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ZZZzzz…] 05:31 -!- hakutaku [~textual@user/hakutaku] has joined #openbsd 05:34 -!- UserUnknown [~User@38.244.136.108] has joined #openbsd 05:35 -!- skippy8 [~skippy8@user/Skippy8] has joined #openbsd 05:37 -!- echelon [~steerpike@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38 -!- toorop [~toorop@82.96.140.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:38 -!- echelon [~steerpike@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has joined #openbsd 05:38 -!- eniac [~eniac@user/eniac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39 -!- eniac [~eniac@user/eniac] has joined #openbsd 05:40 -!- UserUnknown [~User@38.244.136.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:45 -!- mesaoptimizer [~user@user/PapuaHardyNet] has joined #openbsd 05:57 -!- sh3ll [~sh3ll@user/sh3ll] has joined #openbsd 06:00 -!- sh3ll [~sh3ll@user/sh3ll] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00 -!- cli [~m-vsauiy@user/cli] has joined #openbsd 06:02 -!- UserUnknown [~User@38.244.136.108] has joined #openbsd 06:04 -!- sh3ll [~sh3ll@user/sh3ll] has joined #openbsd 06:05 -!- sh3ll [~sh3ll@user/sh3ll] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06 -!- UserUnknown [~User@38.244.136.108] has quit [Client Quit] 06:08 -!- UID0_to_JSON [~UID0_to_J@user/UID0-to-JSON:37295] has joined #openbsd 06:18 -!- sonya [~nologin@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has joined #openbsd 06:19 < IcePic> mlw: look at /etc/fbtab, it can be used to grant ownership of devices for the person logged in to the graphical console, which is reasonable for stuff like audio devices and so on 06:22 -!- sonya [~nologin@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23 -!- sonya [~nologin@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has joined #openbsd 06:26 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26 -!- sonya [~nologin@gateway/tor-sasl/sonya] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 06:27 -!- 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has joined #openbsd 10:27 < polarian> Was just discussing GPL code within BSD's, I dont know where FreeBSD sticks its GNU code, but iirc OpenBSD sticks it all under the "GNU" tre 10:27 < polarian> tree* 10:36 < avemestr> polarian: https://www.openbsd.org/policy.html if you're not already aware of that page. 10:40 < polarian> avemestr: I am aware of the page, I am aware of the GPL policy 10:40 < polarian> afaik all of the GPL code is under the GNU tree 10:41 < polarian> but iirc OpenBSD has imported DRM (GPL'd) into the src tree, and im not 100% sure what that is 10:41 < polarian> thats why I am asking, as I thought GNU tree was a dumping ground for any GPL code, but someone told me thats stupid because GNU != GPL 10:42 < polarian> so I am checking whether I am right or wrong :p 10:43 < polarian> FreeBSD for example refuses to pull DRM into the src tree, because of the GPL licence, so its wrapped in LinuxKPI but is kept outside of the src tree, and is instead in the ports tree, but the ports tree didn't used to match the patch releases within src, meaning each patch you had to recompile your DRM kmod, theres now two package repos for ports on freebsd (well 3 if you include pkgbase) which 10:43 < polarian> is the kmod repo which is recompiled for each patch. 10:48 -!- mlw [~mlw@41.73.193.26] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:48 -!- mlw [~mlw@41.73.193.26] has joined #openbsd 10:48 < avemestr> Randomly opening files in https://github.com/openbsd/src/tree/master/sys/dev/pci/drm seems to indicate a lot of MIT licensed files. 10:50 < sibiria> which is a non-aggressive and open-minded license, just like BSD, and compatible with it 10:52 < avemestr> Yep. I just wanted to say that drm was not necessarily GPL. 10:53 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:56 -!- zcram [~zcram@user/zcram] has quit [Quit: Do the right thing.] 10:56 -!- jonf_ [~jjf@163.5.171.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56 -!- jonf [~jonf@163.5.171.92] has quit [Write error: error:80000068:system library::Connection reset by peer] 10:57 -!- rnkn [70252d236a@2a03:6000:1812:100::158d] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by rnkn_!6df1042390@irc.pico.sh))] 10:57 -!- rnkn_ is now known as rnkn 10:57 -!- rnkn_ [70252d236a@2a03:6000:1812:100::158d] has joined #openbsd 10:59 -!- jonf_ [~jonf@163.5.171.92] has joined #openbsd 10:59 -!- jonf [~jjf@163.5.171.92] has joined #openbsd 11:04 < mischief> some subsystems of linux are dual licensed. drm and the ath drivers come to mind 11:17 -!- torev6 [~tore@2a01:563:58:6200:9e3e:6940:b332:395] has joined #openbsd 11:18 -!- Thorne [~thorne@user/Thorne] has quit [Quit: No Water.] 11:27 -!- spikewall [~spikewall@dynamic-095-117-067-133.95.117.pool.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:29 -!- spikewall [~spikewall@dynamic-077-007-254-021.77.7.pool.telefonica.de] has joined #openbsd 11:32 -!- paulf [~paulf@146.122.203.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32 -!- hakutaku [~textual@user/hakutaku] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Anywhere.] 12:56 -!- nanon [~nanon@2605:9480:110a:2180:aa5e:45ff:fe3e:ab6] has joined #openbsd 12:59 < oldlaptop> (Possibly relevant that commercial vendors have more or less always been major contributors to the whole X ecosystem, to the point that you'll see an awful lot of copyright lines in there for commercial vendors that last existed 20 years ago) 13:00 -!- jerryf [~jerryf@user/jerryf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00 -!- jerryf [~jerryf@user/jerryf] has joined #openbsd 13:03 -!- Bradipo [cci82n08wa@50.77.44.19] has joined #openbsd 13:03 -!