--- Log opened Wed Mar 18 00:00:25 2026
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01:40 < ssm_> oldlaptop: reading the slopcode, wtf is crc32c_table
01:41 < mischief> pretty normal to have a precalculated table for a given polynomial for crc, for speed
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01:42 < mischief> though, i think the copy in this ext4 diff might be duplicated with an existing table in the kernel
01:43 < mischief> sys/lib/libkern/crc32c.h
01:44 < Bradipo> Even the FAQ still mentions S/Key with SSH interaction: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#SKey
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01:44 < Bradipo> Gives an example of: ssh -l ericj:skey localhost
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02:44 < dwayneiam> 4 OpenBSD devices all wireless. File sharing NFS? SAMBA? other options?
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02:45 < dwayneiam> Haven't used NFS in like 20 yrs. Would that even be a dependable option on wifi?
02:46 < echelon> why not
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02:48 < dwayneiam> echelon: idk, wondering if anyone had good or negative experience with NFS on wireless 
02:49 < echelon> dwayneiam: how spotty is your wifi
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02:51 < dwayneiam> echelon: pretty solid. Also hibernate my laptop few times a day. Would cause caos?
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02:52 < echelon> i don't see why it would
02:53 < dwayneiam> echelon: I'll have to look into it. Like i said been 20 or so years. Memories are a little fuzzy on subject.
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02:57 < dwayneiam> I have rpi 4 b running off powerbank. Thought i was a genius (UPS) I see now it's been done.
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03:17 < dwayneiam> Ok read OpenBSD faq on NFS. Question if i mount share on boot and then hibernate client device will things get wonky?
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03:22 < thrig> NFS can go wonky without hibernation
03:23 < dwayneiam> thrig: :) heard that long time ago. Didn't know if that was still the case.
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03:24 < dwayneiam> thrig: other recomendation?
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03:26 < Bradipo> dwayneiam: What are you trying to accomplish?
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03:29 < dwayneiam> Bradipo: just simple file sharing. I have rpi4 b and mini pc I'm not really using. 1 100G 1 1T storage. Just trying to give them purpose. And fun
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03:33 < Bradipo> Well, you can try NFS.  Let us know how it goes.
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03:33 < Bradipo> Might be better to use ristretto (from ports) and gvfs using SSH.
03:33 < Bradipo> Sorry, ristretto is an image viewer...
03:34 < Bradipo> I meant something like thunar.
03:34 < Bradipo> thunar can open a remote location over SSH.
03:34 < Bradipo> So can LibreOffice by the way.
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03:38 < dwayneiam> Bradipo: I installed thunar once on OpenBSD. The dependancies it pulled in (wholly smokes).
03:40 < dwayneiam> I will try NFS and report back. The only reason i would install gui file manager is visually greping images.
03:40 < Bradipo> Ok, yes, dependency nightmare.
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03:41 < Bradipo> I didn't know what you're level of tolerance was for command line.
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03:47 < dwayneiam> Bradipo: I also tried to install pcmanfm and got a nice messege saying it's not maintained. 
03:47 < dwayneiam> looking at the github page. Looks that way.
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03:49 < mischief> there is sshfs, and rclone if you want fuse
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03:52 < pardis> dwayneiam: do you have space on all machines for a complete copy of all files? if so, syncthing is an option, and a rather good one
03:53 < pardis> no need to worry about suspending one or more of your computers and no networked filesystem in the path of applications
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03:54 < dwayneiam> mischief: thanks for ideas
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03:55 < dwayneiam> pardis: I'm a fan of syncthing. It is nice.
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04:02 < dwayneiam> I'm going to give NFS a shot. Looks simple.
04:03 < dwayneiam> Lol. /etc/examples/exports has no examples. man exports does
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04:26 < Bradipo> Interesting, it looks like skey does work, at least on OpenBSD 7.8
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04:32 < Bradipo> Well, at least it has the appearance of working.. I get a prompt.
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04:35 < Bradipo> Yes, it does indeed work.  Pity that it's apparently being ripped out in -current.
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05:08 < dwayneiam> Ok setup NFS server and 2 clients. Hibernation didn't seem to be a problem. Ok cool
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05:09 < seninha> Hi, /etc/examples/pf.conf has `set skip on lo`, which passes traffic on the lo(4) interface; at the end, it has the rule `block return in on ! lo0 proto tcp to port 6000:6010¯, which “do not permit remote connections to X11” as per comment.
