--- Log opened Sat Feb 21 00:00:32 2026
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11:35 < unpx> Of OpenBSD versions, which one is better? Odd numbers or even numbers?
11:39 < quinq> This metric changes every other version
11:40 < Foxy_> unpx: the latest version (current stable version = 7.8)
11:41 < unpx> Foxy_: I plan to reboot a machine as little as possible. Maybe the problem isn't the fact that I need to reboot twice a year, but the fact that after an upgrade there is some grace time or something that I need to wait for patches and THAT annoys me
11:44 < quinq> unpx, really there is no semantics between release number parity
11:44 < quinq> It's just the next version
11:45 < unpx> Ok
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11:50 < sibiria> what you do want to watch out for, however, are the odd and even major version numbers
11:50 < sibiria> odds are good, even are bad. we've had a good decade now but coming up on a decade of ill and woe
11:50 < sibiria> best prepare
11:51 < sibiria> doctor's recommendation: install 7.9 and never, ever reboot
11:51 < unpx> sibiria: maybe I committed the XY crime. Goal: reboot as little as possible
11:51 < unpx> sibiria: how about patches?
11:51 < quinq> patches are bad
11:51 < quinq> They corrupt the immaculate release
11:51 < unpx> So you prefer -release over -stable?
11:51 < sibiria> the lord made -release perfect. why would man's interference be good?
11:56 < sibiria> unpx: some syspatches will want you to reboot, so...
12:01 < mischief> perhaps if you never want to reboot you should run NonStop OS
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12:14 < unpx> I guess the solution is do not upgrade at release
12:15 < sibiria> they don't force you to reboot. they just want you to
12:19 < quinq> unpx, syspatches are there for a reason, they correct a problem that developers deems important enough to modify the release
12:19 < quinq> It's up to you to apply them, you can read what it's about and see if it affects your computer
12:20 < quinq> Some patches affect the user space, which don't need a whole system reboot, but aimply a potential restart of the affected service, and sometimes nothing
12:21 < quinq> Some others affect the kernel and it's needed to reload the kernel (reboot) for them to apply, but you don't have to reboot if you don't want to
12:21 < quinq> And this isn't specific to OpenBSD, that's software in general
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13:25 < cgnarne> unpx: what's your reasoning for rebooting as little as possible?
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13:31 < oldlaptop> I suppose one could try to argue mechanical wear and tear (shouldn't be an issue for warm boots)
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13:36 < cgnarne> if you cold boot your server a 100 times per day, sure
13:37 < sibiria> good thing keyboards are replacable
13:38 < oldlaptop> cgnarne: A spinning hard disk /could/ start to have trouble relatively early, at least on paper
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13:39 < sibiria> they don't stop spinning at reboot, nor do they park their heads
13:39 < oldlaptop> hence "shouldn't be an issue for warm boots"
13:39 < sibiria> and, still, you'd need to do that 20 times a day to incur any wear
13:40 < sibiria> constant parking when aggressive power saving procotols are effective is "deadlier"
13:40 < oldlaptop> Other than laptop drives (which really do expect to spin up and down 20 times a day, more or less), they tend to be rated for surprisingly few load cycles on paper
13:40 < sibiria> i have some 2.5" drives where SMART reports *thousands* of start/stop cycles
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13:40 < pe> During the time the computer is off you can't use it. And you need to restore all state you've had there. I almost never turn off my computers unless I have to because it's a total waste of time.
13:40 < sibiria> (they all work fine still)
13:41 < oldlaptop> such that you'd burn through it within a year or three powering off the desktop every evening (or so)
13:41 < cgnarne> pe: do you sleep?
13:41 < sibiria> do you pay the power bill at home?
13:41 < pe> The computers can suspend themselves just fine.
13:42 < sibiria> my server/gateway runs 24/7 but, man, i can't imagine having my "go-to" computer running around the clock for no good reason
13:42 < cgnarne> is what you are doing so important that you can't afford to reboot after a Patch once in a while?
