--- Log opened Wed Mar 04 00:00:06 2026
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01:29 < litl> @bleb you can get assistance at the bottom of the page for majordomo at https://lists.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr - you can email owner-majordomo@openbsd.org
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01:44 < dwayneiam> I have laptop I use for desktop almost always plugged in. I would like to boot with "apmd -L", it get warm.
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01:47 < dwayneiam> Question is, if i use "apmd -L" = 400Mhz will it throttle up on demand or stay at 400Mhz "apmd -H" = 1800Mhz
01:48 < dg> you probably want apmd -A? see man apmd "The default performance policy is "high" when connected to line current, and "auto" when running on battery."
01:49 < dg> you want it to behave like it does on battery, not in -L
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01:52 < dwayneiam> dg: yes read man. On this machine auto seems to be 400Mhz. Played some videos and nothing changed?
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01:54 < dwayneiam> Auto and low seem to be the same
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01:56 < uwharrie> there's also sysutils/obsdfreqd
01:57 < dwayneiam> dg: Also thought i read somewhere that auto wasn't working? Could have been old news. 
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01:59 < dwayneiam> uwharrie: Saw that also somewhere. Whould like to keep system as close to "the Openbsd way" as i can
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02:02 < dwayneiam> Lost point of original question. Will it throttle up <--> down on demand?
02:04 < uwharrie> also have a look at https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20241129093132
02:04 < dwayneiam> Ok thanks
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02:12 < uwharrie> auto leaves the decision up to the hardware but some hardware assumes the OS is going to handle things, hence obsdfreqd https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2022-04-21-openbsd-71-fan-noise-temperature.html
02:12 < litl> @dwayneiam -L is a manual performance adjustment mode and initializes hw.setperf to 0 (low) -H initializes hw.setperf to 100 so -L for low and -H for high and you should be able to manually adjust with hw.setperf to what you want. -A is auto performance adjustment. so if you're using -L or -H it shouldn't auto adjust performance but you can with hw.setperf
02:16 < litl> this gaming laptop is my main machine and i leave it on the default which is high (i never unplug the laptop) and it seems to only run warm/hot if i'm on a website that's javascript heavy, like watching videos on odysee. normally runs between 55-60C and up to 90C when on odysee. if it's a modern processor it's okay because processors can run at 100C with no damage and still be okay with how they're made these days.
02:17 < dwayneiam> uwharrie: litl: Thanks
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02:20 < dwayneiam> litl: I have mine open like tablet and i put it in stand and then another monitor. Dual monitor. Hoping it wont get too warm in that config.
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02:23 < litl> you can use btop to monitor CPU/GPU temp. if it goes above 100C i would try to place the laptop where it can get more airflow. laptops are terrible with airflow even this mid-end gaming laptop.
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06:19 < rnkn> does OpenBSD not have an automatic way to partition the disk for EFI boot?
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06:22 < dg> questions are best asked as questions rather than essentially negative assertions
06:23 < dg> openbsd will install fine on a system that uses efi boot and has a blank disk
06:23 < dg> if other OSes are involved and that's your question, then it might need help
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07:10 < rnkn> okay after some more investigation, it doesn't
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07:13 < rnkn> or more trial & error
07:14 < IcePic> rnkn: perhaps you could be a bit more clear on what you are not finding, because as dg also noted, openbsd runs and installs on EFI systems.
07:16 < rnkn> IcePic: when installing to a QEMU server I needed to manually create the FAT32, EFI Sys and OpenBSD disk partitions in order to boot, there was not an automatic way
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07:16 < rnkn> but I solved the problem so the question is kinda moot
07:17 < rnkn> now I'm onto figuring out why pkg_add wants to install ffmpeg 6 not 8
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07:49 < mischief> rnkn: needing to manually partition like that has not been my experience.
07:50 < mischief> and i've installed openbsd in qemu under libvirt with efi a few times in the past year...
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10:02 < gipa> rnkn: did you initialize the disk with MBR or GPT?
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10:29 < vortexx> rnkn: I chose (w)Whole (which is the default) to setup UEFI boot (with disk encryption) and it worked just fine in 7.8 . Strangely enough it doesn't like the install78.iso (mounted via s-ata emu). It creates the necessary EFI/ESP partition just fine, has for a decade
10:30 < rnkn> thanks, but choosing whole ends the installation with "Failed to install bootblocks. You will not be able to boot from sd0"
10:30 < rnkn> the manual way is the only way that works
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10:30 < vortexx> just worked here. I wonder if you chose the wrong disk?
