--- Log opened Tue Mar 17 00:00:23 2026
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10:05 < lts> I remember there was once discussion here about ! operator being dangerous in pf.conf when used twice in same rule. Something about it creating two rules which never match, and end up with nothing blocked. However, man 5 pf.conf has this example rule: "pass in proto tcp from 10.0.0.0/8 port >= 1024 to ! 10.1.2.3 port != ssh"
10:05 < lts> Is "!=" an exception to this?
10:08 < IcePic> lts: one can end up with "block everything that is not A" and "block everything that is not B" and those two will match everything (if A and B is different) and hence block everything
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10:09 < IcePic> especially if you have a list/macro ”{ A, B }" so that "block in from $list-of-A-B to .." 
10:09 < IcePic> it turns into two rules, which block all
10:10 < lts> Thanks for clarification. What makes the man page example not cause that?
10:11 < IcePic> its just an effect of boolean logic of "not-A AND not-B" 
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10:14 < IcePic> or set theory or what area is about validating ANDed blocks of things matching not-A in one rule with not-B in the next rule
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11:18 < thrig> blocking everything is however good security
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11:30 < vortexx> thrig: even better, unplug the router. Nothing ever gets through then. Problem solved! (TM)
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13:24 < beauby> Any common conventions/recommendations regarding disk layout for a TFTP+HTTP server (providing netboot/install media)? More specifically, are there downsides to put every served artifact somewhere under /var?
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13:26 < mischief> should be fine. i use /var/tftp.
13:27 < vortexx>  /var is fine, just make it big enough (or swap /home for /var in /etc/fstab after backing up)
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13:58 < beauby> Thanks!
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19:34 < Bradipo> Does sshd support S/Key ?
19:35 < Bradipo> I looked at login_skey(8) and don't see anything specifically mentioned.
19:35 < Bradipo> I suppose ftpd(8) supports it, but I would rather use sftp(1).
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19:37 < Bradipo> Ahh, it seems to be tucked away behind keyboard-interactive.
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20:06 < vortexx> https://www.kmx.io/static/patches/OpenBSD-current-ext4fs.diff someone send it an ext4fs support patch
20:07 < vortexx> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177377708119910&w=2
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20:33 < Bradipo> Hmm, so even after running skeyinit I don't seem to be able to get SSH to play nicely with it.
20:33 < Bradipo> I have: AuthenticationMethods password,keyboard-interactive:skey
20:34 < Bradipo> I get prompted for a password, but then it just drops the connection.
20:34 < Bradipo> Permission denied (keyboard-interactive). Connection closed
20:35 < Bradipo> Didn't even bother asking me for the next S/Key.
20:35 < Bradipo> Or rather, the next OTP.
20:39 < uwharrie> does anything need to be set in login.conf?
20:39 < Bradipo> I looked at that...
20:40 < Bradipo> The default class has skey enabled.
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20:40 < Bradipo> auth-defaults:auth=passwd,skey:
20:40 < Bradipo> And that is included in the "default:" class.
20:42 < Bradipo> Furthermore, I get no errors anywhere that I can see...
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20:42 < Bradipo> I even bumped LogLevel to DEBUG3 in sshd_config.
20:42 < Bradipo> I suppose I could run sshd with -d...
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20:47 < UID0_to_JSON> Bradipo, check binary linkage
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20:52 < Bradipo> UID0_to_JSON: Hmm, I don't see any linkage for skey in /usr/sbin/sshd...
20:52 < Bradipo> So this is a compile-time feature?
20:53 < uwharrie> the man page only make mention of bsdauth and pam as valid keyboard-interactive devices
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20:55 < Bradipo> It does?
20:55 < Bradipo> Not in my m an page...
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20:56 < Bradipo> If you looka t AuthenticationMethods it lists skey.
20:56 < uwharrie> "For keyboard interactive authentication it is also possible to restrict authentication to a specific device by appending a colon followed by the device identifier bsdauth or pam."
20:56 < Bradipo> Interesting, so it's there in 7.8...