13:42 < oldlaptop> (the exception of laptop drives being designed to spin down all the time is pretty much of historical interest only these days, I suppose)
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13:42 < pe> I used to configure the laptop drives so that they don't spin down, because they were really noisy doing that. It also lags.
13:44 < pe> Also it depends on what kind of computer you have. Some don't eat much electricity running nonstop at all.
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13:45  * pe looks at his 7950X3D/4090 PC, frowning
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13:45 < oldlaptop> this time of year around here it's a question of whether the gas gets burned in my basement or across town
13:46 < oldlaptop> (it's a little cheaper to burn it in my basement)
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13:51 < mischief> i leave my computer on all the time xD
13:51 < mischief> up 4 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes
13:52 < mischief> it would be longer but there was a power outage..
13:52 < pe> I wish I had a UPS that could keep the PC alive.
13:53 < cgnarne> my server has 57 days of uptime. it still gets the old sysupdate -s every few weeks
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13:54 < mischief> pe: there's the tesla powerwall if you have a few grand to drop
13:54 < pe> lol
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14:25 < unpx> cgnarne: downtime
14:27 < unpx> mischief: UPS and sensorsd to shutdown when lowpower
14:27 < cgnarne> sysupdate takes like 10 minutes
14:31 < mischief> i am pretty sure i asked here about recommendations for UPSs and got no solid answer
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14:55 < oldlaptop> AIUI UPSes/SPSes are either hideously expensive or utter junk
14:56 < oldlaptop> (or possibly both)
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15:31 < vortexx> mischief: yes I was surprised about that too
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15:31 < vortexx> welcome to the channel pe 
15:32 < pe> Hi, thank you. I've sadly displaced OpenBSD in my life with Linux because of performance, but it's always been a nice system to work with, and the best BSD.
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15:52 < vortexx> yes OpenBSD doesn't always have the desired performance but it keeps getting better at it
15:53 < vortexx> every really improves network perf, for ex
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17:51 < vortexx> s/really/release
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18:49 < unpx> re: ai spam. What is the equivalent of anubis? https://anubis.techaro.lol/docs/category/environments
18:51 < unpx> Oh my bad. https://openports.pl/path/www/anubis I guess I can wire it on relayd
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19:09 < uzuri> unpx: i wouldnt recommend anubis
19:10 < unpx> uzuri: what do you recommend?
19:11 < unpx> Maybe pf rules on connections?
19:11 < uzuri> even if million of websites deployed anubis, it wouldnt even costs data centers a single cent per month more to curl all those million sites
19:11 < uzuri> and it only worsens the experience of users with weaker hardware
19:11 < uzuri> https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/anubis.html
19:11 < uzuri> unpx: yes, just aggressive PF
19:12 < uzuri> there has been a good discussion on the mailing list regarding this topic, just search for 'CVS web theannoyingsite' and it should pop up
19:19 < unpx> uzuri: can't this just be yet another tutorial on how to set aggressive pf rules? Like, I don't know the right ratio for this thing
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19:19 < uzuri> it really depends
19:20 < uzuri> trial and error
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19:39 < oldlaptop> [2:11:05 pm] <uzuri> even if million of websites deployed anubis, it wouldnt even costs data centers a single cent per month more to curl all those million sites
19:39 < oldlaptop> At least some of the bad actors are botnets.
19:41 < oldlaptop> The most you can impose on them is a somewhat lower limit on the requests per unit time each botnet node can handle for them - arguably that still sorta-kinda has monetary value, in that they're getting less use out of the cycles they're stealing
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19:43 < oldlaptop> but clearly we don't let that stop us from yet another "make the client do all the work"
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19:50 < oldlaptop> Fossil (in this context the cvsweb equivalent for sqlite and tcl) has had an "anonymous login" (basically a form of captcha) for donkey's years, going back well before at least the current wave of AI crawlers. That more or less works (they've had *some* fun of late, mostly around what hadn't been behind the login-wall), and doesn't impose "you must run my javascript to deliberately waste a bunch of CPU cycles for my convenience" on visitors
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20:10 < mischief> could use authpf
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20:19 < vortexx> seeing some of the strings these bots send to try and install rubbish, I was half wondering if just doing 'echo "rm -rf /" >/var/www/htdocs/env.php' or something might be a counter measure (from my very limited perspective on dealing with stuff scanning websites, this isn't my specific skillset)
20:20 < calciume> Its like the folks that took AI crawlers offline by sending it a fork bomb lol
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20:20 < uzuri> lmao
20:21 < uzuri> oldlaptop: botnets are nothing new and only make up less than half the rent
20:21 < calciume> Also with Anubis, the project openly states that ita meant to be a last resort and basically that its a temporary solution until someone thinks of something better
20:22 < mischief> recent requests to my network https://p.offblast.org/pyggvdnd
20:22 < mischief> i don't even have php installed anywhere
20:22 < oldlaptop> Seems likely to be one of those permanent temporary solutions.