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10:33 < rnkn> there's only one disk, it's a server VM
10:34 < rnkn> does OpenBSD SSHFS honour the allow_other flag to give non-priv users read/write access to a mounted fs?
10:34 < rnkn> I've also chmod 666 /dev/fuse0 after reading something in the mailing list, but still no
10:35 < pardis> (W)hole sets up MBR partitioning, not GPT, and will not work with UEFI
10:35 < pardis> you need to choose whole disk with (G)PT (from memory, I think that's the option name)
10:35 < pardis> you definitely do not need to do it manually
10:36 < pardis> (W)hole might indeed work with FDE, because in that case you are selecting the partitioning scheme for the "inner" encrypted disk, which is unimportant for UEFI to work
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10:38 < rnkn> (G)PT gave a warning that it may not boot, and then did not boot
10:38 < pardis> the only case I can think of where that can happen is if you mess around with the disklabel manually and remove the 'i' partition (which is needed for installboot to find the UEFI system partition)
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10:39 < pardis> but there are probably others, you'd have to walk through all the steps you took to figure it out
10:39 < sibiria> maybe you forgot the ESP
10:39 < vortexx> damn I didn't even notice that virtmanager gave me bios boot instead of uefi for "linux 2024 vm"
10:39 < sibiria> openbsd's disk label layout makes it an easy thing to forget
10:39 < vortexx> going to tty again
10:39 < vortexx> s/tty/try
10:40 < rnkn> nope, it just needs manual, perhaps a quirk of this host
10:40 < rnkn> doesn't matter
10:40 < rnkn> what's really eating me now is getting sshfs with read/write permissions for rsync
10:41 < pardis> rclone's sftp provider may work more reliably than FUSE
10:41 < pardis> and won't require cooperation from root
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10:42 < pardis> or alternatively, rsync can speak ssh natively
10:42 < pardis> if all you want is to run rsync, sshfs is completely unnecessary
10:43 < rnkn> I'm trying to do an rsync from a remote hetzner storage box to a locally mounted sshfs storage box
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10:43 < rnkn> it worked mounting them both with sshfs then doing cp -R /mnt /mnt2 but it was painfully slow
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10:44 < IcePic> rsync -e ssh -avP user@src: user@dst:  <- whats wrong with this?
10:45 < pardis> I get "The source and destination cannot both be remote." if I try to rsync between two ssh remotes
10:45 < pardis> but rclone should be able to sync from one sftp server to another
10:45 < IcePic> oh, yes.
10:45 < dg> you can maybe do something like rsync -e "ssh -J a-jump-host", or rclone
10:45 < IcePic> scp -3 style copying
10:45 < dg> (assuming the issue is one host can't get to the other)
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10:55 < rnkn> this is why I'm mounting the closer storage box as sshfs, so I can rsync from the far storage box, to the locally sshfs mounted one
10:55 < rnkn> but I can't seem to get rsync to have read/write permissions on the locally sshfs mounted paths
10:55 < rnkn> my own user can
10:56 < pardis> ???
10:56 < pardis> "rsync" is a program, not a user
10:56 < pardis> if your user has permissions, so does rsync running as that user
10:57 < rnkn> I wish that were true
10:57 < pardis> well, we'll be here when you feel like explaining what you're doing or trying one of the several suggestions that has been made
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10:59 < rnkn> I can step through if you like
10:59 < rnkn> # chmod -R +rw /mnt/hetzbox
11:00 < rnkn> $ echo hello world > /mnt/hetzbox/foo
11:00 < rnkn> $ rm /mnt/hetzbox/foo
11:00 < rnkn> override rw-r--r--  556737/556737 for /mnt/hetzbox/foo?
11:00 < rnkn> y
11:01 < rnkn> $ rsync -av hetzbox-old:Music/ /mnt/hetzbox/Music/
11:01 < rnkn> rsync: error: 36 & zake/Stasis Sounds for Long-Distance Space Travel: mkdirat: Permission denied
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11:01 < rnkn> voila
11:03 < pardis> so what happens if you run 'mkdir -p /mnt/hetzbox/foo/bar' as an ordinary user, doing the same thing rsync is doing when it errors?