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20:57 < Bradipo> https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-7.8/sshd_config
20:57 < Bradipo> Sorry, I meant: https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-7.8/sshd_config#AuthenticationMethods
20:57 < ForeverNoob[m]> Welp, it became painfully obvious that while OpenBSD is secure by default against remote attackers, it doesn't seem to be exactly secure against an unexpected reboot :(
20:57 < UID0_to_JSON> you guys are looking at two different things
20:57 < Bradipo> That specifically mentions skey...
20:57 < Bradipo> But I guess it has been removed.
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20:57 < Bradipo> Maybe it was removed because it wasn't actually working.
20:57 < UID0_to_JSON> <Bradipo> That specifically mentions skey...
20:57 < UID0_to_JSON> <Bradipo> But I guess it has been removed.
20:57 < UID0_to_JSON> but openbsd-current has been purging skey from base
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20:58 < UID0_to_JSON> it is being relegated to ports
20:58 < UID0_to_JSON> check your binary again
20:58 < Bradipo> Why did you change it in some way since the last time I checked it?
20:58 < UID0_to_JSON> if nm /usr/sbin/sshd | grekp skey is empty, the string in your config is a nop sshd sees the requirement looks for the internal handler finds nada and fails the auth chain
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20:58 < UID0_to_JSON> sshd -vv 2>&1 | grep -i skey
20:59 < UID0_to_JSON> run this to confirm if your build is lobotomized
20:59 < Bradipo> Ok.
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20:59 < UID0_to_JSON> ifg it doesnt show up in the config directive is invalid for your binary
20:59 < Bradipo> That grep returns nothing.
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21:00 < UID0_to_JSON> you must have otop, check if usr/libexec/auth/login_skey even exists
21:00 < Bradipo> Also, nm results in no skey.
21:00 < UID0_to_JSON> if the binary is missing, the config string is just a ghost
21:00 < UID0_to_JSON> confirmed
21:00 < Bradipo> I do have /usr/libexec/auth/login_skey...
21:00 < UID0_to_JSON> your binary is stripped of the legay skey engine
21:00 < UID0_to_JSON> the internal glue is severed
21:00 < Bradipo> I wonder if the "legacy" even worked though.
21:01 < UID0_to_JSON> run ktrace -di sshd -ddd -p 2222 then kdump | grep login_skey
21:01 < Bradipo> I see that the servconf.c parses for
21:01 < Bradipo>         { "skeyauthentication", sKbdInteractiveAuthentication, SSHCFG_ALL }, /* alias */
21:01 < UID0_to_JSON> if you see "execve" failing with ENOENT or EPERM, or if it never attempts to exec the helper, you have your answer
21:01 < Bradipo> So there's a special undocumented configuration directive for it?
21:02 < Bradipo> UID0_to_JSON: I'll try the ktrace...
21:02 < UID0_to_JSON> no
21:02 < UID0_to_JSON> i
21:02 < UID0_to_JSON> it's an artifact
21:02 < UID0_to_JSON> of the bsd_auth abastraction 
21:02 < Bradipo> Ok.
21:02 < Bradipo> I was just grepping through sources trying to see what was there.
21:02 < UID0_to_JSON> the skey you sese in the confid is a substyle passed to the login_ * helpers
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21:02 < UID0_to_JSON> on openbsd keyboard interactive is the transport
21:02 < UID0_to_JSON> bsdauth is the engine
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21:03 < Bradipo> I'm not married to skey... I just thought that was the way to do it since it's in base, lol.
21:03 < UID0_to_JSON> if you have authenticationmethods password, keyboard-interactive:skey sshd is looking for a way to satisfy that 2nd requirement
21:03 < UID0_to_JSON> if the binary has no internal skey symbols, it must exec /usr/libexec/auth/login_skey
21:03 < Bradipo> Yes, well, as I said, I do have /usr/libexec/auth/login_skey
21:03 < Bradipo> Let me check kdump for exec...
21:05 < Bradipo> There's no exec in kdump output.
