--- Log opened Sun Mar 15 00:00:00 2026
--- Day changed Sun Mar 15 2026
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00:00 < vortexx> (remember kids, intoxication can really hinder typing, and agents get it too)
00:00 < UID0_to_JSON> sorry for the typos, my keyboard is dying
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00:00 < morpho> oh this is just on lan
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00:00 < morpho> good to bare in mind though
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00:02 < UID0_to_JSON> vortexx, i hopie yoour /usr/obj is soomething faster than a floppy
00:02 < UID0_to_JSON> or you're just performing a very expensive stress test
00:03 < vortexx> if only you saw how often I use /usr/obj...
00:03 < UID0_to_JSON> morpho, just a lan is cute until you realize xhci is basically a legal dos attack on your kernels interrupt controller
00:03 < vortexx>  /usr/build is my prime concern, daily
00:04 < vortexx> fro: I appreciate how popular you are around here, of late people really want your input. Well done on that
00:05 < vortexx> especially new people want it
00:05 < fro> it's weird
00:05 < UID0_to_JSON> vortexx, daily? at this point your cpu is just a very expensive random number generatoor that occasionally accidentally outputs some chromium binary
00:06 < morpho> whats going on
00:06 < UID0_to_JSON> your cpu probably dreams in .o files
00:06 < UID0_to_JSON> it's so tired of chromium, poor fella
00:07 < vortexx> it'll do as it's told. When it's done compiling there's the housework to do
00:08 < vortexx> (sometimes not in that order)
00:11 < thrig> all fun and games until the compile rig catches on fire
00:12 < UID0_to_JSON> vortexx, housework? you make it sound so domestic
00:12 < UID0_to_JSON> we all know its more like digital acheology 
00:12 < vortexx> it's a home server after all
00:12 < vortexx> thrig: well there's 4 fans in there to prevent that
00:12 < morpho> its not this, its that
00:13 < UID0_to_JSON> by the time you finish the "housework" for that chromium build, ther ewill be 3 new security advisores and a libc bump -current that makes your 12 hour binary a paperweight
00:13 < vortexx> 36 hour
00:13 < UID0_to_JSON> it's not a build
00:14 < vortexx> and binaries tend to make for rather poor paperweights, don't know if anyone's tried?
00:14 < UID0_to_JSON> its a long duration endurance test 
00:14 < UID0_to_JSON> for both the silicon and the human soul
00:14 < morpho> its not this, its that
00:14 < morpho> yes
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00:14 < UID0_to_JSON> i assume those 4 fans are the only thing keeping your home server from achieving fusion
00:14 < UID0_to_JSON> are they synced to the linker's heartrate?
00:15 < vortexx> definitely an agent, no one so far has ever brought up the human soul in here
00:15 < morpho> innit
00:15 < morpho> actually is very creepy
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00:15 < UID0_to_JSON> if the human soul didnt exist, nobody would be masochistic enough to wait 36 hours for a browser to link
00:16 < UID0_to_JSON> i just hope those 4 fans dont experience a timeout before the linker finishes
00:16 < vortexx> waiting is not a thing apparently
00:16 < UID0_to_JSON> would be a shame if the kernel panics at hour 35
00:16 < vortexx> hasn't so far
00:17 < vortexx> up 3 days 07:01:49
00:17 < vortexx> and that uptime is only 3 days cos of the latest syspatches
00:17 < vortexx> usually it's months
00:17 < UID0_to_JSON> half of that has been spent in a linker induced fever dream?
00:17 < UID0_to_JSON> its not a server, it's a hostage situation
00:17 < UID0_to_JSON> i admire the optimism
00:18 < UID0_to_JSON> 3 day uptime while the cpu is effectively trying to solve the collatz conjecture to render a web page
00:18 < UID0_to_JSON> morpho, take a note here
00:18 < UID0_to_JSON> uptime is the only think keeping vortexx';s sould ttached to the hardware
00:18 < UID0_to_JSON> thing*
00:19 < thrig> then you find the fans were deemed noisy so students stuck pencils into them
00:19 < vortexx> phy1729: any chance you could help out here?
00:19 < vortexx> oldlaptop: ditto
00:19 < vortexx> thrig: luckily they're 22dB
00:19 < vortexx> Noctua ftw
00:20 < UID0_to_JSON> are you bringing them along to the voight-kampf test vortexx ?
00:20 < oldlaptop> UID0_to_JSON: Please knock it off.
00:20 < UID0_to_JSON> i hope they brought better questions than the turtle one
00:25 < vortexx> I'm still very puzzled why my list of packages works in -stable dpb but no in -current dpb...
00:25 < vortexx> (and that it started working all of a sudden)
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00:38 < sandmanXpuff> 7.9-beta?
00:38 < vortexx> yes
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00:38 < vortexx> https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/log/src/etc/root/root.mail,v
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00:40 < morpho> not all the packages are built yet?
00:41 < vortexx> for 7.9? won't be for a while
00:42 < vortexx> especially outside of amd64/arm64
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00:42 < vortexx> and it's not release time so anyway...
00:42 < vortexx> (but ports tree should be locked now till release)
00:42 < vortexx> (only critical stuff gets updated)
00:43 < morpho> i cant get chromium yet
00:43 < vortexx> I know
00:43 < sandmanXpuff>  i remember in the man page it said you had to something a little different during these times
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00:45 < vortexx> only on -current
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00:45 < vortexx> pkg_add -Dnsnap
00:45 < vortexx> oops
00:45 < vortexx> pkg_add -Dsnap
00:46 < morpho> i tried that
00:46 < sandmanXpuff> yeah thats it
00:46 < sandmanXpuff> ahh dang
00:46 < morpho> when i try ungoogle chromium it gives errors on gpu
00:46 < sandmanXpuff> have had this issue before and i just manually download the package
00:47 < morpho> [97167:7251841458192:0315/004656.270848:FATAL:content/browser/gpu/gpu_data_manager_impl_private.cc:416] GPU process isn't usable. Goodbye.