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11:07 < rnkn> I got it I got it I got it
11:08 < rnkn> sshfs needed -o umask=000
11:08 < rnkn> successfully running rsync now
11:08 < rnkn> woo!
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11:09 < rnkn> ah fk. write failed, file system is full
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11:25 < vortexx> (wg+nfs would have worked too, but to each their own)
11:26 < vortexx> (also virtmanager won't boot install78.img or .iso in UEFI mode... odd)
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11:28 < mischief> it will
11:28 < mischief> turn off secureboot.
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11:30 < rnkn> umask was a red herring, back to square no.1
11:30 < zelest> secureboot in virtmanager? :o
11:31 < mischief> it has existed for some time (via edk2/ovmf etc)
11:31 < zelest> TIL
11:32 < rnkn> vortexx: the storage box is not a server, it's storage with a couple of available backends (ssh/rsync/restic/etc.). I don't know if this means nfs woudl work.
11:32 < mischief> vortexx: you can disable secureboot enforcement here https://0x0.st/Pjig.png
11:33 < mischief> make sure you set 'Enable boot menu' for your boot options in the domain config..
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12:00 < rnkn> I am throwing in the towel on sshfs on obsd
12:02 < sibiria> doesn't rsync's own ssh suffice?
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12:02 < sibiria> i don't understand why fuse and sshfs is involved
12:03 < rnkn> sibiria: rsync can't do remote -> remote
12:04 < rnkn> what I didn't try was mounting sshfs with -o uid=1000 (me) but I've already deleted the VM... do I put myself thru this again?
12:05 < rnkn> I could confirm/deny the UEFI disk partition mystery...
12:06 < sibiria> i guess it wasn't much of a mystery. when running in strict EFI it will want an ESP inside a GPT partition, and nothing else
12:07 < rnkn> sibiria: will you talk me thru that when I get to that install step?
12:07 < sibiria> sure
12:07 < rnkn> sibiria: ty!
12:08 < sibiria> as pardis pointed out, the installer has a (G)PT option during the fdisk step which is what you want. the disk label bit is less obvious so just ask once you're there
12:08 < pardis> if only somebody had made a suggestion that didn't involve sshfs
12:12 < rnkn> I am at the (G)PT step, there is existing Linux partitions from the VM's default Debian install, does that matter, or just select (G)?
12:12 < sibiria> yeah that should zap everything and give you a clean GPT scheme
12:12 < rnkn> selected G; got the warning: An EFI/GPT disk may not boot. Proceed?
12:13 < sibiria> proceed
12:13 < rnkn> (A)uto layout?
12:13 < sibiria> if you're ok with the auto layout's distribution you can go with that. else, if you want to take the careful route, you can EDIT that layout and remove everything but the "i" partition (the ESP)
12:14 < sibiria> and just fill in the rest manually as you want/need to
12:14 < rnkn> I'm happy with the auto
12:15 < pardis> how sure are you that this system actually has UEFI boot?
12:15 < pardis> that warning seems to imply otherwise
12:15 < rnkn> the preexisting Linux partitions had a UEFI sys partition
12:16 < pardis> so not sure at all
12:16 < sibiria> the installer coughs up that warning for me, too, on my EFI-only systems
12:16 < rnkn> "Failed to install bootblocks. You will not be able to boot OpenBSD from sd0."
12:17 < mischief> the check for that is..
12:17 < mischief> grep -q -e '^efifb0 at mainbus0' -e '^acpi0 at bios0: ACPI [5-9]\.' \
12:17 < sibiria> is sd0 the actual disk and not the miniroot/install image?
12:17 < mischief>     $DMESGBOOT && MDEFI=y
12:18 < rnkn> I'm pretty certain the VM is UEFI, I had contacted Hetzner support about something unrelated and they said all new VMs have UEFI bootloaders
12:18 < sibiria> that is, if you're booting from a USB memory or ISO, you will find two devices and the order may not be guaranteed
12:18 < rnkn> s/certain/sure/
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12:19 < sibiria> when i set openbsd up on hetzner i write the miniroot directly onto the main disk via their rescue system
12:19 < rnkn> just looking at disklabel output, part i is MSDOS. shouldn't it be UEFI sys?