20:22 < uzuri> yeaa....
20:22 < calciume> Yeahhh
20:23 < calciume> We're slowly seeing other solutions coming out
20:23 < oldlaptop> I know I've yammered about this before, but I semi-recommend running ssh-in-tls on port 443 or something.
20:23 < oldlaptop> "Unknown protocol version GET /wp-admin.php" is absolutely hilarious to see in ssh logs.
20:23 < uzuri> hahahah
20:23 < uzuri> i do love the idea of ssh 'websites'
20:23 < uzuri> like terminal.shop
20:24 < uzuri> arguably the most secure way of ordering something online
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20:24 < luna> uzuri: order your fancy coffee via ssh :p
20:24 < uzuri> depends on the backend too ofc, but still
20:24 < calciume> Those AI crawlers are designed to circumvent basically every solution to bots so bad solutions to the new problem are inevitable
20:24 < oldlaptop> (I did this to fool a application-layer firewall (run by the ISP on a residential connection, no less, as far as I could tell) that was killing ssh handshakes.)
20:24 < mischief> my script i made to add anyone sending invalid users in ssh to a pf table has been working very well
20:25 < calciume> uzuri this is beautiful
20:25 < uzuri> luna: heh..
20:26 < uzuri> i wish
20:26 < uzuri> sadly i live overseas
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20:26 < uzuri> calciume: ikr
20:26 < uwharrie> I've been doing something similar to blocking invalid ssh users but extended to block entire ASNs when I get multiple hits from them
20:26 < luna> uzuri: i don't remember what countries they accept, only seen Primeagens ads about it
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20:27 < sibiria> i don't block anything. i only move the sshd to some off-port and 99.5% of the noise goes away
20:27 < oldlaptop> uwharrie: Not very useful if what's grinding down your VCS browser is a botnet with all the nodes behind residential connections.
20:27 < luna> i only have ssh online via Tailscale :p
20:28 < oldlaptop> (should work just fine for ssh, though...)
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20:28 < oldlaptop> for a lot of applications it should technically work to *whitelist* a relative handful of ASNs
20:28 < uwharrie> I include httpd's logs as well
20:29 < mischief> sibiria: i did that for a while, then my work's ""security"" team flagged my connection back to my house as "suspicious"
20:29 < oldlaptop> e.g. if you know you are the only one who ssh-s into you@yourbox, and you always do that from uwharriestan, maybe that can be the only country that's allowed in
20:30 < uzuri> luna: basically US-only :(
20:30 < luna> uzuri: ah also don't work for me in Sweden then
20:30 < uzuri> wow you type fast
20:31 < luna> perk of being a nerd :p
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20:33 < oldlaptop> (of course this is a perfect way to leave on your international vacation and then find out you forgot to add San Seriffe to the whitelist)
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20:45 < vortexx> mischief: I've been doing that for years, to the point that the table overflowed on pf startup
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21:09 < mischief> oh.. i garbage collect my table in cron.
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21:58 < hmj6502> looking to buy a pcie wifi card, and im potentially gonna run openbsd on this pc; at the very least i would like to have the option to when i decide to. what's the best wifi card that's compatible with openbsd?