05:10 < seninha> Is the “on ! lo0” really necessary there as traffic on lo is already set to pass?
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05:10 < seninha> Or is there any difference?
05:11 < thrig> the skip relates to lo. "! lo0" relates to, well, "not lo0" interfaces
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05:16 < seninha> i know; the question is if ommiting that “on ! lo0" would yield any difference. If traffic on lo interfaces already pass, you could just block on any interface there (for all lo traffic is skipped)
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05:17 < seninha> Couldn't it just be `block return in proto tcp to port 6000:6010` and have the same effect?
05:18 < dwayneiam> nfsd seems to run as root. Is that a problem?
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05:21 < dwayneiam> ddgo answered my question.
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07:42 < lts> seninha: I think "! lo0" is not performing anything new in that scenario. Sometimes doing something like that is useful for protection from errors elsewhere, i.e. "if someone removes the skip lo0 line, this will still save the day" type scenario. Or it could be for clarity. But in this example, it sounds like is just extra.
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07:43 < lts> *it is
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07:54 < IcePic> seninha: the rule is meant (somewhat as lts noticed) to permit x11 tcp on localhost even if set skip is missing, one wants to be able to use localhost tcp for x11, but never from the network.
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08:40 < vortexx> oldlaptop: indeed it doesn't
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08:51 < vortexx> wow what a load of rubbish spouted over S/Key (no I don't use it, have never tried). Not ONE post in the tech@ archives on the matter, no indication AT ALL it is being ripped out. And also... login_google? GTFO. Not even a port of that name
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10:47 < waffles> another day trying to figure out why openbsd is reading my disk as 120mb
10:48 < sibiria> does it do the same if you list the disks in the installer?
10:49 < sibiria> it asks what disk is the main disk (or something like that)
10:49 < sibiria> what if you list the drives? does it enumerate correctly?
10:49 < waffles> when it initially reads it correctly reports 130gb
10:50 < waffles> when it auto partitions all that goes away and it just says 68mb partition 68mb unallocated
10:50 < morpho> is this the broken disk?
10:50 < waffles> no im gonna throw that away
10:50 < sibiria> my immediate thought is that you inadvertently pick a small partition to install on, instead of the entire disk
10:51 < waffles> yeah i thought that too so i thought maybe whole disk doesnt mean whole disk?
10:51 < sibiria> you could show us pictures
10:51 < waffles> so i wipefs -a the drive in t2sde live installer and openbsd still reports it as 120mb
10:51 < sibiria> show the enumerated drive list. show what you select, what it offers when you (w)hole it
10:51 < waffles> ok 1 sec
10:51 < sibiria> if you have a cat also show a picture of that, thx
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10:53 < waffles> ya will do lol
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10:55 < waffles> https://i.postimg.cc/2y17jzBX/20260318-065443.jpg
10:56 < waffles> 137215 blocks is about 130gb i think
10:56 < avemestr> In available disks it says 0.1G.
10:56 < sibiria> no it's 100 mb-ish
10:56 < waffles> oh why is it reading that
10:56 < avemestr> wd0: ST506 (0.1G)
10:56 < sibiria> very strange it sees the actual disk but just 100 mb of it
10:57 < waffles> yeah it does that to my ssd as well
10:57 < sibiria> it could be as what vortexx, i think, suggested, that it's some legacy LBA mode hiccup
10:57 < waffles> u know i have an idea...
10:57 < waffles> its very cursed tho
10:59 < sibiria> in some cases you can override and say that there are a lot more cylinders/heads/sectors, but it's not recommended
10:59 < sibiria> unchartered territory, no saying how that pans out to the LBA model
11:01 < sibiria> uncharted*
11:02 < waffles> so when i got it to install the first time it was because i was using wd1
11:02 < waffles> i may be able to swap the ssd into wd1?
11:02 < sibiria> sure, it won't hurt to shuffle things around
11:03 < sibiria> how do you run the installer? you write the full installer, or miniroot, to one of the disks?
11:03 < morpho> i just go ol usb stick or netboot
11:04 < morpho> dd
11:04 < sibiria> ok. same same
11:04 < morpho> what is waffles trying to do?
11:04 < sibiria> take over the world
11:04 < waffles> ah yeah that didnt work either
11:04 < waffles> im running from a dvd
11:05 < waffles> i wanted to try netbsd and freebsd too but i cant get those to even boot lol
11:06 < morpho> same reason i use obsd but nvm
11:06 < morpho> what is this weird machine you are installing onto? just a desktop with an ssd in it?