12:19 < sibiria> yes that would be the ESP
12:20 < rnkn> given that doing a manual disk partition to add the UEFI sys part works, would that imply the VM has UEFI?
12:21 < rnkn> s/part/partition/
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12:22 < sibiria> did you boot from an ISO or virtual USB drive, or from the main disk
12:22 < rnkn> I've booted from the ISO again to restart the installation process.
12:22 < rnkn> I can try booting without the ISO to confirm it won't boot
12:22 < rnkn> ?
12:23 < sibiria> i meant for the installation itself. the other option is to write the miniroot onto the main drive (via hetzner's rescue mode) and then boot and install via the console
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12:24 < rnkn> the thing is I have another obsd VM with hetzner; I managed to install that from the ISO, so it's really puzzling me why this isn't working...
12:25 < sibiria> yeah it shouldn't really make any difference. i'm just offering the alternative, since that's all i have experience with and it always worked for me on both Arm64 and x86-64
12:25 < sibiria> but it *is* a virtual machine? not one of their dedicated servers from their auctions?
12:25 < rnkn> virtual yes
12:26 < rnkn> I will save the rescue system for plan B just because I've sunk so much time into this I want to solve it
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14:35 < rnkn> I went back and read the previous support email and nup, the VM model I'm using uses BIOS, not UEFI. fantasic.
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14:36 < IcePic> only a full day lost on that detail
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16:39 < typicat> sysupgrade -s segfaulted like 10 times from yesterdays snapshot to todays, but pushed through and update went fine.. is my disk dying? ;)
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16:40 < pardis> if a shell script is segfaulting, I'd expect a lot more to be broken than just sysupgrade
16:42 < typicat> pretty much after each downloaded package
16:42 < pardis> sysupgrade doesn't download packages, it downloads sets
16:42 < typicat> s/package/set
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16:45 < typicat> oh well, was fine before, is fine now - gonna wait to see what happens next time
16:45 < sandmanXpuff> i like to do sysupgrade -s -n so everything gets downloaded first, then can check the checksums to makesure the sets are right before rebooting
16:47 < uwharrie> sysupgrade already does that and aborts if the checksums are off
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16:58 < vortexx> rnkn: I suspected as much
16:58 < vortexx> mischief: cheers, got it installed now
16:59 < vortexx> efifb is so nice :)
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17:18 < lts> Again errata? Just when I this morning rebooted the last host from previous ones :-D 
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17:46 < vortexx> lts: lots of plumbing going on by the looks of it
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17:47 < lts> Yeah, I'm not really complaining
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18:14 < jab`> ok, weird question...I'm trying to record a screencast of me using my Debian GNU/Hurd computer (I'm running Debian GNU/hurd on a T420).  I'm trying to sell said computer, and I want people to see what it can do.  I can record the computer with my cell phone, but I'd rather the video be of high quality...
18:14 < jab`> this is where it gets weird...
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18:15 < jab`> The Hurd is fairly limited.  I think the best way to get that video, is to make it on the Hurd, then to transfer the video to my OpenBSD machine.  Then upload that video to youtube.
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18:16 < jab`> The easiest way that I can think to do so...is to record the screencast on the Hurd machine, upload the video to server at hurdos.com...then download the video with my openBSD machine.
18:18 < jab`> I suppose that I could "forward the ssh session"...as in, using my openBSD machine...ssh into the Hurd computer...then when I look at my OpenBSD computer, I would actually be virtually looking at my Hurd i3 session.
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18:19 < sibiria> USB HDMI capture devices cost pennies, if you happen to have a Linux- or Windows machine handy to run OBS Studio on
18:19 < jab`> anyway...all that to say, I can't seem to log into my hurdos.com server from my Hurd machine, because I can't enable password authentication...
18:19 < sibiria> every now and then one of those come in handy
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18:21 < jab`> sibiria: I'm trying to understand your suggestion...let me wordily repeat it back to you...So I would plug in a USB HDMI capture device into my Hurd T420 machine.  And the Hurd would forward the screen into my Linux machine, which records the screen.
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18:23 < sibiria> you plug the Hurd's HDMI output into the USB capture device, which you plug into another PC. the capture device will manifest as a USB "webcam" containing the video output of your T420
18:23 < sibiria> basic video capturing device
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18:24 < jab`> I'm pretty sure that the Hurd doesn't support HDMI...but I'd have to check...It still doesn't really support USB.  We are currently trying to get more device drivers from netBSD's rump.
