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02:40 < puffybuf> shiiiit # sysupgrade -ns gives Segmentation fault
02:42 < puffybuf> I've been upgrading 1/week
02:42 < usagi_mimi> have you tried turning it on and off again? :)
02:43 < usagi_mimi> I need to check if the bug preventing hot reboot on this machine has been fixed yet. I got in the habit of turning it off 3 years ago and never bothered to try to track down the bug
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02:43 < puffybuf> I'm doin that right now
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02:45 < puffybuf> this is what I get running current
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02:46 < usagi_mimi> I've been running current for two years now and rarely have any issues just check the mailing list before blindly running sysupgrade -s
02:48 < thrig> on -stable they sometimes break ports (e.g. lilypond) while fixing other things (e.g. ghostscript)
02:50 < usagi_mimi> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=177264531217333&w=2 Looks like it was already fixed in latest snapshot
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03:55 < dg> hmm, that's somewhat surprising, useradd will let you specify -G, add a user to an existing group, but if the line in /etc/group goes over 1024 characters the group stops working for everyone
03:55 < dg> This is listed as a bug in group(5)
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03:59 < rnkn> for completeness, the errors I was getting with openrsync when attempting to sync to a sshfs destination owned by my uid/gid went away by installing regular rsync
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04:03 < mischief> dg: NGROUPS_MAX is 16 anyway
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04:04 < dg> mischief: that's per user, imagine one large group with a bunch of users in it
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04:31 < thrig> for some /etc/passwd you can have multiple entries for the same group on different lines
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04:31 < thrig> err /etc/group
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04:34 < dg> heh, that sort of works, but usermod goes and modifies both the lines
04:37 < dg> I was thinking I should switch to ypldap anyway, probably the best answer
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04:56 < thrig> lots of tooling may be ignorant of "just put another line into group"
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05:04 < dg> well group(5) says "The file /etc/group consists of newline separated ASCII records, one per group"
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05:09 < mischief> dg: perhaps it would work if you used the bdb format
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05:41 < dg> mischief: unless I'm missing something that only exists for the passwd database, not group
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05:46 < thrig> (by "some" /etc/passwd I mean some old versions of linux, haven't tested it in a while)
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05:55 < mischief> hm, i didnt realize that lol
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06:06 < thrig> openbsd at least appears to stop the group parsing on the first matching line, as documented (shocking, I know)
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07:37 < rnkn> what's a minimal service monitor that just restarts with rcctl when a service crashes?
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07:42 < IcePic> while sleep 1; do rcctl check Service || rcctl start Service ; done
07:42 < rnkn> IcePic: thanks, that is minimal!
07:42 < IcePic> apart from blindly restarting crashing stuff is perhaps not the most secure stance one can hold
07:44 < rnkn> how's this? https://paste.sr.ht/~rnkn/d01e7fb140408831bc451da155a4e072bddd7a31
07:45 < Ove_> What a bandaid solution
07:46 < Ove_> _Why_ do the crash?
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07:46 < Ove_> s/solution/"solution"/
07:46 < mischief> you don't choose crashes, crashes choose you
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07:53 < lts> That is a horrible way to do services
07:54 < rnkn> Ove_: what's your alternative?
07:54 < lts> Very kubernetes too
07:54 < rnkn> I'm hearing a lot of criticisms but not many solutions guys
07:56 < lts> At minimum you'd want to get an alert when that happens
07:56 < IcePic> a few options include: "if a piece of software crashes a lot, dont run that one", "figure out the crashes by debugging, fuzzing, talking to developers of said bad software" or even worse, if its stable on penguinOS, run an instance in vmm(8) to hold the shaky software alive
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08:00 < rnkn> better? https://paste.sr.ht/~rnkn/788f82c5ed425c48874d77a8d82f5ef0f5571182
08:01 < Ove_> rnkn: No, your whole approach is wrong.
08:01 < rnkn> Ove_: thanks for you suggestion
08:01 < Ove_> I mean you can do auto-restart, but it's not really a good solution. It's a bandaid.
08:01 < Ove_> Find out _why_ it crashes, and either report it to developers or fix it yourself.
