--- Log opened Tue Mar 03 00:00:04 2026
00:02 -!- UserNotFound [~User@38.244.136.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
00:05 -!- as400 [~as400@user/as400] has joined #openbsd
00:06 -!- jonf [~jjf@163.5.171.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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00:15 -!- UserNotFound [~User@38.244.136.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
00:17 -!- haddock [~haddock@user/haddock] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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00:22 -!- dTc74 [~dTc74@user/dTc74] has quit [Quit: out...]
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00:25 < jab> haha
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00:32 -!- UserNotFound [~User@38.244.136.108] has joined #openbsd
00:34 -!- VitalStain [~VitalStai@p5b2c2d97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
00:39 -!- UserNotFound [~User@38.244.136.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
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00:41 -!- Wateir [~m-c5gjhm@user/Wateir] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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00:47 -!- UserNotFound [~User@38.244.136.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:47 -!- Wateir [~m-c5gjhm@user/Wateir] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
00:48 -!- user_with_nouser [~user_with@user/user-with-nouser:54838] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
00:48 -!- Bradipo [~Bradipo@50.77.44.19] has joined #openbsd
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00:55 -!- user_with_nouser [~user_with@user/user-with-nouser:54838] has joined #openbsd
01:01 -!- sunwind [~paradox@gateway/vpn/pia/sunwind] has quit [Quit: Outside Context Problem.]
01:05 -!- jgh [~jgh@hellmouth.gulag.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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01:17 < calciume> haha?
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01:24 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:25 -!- polarian [~polarian@2001:8b0:57a:2385:216:3eff:fefd:34cc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
01:25 -!- polarian_ is now known as polarian
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01:42 -!- UserNotFound [~User@38.244.136.108] has quit [Client Quit]
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02:09 -!- jitter [~jitter@84.46.32.27.dynamic-pppoe.dt.ipv4.wtnet.de] has joined #openbsd
02:09 -!- jitter [~jitter@84.46.32.27.dynamic-pppoe.dt.ipv4.wtnet.de] has quit [Changing host]
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02:26 -!- naltun [~naltun@67.213.209.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:34 -!- dansas is now known as dansa
02:49 -!- eniac [~eniac@user/eniac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:49 -!- eniac [~eniac@user/eniac] has joined #openbsd
02:52 -!- dansa [~user@177.50.49.115] has quit [Quit: ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.4)]
02:53 -!- Xenguy_ is now known as Xenguy
02:56 -!- UserNotFound [~User@38.244.136.108] has joined #openbsd
03:00 -!- eniac [~eniac@user/eniac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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03:00 -!- calciume [~calciume@user/calciume] has quit [Quit: https://calciu.me - leaving!]
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03:03 -!- lac [~lac@user/prettywellred] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1]
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03:21 -!- sunwind [~paradox@gateway/vpn/pia/sunwind] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:23 -!- aiub [~aiub@user/aiub-1:38606] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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03:28 -!- m0v [~m0v@user/m0v] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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03:29 -!- m0v [~m0v@210.87.86.197] has quit [Changing host]
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03:52 -!- zip100 [~zip100@185.213.155.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
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04:05 -!- VitalStain [~VitalStai@p5b2c27fd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openbsd
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05:31 -!- DetourNe- is now known as DetourNetworkUK
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06:03 -!- vados [~vados@46-133-36-179.mobile.vf-ua.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
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06:14 -!- Bradipo [~Bradipo@50.77.44.19] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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06:19 -!- ludovicus [~ludovicus@user/ludovicus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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06:21 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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06:48 -!- vdamewood [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
07:07 -!- DetourNetworkUK [~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:07 -!- DetourNe- [~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK] has joined #openbsd
07:09 -!- DetourNe- is now known as DetourNetworkUK
07:11 -!- gotohello [~gotohello@user/gotohello] has joined #openbsd
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09:12 -!- sonya [~nologin@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:37 < bleb> anyone know if there is any user support / discussion forum for majordomo?