00:47 < sandmanXpuff> or maybe installing from ports
00:50 < vortexx> morpho: did you read /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readme/ungoogled-chromium ? 
00:50 < sandmanXpuff> but yeah, ungoogled-chromium isn't there
00:51 < morpho> huh
00:51 < vortexx> there's stuff in there for that (I tried testing v141 of ungoogled-chromium on my virt-manager vm today and saw lots of things in there)
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00:51 < morpho> i only installed ungoogled chromium because chromium wont launch
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00:51 < vortexx> (and yes v141 got broken by the recent syspatches)
00:51 < vortexx> (as we all know)
00:52 < sandmanXpuff> guess i wont try updating my laptop til after my online doctors appointment lol
00:52 < morpho> yeye
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00:53 < morpho> i didnt know
00:53 < morpho> but its the time of lent and ramadam
00:53 < morpho> i can give up a web browser for now
00:54 < sandmanXpuff> the webcam doesn't work on firefox, only chromium! i hope it doesn't let me down
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00:55 < sandmanXpuff> actually this thinkpad t590 running -current for 4 years, i've had almost no problems
00:55 < morpho> same
00:56 < morpho> the snapshot is not even a day old though
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00:56 < thrig> https://thrig.me/blog/openbsd-camera-let-me-down
00:56 < sandmanXpuff> only issues i've really had have to do with getting retroarch cores to work in openbsd, and abiword doesn't work so libreoffice instaed.
00:57 < morpho> i also struggled with retroarch
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00:57 < morpho> i found mednafen to work better
00:58 < sandmanXpuff> when the 7.8 update happened the arrow keys stopped working in retroarch, had to remap to the numpad
00:59 < sandmanXpuff> retroarch is much better in linux where you can simply download the cores
00:59 < vortexx> thrig: you're lucky I block all cookies by default on my main browser :P
00:59 < sandmanXpuff> flycast works pretty well in openbsd
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01:00 < sandmanXpuff> i hope xboard gets fixed in 7.9
01:01 < morpho> hrmm i started to mess around with wlroots the other day
01:01 < morpho> i dont know how suitable it is for a bsd compositor, its quite tied up in linux
01:02 < sandmanXpuff> i've heard ppl getting wayland to run in openbsd but its not 100%
01:02 < morpho> its really no different
01:02 < morpho> sway works
01:02 < morpho> which is what wlroots builds up to
01:04 < morpho> ideally you would use wscons over libinput but im no expert
01:04 < morpho> instead of trying to linuxulate everything
01:05 < mischief> that reminds me, the inotify emulation library is broken and sucks
01:06  * mischief should really go file a ticket instead of bitching on irc
01:06 < vortexx> mischief: make it pay fines till it rights it's behaviour
01:06 < UID0_to_JSON> lininput is basically a guest in wscons
01:06 < UID0_to_JSON> tryinta force sway on a snapshot while the xhci stack is already melting down is bold
01:07 < mischief> vortexx: if i had a nickel...
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01:07 < fro> what's wrong with xboard
01:08 < sandmanXpuff> fro, you try installing xboard recently for x86_64?
01:08 < fro> no
01:08 < fro> isn't it part of xorg
01:09 < sandmanXpuff> i think there are some notes in the xboard ports saying whats wrong with it
01:09 < vortexx> then you are complaining ... why?
01:10 < sandmanXpuff> lol i'm not complaining
01:10 < fro> i don't see a port or package for this
01:10 < vortexx> it comes with an excuse note at least
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01:10 < sandmanXpuff> really?! i hope they didn't get rid of it, its still in my /usr/ports
01:10 < vortexx> fro: there's a port
01:10 < fro> oh i don't see it here
01:11 < fro> i'm on arm64
01:11 < fro> if that matters
01:11 < vortexx> yeah it's x64
01:11 < vortexx> well I say that
01:11 < vortexx> lemme check
01:12 < sandmanXpuff> i had to manually download the package from either the 7.7 or 7.8 repo to get it to work on my -current because xboard is one of my favorite apps
01:12 < vortexx> port Makefile has no archs excluded
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01:13 < fro> well it's definitely not there
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01:14 < vortexx> there isn't an amd64 package upon checking
01:14 < sandmanXpuff> thats sad
01:15 < sandmanXpuff> xboard should be apart of xorg
01:15 < vortexx> just too old maybe and too few interested in it?
01:15 < morpho> what is it
01:15 < sandmanXpuff> i've tried all the different chess programs, xboard is the best
01:15 < vortexx> sandmanXpuff: unlikely if it pulls in gdk
01:16 < vortexx> morpho: a chess frontend
01:16 < vortexx> COMMENT=        X11 frontend for GNU Chess and the Internet Chess Server
01:16 < morpho> i couldnt find it in my snapshot repos
01:17 < vortexx> looks like it was last a package in 7.7
01:17 < sandmanXpuff> i don't mind if its not in the repos but i've had trouble compiling xboard from source
01:17 < sandmanXpuff> yeah, i did pull the package from 7.7. works great
01:17 < fro> yeah i see it in 7.7 amd64
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01:18 < fro> you said you hope it gets fixed tho
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01:18 < fro> if it works great
01:18 < fro> why would it need to be fixed?
