--- Log opened Mon Mar 23 00:00:30 2026
--- Day changed Mon Mar 23 2026
00:00 < morpho> https://google.github.io/tpm-js/
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00:11 < morpho> dg: whould creating a /dev/tpm device be a first start?
00:11 < morpho> then allow some way to just write these tpm commands to it and listsen to responces
00:24 < dg> morpho: yes, possibily look at the freebsd driver, as it shares some history but looks like the freebsd one has been expanded
00:25 < dg> if you are serious once you have some idea what is involved it's worth emailing tech@ before you do work and the response is no
00:28 < morpho> fair enough
00:29 < dg> but there's lot of things a tpm can do, they can be an extra source of random entropy and a good implementation of that would seem desirable
00:35 < morpho> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=154775596424750&w=2
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01:27 < ff104> hmm this new computer of mine always hangs when `shutdown -p now`. never powers off after `syncing disks... done` 
01:27 < ff104> however `reboot` proceeds as expected
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02:04 < izder456> is cvsweb lagging for y'all?
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02:05 < izder456> oh its just reallllllllyy slow
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02:12 < pardis> it's often slow when being scraped for AI purposes by perkeleen vittupää
02:13 < pardis> probably they've found a way past the most recent attempts to block them
02:13 < pardis> especially weird when you consider it would be less effort to just mirror the CVS repo and index it directly
02:14 < mischief> file bad http good
02:14 < phy1729> Woah now that'd require understanding what they're scraping
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02:18 < thrig> yeah where's the slop in that?
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07:20 < renaud> IcePic: intersting the gcc as a service :)
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07:36 < IcePic> renaud: it was one of the things newer gpls wanted to prevent if possible
07:37 < IcePic> AGPL to be exact
07:37 < IcePic> quote: While the standard GPL requires sharing source code only when software is "distributed" (sold or given to users), the AGPL closes this "SaaS loophole" by requiring companies to make their source code available to anyone interacting with it over a network.
07:37 < renaud> I didn't even know that
07:38 < IcePic> and I think that if an org (super huge one at that, say NASA) has an internal nasa-gcc with local edits, they can ship that around available internally to all 4738473 employees and it still would not count as "publishing" a modified binary
07:38 < renaud> as long as no employees leaks it
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07:39 < IcePic> renaud: sure, but it would that on that person
07:39 < IcePic> and the terms as "distribution" or "conveying" in the license IIRC
07:39 < librecat> IcePic: i can also give a counter-exapmle where openbsd due to inclusion of 4 clause bsd code and android due to being intended to be forked into nonfree composite work cannot use gcc that is gpl 3 licensed
07:39 < IcePic> terms are*
07:40 < IcePic> librecat: yes, the bsd with advertizing clauses collide with "you may not add or remove any conditions from this license"
07:40 < librecat> lol i thought here was #fsf or #gnu
07:40 < renaud> librecat: do you hand out in #fsf and #gnu?
07:40 < librecat> not really
07:40 < renaud> s/hand/hang/
07:40 < librecat> i just lurk
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07:41 < librecat> IcePic: openbsd has lots of code with advertizing clause unfortunately and its in the very core code of the kernel
07:41 < librecat> or libc
07:42 < librecat> which makes me curious on the legality of making a openbsd live system that has gcc dependency
07:42 < librecat> using ports*
07:43 < renaud> as long as you publish the sources
07:43 < IcePic> ports dont make the license leak into, or combine with the OS binaries
07:43 < librecat> so the issue is making a userspace built using libgcc
07:43 < librecat> if its not lgpl
07:44 < renaud> you can distribute userland using gcc as long as you give the sources
07:44 < IcePic> https://wiki.osdev.org/Libgcc#What_is_the_libgcc_license?
07:44 < librecat> its not a concern because openbsd is intended to be compiled from its previous commit
07:45 < librecat> openbsd is not intended to be cross compiled from gnu/linux for example
07:45 < librecat> i tried last summer and learned it the hard way before reading the documentation
07:45 < renaud>  as long as you used a non-proprietary version of GCC
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07:46 < renaud> so you can't redistribute binaries built by a GCC you modified yourself but didn't publish the sources for it
07:46 < librecat> true
07:46 < librecat> i should keep that in mind
07:47 < librecat> if i make a os or contribute to a gcc based one i must develop my gcc forks in public with dilligent authorship respect
07:49 < librecat> seeing the popularity contests of netbsd vs openbsd or the general usability on latest hardware makes me appriciate the harder choices openbsd leadership has to make
07:50 < librecat> netbsd has lots of features and openbsd has few well implemented ones
07:52 < librecat> as long as a project can achieve their own goals its a good project
07:52 < librecat> best drama killer ^
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12:04 < renaud> I am curious to see if someone will reply to my "is ext2 needed" mail?