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22:08 < uwharrie> "best" is pretty subjective, but have a look through these: https://man.openbsd.org/?query=802.11&apropos=1&sec=0&arch=default&manpath=OpenBSD-current Mostly see people picking one of the ath* or iw*
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22:16 < hmj6502> uwharrie: subjective, but im asking for a subjective consensus :p
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22:19 < hmj6502> also looking at the man pages, i kind of have no idea what to make of it... im not that great with hardware things :(
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22:21 < uwharrie> The pages are going to list the chipsets used on the device instead of any manufacturer/model info as manufacturers like to use different chips even with the same model
22:22 -!- singlestep [~singleste@user/singlestep] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:24 < hmj6502> is there a good resource for cross referencing chipsets with manufacturer models?
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22:25 < uzuri> the chipset should be included in the model description
22:25 < uzuri> and you might also consider if your plan is to ever use the machine as an access point too
22:26 < uzuri> because not many chipsets support that under openbsd
22:26 < hmj6502> that's easy enough when im looking at a model already... but not vice versa
22:26 < oldlaptop> (not many support being an AP at all, to my understanding)
22:26 < hmj6502> re access point; defo not, this pc is wayyyy overpowered and power hungry to be a router xD
22:26 < uzuri> also the man pages often have a remark or two about the reliability or peformance of its features
22:26 < oldlaptop> in general openbsd as an access point is not advisable
22:27 < hmj6502> why not?
22:27 < hmj6502> performance aside
22:27 < hmj6502> which i reckon is the biggest issue
22:27 < uzuri> bc 802.11 sucks
22:27 < oldlaptop> Well, that's pretty much *the* issue.
22:27 < uzuri> wifi is messy in generall
22:27 < hmj6502> i honestly know NOTHING about wifi standards
22:28 < hmj6502> my laptop has wifi, and it works...
22:28 < hmj6502> and that's about the extent of my knowledge xD
22:29 < oldlaptop> If very poor performance (maybe better in a quiet environment?) is "fine", *and* you can get your hands on supported hardware, then it's otherwise okay - certainly configuration is far and away easier to manage than linux.
22:29 < uzuri> i would get a pcie adapter card where you can just install a m.2 wifi card instead of a direct soldered on wifi chip
22:29 < oldlaptop> (mine does not have a very quiet environment to work with, which skews things - there's also a compounding factor where the openbsd AP is too slow, openbsd clients are too slow, and together they're too too slow)
22:30 < uzuri> even better would be to use the m.2 slot itself if you have it
22:30 < hmj6502> uzuri: how come?
22:30 < uzuri> becasue thats how most wifi chips are produced and sold
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22:31 < hmj6502> wdym?
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22:31 < oldlaptop> Certainly that's what you'll see in a lot of prebuilt desktops sold with wi-fi "built in" - there'll be an M.2 card in there one way or another
22:31 < uzuri> m.2 wifi cards are a lot more common than pcie wifi cards
22:31 < hmj6502> ohh
22:32 < hmj6502> oki
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22:32 < oldlaptop> (M.2 wi-fi cards *are* PCIe devices, of course.)
22:32 < uzuri> -_-
22:32 < uzuri> yes mom
22:32 < hmj6502> is m.2 just miniature pcie?
22:33 < uzuri> pretty much
22:33 < oldlaptop> The latest such thing, more or less.
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22:33 < hmj6502> alr then
22:33 < uzuri> but first check if you have the necessary slot in your motherboard
22:33 < uzuri> and there are different m.2 formfactors
22:34 < oldlaptop> (There used to be "mini-PCIe", and before that a "mini-PCI" (not PCIe, naturally). mSATA is an abuse of the mini-PCIe connector to carry SATA; M.2 is specified from the ground up to carry PCIe, SATA, or USB...)
22:34 < hmj6502> pc building is so confusing O_o
22:34 < hmj6502> i consider myself pretty techy but i've only dealt with laptops/handhelds till now
22:34 < uzuri> ugh laptops are a lot more painul to work with than desktop towers or servers
22:34 < oldlaptop> Back to the original question - it's probably not worth getting any sort of high-end wi-fi interface, not if OpenBSD is the primary intended application.