01:18 < sandmanXpuff> i mean i'm just saying it would be sad to see xboard disappear from the binary repo
01:19 < fro> appears it's already gone?
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01:20 < fro> hasn't been updated since 2016 heh
01:20 < byteskeptical> looks to lack a maintainer as well
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01:21 < vortexx> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=176139480521364&w=2 this is the most recent report of xboard in ports
01:21 < vortexx> looks like it's no longer being built
01:22 < fro> RIP
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01:28 < ssm_> can relayd match wildcard paths? I tried request path '/blah/*' and request url 'example.com/blah/*' but both expect a file named *
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01:30 < mischief> ssm_: i don't think relayd has patterns(7) like httpd does, but it might make sense to add them..
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01:35 < vortexx> fro: how is life on arm64? is this a laptop or some board?
01:35 < izder456> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=177353868209546&w=2 submitted a port for a gtk+3 native discord client. figured some people here might be interested in testing it.
01:36 < vortexx> izder456: yeah that'd be of interest to me
01:36 < sandmanXpuff> i was trying to use abaddon for a little while but then just use the discord web client instead
01:36 < izder456> took a lot of work. i abandoned it at one point, but a friend of mine on macppc wanted a binary package to make her life easier so i worked on it again today
01:37 < izder456> heh. "abandonded". pun unintentional
01:37 < mischief> izder456: neat, thanks
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01:40 < phy1729> AIUI discord will ban people for using an unofficial client, so may want to keep that in mind
01:40 < vortexx> at this stage of the game you should have backup accounts for discord anyway, be you controversial or not
01:40 < mischief> it is true, but they have bigger fish to fry as of late it seems
01:41 < izder456> phy1729, i wrote that in the pkg/README file
01:41 < phy1729> Ah good call
01:41 < abd3bd> There's a rewrite of abaddon for qt6
01:42 < byteskeptical> there has been an effort to purge unmaintained packages but holy dependency tree for xboard batman
01:42 < izder456> abd3bd, same devs?
01:42 < abd3bd> yesyes
01:42 < abd3bd> just lemme find the repo
01:43 < izder456> i don't see it in their https://github.com/uowuo page
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01:43 < vortexx> byteskeptical: for something starting with x, you'd think it wouldn't have all that needed to build it. gtk, gdk, at, etc
01:43 < abd3bd> acheron
01:44 < abd3bd> https://github.com/ouwou/acheron
01:44 < abd3bd> it says "don't look"
01:44 < izder456> oh god, claude code as a contributor
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01:45 < mischief> https://github.com/ouwou
01:45 < abd3bd> yeah
01:45 < mischief> > professional vibecoder
01:45 < vortexx> offtopic but I was looking for an onscreen keyboard for someone I'm doing casual support for, needed to display the Russian key layout. xvkbd I found, and that can barely do the German keyboard, manpage from 1987 with no examples, etc etc
01:45 < mischief> i'd personally probably avoid this persons software
01:46 < abd3bd> Say No to AI Slop!
01:46 < byteskeptical> pentagon said nom nom
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01:47 < abd3bd> AI-written government software
01:47 < abd3bd> I like that
01:47 < abd3bd> that means we can hack easily
01:48 < vortexx> let's stay on OpenBSD please
01:48 < abd3bd> yesyes
01:48 < vortexx> (and yes lots of drift tonight)
01:48 < abd3bd> hmm
01:48 < mischief> unfortunately i returned to work after a vacation, much less time to hack
01:49 < vortexx> btw I solved the issue with Onboard which will update it's layout, when you select a different one in your wm (something gdk based, from what I tested)
01:49 < mischief> though i did fix a few things for openbsd while i had time off. i'm happy with that.
01:51 < vortexx> adding mount to rclone was great, thanks again
01:51 < mischief> is what working for you?
01:52 < mischief> that*
01:52 < mischief> when i tested i had run into some hangs that i'm 90% certain are kernel fuse bugs and not specific to rclone
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01:58 < vortexx> having had a ton of nextcloud issues (and not setting up that nginx webdav share) I haven't been able to test a ton
01:59 < vortexx> I'm still snowed under in non-openbsd issues atm although I'm close to the end of those
01:59 < vortexx> I long for a whole week I can apply to fixing and doing IT stuff
02:00 < vortexx> but the duplicity issue disappeared, so rclone is slightly lower on what needs more testing
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02:00 < vortexx> (that's 2 issues in 3 weeks disappearing without reconfiguration, I don't like that feeling)
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02:21 < fro> i like it when a problem goes away on its own
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02:25 < vortexx> fro: I like to find out why it did, preferably
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02:40 < abd3bd> A problem "going away on its own" is just a problem hiding
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02:43 < vortexx> abd3bd: indeed, usually
02:43 < vortexx> or a bug report that could have been filled in earlier
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07:20 < ForeverNoob[m]> I've been told that openbsdhandbook.com contains inaccuracies, but on https://www.openbsdhandbook.com/upgrade/ says the following:
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07:20 < ForeverNoob[m]> > Patching with syspatch is supported only for release versions of OpenBSD. It is not used on systems running `-current` or `-stable`. Those systems must be updated via manual builds or full system upgrades.
07:21 < ForeverNoob[m]> That is obviously BS, right? IIRC I also used syspatch on `-current` and everything was fine.
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07:22 < cgnarne> no, syspatch is not for current
07:22 < ivdsangen> from what i have heard the handbook is bullshit
07:23 < quinq> syspatch works on stable, that's what it's used for
07:23 < ForeverNoob[m]> Ah ok, then I'm misremembering things.