11:07 < waffles> powermac g5
11:08 < waffles> i tried linux but the apple nvidia card in it does not work well at all with linux
11:09 < morpho> ok, a quick glance at the internets mentions some problem with the sata driver on obsd
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11:10 < morpho> it can boot from usb though
11:10 < waffles> yeahhhhhhhhh
11:10 < morpho> that was 2008 though
11:11 < morpho> might be a fix since then
11:11 < sibiria> i wonder if the firmware and installer will behave differently if you put the installer on the SSD and boot from that, no DVD, no USB
11:11 < sibiria> would you be open to try that?
11:11 < waffles> yeah for sure
11:11 < sibiria> writing the miniroot (not full installer) onto the SSD
11:11 < sibiria> this will require network to install
11:11 < waffles> i got network yeah
11:12 < morpho> is there a way to check if the sata driver is available?
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11:14 < waffles> its so weird tho this dead drive is the only one that read correctly
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11:14 < waffles> linux is able to format my hard drives correclty but not my ssd
11:14 < morpho> oh that is odd
11:14 < morpho> linux should work with pretty much everything these days
11:14 < waffles> ya ideally xd
11:17 < morpho> is this the new ssd
11:17 < waffles> yeah
11:18 < morpho> what is it
11:18 < morpho> do you know smartmontools?
11:18 < waffles> uhhh i just ordered a colorful 256gb piece of crap
11:18 < avemestr> Linux might have better HW support, but boy do I despise the not-working software out-of-the-box.
11:18 < waffles> yeah my main problem on linux rn is no agp nvidia support
11:18 < waffles> t2sde asked me for kernel logs but its not logging anything
11:19 < waffles> debian had same problem it boots and dies on x
11:20 < morpho> maybe check that ssds health
11:20 < avemestr> Installed OpenSUSE on a childs laptop. Nice KDE DE. Clicks on wifi-icon. Needs KWallet. KWallet needs some certificate, that cannot be created on the fly. Cannot connect to wifi no matter how I try. Had to enter the terminal and do "sudo nmtui" to get a terminal application running. Then wifi worked. Until next reboot... same story.
11:21 < morpho> obviously with the current economic climate its fucking impossible to get any storage 
11:21 < waffles> if u want i can return it to amazon its a day old
11:22 < avemestr> Next up: Printing. Messy GUI. Impossible to navigate. "Choose driver". Try downloading from Brother. Etc. etc. etc. On OpenBSD: Setup in /etc/printcap and lpr an it Just Works(TM).
11:22 < waffles> its got literally the same problem as my hdd though so i doubt it
11:22 < morpho> it might be a bad combination of pc/ssd, if it works in another machine then its fine
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11:23 < waffles> ya im like 99% sure itd work if i hooked it up to my desktop
11:23 < waffles> this mac is just buggy with openbsd linux reads my hdd fine it just cant see my ssd
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11:24 < waffles> ooenbsd can read drives but it cant read them correctly no matter what drive it is
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11:26 < morpho> what year is the machine?
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11:26 < avemestr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G5
11:26 < waffles> uhhh i had trouble finding that cause they made like 100 of these
11:26 < avemestr> 2003 - 2006 it seems.
11:27 < waffles> this one is a dual single core machine with a nvidia gpu
11:27 < morpho> maybe there have been regressions
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11:28 < morpho> would maybe trying an earlier linux/bsd kernel help?
11:29 < morpho> sorry i cant help more
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11:31 < morpho> but could be sata driver has regressed on bsd, or nvidea driver has regressed on linux
11:31 < morpho> or they never worked to begin with
11:32 < waffles> its ok ill figure something out
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11:34 < morpho> thats a cool machine, be great to see it working again
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11:34 < waffles> ya ive wanted one for a while god finally zapped one into existence for me
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12:04 < sibiria> waffles: i zoned out for a while. did you get around to see if anything behaves differently if you boot the miniroot off of the SSD?
12:05 < waffles> i do not know how to do that
12:05 < sibiria> you "dd" the miniroot.img onto the SSD from another computer
12:05 < waffles> oh im gonna need my ssd adapter cable for that
12:06 < sibiria> same as how you'd write the installer onto a USB memory
12:06 < sibiria> right, or connect the SSD to a computer's SATA port and boot some linux thing on USB. that will work, too
12:06 < waffles> im going to return this ssd tho someone said the health may be bad
12:06 < sibiria> knoppix or whatever, which has curl and network etc.