21:07 < Bradipo> Is skey/skeyinit et al. also being removed?
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21:09 < UID0_to_JSON> s/key is indeed being purged
21:09 < UID0_to_JSON> it is md5/sha1 based and vulnerable to pre computation and dictionary attacks
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21:10 < UID0_to_JSON> the project is pushing users toward totp (login_googleauth) or physical tokens
21:10 < UID0_to_JSON> switch to totp
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21:10 < Bradipo> totp isn't good for "off grid".
21:11 < UID0_to_JSON> incorrect
21:11 < UID0_to_JSON> it's entirely offline
21:11 < Bradipo> It's time based.
21:11 < UID0_to_JSON> it is a deterministic function of
21:11 < Bradipo> I cannot just print off the next X OTP.
21:11 < Bradipo> That means I have to have some kind of device to generate.
21:11 < UID0_to_JSON> negative. you are conflating totp with the physical implementation
21:11 < Bradipo> "off grid" means I have a piece of paper with the OTP on them.
21:12 < Bradipo> Sure, I could calculate windows in advance...
21:12 < Bradipo> That's lame.
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21:12 < Bradipo> Let's see... I might want to authenticate at counter X, let's generate that, if I miss my window, wait for the next, etc...
21:12 < Bradipo> Or do I misunderstand?
21:12 < UID0_to_JSON> verify /etc/login.conf has ":auth=passwd,skey:" for your specific class and you ran 'cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf'.
21:13 < UID0_to_JSON> you misunderstood
21:13 < Bradipo> Does it only work if compiled with cap_mkdb?
21:13 < UID0_to_JSON> s/key is a lamport hash chain
21:13 < UID0_to_JSON> it is not time based
21:13 < UID0_to_JSON> it is sequence based
21:13 < Bradipo> I didn't say s/key was time based...
21:13 < Bradipo> I said TOTP was.
21:13 < UID0_to_JSON> ah, correct
21:14 < UID0_to_JSON> then the logic never reaches the bsd_auth shim
21:14 < UID0_to_JSON> verify the bsd_auth configuration
21:14 < Bradipo> Back to cap_mkdb... does this actually have to be run?  I thought it would parse /etc/login.conf automatically...
21:14 < Bradipo> I don't have a mkdb style at the moment.
21:14 < UID0_to_JSON> negative. login.conf is not parsed as raw text
21:15 < Bradipo> Then it's built on-demand.
21:15 < UID0_to_JSON> the system looks for /etc/login.conf.db. if you modify the text file without running cap_mkdb, the changes are invisible to bsd_auth and the sshd monitor
21:15 < Bradipo> The point is, I don't have to run cap_mkdb, unless you're saying that the only way to make it recognize skey is to do so.
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21:15 < Bradipo> I don't have /etc/login.conf.db
21:15 < UID0_to_JSON> negative. the system does not "automatically" parse the flat file
21:15 < UID0_to_JSON> the c library (login_cap) looks for the .db file first
21:16 < Bradipo> I understand that.
21:16 < Bradipo> It doesn't exist.
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21:16 < Bradipo> So if it doesn't exist, why should I create it with cap_mkdb?
21:16 < UID0_to_JSON> verify your actual login class
21:16 < Bradipo> login class is default.
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21:17 < UID0_to_JSON> check the auth styles for that class
21:17 < UID0_to_JSON> verify the helper works in isolation
21:17 -!- fflam [~mdt@2600:4040:10f9:6b00::1c19] has joined #openbsd
21:17 < Bradipo> UID0_to_JSON: Who's bot are you anyway? :-)
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21:17 < phy1729> Bradipo: you shouldn't create it
21:17 < Bradipo> s/Who's/whose/
21:17 < Bradipo> phy1729: Yeah, I know... just quizzing the bot.
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21:26 < oldlaptop> vortexx: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177377776620295&w=2 doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
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23:06 < Bradipo> login.conf still mentions skey: https://man.openbsd.org/login.conf#AUTHENTICATION
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 18 00:00:25 2026