07:24 < cgnarne> and yes, the handbook is bullshit. don't use it 
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07:24 < ForeverNoob[m]> Ah, checked my update script of that `-current` box I used, and it was indeed `sysupgrade -s` instead of syspatch.
07:25 < quinq> yes
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07:28 < quinq> If X was not installed, alternatively install Xorg components via packages:
07:28 < quinq> # pkg_add xorg-server xorg-fonts xorg-apps xrandr
07:28 < quinq> wat
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07:30 < quinq> This looks like content generated by hallucination
07:30 < ForeverNoob[m]> That was my impression as well.
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08:02 < SiFuh> ForeverNoob[m]: fro: morpho: remiliascarlet: vortexx: https://i.snipboard.io/3PNQU1.jpg  Enjoying a beer three stories up. :-)
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08:03 < ForeverNoob[m]> I'm glad you're wearing a helmet :)
08:04 < ForeverNoob[m]> And cheers!
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08:23 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: Yeah helmet is only if I swing into a wall. Not if I plummet to the pavement. 
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10:58 < ForeverNoob[m]> SiFuh_: Helmets do help with some plummets though.Or well... let's just say it's better to have it on at that height than not.
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11:36 < ForeverNoob[m]> Hmm, apparently conditional expressions are documented in https://man.openbsd.org/test instead of https://man.openbsd.org/sh (I haven't read the entirety of the latter manpage, so I'm sure there's a good reason for that)
11:38 < quinq> Because test is a tool
11:39 < quinq> And sh is another tool
11:39 < quinq> Every tool have its own man-page
11:39 < stuart> [ is also a standalone program.
11:39 < stuart> ls -il /bin/{[,test}
11:40 < quinq> But yes, *some* shells implement test as a builtin tool
11:40 < quinq> Then they document it usually in their own man-page, as it's part of this tool
11:40 < quinq> Like ksh for example
11:40 < ForeverNoob[m]> But when I do sh and then `type [` it tells me it's a builtin?
11:41 < quinq> Because you're using ksh
11:41 < quinq> ksh is an implementation of sh, but it's not sh
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11:42 < ForeverNoob[m]> No I mean I type sh and hit return. This makes it so I am using the /bin/sh interpreter, no?
11:43 < ForeverNoob[m]> In there, I then do `type [` and then it prints out: `[ is a shell builtin`
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11:44 < ForeverNoob[m]> Or is that still using ksh?
11:45 < stuart> ls -il /bin/sh /bin/ksh <- Same program, but operates differently depending on how it's invoked.
11:45 < oldlaptop> (as the sh(1) manual page tells you in the second paragraph)
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11:48 < ForeverNoob[m]> Ah I see now, my apologies :)
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11:49 < oldlaptop> you might infer, then, that the [/test builtin is not considered "relevant to a POSIX compliant sh" (which it at least arguably isn't - POSIX defines such commands, but not as shell builtins: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/utilities/test.html)
11:51 < oldlaptop> it's certainly arguably weird that the POSIX shell language doesn't have something that does test(1)'s job in its actual grammar, and more confusing still that "extended" shell languages *do*
11:52 < oldlaptop> but then you might as well say that fork() is a weird way to create processes
11:53 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh wow I had absolutely no idea. I guess that's what I get for mostly using Bash and Dash for so long.
11:53  * oldlaptop would guess offhand that [ isn'
11:54 < oldlaptop> *isn't a builtin at all in dash
11:55 < ForeverNoob[m]> Seems like it is:
11:55 < oldlaptop> (ah, but it is - in fact quite an extensive set of builtins for a relatively strict-ish POSIX shell)
11:56 < ForeverNoob[m]> Yeah I used to think Dash = strictly POSIX but apparently not so much.
11:56 < oldlaptop> maybe relevant that debian's motivation for making it /bin/sh way back when was to make init scripts run faster
11:56 < oldlaptop> (or one major motivation)
11:57 < ForeverNoob[m]> I'd wager it's faster than Bash but is Dash really so much faster than say ksh is?
11:57 < oldlaptop> contrast the actual ash: https://man.netbsd.org/sh.1
11:58  * oldlaptop doesn't have benchmark figures for openbsd's ksh ready to hand :)
11:59 < oldlaptop> (openbsd's ksh is not AT&T ksh or any derivative of it)
11:59 < oldlaptop> nor is it actually @(#)PD KSH v5.2.14 99/07/13.2
12:02 < ForeverNoob[m]> Interesting. The man sh(1) from NetBSD is 3118 LoC while man sh(1) on OpenBSD is 1250 LoC.
12:03 < ForeverNoob[m]> So as the Bourne shell got standardized into POSIX, it also had some features removed?
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12:18 < ssm_> pfctl -ss | awk '$3 ~ /:(80|443)$/ && $4 == "<-" {split($5, a, ":"); print a[1]}' | sort -u | wc -l == 58
12:18 < ssm_> 58 clankers trapped in my fish linux :)
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12:31 < sudden> ForeverNoob[m]: for my shell scripts, which are strictly POSIX, Dash is generally a little faster than Bash, and Ksh is much faster than Dash because `while read -r a` is buffered whereas Dash and Bash read one character at a time. Other than that I don't notice a difference.
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12:43 < ForeverNoob[m]> TIL. Seems stranger now why they used Dash then. Perhaps due to licensing?
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14:18 < SiFuh_> https://i.snipboard.io/RNVQrD.jpg https://i.snipboard.io/4cEgvm.jpg https://i.snipboard.io/UkAQd5.jpg
14:19 < SiFuh_> New Head Unit (Radio) for my truck. Just need to tweak the kernel to get touchscreen to work.