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12:08 < waffles> its like a day old and never been written to so if its that bad already i better just return it
12:09 < sibiria> is it some chinese off-brand? Kingdian, Evershine, etc.
12:09 < waffles> colorful
12:09 < sibiria> the crap you never know how it's gonna behave
12:09 < sibiria> "colorful", interesting
12:09 < waffles> ya big chinese brand dont know
12:09 < waffles> it has the exact same issue as my apple hdd
12:10 < waffles> so im like its probably fine but if i cant even use it id rather have my 50 bucks back
12:12 < waffles> it looks like for macos install disk im gonna need some dual layer dvds as its a whopping 7.8gb, and i dont trust usb boot
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12:14 < morpho> netboot?
12:15 < waffles> maybe idk exactly how macos works tbh
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12:24 < morpho> is nfs fast enough to stream films and load emulator roms from?
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12:29 < sibiria> yes
12:30 < IcePic> dvd quality is 5Mbit/s or so "only"
12:30 < sibiria> waffles: you can install OS X from USB
12:31 < sibiria> maybe we misunderstood eachother, but if you intended to try booting the installer from the SSD, you don't need to involve OS X
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12:38 < waffles> oh yeah ik
12:38 < waffles> im gonna go out on a limb and say thats probbaly not gonna help much
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13:08 < seninha> lts, IcePic, thanks!
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16:24 < seninha> For a presonal computer, is a “block out on egress” (with allowed services explicitly allowed later) needlesly restrictive? I have a “block in on egress” with explicit services passed; but a “pass out on egress”.
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16:45 < deimosBSD> it depends how much pain you enjoy
16:46 < deimosBSD> I always do block all and then "pass out on $ext_if proto tcp from any to any modulate state
16:46 < deimosBSD> pass out on $ext_if proto { udp icmp icmp6 } from any to any keep state"
16:46 < deimosBSD> so I can track what's happening
16:46 < thrig> allowing DNS and https out is quite a big hole
16:47 < thrig> otoh you might have particular users who should not be making network requests
16:47 < sibiria> crazy to even think that anyone would want to resolve hostnames and surf the web in days like these
16:47 < sibiria> personal computers are AT LEAST two decades away
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16:48 < phy1729> Can always MITM DNS and configure unbound with an allow list
16:48 < sibiria> seninha: if the feedback is of any use, i allow all outbound traffic, but i filter against a regularly updated list of bad hosts (botnets and whatnot), just in case
16:48 < deimosBSD> i use unbound blocklists too
16:49 < phy1729> I allow all outbound on the laptop but filter outbound on the gateway
16:49 < deimosBSD> but i keep a shotgun next to the firewall in case it makes odd noises
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17:01 < sibiria> i do no DNS-based blocking today, just a list of networks (emerging threats' blocklist) that get no ins or outs
17:02 < seninha> sibiria, that's what i am doing here: “pass out on egress” with an explicit list of allowed ports.
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17:02 < sibiria> not entirely the same
17:02 < seninha> s/allowed/blocked/
17:03 < seninha> And the reverse for traffic in: “block in on egress” with explicit list of allowed ports.
17:03 < seninha> sibiria, i also keep a dynamically-built table of bots to block 
17:04 < seninha> My issue is more with fine tuning per port/services
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17:06 < seninha> deimosBSD, good advice. Noted 𓃈
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17:10 < deimosBSD> if you do block all, and then allow explicit protocols/destinations, you'll realize the internet runs on 80/443 and unless you are doing deep packet inspection, you can't really control what goes out
17:10 < deimosBSD> you can use pf to block by user, so only certain users are allowed out at all
17:12 < phy1729> You can use unbound to restrict domains by user but I've yet to find a hook on domain resolve to insert the result into a pf table, so anyone who already knows the IP can still do whatever.
17:13 < sibiria> eventually you'll run into something needing to be contacted on a different port, which is why i don't bother filtering outbound traffic on this or that port
17:14 < sibiria> some cdn or website running on 8080, some streamed audio, tons of various game server functions running on so many different ports, trading Juarez on the torrential seas of piracy etc. 