18:25 < sibiria> ditto exists for VGA as well
18:25 < jab`> I know the Hurd supports VGA!
18:25 < sibiria> either way i suppose it's less of a mess to record the SSH session if that suffices
18:26 < jab`> how does one record the ssh session ?  I don't know how to log into my hurd machine...and just forward "hurd desktop" to my openbsd machine.
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18:26 < jab`> and actually I think may just email my hurd's ssh key to myself...then I can add that ssh key to my openbsd server.
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18:27 < jab`> I REALLY need to donate to the OpenBSD people.  ssh is Sooo helpful.  I use it everyday!
18:27 < sibiria> ffmpeg can record X sessions
18:28 < sibiria> off the top of my head i don't know how anymore because it's been ages since i last used it for that, but my best friend in the whole world, lavaball, who has been perma-muted here by the oppressive admin dictators, knows how. you could shoot him a privmsg
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18:29 < sibiria> tell him "sibiria sent me"
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18:48 < Bradipo> sibiria: ffmpeg -f x11grab
18:48 < Bradipo> I use it all the time.
18:48 < Bradipo> Well, "quite often", might be more accurate than "all the time".
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20:19 < jab>  sibiria: I finally figured it out.  I used paste.debian.net to paste my hurd computer's ssh key.
20:19 < jab> now my hurd computer can access hurdos.com  
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20:54 < hmjsp> how much space would i need in /usr/src and /usr/obj if i wanted to mess around with kernel and/or ports?
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20:58 < vortexx> those aren't used by ports
20:58 < cgnarne> that really depends. do you want to mess with firefox or chrome? then the answer for ports is "all of it"
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20:58 < vortexx> unless you use proot to setup a build env for ports, ports will be eating up space in /usr
20:59 < Bradipo> I always mount /usr/ports separately from /usr.
20:59 < vortexx> the defaults for /usr/src & /usr/obj should be fine for doing kernel stuff
21:00 < vortexx> Bradipo: if you have proot set up a build partition, you just symlink the copied ports tree to /usr/ports
21:01 < mischief> probably ~5G for /usr/src, if you ever expect to use the git conversion and not just cvs
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21:19 < hmjsp> cgnarne: no firefox or chrome xD
21:19 < hmjsp> i prolly want have the time for it for a loooong time but i have a wifi card that doesn't work on openbsd and it had some discussion on mailing list years ago...
21:19 < hmjsp> should be fun to learn how to port that stuff and poke around and whatnot
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21:20 < hmjsp> mischief: i see... why use the git conversion if everything is officially done in cvs anyways? never worked with cvs but heard it's not that great...
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21:21 < thrig> you may have some skills with git and none with cvs
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21:22 < tux0r> cvs > git
21:22 < tux0r> overengineered, incoherent, bloated BS software
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21:23 < tux0r> friends don't let friends use git.
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21:27 < cgnarne> well there's got and git9 is pretty ok
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21:31 < mischief> i've been meaning to try out jujutsu, but haven't got around to it
21:31 < krzych> hi, help me, i patch new openbsd end i have "dkimsign_rsa: pledge: Invalid argument" on  smtpd
21:32 < mischief> i also keep a local mirror of openbsd source on git that i pull from, which is lightyears faster than syncing cvs
21:32 < zelest> did you 'pkg_add -u' ?
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21:42 < Feigr> is there a way to hide the scrollbar for xconsole? I have tried flags and Xresources but I can't find anything that works
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21:46 < mischief> Feigr: did you try the scrollBar x resource
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21:47 < mischief> check /usr/X11R6/share/X11/app-defaults/XTerm:286:*scrollBar: true - this x resouce defaults to true here..
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21:50 < hmjsp> thrig: true, but it would probably be helpful to learn cvs in the long run... or for curiosity's sake :p
21:50 < hmjsp> tux0r: aside from feature creep, what's actually wrong with git?
21:50 < hmjsp> got seems to be just git without feature creep
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21:57 < Feigr> mischief: I tried changing that value and it did nothing, I also looked at the /usr/X11R6/share/X11/app-defaults/XConsole file, and it had nothing about the scrollbar
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22:03 < mischief> Feigr: how did you change it?
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 05 00:00:07 2026