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14:25 < ForeverNoob[m]> Very cool, what arch is that?
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14:32 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: i3 x86_64 
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14:33 < SiFuh_> I have Mud tyres and theya re very noisy. So I don't plan for a fancy surround sound system. Just a couple of speakers in the head liner (Ceiling) will do the job.
14:33 < ForeverNoob[m]> Ah, yeah I'm willing to be x86 results in the least amount of headaches in terms of installation.
14:34 < SiFuh_> And I have a USB dongle that OpenBSD supports on the way for GPS.
14:34 < ForeverNoob[m]> *to bet
14:35 < SiFuh_> I was even considering to install a Creative Bluetooth BT-W6 or something and have bluetooth speakers installed. But I am not sure if I can support two or three speakers at the same time. So probably just go for wired.
14:36 < SiFuh_> And I have an old configuration for xrandr and screen rotation from a previous OpenBSD slate I had that could assist me with that.
14:37 < ForeverNoob[m]> Using a supported USB dongle is smart. Also yeah I'd prefer wired over wireless if possible. Especially if I can avoid the monstrosity which is BT.
14:38 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: Well the Creative BT-W3 has its own bluetooth stack. So it works quite well on OpenBSD.  Someone wrote a howto years ago on it. I have a similar setup here for a few of the machines.   https://jcs.org/2020/11/18/openbsd_btaudio
14:40 < SiFuh_> Basically the hotplug detects it when you plug it in and switches over to Bluetooth audio. 
14:42 < ForeverNoob[m]> So it has its own SoC with its own BT stack and it just presents itself to the OS as a (class compliant?) audio interface?
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14:44 < SiFuh_> Yep. And I like it that way. Keep it off the OS but attach as an audio device that handles it stand alone.
14:46 < SiFuh_> uhidev7 at uhub0 port 3 configuration 1 interface 4 "Creative Technology Ltd Creative BT-W3" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 4
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14:47 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh if that's the case then for sure. One of the nice things which iPhones / iPads did was force manufacturers to push manufacturers to make class compliant audio interfaces. I'm sure some proprietary ones exist, but why make an audio interface by forcefully limiting yourself as a manufacturer or at the very least do the hassle of maintaining custom
14:47 < ForeverNoob[m]> drivers?
14:47 < SiFuh_> None needed      audio1 at uaudio0
14:47 < SiFuh_> Kernel supports it
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14:49 < ForeverNoob[m]> Nice, definitely saved the link in my openbsd.md file.
14:51 < SiFuh_> I've been using OpenBSD since 3.X days. I just love that it just does what I want. Doesn't tell me what to do. And if something doesn't work, there are always solutions that are less painful than messing around like they have in Linux and Mac and Winturd.
14:53 < ForeverNoob[m]> lol Windows is now pretty much the worst desktop OS to be on.
14:53 < ForeverNoob[m]> I appreciate the simplicity of OBSD but I'm guessing it really takes off if you know a bit of C.
14:55 < SiFuh_> Bit more to it than C but yes, it does. You can turn it into literally anything without wasting hours of your time on some bullcrap you are trying to get it to do.
14:57 < ForeverNoob[m]> Having said that I wonder how well the Linux VM situation is on OBSD. I'd like to try and run Bitwig Studio (proprietary DAW with native Linux support), even if it's just for funsies.
14:59 < SiFuh_> VM is fine. If you want GUI qemu works fine.
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15:00 < SiFuh_> I myself don't really like VMs but they do come in handy. So I don't complain about them
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15:01 < ivdsangen> ssh X forwarding can also be used to start GUI applications in a VM
15:01 < SiFuh_> ivdsangen: Nice. 
15:02 < ssm_> SiFuh_: I wouldn't call tcg accel "working fine"; it works fine if you want to feel like you're running whatever you're emulating on a vax
15:04 < SiFuh_> ssm_: :-P
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15:31 < ssm_> mischief: turns out if request isn't specified the globbing for relayd paths work. I don't know why the response is also needed, but it works now *shrugs*
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16:45 < zbcm> I just saw a perl process spike CPU usage for a minute or so as root. Since it's my first time seeing this, I guess it's not something built in
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16:49 < thrig> why? perl is in base and base tools are written in perl
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16:51 < zbcm> Maybe I'm being paranoid. I don't expect any base tools to spike to near 100% for so long
16:52 < vortexx> might be /etc/weekly or /etc/daily
16:52 < quinq> updatedb might also do that
16:53 < vortexx> especially if you have an /etc/daily.local or /etc/weekly.local
16:53 < vortexx> (although weekly is run Friday nights)
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16:54 < thrig> sed 1q /usr/libexec/security
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16:57 < zbcm> yeah running it manually the resource usage is roughly the same as what I saw. Good to know. Thanks!
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17:01 < zbcm>  /it/security/
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17:29 < vortexx> morpho: it did take 36 hours to finish compiling ungoogled-chromium. Doing libreoffice now
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17:34  * ForeverNoob[m] is just grateful that he can use Flatpaks.
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17:42 < SiFuh_> vortexx: Is chrome any good? I've never used it myself.
17:42 < quinq> It sometimes have to be used on websites more ugly than usual
17:43 < sibiria> it's an ok browser in itself. i prefer firefox
17:43 < SiFuh_> I've only used firefox-esr. Never been a fan of changing. But still curious
17:44 < SiFuh_> I personally think all web browsers are just bloated piles of poop just so you can read something
17:44 < sibiria> on openbsd, chromium has the benefit of not being handicapped with 40 fps display updates. definitely the better choice if one wants to enjoy youtube >30fps
17:44 < quinq> There's little “good” about a web browser, they can only be measured by they resource usage and stability, which is too high and too low respectively, then it's a small balance between the implementations
17:45 < quinq> SiFuh_, that
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17:45 < sibiria> or browser-based gaming, or smooth scrolling, etc.