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22:35 < hmj6502> oldlaptop: what's up with the "e" in PCIe anyhow?
22:35 < oldlaptop> (OpenBSD won't take advantage of it.)
22:35 < hmj6502> uzuri: wdymmmm
22:35 < hmj6502> laptops are so ez
22:35 < hmj6502> old(ish) laptops at least
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22:35 < oldlaptop> hmj6502: "PCI Express" is the expansion. (Why it's little you'd need to ask the marketroids.)
22:35 < hmj6502> and ig prebuilt towers like optiplex are ez since everthing is done for you
22:36 < hmj6502> oldlaptop: even if openbsd won't take advantage of it, i still want to buy the best thing that openbsd CAN take advantage of because i'll primarily be running linux on this... and might have openbsd on a second drive just because it's cute :p
22:36 < uzuri> laptops suck because they are full of compromises and its not easy to expand/replace hardware
22:36 < hmj6502> i prefer openbsd so much more but performance + wine stuff sorta takes priority for primary devices :(
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22:37 < hmj6502> uzuri: thinkpads pre t430 with replaceable cpus O_O
22:37 < uzuri> 'pre'
22:37 < uzuri> and good luck with gpu
22:37 < uzuri> thats what i hate about laptops
22:37 < hmj6502> well
22:37 < oldlaptop> Then perhaps you should be shopping for the "best" wi-fi interface for linux that is supported. (Assuming you can *find* the chipset, it'll generally be in a section-4 manual page's synopsis if it's supported.)
22:37 < hmj6502> laptops aren't really meant for high workloads
22:37 < uzuri> exactly the opposite of modular
22:38 < hmj6502> so that's kinda the point
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22:38 < hmj6502> i like cute little devices
22:38 < hmj6502> but i also recognise if i want real power i need a pc... hence im building one
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22:38 < hmj6502> oldlaptop: just cause it's supported on linux doesn't mean it's supported on openbsd tho...??
22:38 < hmj6502> i dont mind if it's WORSE on openbsd, i just want it to be compatible
22:39 < uzuri> uhh yes eaxctly
22:39 < hmj6502> cause idk if wifi is like backwards compatible or whatever
22:39 < oldlaptop> Of course not. Hence "it'll generally be in a section-4 manual page's synopsis if it's supported".
22:39 < uzuri> just read the man pages
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22:39 < oldlaptop> Wi-fi is highly backwards-compatible, generally speaking, but that's not really relevant here.
22:40 < hmj6502> i mean i CAN do that but im lost enough looking at wifi cards as is, so looking at openbsd support makes me MORE lost. thanks for the tips tho
22:40 < oldlaptop> (in the sense that an AP from circa 2000 and a client made today will probably be able to talk to each other, and (a bit less likely) vice versa)
22:41 < hmj6502> i was asking in the sense that from what i understand openbsd is a couple generations behind on wifi standards? so would a wifi card for the newer standard still work on it?
22:42 < uzuri> maybe
22:42 < uzuri> its all documented
22:42 < uzuri> in the man pages
22:42 < hmj6502> okiii
22:42 < uzuri> but yeah openbsd is behind
22:43 < vortexx> mischief: well I share pf bad hosts between three hosts, it builds up. I found out the hard way how to increase the limits, but it's true that dropping hosts for more than a year is probably overkill
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22:45 < hmj6502> okay, easier than i expected: i was previously aware that intel is well supported on linux. look for wifi cards... AX210 seems to be solid (wifi 6 and all)... look at man pages and bam, iwx supports AX210. yippeee ^-^
22:46 < oldlaptop> As a practical example, suppose you've stumbled on this piece of junk. (Not really recommended.) https://www.newegg.com/netis-wf2113-pci-express/p/N82E16833389005 Possibly you've found a better image than this particular store seems to have and managed to read the numbers on the chip (although the giant crab is already a distinct sign), or possibly you see reviews mentioning RTL8192CE.
