--- Log opened Thu Feb 12 00:00:19 2026
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00:36 < mischief> is there a way to make ksh yank ^Y act like bash ^Y after ^U etc?
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00:39 < thrig> ksh has a lot fewer lines of code...
00:39 < ssm_> dunno I use vi mode
00:40 < mischief> sure, but pressing ^U kills, but i'm not sure what is suppoed to yank.. and i'd like to make it ^Y
00:40 < mischief> i also use vi mode :)
00:40 < ssm_> should just yank whatever it deletes
00:41 < ssm_> which is how both emacs and vi work
00:41 < mischief> if i press ^U ^Y it just prints ^Y
00:42 < dg> ksh key bindings don't work in vi mode, you can't change them like in bash
00:42 < thrig> stty has kill (^U usually these days) and not yank
00:42 < ssm_> mischief: works correctly for me :/
00:42 < dg> set -o emacs and it'll work
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00:42 < ssm_> you sure emacs mode is enabled? check set
00:44 < mischief> in set -o emacs          off vi             on
00:44 < mischief> but, i use set -o vi in bash as well. maybe it overlaps the bindings and ksh does not.
00:44 < mischief> perhaps i should learn the vi bindings in ksh better
00:45 < Bradipo> I abandoned -o emacs many years ago.
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00:46 < Bradipo> Though, I still am fond of using ^U, and ^K in non-terminal interfaces.
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00:47 < mischief> ^U is certainly wired into my brain, and i'm always salty when some program's input doesn't allow it
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00:51 < thrig> gemini://thrig.me/tmp/mistakes.png
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08:18 < rnkn> can anything in the base system replicate curl -X POST?
08:18 < IcePic> possibly some perl-stuff?
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08:20 < IcePic> man HTTP::Tiny <- that one?
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08:24 < rnkn> eh, thanks, I'll stick with curl
08:32 < IcePic> rnkn: that is fine, I was just not sure if you deemed "in base" to be most important or "being like curl"
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08:51 < rhylx> Hi everyone. I have a stupid question concerning permissions of ssl private keys. I have an openbsd server running httpd and ejabberd. I also have a private ssl key for my domain name. It has been generated by root and has permission 400. This does not seem to be a problem for httpd, but apparently it is for ejabberd which is complaining that it
08:51 < rhylx> cannot read the key. Have you encountered this issue and if so what have you done? According to you, what are the best practices?
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08:53 < dlg> i'm sure there's lots of ways to solve it
08:54 < dlg> the last time i had that problem, i copied (with install(1)) the key into a place that the thing using it could get to it
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09:28 < rhylx> I see. I could also give access to the _ejabberd user. But I do not quite understand why ejabberd needs that and httpd does not?
09:29 < IcePic> httpd starts as root, reads the key and then drops privs to www
09:30 < IcePic> if ejabberd isn't doing the same OR, if it deliberately reads the key late for hitless reloads of the key as the low-priv user then it might need _ejabberd be allowed to read (a copy of) the key
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09:31 < IcePic> key usually doesn't change very often (like the cert might), but httpds design makes it not possible to protect the key to root-only and at the same time being able to send HUP or so to httpd so it can re-read a new key if needed
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09:32 < IcePic> one could potentially leave a uid0 process only for that, but it would also make it possible to trick it in various ways
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09:50 < rhylx> why a copy of the key, if the content is the same. It does not really matter, isn't it?
09:51 < rhylx> I see. Yeah. I have to understand why ejabberd is not doing the same thing as httpd
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16:56 < rkta> Can read somewhere about the meaning of dev names like /dev/sd2c? c seems to be something special. Also wondering when to use rsd vs sd.
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16:57 < sibiria> c is a legacy label meaning "the entire disk"
16:57 < sibiria> r is "raw" device
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16:59 < sibiria> (that's in contrast to the non-raw device node which is a block device)
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17:00 < oldlaptop> one will occasionally see the obvious antonym "cooked"
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17:01 < oldlaptop> the "c" is, specifically, the disklabel(5) partition; by convention partition c covers the entire disk (and, on the boot disk, partition a is / and partition b is swap)
17:02 < rkta> Can read this up somewhere which is not the code?
17:02 < rkta> Also, how do I know when to use the raw device and when the block device?