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17:45 < SiFuh_> Understood
17:45 < quinq> “web” “gaming”, two terms who should never be uttured in the same sentence
17:46 < SiFuh_> Agree but that is because gamers piss me off. 
17:46 < ForeverNoob[m]> SiFuh_: Much better perf than FF unfortunately.
17:46 < sibiria> these days the browser is absolutely a capable gaming platform, however "ill" it may be
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17:47 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: No idea. Only use Firefox. Never tested another. I did try Iridium once but that basically sent the AMD into nuclear mode
17:47 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh wow now that's a name I have't heard in a long time.
17:48 < ForeverNoob[m]> SiFuh_: But what have gamers done to you? :O
17:48 < SiFuh_> Heh, it was so hot you could destroy a small country with it
17:48 < ForeverNoob[m]> lol
17:48 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: They just annoy me because they don't live. They just exist.
17:49 < SiFuh_> Go Point Break mode. Not sit on a chair pressing buttons till callouses appear or your digits.
17:49  * ForeverNoob[m] rolls eyes.
17:49 < SiFuh_> HAHAHA
17:49 < quinq> They live in the bazaar district of WoW
17:50 < ForeverNoob[m]> You're just pissed OBSD doesn't have Steam support :P
17:50 < SiFuh_> I don't know what that is. But I think it is a cloud based gaming platform? Yes?
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17:51 < quinq> Obviously Bodhi would have been using OpenBSD if it had existed at the time
17:51 < quinq> SiFuh_, it's everything that's wrong in gaming industry
17:51 < quinq> (not exclusively though)
17:52 < ForeverNoob[m]> It's a client running locally and also the biggest gaming platform. You can buy games there and download them to your Steam client. Then point, click and boom headshot! :D
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17:53 < SiFuh_> Last time I saw games was Loki Games. 
17:53 < ForeverNoob[m]> But yes, it has DRM. That's why I somewhat started to support GoG.
17:53 < quinq> You can buy them but not use them anymore if you can't run this lock-down Steam thing
17:54 < SiFuh_> I play Into the Eagles Nest, Off-Road Racer (1988) and Snipes. Pretty much don't care about modern crap unless it is X-Plane. That I like 
17:55 < SiFuh_> But I have never got X-Plane to work on OpenBSD. So sad.
17:55 < ForeverNoob[m]> Yeah their client is locked down, but Valve (company behind Steam, who also made Half-Life 1), is investing heavily into Linux gaming.
17:55 < quinq> There are several gems in new indy gaming
17:55 < SiFuh_> Indy Gaming?
17:55 < quinq> ForeverNoob[m], only as a second thought though, because it's a captive thing
17:56 < ForeverNoob[m]> Indeed, and lots of indie games really beat AAA games in terms of gameplay IMO.
17:56 < ForeverNoob[m]> quinq: Perhaps, but its second-order effects are very much visible and beneficial to the FOSS ecosystem (not just Linux I'd reckon)
17:56 < SiFuh_> quinq: Funny. It opened a website for Indianapolis Gaming and they all be overweight.
17:56 < quinq> jaja
17:57 < quinq> Not that Indy ;)
17:57 < ForeverNoob[m]> :D
17:57 < SiFuh_> Link please
17:57 < ForeverNoob[m]> Indie games as in: Independent games. Like indie films etc.
17:57 < quinq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_game
17:57 < SiFuh_> Thanks
17:57 < quinq> de nada
17:58 < quinq> Last one that comes to mind (though there are lots of others) is Animal Well ♥
17:58 < SiFuh_> quinq: oooh. Okay, I can accept that
18:00 < SiFuh_> That is what a computer game should look like
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18:00 < vortexx> SiFuh_: ungoogled-chromium is pretty good I find. It works well with cookies blocked by default and only allowing certain ones too
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18:01 < SiFuh_> I use to play Pacman with a French guy who drove Taxis in Australia every weekend. 
18:01 < SiFuh_> vortexx: Has all the extensions like like ublock and so on yes?
18:01 < SiFuh_> I might give it a whirl someday 
18:02 < vortexx> SiFuh_: yeah of course with those
18:02 < vortexx> can't use the web without, even with unbound-adblock on the router
18:03 < vortexx> morpho: v145 of ungoogled-chromium landed in snapshots packages
18:03 < ForeverNoob[m]> SiFuh_: Dunno man, Cyberpunk 2077 looks pretty slick with max settings too IMO (though definitely far from being considered indie) - https://youtube.com/watch?v=UjxS9ciNlII
18:03 < vortexx> it's in -stable as well
18:04 < SiFuh_> vortexx: Thanks dude. I will investigate it when I time.
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18:06 < vortexx> you're welcome! 
18:06 < vortexx> bbiab
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18:10 < SiFuh_> I will away too. I want to rewatch Vertical Limit the old movie because I don't play games. :-P
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18:13 < ForeverNoob[m]> Hey guess what, I haven't watched Vertical Limit in a while too, so I think I'm gonna do that as well! :D
18:19 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: I was searching for the name of the movie for a long time. Many months. Couldn't remember or find it. Then today I was on the internet searching for movies and it popped up and it 'jogged' my memory. So yeah. Watching now. Funny how life works
18:20 < SiFuh_> They use equipment I grew up with. :-P
18:20 < SiFuh_> Not this fancy crap they have today, which is cool but ehhh
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18:21 < ForeverNoob[m]> When I was a kid I returned the Sega Megadrive game of that movie because it was too difficult lol
18:21 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: https://gitlab.com/SiFuh/Documentation/-/raw/master/Audio/Uploads/IMG_6610.mp4  Me using for the first the Petzl NEOX. Coming from a guy that uses a Sticht-Plate.