08:02 < lts> I can understand wanting to restore a service while investigating why it crashed
08:02 < IcePic> could be as simple as "ulimits on obsd are far lower than other OSes", but if everyone just restarts-when-fail then it will never get fixed
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08:04 < rnkn> just because a daemon gets restarted doesn't mean I'm not going to investigate
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08:18 < IcePic> rnkn: we're not trying to say what you are thinking, but when someone paints the restarts as the "problem" for which one needs a solution, its a bit like an XY problem(*), where the actual problem is the crashes, and not how to restart after crashes easily. So again, not trying to claim we know what you thought, just that people coming in with the "simple" angle (like restart instead of debug) are 
08:18 < IcePic> generally not improving the overall situation, which is why you might encounter some "resistance" to simply helping you with the trivals instead of the more complete and hopefully better path to a real solution
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08:21 < rnkn> IcePic: I see, good explanation
08:22 < rnkn> everything is working fine atm so I'm not overly concerned (except that my outgoing port 25 is blocked so I won't get crash alerts)
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08:31 < lts> You should consider a centralized local/intranet email server for system maintenance emails
08:31 < lts> sysutils/monit might interest you btw
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08:36 < rnkn> lts: thanks, I'm using monit on a production server, this is just for my smol server
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11:14 < cation> After installing the February 27 patches with syspatch, I received "Relinking to create unique kernel... failed! !!! "/usr/libexec/reorder_kernel" must be run manually to install the new kernel" - I didn't do anything about it. Just now, I installed three more patches and received the same error. Is there anything to worry about?
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11:18 < zelest> Run /usr/libexec/reorder_kernel manually? :)
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11:21 < cation> it exited with status code 1
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11:23 < cation> logs: https://bpa.st/VJPA
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11:23 < cation> "Failed to verify /bsd's checksum" doesn't look good...
11:24 < zelest> And what does /usr/share/relink/kernel/GENERIC.MP/relink.log say?
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11:24 < cation> it's in that paste above
11:24 < zelest> Oh
11:24 < zelest> And what does it say? :)
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11:25 < cation> "Failed to verify /bsd's checksum"... :)
11:25 < zelest> ...and the rest? :)
11:25 < cation> I see it has instructions for making it forget about it, but why would that happen in the first place?
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11:26 < cgnarne> do you run current?
11:26 < zelest> That I don't know though..
11:26 < cation> no
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11:26 < cation> this is the 7.8 release
11:26 < sibiria> not enough space on either /tmp or /usr
11:27 < sibiria> some syspatches need /tmp space, and relinking needs a bit of headroom on /usr
11:27 < cation> tmp has 3GB free, usr has 5GB free
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11:27 < sibiria> i wonder if your object files were damaged somehow
11:28 < sibiria> du -sh /usr/share/relink/*
11:28 < sibiria> 600-ish mb for kernel/, 30-ish for usr?
11:29 < cation> 681M    /usr/share/relink/kernel30.1M   /usr/share/relink/usr 
11:29 < vortexx> might be worth bootng into bsd.rd, running upgrade, and then reapplying syspatch in case your /usr/share/relink files are damaged?
11:29 < sibiria> seems normal
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11:39 < vortexx> puffybuf: just updated to the latest snapshot on my -current vm, it's not segfaulting here
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11:44 < cgnarne> same here. before syspatch was segfaulting. it's fine now
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11:54 < cation> okay so I decided to fetch a new bsd.rd for 7.8...
11:54 < cation> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade78.html#InteractiveUpgrade
11:54 < cation> signify -C -p /etc/signify/openbsd-78-base.pub -x SHA256.sig bsd.rd         signify: signature verification failed 
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11:56 < cation> never mind
11:56 < cation> I copied and pasted the text in the first time and it didn't like the newline
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12:00 < jab> http://miod.online.fr/software/openbsd/stories/sgiall.html   
12:00 < jab> sibiria: thanks for your help yesterday again!  
12:01 < sibiria> glad you solved it, whichever way you solved it
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12:07 < jab> I emailed myself the public gpg keys.  :)  
12:08 < jab> I can link you to the resulting video if you are interested.  :)
12:08 < sibiria> you could paste the link here, maybe a few others find interest in it
12:10 < jab> https://video.hardlimit.com/w/p/m9NG2f1GCm6cSZrVzpmLR7?playlistPosition=21&resume=true   
12:11 < jab> top quality.  oscar award winning really!
12:14 < sibiria> could do with a few extra bits per second, but message comes across
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12:20 < jab> yeah.  I'll do that next time.
12:20 < jab> I also read a brief conversation on #openbsd yesterday, but I did not read all of it.
12:21 < jab> someone said that "there is a lot of code changes" happening in OpenBSD core...or something to that effect.  I haven't really seen anything like that on undeadly.  Is there quite a bit of OpenBSD development going on that I've missed ?