18:38 < bleb> the mailing list software
18:38 < bleb> I see openbsd and netbsd still use it, but the project link on wikipedia is dead
18:38 < Bradipo> I wouldn't use majordomo at this stage.
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18:40 < Bradipo> There's a "recent" thread about it here: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=176106577627574&w=2
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19:33 < eea> majordomo being used today? nice.
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19:52 < bleb> I got interested in the mailman 2 deprecation crisis
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19:53 < bleb> I guess mailman started as an alternative to majordomo
19:54 < bleb> now mailman 2 is becoming difficult to run due to removal of python 2, and mailman 3 is an order of magnitude more complex to manage
19:55 < bleb> so there are services to give extended support to distros running python 2 and someone is maintaining a port of mailman 2 to python 3
19:55 < k0ga> the last time I needed a mailing list I just used a .forward file
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19:56 < bleb> so those who stuck with majordomo are seeming to come out on top, since perl respects their users and maintains backward compatibility
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19:57 < bleb> but I guess the majordomo ecosystem is completely fragmented and there aren't enough people left to warrant a support/discussion form for majordomo anyway
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20:00 < bleb> it's interesting to see people recommend against majordomo due to lack of maintenance, yet that risk is apparently not enough to warrant switching to something else
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20:19 < Bradipo> bleb: Well, I use a similarly old and unmaintained MLM for my mailing lists (ezmlm).
20:20 < Bradipo> So if using old software that still runs is "coming out on top", I suppose I'm in the minority of winners? :-)
20:21 < Bradipo> As for switching to something else... well, what else is there?  Most of the "internet" has moved on from mailing lists to WWW based forums and other technologies.
20:21 < Bradipo> Or if they are into mass marketing, they use Amazon SES, Mailgun, etc.
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20:21 < Bradipo> Are you just looking for MLM software that runs on OpenBSD?
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20:40 < bleb> I was just curious about the post-mailman 2 mailing list landscape
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20:43 < bleb> I noticed openbsd and netbsd still use majordomo, but I see now that they are different versions (it looks like netbsd uses majordomo-1.94 from pkgsrc)
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20:44 < bleb> linux and freebsd use mlmmj which is kind of a maintained re-implementation of ezmlm; that was also the sole suggestion on the linked openbsd thread
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20:48 < bleb> but there was a nice period when mailman 2 was the go to choice, and it provided a friendly enough web interface for the non-technical people to use without insulting them with misfeatures, while being stable and easy to administer
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20:50 < bleb> with mailman 2 being pushed off the table, it's troubling to see the scattering of communities to discord, signal, discourse, etc.
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20:53 < bleb> GNOME moved from mailman 2 to discourse and their infrastructure team coordinator said discourse "offers way more features than Mailman, including gamification which newer generations, in general, appreciate"
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20:54 < bleb> I'm hoping for a project that fills the mailman 2 niche but embodies a rejection of that attitude
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21:04 < Bradipo> bleb: Kind of reminiscent of when NNTP became less popular.
21:04 < Bradipo> Younger generations these days don't even know what a mailing list is.  Or newsgroups.  Or IRC.
21:05 < Bradipo> I don't even know what "gamification" is, lol.
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21:06 < sibiria> turning something into a sort of game to get people to put time in it "for fun" while doing your dirty work
21:06 < sibiria> a billion people training google's CAPTCHA is an excellent case of something that was gamified
21:06 < sibiria> training their image recognition algos for them
21:06 < Bradipo> How many billions of seconds have been wasted as a result, lol.
21:08 < szilard> Bradipo: it is not about the younger generation, it is about comfort. Discord and stuff have much bigger impact and provides a more streamlined user experience.
21:08 < szilard> At least they say that.
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21:12 < bleb> people didn't train google's captcha as a game... they did it because they had to in order to log in
21:12 < bleb> the gamification refernced in the quote is stuff like getting a notification congratulating you on earning a badge for your first post to earn 10 thumbs ups
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21:27 < thrig> that's nice, but how does one turn it off
21:29 < bleb> you mean you don't appreciate it?
21:30 < pardis> I turn it off by closing the browser tab as soon as I see it
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