12:07 < IcePic> I've been on obsd since 2.2 I think, and I don't think I have ever mounted ext2. Or if I did, it was only once for test
12:07 < IcePic> ..on openbsd that is
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12:22 < sibiria> i've used it a handful of times to move files between linux and openbsd. never struck me to actually test running openbsd off of ext2 instead of ffs/2
12:26 < renaud> I ma not sure current code would allow mounting agnything linux anymore
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12:26 < sibiria> you can mount ext3. with the exception for journaling, the ext2 driver is 99% compatible with ext3. ext4 will not mount at all
12:27 < renaud> but who still uses ext3?
12:27 < renaud> all linux distros are now ext4/btrfs/xfs
12:27 < sibiria> i'm sure there's some RHEL legacy system out there, managed by an equally antiquated legacy admin...
12:28 < renaud> and why would you use OpenBSD to read that antiquated system FS?
12:29 < sibiria> god knows. just saying that i think there are one or two users out there still making active use of openbsd's ext2 driver
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12:55 < byteskeptical> as far as I know it was the go to for using a drive on both linux and openbsd. Not sure how prevalent the practice remains 
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13:09 < vortexx> ext2?
13:09  * vortexx raises his head
13:16 < zbcm> well considering ext4 is read only
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13:18 < vortexx> I strongly dislike sneakernet, so I don't really use ext2 or anything else for data exchange between OSes. I have used ext3 just to get journaling on the linux side but that was on the dualboot 2001 vaio
13:19 < sibiria> you can't read ext4 on openbsd, unless something changed with the ext2 driver recently
13:19 < sibiria> it cannot mount ext4 at all
13:20 < sibiria> fundamentally different than ext2 and ext3
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13:29 < IcePic> ..but still not much better
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13:39 < zbcm> you can mount ext4 
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13:43 < sibiria> last i tried, a couple of years ago, it refused to mount at all. ext4 with journaling disabled but all other features at default
13:43 < zbcm> https://commie.io/#9EQOHYlQ
13:45 < sibiria> but can you actually read it normally, too? say you checksum something large that spans a ton of blocks
13:46 < zbcm> Honestly, no. I used it only to move dotfiles and won't be held responsible for anyone's data loss.
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14:09 < sonya> > sibiria │ i've used it a handful of times to move files between linux and openbsd. > +++ 
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14:47 < avemestr> Interesting OpenBSD read: https://briancallahan.net/blog/20260322.html
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14:55 < avemestr> Not sure why the author cannot be an OpenBSD developer while pointing out something weird in some mitigations in OpenBSD. 
14:56 < phy1729> To avoid the appearance of playing both sides
15:00 < ssm_> cia psyop to get more people onto linux
15:02 < phy1729> Grow up
15:02 < ssm_> okay fine, it's a phyop
15:02 < avemestr> I'm not sure how it is "playing both sides". If Developer #1 tries to improve X by doing Y, and Developer #2 also wants to improve X but says Y doesn't actually help after some additional research, I'd say they've both contributed to improving X.
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15:04 < phy1729> But people may question if the research is hiding issues becuase you're also part of the project
15:06 < avemestr> Fair enough.
15:08 < thrig> or see the history of science when someone has a new idea that goes against the current grain
15:09 < morpho> ^ short life spans
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15:35 < morpho> hrmm ive been looking at those tpm chips
15:37 < morpho> they seem to be a bit of a blob, you send bytecodes at it, you get stuff back, i dont know how secure they are
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15:46 < Bradipo> I wouldn't trust them.
15:47 < Bradipo> But that's just my uninformed gut opinion.
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16:17 < vortexx> the tpm driver in OpenBSD is just there to do suspend/hibernate properly, it provides no outside functionality. You should be fine
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19:22 < supaman> Matthew J Garret gives a good intro to TPM here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FobfM9S9xSI
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21:34 -!- frkzoid [~frkazoid3@2603-900b-46f0-b390-b583-a78c-862e-1d3b.inf6.spectrum.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:35 -!- frkzoid [~frkazoid3@2603-900b-46f0-b390-b583-a78c-862e-1d3b.inf6.spectrum.com] has joined #openbsd
21:36 -!- vdamewood [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:41 -!- stackdroid18 [~stackdroi@user/stackdroid] has quit [Quit: I'm off, Goodbye!]