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17:22 < IcePic> deimosBSD: "block by user" only works for traffic originating from, or destined to the actual fw, not traffic passing through though
17:23 < deimosBSD> IcePic: yes, I made an assumption the pf was running on the same host
17:23 < sibiria> it surely is, but there might be a LAN behind it
17:23 < sibiria> a squad of minute blowfish
17:25 < phy1729> IcePic: you can make it work with wireguard shenanigans, but you have to do the user-IP mapping yourself it's not the user keyword in pf.conf
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20:21 < ForeverNoob[m]> On 7.8-STABLE, is it normal to receive so many syspatches lately?
20:21 < ForeverNoob[m]> (Like multiple per day)
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20:22 < uwharrie> yes
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20:52 < deimosBSD> if you would, please consult the graph, https://agglutino.zw.is/txt/4043xqu2
20:53 < deimosBSD> although, i should update that for today's syspatches
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20:55 < uwharrie> no such host
20:55 < uwharrie> nevermind, v6 only
20:56 < deimosBSD> https://termbin.com/g3nm
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20:58 < uwharrie> nicely done
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21:04 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh that looks cool, thx. Do people strictly reboot after every syspatch or is it more like a case-by-case basis?
21:05 < sibiria> only the kernel-related syspatches require a reboot
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21:06 < sibiria> some other patches may be tricky to actualize without a restart of, well, a lot of things
21:08 < deimosBSD> just for clarity, my original graph is unicode, but everything assumes .txt is ascii not utf-8
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21:10 < ForeverNoob[m]> sibiria: Makes sense. I guess that more or less requires deep knowledge of OpenBSD internals. I think however I can see that some kernel patches being applied in /var/syspatch/78-022_recvfd/022_recvfd.patch.sig but just to be on the safer side, I'll just reboot after every syspatch.
21:11 < uwharrie> no real reason to reboot after https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/7.8/common/023_calendar.patch.sig
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21:12 < sibiria> ForeverNoob[m]: syspatch will let you know if the patch was an update for the kernel. you generally don't need to wonder too much about it
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21:15 < ForeverNoob[m]> Ah, I'm applying them in a cron job, but perhaps it's best if I log the output somewhere (unless it can also be found in /var/syspatch ?)
21:16 < uwharrie> a cron job to notify you if they're a available should be fine, but auto-applying them might not be the best idea
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21:17 < ForeverNoob[m]> Like, I can see that some patches are applied to the kernel (Like this one? https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/7.8/common/018_pledgepaths.patch.sig) because it says "+++ sys/kern/kern_pledge.c" but are they always so clear about this?
21:18 < ForeverNoob[m]> So I started this philosophy of applying (security) patches because I value security higher than uptime. Though perhaps in case of OBSD that might be an irrational philosophy to have.
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21:19 < avemestr> ForeverNoob[m]: syspatch output "reboot to load the new kernel" if a reboot is required.
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21:20 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh nice, that's pretty handy. I guess I can grep for that.
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21:21 < pardis> on some of my machines (specifically the ones with some kind of redundancy) I automatically apply syspatches and -stable package updates, and reboot unconditionally afterwards
21:21 < pardis> has been working well for years
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21:25 < ForeverNoob[m]> If you have redundancy in those systems, do you apply them to all of the components or do some kind of A/B testing first?
21:25 < ForeverNoob[m]> s/components/nodes/
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21:30 < pardis> they are IRC servers, and I have a script that connects to the local server, runs INFO for each node in the network, and only proceeds if all nodes are currently online
21:31 < pardis> IRC is simple enough that A/B testing after update isn't really necessary
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21:33 < ForeverNoob[m]> Oh yeah that makes sense.
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21:40 < ForeverNoob[m]> lol, downloading https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/Changelogs/ChangeLog.69 and I see that it sits at 5.8 MB. Meanwhile, same page opened in Brave (Chromium) the tab says it consumes 251 MB of RAM (was 478 MB), amazing.
21:40 < ForeverNoob[m]> And definitely not nice, Brave.
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21:41 < deimosBSD> https://termbin.com/952q there, updated with today's patch
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23:49 < itrsea> Does OpenBSD install on MacOS? Is there a way to install from within a Linux environment? The laptop seemingly hangs after reading internal drives.
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23:56 < Bradipo> itrsea: So you're asking of OpenBSD installs on another OS?  What exactly does that mean?
23:56 < Bradipo> Do you mean as a VM?
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 19 00:00:26 2026