be the big one
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15:59 < jfsimon> k
15:59 < jfsimon> hope openbsd had something similar
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16:25 < oldlaptop> It really doesn't.
16:26 < oldlaptop> (There's been off-and-on interest in dragonfly's HAMMER2 - that's never gotten all that close to actually shipping in the tree.)
16:27 < martian67> linux is ZFS's primary target these days anyways, freebsd is falling pretty badly behind 
16:31 < oldlaptop> once upon a time zfs was a major motivation to... run the debian userland on freebsd's kernel
16:31 < oldlaptop> (not much left of that idea)
16:44 < sibiria> zfs is still a separate kernel module on debian 13, needing recompiling each time you update the kernel - and every so often there are some hiccups and "withheld updates" part of that hamfisted procedure
16:45 < sibiria> maybe it'll finally be a first-class citizen in debian 14
16:48 < systemdsucks> I think that's not possible with zfs still being out of the kernel tree
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16:57 < sibiria> a couple of years to go until deb 14, but it doesn't have to be in the tree for a distribution to use kmod instead of dkms like e.g. Rocky linux does
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17:17 < Bradipo> inmail
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21:50 < mischief> cgnarne_: it seems to trigger it exactly once. /shrug
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21:58 < lusciouslover> whats the difference between apm -S and apm -z ('standby' vs 'suspend')?
21:58 < lusciouslover> i cant actually tell the difference between these two when using them
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22:10 < cgnarne> wiki says for apm suspend is a deeper standby. saves more energy but takes longer to wake up. no idea how relevant this is with acpi or how it maps to its power states
22:11 < mischief> probably -z = acpi S4 and -S = acpi S3/S0ix
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22:13 < cgnarne> yeah, makes sense
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22:18 < dg> yes, the support for S0ix isn't there yet, although there's a hidden machdep.lidaction = -1 for testing... https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/20bdc91c785fb949f0d36715e4f9c8ac93a86082
22:18 < dg> the mapping is sys/dev/acpi/acpi_x86.c‎
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 07 00:00:12 2026