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17:02 < oldlaptop> MBR partitions (including in fictitious disklabels the kernel invents for things like removable disks without real disklabel(5) partition tables) conventionally start at i, so commonly a USB stick or something would end up as "sd1i" or so
17:03 < oldlaptop> disklabel(5) is a reference to a manual page (which is not code) in which you could read about some of this stuff
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17:04 < thrig> but there is no I in USB
17:04 < oldlaptop> the I in USB stands for disklabel?
17:05 < rkta> I try to remember the i in USB. Fiddling with an SD card lead me to these questions.
17:05 < sibiria> a better description is that non-openbsd partitions will start at i
17:05  * oldlaptop doesn't know offhand whether GPT (does it support any other wacky systems? mac-fdisk?) starts at the same letter
17:06 < sibiria> e.g. fat32-formated ESP and similar
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17:08 < oldlaptop> tangentially: when was the last time someone created a disklabel(5) for a "disk pack"?
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17:09 < oldlaptop> presumably vax was the last arch to which one could connect a "disk pack"
17:09 < oldlaptop> (or does goofy stuff like iomega JAZ count?)
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17:14 < lts> rkta: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html
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17:21 < rkta> lts: thanks
17:22 < rkta> still a bit confusing, but this might come from years of linux usage :)
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18:42 < rIMpossible> mischief: I saw your patch on tech@ . Is it related to our conversation yesterday?
18:42 < rIMpossible> I can see /usr/libexec/reorder_kernel running as one of the final tasks in /etc/rc.
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18:44 < rIMpossible> Could I remove the '&' and place syspatch there? So it would definitively run AFTER all kernel relinking is done?
18:45 < rIMpossible> ... with the disadvantage of longer loading times ...
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18:46 < rIMpossible> The startup is still a complex beast
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18:46 < thrig> echo blah ; ( sleep 999 & wait ; echo other stuff ) & echo blah
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18:51 < vortexx> oldlaptop: yes GPT disklabels behave the same, non-FFS partitions start at i
18:53 < oldlaptop> (what stops me from putting ffs on a random MBR/GPT partition? besides sanity?)
18:54 < oldlaptop> or for that matter ext2fs on some random normal disklabel partition
18:55 < oldlaptop> you know, maybe /usr/local should be ext2, seeing as how it feels all foreign and linuxy
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19:02 < vortexx> GPT you need to keep i free for the ESP/EFI partition
19:02 < vortexx> after it's up to the user if they're using dualbooting or what not
19:03 < vortexx> oldlaptop: you can make /usr/local ext2fs but it'll have to start after i
19:03 < vortexx> otherwise fsck will panic on boot with a non-FFS partition
19:03 < oldlaptop> Aaaaaah.
19:03 < oldlaptop> I guess I'll just need to fork /etc/rc then.
19:03 < vortexx> (as I (re)discovered making my old vaio dualboot with linux + openbsd
19:04 < vortexx> (with an ext2fs exchange partition)
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19:19 < vortexx> plus I doubt ext2fs can use knobs like wxallowed and all that
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22:02 < XZDX> hey OBSD has PPC-32 support still right?
22:03 < XZDX> Does stuff like Signal or Telegram have a solution?  Is it all terminal?
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22:11 < mischief> XZDX: is this what you are looking for https://www.openbsd.org/macppc.html
22:11 < thrig> things that need llvm or rust might be tricky to compile?
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22:14 < uzuri> i cant for the love of it create a MSDOS usb stick
22:15 < uzuri> creating a mbr slice works fine, creating a disklabel works fine, but when creating the filesystem, the partition deletes itself and the newfs command exits with success
22:16 < uzuri> tried gpt, tried fat 16 instead of 32, tried label 'a' instead if 'i'
22:16 < uzuri> always the same
22:17 < uzuri> my exact command: newfs_msdos -F 32 sd2i
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22:24 < uzuri> creating a ffs2 fs on the same stick works flawless
22:24 < uzuri> also tried the same on a different stick and got the same issue, must be on my end
22:24 < XZDX> mischief: ye that
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22:27 < Bradipo> I think there's a bug with newfs_msdos... it seems to write more than it should.
22:27 < uzuri> Bradipo: great..
22:27 < Bradipo> Well, that's my observation.
22:27 < Bradipo> I'm asking for confirmation.
22:28 < Bradipo> What I've noticed is that even though I tell it to format sd2i, it seems to overwrite more than just the i partition.