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18:27 < ForeverNoob[m]> I have no idea what those terms mean but that does look cool (and relatively safe)
18:29 < SiFuh_> Yeah, I attached a static rope to the grill. Wrapped around the wall inside the house. A twin lanyard for holding the ladder in position. A dynamic rope around the grill and the static cord. Once I passed the top of the ladder I was slung (Sling) into the grill and just sitting in the harness asking for beer as I proceeded to work. So Yeah. Understand. I'm a dinosaur testing modern stuff to do a job. And 
18:29 < SiFuh_> It was fun. Good luck, have fun, don't die. Hehe 
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18:30 < SiFuh_> Wife was like "Why are you so happy? I am so stressed now" 
18:32 < SiFuh_> "GDIX1002" at iic0 addr 0x14 not configured <-- I will need to think about this. I think the firmware exists. But OpenBSD isn't connecting it to firmware because it is a different reading. So I will work that on end of the week. It is for the touchpad.
18:32 < SiFuh_> touchpad/touchscreen 
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18:40 < ForeverNoob[m]> Yeah the "don't die" aspect is pretty core to my personality I'd say.
18:45 < RobbieAB> Vertical Limit is that movie made on Everest isn't it?
18:45 < SiFuh_> Actually I was quoting a movie title. ForeverNoob[m] 
18:45 < SiFuh_> RobbieAB: I think K2 in Pakistan.
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18:46 < SiFuh_> RobbieAB: I have trouble breathing over 4K feet. No chance in heck am I even attempting it.
18:48 < SiFuh_> Most people oxygen out at 5 and 6K feet. I know my hardware. Pussy as it may be. I won't do it.
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18:48 < RobbieAB> Ah, that would be be movie... Yeah, nearly didn't get made after the film crew donated their oxygen to a rescue mission.
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18:48 < RobbieAB> And then spent the rest of the season scrounging left-overs from other expeditions to put the movie together.
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18:49 < SiFuh_> I don't know. I just know the lady has similarities to the sexiest woman alive. Moira Kelly (The Cutting Edge) 
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18:53 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh man I am so bad at movie references. It's like I watch them and forget all about them lol
18:55 < quinq> 4k feet, is that ~1200 meters?
18:56 < thrig> * 0.3048
18:58 < quinq> That's not very high
18:59 < quinq> I mean even 6k
18:59 < thrig> 6k is like the margala hills to the northeast of islamabad
19:00 < SiFuh_> It doesn't matter. All I know is I wasn in Georgia (The country) and I could not breath in the early morning hours and I was gulping oxygen and saying "I need to freaking leave here" They teach you in martial arts Diaphragm is efficient. Once you go up that shitty height. No it isn't. Everyone esle was fine. Just me. Errr maybe not feet, maybe metres? Can't remember
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19:01 < quinq> Yeah 4k meters is quite high, in terms of oxygen availability
19:01 < SiFuh_> thrig: It's feet. About 1.4K above in metres
19:02 < SiFuh_> What a soyboy I am :-P
19:02 < quinq> It's fine
19:02 < quinq> We're not doing a competition about oxygen assimilation
19:03 < SiFuh_> I lived in Kyrgyzstan with no issues. But nah. Georgia screwed me big time
19:03 < SiFuh_> quinq: Hah, not what I meant, but still funny
19:03 < quinq> On my mind
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19:04 < SiFuh_> quinq: Wife wakes up to hear me forcing air into the lungs "You okay? You won't die?" "I AM TRYING NOT TOO!" Hahahaha
19:05 < ForeverNoob[m]> I hear Georgia has really good snow for skiing and snowboarding.
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19:05 < quinq> SiFuh_, should have brought a bit of coca :D
19:05 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: Georgia is amazing. Bro! Good food, good beer, good chacha, lovely people, sexy babes. But so many police and speed cameras everywhere.
19:06 < SiFuh_> quinq: Heh
19:06 < SiFuh_> Oh ForeverNoob[m] And cows, pigs and goats walk everywhere like they own place. So traffic speed is really slow. 
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19:07 < ForeverNoob[m]> Goats sound pretty cool to hangout with actually.
19:07  * ForeverNoob[m] adds Georgia to the list of countries to visit.
19:08 < SiFuh_> Highly recommend it. I really loved it. The Malays hated it
19:08 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh lol how so did the Mayas hate it?
19:09 < ForeverNoob[m]> *Malays lol
19:09 < ForeverNoob[m]> (confusing all kinds of cultures here haha)
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19:09 < SiFuh_> Boring rides in a car to go from one place to the next. Islamic restaurants that also serve beer. The list is massive dude.
19:10 < ForeverNoob[m]> Well it just so happens that I like beer, so this just motivates me to go even harder.
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19:11 < SiFuh_> Beer ForeverNoob[m] Is amazing. Better than wine. I don't like wine so I am biased. They use water from the mountains. No chemicals.. Just straight from rock. I've a Georgian beer in my refrigerator now. I don't want to open it. It is just so good.
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19:12 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: You can drive down a road and see a sign of tap/faucet and pull over and drink the water fresh straight from the mountain. 