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22:46 < oldlaptop> (unfortunately it can be tricky to find that very important information)
22:47 < vortexx> hmj6502: my suggestion on finding good wifi is mostly check whatever your shopping with https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/dmesgd?do=index&fts=openbsd and see what's latest in there. If the wifi chip is in the dmesg it's usually going to work
22:47 < oldlaptop> You'd do an apropos(1) query for that model number. man.cgi will helpfully dump you on the one (correct) match: https://man.openbsd.org/man4/rtwn.4
22:48 < vortexx> and yes AX210 works
22:48 < oldlaptop> Well, it could be "in the dmesg" and not work. That will be obvious because of the "not configured" at the end of the line.
22:48 < vortexx> it's old but it works
22:48 < vortexx> old as in 5 years old
22:48 < hmj6502> well my wifi SUCKS as is
22:49 < vortexx> oldlaptop:well that yeah
22:49 < hmj6502> i get 10MB/s if im RIGHT next to it
22:49 < hmj6502> and this pc is about as it can be from the router ToT
22:49 < hmj6502> i was initially looking to use powerline but that shit was more expensive than i thought
22:49 < hmj6502> so fuck it, we're going with wifi
22:49 < vortexx> hmj6502: wifi on OpenBSD sucks in general
22:49 < vortexx> you'll get 11g perf if you're lucky
22:49 < oldlaptop> (the thing I linked definitely SUCKS. But it's supported and will kinda work for a while. (Mine interrupt-storms the machine it's plugged into now. Maybe there's a reason the good ones all have shields over the chips.))
22:49 < hmj6502> nono, my wifi sucks REGARDLESS of os
22:49 < vortexx> maybe 11n
22:49 < vortexx> but rare
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22:50 < hmj6502> i used openbsd on my laptop for a while, and i didn't even notice it was worse
22:50 < hmj6502> because my wifi is already bad enough
22:50 < vortexx> laptop model?
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22:50 < hmj6502> thinkpad t480
22:50 < hmj6502> but the router is the issue
22:50 < vortexx> some old thing
22:50 < hmj6502> 2019 is not old :(
22:50 < oldlaptop> too damn new
22:50 < hmj6502> xD
22:51 < hmj6502> i have an 18 year old macbook that im proud of :p
22:51 < oldlaptop> heretical keyboard layout, loads of design concessions to OMGTHIN
22:51 < hmj6502> too bad the display doesn't work...
22:51 < hmj6502> tried fixing many times
22:51 < oldlaptop> (but they're even worse now, so)
22:51 < hmj6502> hinge design just sucks
22:51 < hmj6502> so it always kills itself
22:51 < vortexx> iwm used to be alrightish
22:51 < hmj6502> oldlaptop: it's the best compromise for me tbh
22:51 < hmj6502> it's not heavy
22:51 < oldlaptop> Anything that ships on a thinkpad is probably alrightish, as a loose rule.
22:51 < hmj6502> it doesn't get hot
22:51 < vortexx> https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/dmesgd?do=view&id=8120
22:51 < hmj6502> it has okay battery life
22:52 < oldlaptop> Especially if it shipped on a thinkpad five or ten years ago.
22:52 < hmj6502> keyboard better than most
22:52 < vortexx> iwm is what came before iwx
22:52 < vortexx> which is basically the more or less best now right?
22:53 < hmj6502> seems so
22:53 < hmj6502> pretty sure my laptop had iwm
22:53 < hmj6502> and it was good enough
22:53 < vortexx> changing an access point can help a lot
22:53 < vortexx> I need to do that, right after I change for a router that'll do at least 2.5GBps
22:54 < hmj6502> my internet subscription is capped at a low speed, and i don't really need higher speeds so i dont wanna pay more
22:54 < vortexx> (hopefully before the summer, and some of you will remember I said that last year)
22:54 < hmj6502> also just to triple check
22:54 < hmj6502> https://www.amazon.co.uk/5400Mbps-Wireless-Bluetooth-Network-Express-BT5-2/dp/B0C7BF9MNX?th=1
22:54 < hmj6502> this is fine right?
22:55 < vortexx> in theory yeah
22:55 < hmj6502> hell yeah
22:55 < vortexx> btw why are you not cabling ethernet to the router instead of being right next to it with wifi?