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12:23 < IcePic> there was a hackathon recently, some more commits during that period
12:24 < IcePic> and just there past weeks, some pledge thing was removed and replaced with equivalent unveil() calls, which made a certain amount of churn in the source 
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12:28 < jab> gotcha.  I'll look forward to that hackathon report.
12:28 < jab> I'm like the idea of trying to have a Hurd hackathon.  I'm a fan of the Hurd.
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12:40 < cgnarne> jab: did you take a look at plan9? there's a lot of overlap in ideas between the two
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12:57 < jab> cgnarne: I'm not super familiar with plan9...
12:58 < jab> but one of the hurd developers started to work on a 9pfs translator.
12:58 < jab> it's not finished and I don't think he released the source code to anyone, but some of the Hurd people like plan9's ideas.
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13:10 < cgnarne> hurd is like fusion power, it's always a few years away from being ready
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13:11 < pardis> microkernels replace a small set of known problems with a large set of unknown problems
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13:17 < cgnarne> known unkowns or unknown unknowns?
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13:26 < pardis> yes
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14:19 < thrig> unknown knows
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17:30 < mlxdy> Hello, dual boot with OpenBSD and Linux on one disk is good idea?
17:30 < mlxdy> But when both root partitions are encrypted, I forget about that.
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17:31 < mlxdy> Without this it wouldn't be problem for me.
17:31 < mlxdy> Also how about sharing files?
17:32 < mlxdy> Maybe I expect too much but maybe you have any ideas.
17:33 < thrig> dual boot complicates the disk layout and complicates applying patches, running the other OS under a virt may be more ergonomic
17:34 < mlxdy> Yeah, but it's not the same experience then hah. 
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17:35 < Bradipo> mlxdy: Have you ever run OpenBSD?
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17:43 < mlxdy> On VPS for some time and when I was kid on old parents netbook installed OpenBSD with X and basic games. I tried to install it lastly on my laptop but I had the lack of time to configure it so I had to end with Linux.
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17:46 < Bradipo> Ok, I was just wondering because dual-boot isn't exactly the simplest configuration.
17:47 < mlxdy> I had dual boot Linux and FreeBSD.
17:47 < Bradipo> There's this for help: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting
17:47 < mlxdy> But without encryption.
17:47 < mlxdy> It was really simple.
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17:47 < Bradipo> Yeah, I've never tried dual-boot with encryption.
17:48 < cgnarne> i don't see any good reason to dual boot from the same disk. just go with virtualization 
17:49 < cgnarne> or use different disk. my thinkpad has nvme and an ssd. one got OpenBSD, the other alpine linux
17:50 < mlxdy> You have two disk at the same time?
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17:53 < mlxdy> What is reason behind using Alpine Linux? No GNU Core Utilities?
17:53 < cgnarne> it's smol
17:54 < cgnarne> and simple. feels a bit like a BSD
17:55 < mlxdy> There's also Void Linux.
17:55 < mlxdy> It's working with ZFS.
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17:57 < mlxdy> As I see Alpine too.
18:01 < greeb> small, uses musl instead of the horror that is glibc (like Void, which was already mentioned)
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18:09 < mlxdy> To be honest I don't know what is musl and glibc exactly as I just started learning about C :) OpenBSD have own C standard library? And why glibc is nightmare?
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18:17 < cgnarne> just look at the mess
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18:32 < lts> Musl got a lot better once they started to support DNS over TCP (yes..)
18:33 < lts> This happened in 2023, before that only smol UDP DNS responses please
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18:48 < Minall> Hello OpenBSD Community!
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18:56 < mlxdy> Hello Minall 
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19:33 < Minall> I'm interested in OpenBSD Driver Development, so I want to understand the system internals. I know about the quality and manpages, and of course I checked the excelent talk about this on youtube, getting started with openbsd driver development. Now said talk is the only resource I see about it, and seems to touch topics that I will learn when developing and experimenting,
19:33 < Minall> Now, I can't find a specific example about it, I wonde rif I'm looking correctly. As in, talks about navigating the source code better, how the arquitecture is, autoconf of course and how to experiment around
19:34 < Minall> mlxdy: o/
19:35 < thrig> https://www.openbsd.org/events.html might lead to various not-video resources
19:39 < Minall> Thanks, i'll take a look\
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19:39 < Minall> Gotta go!, prob will be back later. thanks
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21:09 < seninha> Has a recent pkg_add -u broke mouse-wheel scrolling on (ungoogled-)chromium for you?
21:09 < seninha> (on -current)
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 06 00:00:08 2026