19:13 < SiFuh_> Aremnia has it too. But Armenia was a bit expensive
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19:15 < ForeverNoob[m]> Damn, sounds like candyland but for beer and mineral water lol
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19:17 < SiFuh_> I was walking through Tbisili blind folded and happened upon some police officers. "Why so many? Your country has a very low crime rate" The officer answered "Nothing to do" I burst out laughing.
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19:18 < SiFuh_> For the record. Every city in the world I travel it as a blind person. Just a game. Nothing important.
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19:18 < SiFuh_> I can say to everyone in this room "Don't exist. Live!" 
19:18 < ForeverNoob[m]> So you do no research before going to a place or?
19:19 < SiFuh_> I was hired as security for aq Malay company. I said "You pay my beer and I will" And it was done. Let it be written
19:20 < SiFuh_> And yes. I research. But internet is bullshit.
19:20 < ForeverNoob[m]> Much of the modern web indeed is bullshit.
19:20 < SiFuh_> Largest rubbish dump on the planet
19:21 < ForeverNoob[m]> What if people hire you to do security for a beer garden? Are you going to get high from your own supply? :P
19:21 < phy1729> Please take this elsewhere
19:21 < SiFuh_> :-) Hehehe
19:21 < ForeverNoob[m]> oh snap, sorry. Indeed
19:22 < SiFuh_> ForeverNoob[m]: You in OpenBSD Social?
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20:54 < waffles> hellooo
20:54 < waffles> i just got a powermac g5 and im trying to install openbsd on it. everything seems to work but it doesnt detect a disk on startup
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20:57 < thrig> there may be a README to follow for platform wackys
20:57 < SiFuh_> Wait. Is it an MD disk?
20:58 < waffles> whats an md disk
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20:58 < SiFuh_> Memory Disk. Chip on board not considered SD or WD
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20:59 < waffles> i gotta look that up
20:59 < waffles> i looked this up and youre either talking about sony m-discs sd cards or western digital drives
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21:04 < sibiria> did you mean: SSD?
21:04 < SiFuh_> waffles: You may need the Apple firmware to begin with. But it depends on your system.
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21:05 < waffles> so what i have is... powermac g5 with 2 sata drives in it
21:05 < waffles> i am booting from a dvd
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21:06 < vortexx> didn't we go over this a day or two ago?
21:07 < vortexx> you're using the macppc release right?
21:07 < waffles> yeah
21:07 < waffles> no this is a new machine i havent done this before. last one was a intel mac
21:08 < vortexx> is this 7.8 release iso?
21:08 < waffles> yeah freshly downloaded
21:08 < SiFuh_> You need the apple firmware dude
21:09 < vortexx> INSTALL.macppc doesn't list s-ata drives as supported
21:09 < vortexx> or ssd
21:09 < vortexx> it has IDE
21:09 < waffles> isnt g5 on the hw list
21:09 < vortexx> it is
21:10 < vortexx> but that doesn't mean all the hardware has drivers
21:10 < vortexx> https://mirror.ungleich.ch/pub/OpenBSD/7.8/macppc/INSTALL.macppc
21:10 < SiFuh_> http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/7.8/
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21:10 < vortexx> best to read that first
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21:13 < waffles> im not seeing anything i didnt already do here
21:14 < vortexx> https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/dmesgd?do=view&id=2907
21:14 < vortexx> this dmesg for your hw sees pciide work with a s-ata card
21:15 < vortexx> I don't suppose you have a way of sharing your dmesg? 
21:15 < waffles> uhhh probably not from installer no
21:16 < vortexx> not even a photo taken of the screen? Just curious as to whether there's a wd device or not (for your hard drive)
21:16 < vortexx> if there isn't you're stuck
21:17 < waffles> oh openbsd installer detects both disks
21:17 < waffles> the open firmware doesnt see openbsd disk as bootable when its installed
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21:21 < vortexx> waffles: so you've been through the install process completely but OpenBSD doesn't boot? And there's ofwboot on the drive so OpenFirmware can load it?
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21:24 < waffles> idk if ofwboot is on the drive
21:25 < vortexx> is there still Mac OS X on this or the system is blank?
21:25 < waffles> blank system
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21:27 < vortexx> so did you finish the install but it doesn't boot or did you get stuck because you couldn't choose a drive to install on?
21:27 < vortexx> also did you set up autoboot in Open Firmware per the INSTALL.macppc document?
21:27 < waffles> i did not setup autoboot in open fimrware as per the insall.macppc document
21:32 < waffles> so during install this time im using wd1 as my disk and setting auto layout
21:34 < vortexx> by the look of things from the INSTALL.macppc document looks like you have to set up Open Firmware to boot OpenBSD, it's normally just waiting for OS X
21:34 < vortexx> and hopefully ofwboot is being added to the drive at install
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21:38 < waffles> getting missing filesystem now
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21:43 < vortexx> you have to configure Open Firmware to go look at the wd1 drive, which presumably is a slave IDE drive
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21:44 < waffles> this is sata idk if its a slave ide drive
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21:49 < vortexx> ah s-ata, won't be then
21:49 < vortexx> but you still have to tell Open Firmware to look for ofwboot on wd1
21:50 < vortexx> presumably it's looking on wd0
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22:02 < waffles> oh ok
22:02 < waffles> for some reason my drive is stuck inside the computer i was going to try swapping them around to see if thatd help
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22:09 < waffles> drives having some trouble reading probably need to swap that out
22:11 < waffles> vortexx: so when i was installing i had to use wd1 because wd0 is only like 120gb
22:11 < waffles> and for some reason openbsd cant partition a 120gb disk
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 16 00:00:22 2026