22:55 < thrig> good thing companies never switch a bum chip into to replace a good one
22:55 < vortexx> thrig: indeed
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22:56 < hmj6502> im not right next to it tho; it's just when im on my laptop sometimes i stick right next to the router to download faster
22:56 < hmj6502> the pc is gonna be in the room furthest from the router
22:56 < hmj6502> because reasons
22:56 < vortexx> no one ever did that ever, especially not around 2004/5 when I was tracking down that one card that worked in FreeBSD
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22:56 < hmj6502> i cant cable ethernet all the way to that room without it looking ugly and/or a trip hazard
22:56 < vortexx> to say nothing of the attempts to find a PCMCIA card that hackintosh would work with
22:57 < hmj6502> plus wifi is nice either way
22:57 < vortexx> hmj6502: yeah wifi is nice but if you're not moving that laptop around, consider powerline
22:57 < hmj6502> i considered powerline, and said no because expensive
22:57 < hmj6502> it's £30-£50
22:57 < hmj6502> wifi cards are like £20
22:58 < vortexx> powerline is a) ethernet, b) not reliant on OpenBSD wifi drivers c) will save any hair you have left because network issues
22:58 < hmj6502> it seems to have a bad reputation tho, as potentially even worse than wifi, but idek if that's true
22:58 < hmj6502> sounds fishy to me
22:58 < hmj6502> but im no expert
22:58 < vortexx> I've deployed it here
22:58 < oldlaptop> I haven't fooled with powerline stuff - I wouldn't think it'd be anywhere near as reliable as real ethernet?
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22:58 < hmj6502> it seems to be hit or miss
22:58 < vortexx> it does 200Mbps
22:59 < oldlaptop> but normal ethernet PHYs are just about witchcraft anyway, so
22:59 < hmj6502> regardless, im gonna stick with wifi and if i can somehow figure out a non ugly way to cable ethernet i will
22:59 < vortexx> oldlaptop: it acutally is but I don't leave it plugged in all the time
22:59 < vortexx> s/acutally/actually
23:00 < vortexx> hmj6502: seriously, powerline works. Wifi is nice, especially for phones with limited data packages, but who's a fool with those in 2026?
23:00 < oldlaptop> (tangentially related: https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet-string.html)
23:00 < hmj6502> vortexx: uhmmmm.... me...?
23:00 < vortexx> I've got an APU2 sitting in the office connected to powerline, runs fine
23:00 < hmj6502> guess im a fool
23:00 < hmj6502> xD
23:00 < vortexx> hmj6502: truely
23:00 < hmj6502> i mean it's 10GB a month
23:00 < hmj6502> plenty
23:01 < vortexx> hmj6502: you don't stream shows while on the move then
23:01 < hmj6502> vortexx: *truly
23:01 < hmj6502> :p
23:01 < vortexx> I blow out 10Gb every month easily
23:01 < hmj6502> vortexx: indeed, i don't
23:01 < oldlaptop> I think mine has some kind of limit (above which it throttles or something). No idea what it is.
23:01 < hmj6502> sometimes i watch yt
23:01 < hmj6502> but mostly i just listen to music downloaded on my phone already
23:01 < hmj6502> good for when connection cuts out cause of the tube
23:02 < vortexx> oldlaptop: most plans do throttle above a limit, but if it's just listening to audio and you don't care about the video...