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22:28 < Bradipo> But it's also possible that I misunderstand.
22:29 < Bradipo> Are you saying that you format the MBR with fdisk, setup a partition for MSDOS and then when you try to format with newfs_msdos that it blows away the partitioning?
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22:29 < uzuri> yup
22:29 < uzuri> i only created one partition and after that its gone
22:29 < Bradipo> Yeah, I've noticed that too.
22:30 < Bradipo> I'm not sure, but to me it seems like a bug.
22:30 < uzuri> its a 8GB stick, those are the params by newfs:
22:30 < uzuri> /dev/rsd2i: 7865304 sectors in 983163 FAT32 clusters (4096 bytes/cluster)
22:30 < uzuri> bps=512 spc=8 res=32 nft=2 mid=0xf8 spt=63 hds=255 hid=64 bsec=7880703 bspf=7681 rdcl=2 infs=1 bkbs=2
22:30 < uzuri> ima try to create more partitions and see if it nukes all of them
22:31 < Bradipo> Ok.
22:35 < uzuri> huh, that actually worked
22:35 < uzuri> i created 4 evenly spaced labels and now everything stayed intact and the fat filesystem works fine
22:36 < uzuri> wrote data to it, remounted 2 times, no issues so far
22:36 < uzuri> i guess it doesnt like to use the entire disk
22:37 < humm> did you write a physical disklabel?
22:38 < humm> not sure rn where it would be stored, but I could imagine it being in your partition and then being overwritten by newfs
22:38 < uzuri> humm: with physical you mean written to disk and not only stored in ram?
22:39 < humm> yes
22:39 < uzuri> i did, with the interactive editor (-E)
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22:41 < uzuri> i tried again, this time i created a ~5mb empty partiton at the start of the drive and then created the msdos partition after it, but not till the end, i also left ~50mb of empty space 
22:41 < uzuri> and it worked again
22:42 < uzuri> not sure how to debug this further, as theres no verbose or similar flag on newfs_msdos
22:42 < uzuri> worth a bugreport?
22:43 < humm> you could just not write a disklabel
22:44 < uzuri> humm: how would i specify the mbr partition? /dev/rsd2A6 or something?
22:45 < humm> as disklabel(5) and disklabel(8) tell you, the kernel creates an in-core disklabel from mbr/gpt for you if there’s none on disk
22:46 < humm> so, still something like /dev/rsd2i
22:47 < humm> (the man pages should make it more clear where an on-disk disklabel is actually stored in which situation)
22:48 < uzuri> i miss ext4 :/
22:49 < humm> what about it?
22:49 < humm> what about it do you miss, compared to ffs2?
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22:51 < uzuri> tried to create the FS now on both blank gpt and mbr, same result:
22:51 < uzuri> newfs_msdos: /dev/rsd2i: Device not configured
22:51 < uzuri> and i miss the simplicity and stability
22:51 < uzuri> openbsd does so many things right
22:51 < uzuri> filesystems are sadly not one of them in my opinion
22:52 < Bradipo> FFS is a "filesystem".  I think it does that just fine.
22:52 < humm> uzuri: try running disklabel -c beforehand
22:53 < humm> as in, (1) partition using fdisk, (2) update in-core disklabel, (3) use partition device nodes
22:54 < humm> and yes: I dislike how OpenBSD handles partition tables, but that has little to do with the file systems
22:55 < uzuri> Bradipo: corrupting files when my laptop is running out of battery is not something i like about it
22:56 < uzuri> humm: ill try that
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22:59 < humm> “corrupt files” how? it may not have written all updates, but the file system shouldn’t be corrupted
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23:12 < thrig> lots of filesystems don't like having the power yanked out from under them
23:13 < humm> but today they usually stay intact
23:13 < sibiria> though ext3 and 4 handle it pretty gracefully and quickly because of its journaling
23:14 < sibiria> i've never had ffs go corrupt on me. but it's somewhat unnerving seeing fsck grind through, and ask questions
23:14 < mcat> never happened to me either, atleast not yet
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23:46 < fcbsd> touch would I've never lost info on ffs even when power's been pulled on a system
23:46 < fcbsd> /would/wood/
23:47 < fcbsd> and acpi is good on laptops when battery gets low
23:48 < fcbsd> /acpi/apmd/
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 13 00:00:21 2026