21:42 -!- vdamewood [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has joined #openbsd
21:44 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: sonya, drathir_tor, unixpro1970, OnASnoopPhone, echelon, gotohello, eniac, DarkTaffy, memset, jerryf,  (+3 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
21:44 -!- mlw [~mlw@41.73.193.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
21:44 -!- hitest [~hitest@user/hitest] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:44 -!- vinleod [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:49 -!- airrick [~airrick@73.203.94.26] has joined #openbsd
21:49 -!- airrick [~airrick@73.203.94.26] has quit [Changing host]
21:49 -!- airrick [~airrick@user/airrick] has joined #openbsd
21:52 -!- vinleod [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has joined #openbsd
21:54 -!- vdamewood [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
21:55 -!- rak_ is now known as rak
21:55 -!- airrick [~airrick@user/airrick] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
21:56 -!- vinleod is now known as vdamewood
21:56 -!- izder456 [~izder456@74.91.98.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:59 -!- izder456 [~izder456@74.91.98.215] has joined #openbsd
22:00 -!- shadowtux [~shadowtux@user/meow/shadowtux] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
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22:02 < deimosBSD> if one prefers text over video, https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/24818.html
22:02 -!- vinleod [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has joined #openbsd
22:03 < red_schuhart> :bn
22:04 -!- airrick [~airrick@73.203.94.26] has joined #openbsd
22:04 -!- airrick [~airrick@73.203.94.26] has quit [Changing host]
22:04 -!- airrick [~airrick@user/airrick] has joined #openbsd
22:04 < red_schuhart> awe damn...
22:05 < thrig> ex being short on b commands
22:05 -!- akinji [~akinji@user/akinji] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:05 -!- emmanuelux [~em@user/emmanuelux] has joined #openbsd
22:05 -!- freakazoid332 [~frkazoid3@2603-900b-46f0-b390-3858-62bd-0eea-2d85.inf6.spectrum.com] has joined #openbsd
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22:09 -!- jupiter126 [~jupiter12@ip-83-99-113-79.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:09 -!- frkzoid [~frkazoid3@2603-900b-46f0-b390-b583-a78c-862e-1d3b.inf6.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:09 -!- abiss27 [~abiss27@user/abiss] has joined #openbsd
22:09 -!- tvtoon [~The_cUnix@user/tvtoon] has joined #openbsd
22:10 -!- emmanuelux [~em@user/emmanuelux] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
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22:12 -!- zoraj [~zoraj@102.113.9.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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22:14 -!- skippy8 [~skippy8@user/Skippy8] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1]
22:15 -!- vinleod [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:16 -!- user_with_nouser [~user_with@user/user-with-nouser:54838] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:24 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has joined #openbsd
22:25 -!- jupiter126 [~jupiter12@ip-83-99-113-79.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #openbsd
22:29 -!- SiFuh [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:36 -!- rc [~rc@user/rc] has joined #openbsd
22:40 -!- zcram [~zcram@user/zcram] has quit [Quit: Do the right thing.]
22:43 -!- jjf [4dfd5f9d80@2a03:6000:1812:100::129f] has quit [Changing host]
22:43 -!- jjf [4dfd5f9d80@user/jjf] has joined #openbsd
22:44 -!- fflam [~mdt@2600:4040:10f9:6b00::1c19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
22:50 -!- akinji [~akinji@user/akinji] has joined #openbsd
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22:52 -!- kypwny [~kypwny@user/kypwny] has joined #openbsd
22:52 -!- jupiter126 [~jupiter12@ip-83-99-113-79.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:59 -!- abiss27 [~abiss27@user/abiss] has quit [Quit: I'm off, Goodbye!]
23:00 -!- lac [~lac@user/prettywellred] has joined #openbsd
23:02 -!- schneid3306 [~schneid33@pool-100-6-139-51.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openbsd
23:10 -!- DetourNe- [~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK] has joined #openbsd
23:11 -!- DetourNetworkUK [~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:12 -!- UnixBSD [~NOX@79.112.4.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
23:12 -!- DetourNe- is now known as DetourNetworkUK
23:13 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
23:16 -!- librecat [uid714233@id-714233.helmsley.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
23:25 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has joined #openbsd
23:35 -!- eniac [~eniac@user/eniac] has joined #openbsd
23:35 -!- jerryf [~jerryf@user/jerryf] has joined #openbsd
23:35 -!- nedko [~nedko@gateway/tor-sasl/nedko] has joined #openbsd
23:35 -!- baz [~baz@user/baz] has joined #openbsd
23:36 -!- kypwny [~kypwny@user/kypwny] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:36 -!- gotohello [~gotohello@user/gotohello] has joined #openbsd
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23:39 -!- DarkTaffy [~oldben@user/Old-Ben-Jabroni] has joined #openbsd
23:44 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd
23:47 -!- user_with_nouser [~user_with@user/user-with-nouser:54838] has joined #openbsd
23:50 -!- nature [~nature@64.137.144.64] has joined #openbsd
--- Log closed Tue Mar 24 00:00:33 2026