23:02 < vortexx> hmj6502: yes I have 100Gb of music to cover that issue
23:02 < hmj6502> i only have 45GB :(
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23:02 < vortexx> expand your downloads .P
23:03 < hmj6502> i dont even have space left
23:03 < hmj6502> 250gb ssd on my laptop
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23:03 < hmj6502> abysmal
23:03 < hmj6502> ssd prices are AWFUL now too
23:03 < vortexx> they are, along with ram, thanks AI companies
23:03 < hmj6502> ugh
23:03 < hmj6502> i opted to buy a previous gen system so i can snag ddr4
23:03 < hmj6502> for a decent price
23:03 < hmj6502> got 2x16gb for only £100, absolute steal
23:04 < hmj6502> 3200mhz as well
23:04 < vortexx> not too shabby
23:04 < hmj6502> hunting around for ssds but no one fucking knows how to send smart data
23:04 < hmj6502> so im not taking risks
23:04 < hmj6502> (buying used)
23:04 < vortexx> so wifi AND ssd
23:04 < vortexx> you're in a bit of pickle there
23:05 < hmj6502> yeah im building a pc
23:05 < hmj6502> i realised that prices are only gonna get WORSe
23:05 < hmj6502> until like 2-3 years
23:05 < hmj6502> so i may as well bite the bullet
23:05 < uzuri> theres a reason powerline never really made it
23:06 < vortexx> I bought my powerline devolo 2400MBps stuff second hand, had some hassle because the sockets and plugs were EURO but once I was sent the adapters (for free, well done digitec.ch ) I was in business
23:06 < uzuri> if theres a washing machine or other heavy electrical consumer near you, then expect packet loss at least
23:07 < vortexx> haven't even bothered to attribute fixed IPs on them, they're on the high range of DHCP and it all runs
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23:07 < uzuri> and also you need to encrypt all traffic if you even barely care about security/pricavy
23:07 < uzuri> unless you live alone in a single house
23:08 < vortexx> uzuri: In my own home? Yeah I have dishwasher/clotheswash/dryer as well
23:08 < vortexx> but in my use case, for now, that doesn't all run at the same time
23:08 < vortexx> if I was a twitch streamer I'm not sure it'd be ok
23:08 < uzuri> exactly
23:08 < vortexx> at least for 1080p and above
23:09 < uzuri> i woundnt wanna have my networking depend on those factors
23:09 < uzuri> you either go cable or go home, as they say
23:09 < vortexx> well I wouldn't want my networking to depend on OpenBSD wifi, frankly
23:09 < uzuri> exactly
23:10 < vortexx> and then according to misc@ people having lots of fun with certain drivers of late
23:11 < vortexx> I'd never heard of ICE(4)
23:11 < vortexx> but it's a thing these days
23:11 < uzuri> didnt see anything out of the ordinary
23:11 < uzuri> something broke in current?
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23:12 < vortexx> possibly
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23:27 -!- sroso [~sroso@user/SrOso] has quit [Client Quit]
23:27 -!- OnASnoopPhone [~OnASnoopP@user/OnASnoopPhone] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:28 -!- bitflip_ [~bitflip@136.33.6.97] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:28 -!- bitflip_ [~bitflip@136.33.6.97] has joined #openbsd
23:28 -!- as400_ [~as400@user/as400] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:29 -!- OnASnoopPhone [~OnASnoopP@user/OnASnoopPhone] has joined #openbsd
23:30 -!- librecat [uid714233@id-714233.helmsley.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
23:33 -!- DarkTaffy [~oldben@user/Old-Ben-Jabroni] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:37 -!- marcdimarco4 [~marcdimar@user/marcdimarco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:39 -!- marcdimarco4 [~marcdimar@user/marcdimarco] has joined #openbsd
23:39 -!- DarkTaffy [~oldben@user/Old-Ben-Jabroni] has joined #openbsd
23:40 -!- OnASnoopPhone [~OnASnoopP@user/OnASnoopPhone] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:40 -!- marcdimarco4 [~marcdimar@user/marcdimarco] has quit [Client Quit]
23:41 -!- marcdimarco4 [~marcdimar@user/marcdimarco] has joined #openbsd
23:42 -!- fedaykin [~rusty@user/fedaykin] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:45 -!- chkdsk [~chkdsk@user/chkdsk] has quit []
23:50 -!- adip [~adip@c145-19.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
23:51 -!- fedaykin [~rusty@user/fedaykin] has joined #openbsd
23:52 -!- memset_ [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:52 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd
23:59 -!- Wateir [~m-c5gjhm@2001:861:4140:f610:f1a:d2d2:84f3:c023] has joined #openbsd
--- Log closed Sun Feb 22 00:00:33 2026