- s1b1 [~s1b1@user/s1b1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:07 -!- fflam [~mdt@2600:4040:10f9:6b00::1c19] has joined #openbsd 13:08 -!- jerryf [~jerryf@user/jerryf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08 -!- jerryf_ [~jerryf@user/jerryf] has joined #openbsd 13:14 -!- gotohello [~gotohello@user/gotohello] has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:14 -!- Fleeno [~textual@cscd-1-199-120-73-104.dsl.netins.net] has joined #openbsd 13:19 -!- DarkTaff1 [~oldben@user/Old-Ben-Jabroni] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20 -!- s1b1 [~s1b1@user/s1b1] has joined #openbsd 13:21 -!- gknux [~gknux@user/galaxy-knuckles/x-3015990] has joined #openbsd 13:22 -!- Fleeno [~textual@cscd-1-199-120-73-104.dsl.netins.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:22 -!- paulf [~paulf@146.122.203.34] has joined #openbsd 13:22 -!- DarkTaffy [~oldben@user/Old-Ben-Jabroni] has joined #openbsd 13:23 -!- hakabuam [~hakabuam@libra.uberspace.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 13:26 -!- hakabuam [~hakabuam@libra.uberspace.de] has joined #openbsd 13:28 < polarian> The problem is, GPL is demonised by companies until they want to use it to push their copyright onto others. I feel like BSD attracts a lot of smaller companies who may release some proprietary shit but still wants to contribute back sometimes, with GPL its all or nothing, so companies will only GPL what they are happy people using and force them to contribute back, everything else remains 13:28 < polarian> proprietary. 13:29 < polarian> in other words, it seems like GPL has attracted big tech not because they care about open source, but because they can selectively choice what to publish, and then use the GPL to get free contributions back from others. 13:29 -!- GnuNix [~NOX@79.112.4.216] has joined #openbsd 13:30 < polarian> feels like smaller companies get the raw end of the stick, not big enough to be able to have the ability to write things from scratch, but not willing to open source EVERYTHING they do, and thus permissive fits in better here... 13:31 < polarian> I think it was theo de raadt which said that releasing OpenSSH under GPL would have caused big tech to write half arsed insecure implementations, meanwhile making it piss easy to drop in openssh has made everyone more secure, albeit, still a proprietary product 13:32 < polarian> obviously IMO everything should be released under a permissive/open domain licence, but I also dont believe in forcing it 13:32 < polarian> anyways I just ignited another GPL debate, sorry :) 13:35 < mischief> companies are just naturally allergic to ip sharing 13:36 < mischief> (and also do not give employees time or pay them enough to share relevant changes/'ip' 13:38 < Bradipo> And yet, if companies are so allergic to IP sharing, why in the world are they exposing themselves to risk by way of "AI" coding? 13:39 < morpho> that bubble is popping 13:40 < morpho> think its important to remember people who run big tech institutions usually know very little about tech 13:40 < morpho> ballmer, poettering, jobs 13:41 < mischief> most of those people know much about tech, so that seems a little ignorant 13:42 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@user/johnzlly] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:43 < mischief> it will certainly be interesting to see how the copyright situation plays out 13:43 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@KD118158186024.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #openbsd 13:43 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@KD118158186024.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Changing host] 13:43 -!- johnzlly [~johnzlly@user/johnzlly] has joined #openbsd 13:46 < mischief> it's certainly.. offtopic so i apologize but it's relevant for anyone who dares feed the ai centipede. all io will feed right back in unless you 'opt out' which i'm wary of even working https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/updates-to-github-copilot-interaction-data-usage-policy/ 13:46 -!- rc [~rc@user/rc] has quit [Quit: nyaa~] 13:48 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 13:51 < morpho> can chat in -social 13:51 < polarian> I dont see AI as a problem to be honest. The whole reason it seems like a giant problem is because IP/copyright have no foundation, its a made up concept 13:51 < polarian> so thats why its puzzling people 13:51 < polarian> how do you apply a made up concept with no foundations to a new concept? you cant. 13:52 < morpho> with the state of silicon wafer supply lines... 13:52 < polarian> at the very basis copyright/IP is just criminalising knowledge, you can't do something because someone else thought of it first, and thus you must pay them? 13:52 < polarian> seems ridiculous because it is 13:53 < polarian> morpho: meh, market will be market, wait until the bubble bursts and all that server hardware floods the market and is dirt cheap :) 13:53 < morpho> its not that 13:53 < polarian> what problem you referring to then? 13:55 < morpho> there was a helium factory that was hit in qatar 13:55 < morpho> refinery w/e 13:55 < morpho> they supply taiwan 13:55 < phy1729> Wildly off topic 13:55 < morpho> sry 13:56 < polarian> apologies 13:57 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:57 -!- oldlaptop [~oldlaptop@45.63.78.126] has left #openbsd [http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. 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He prefers MIT licensing and equates Gates and Stallman in "they both want something in return": https://world.hey.com/dhh/i-won-t-let-you-pay-me-for-my-open-source-d7cf4568 17:15 < Bradipo> DHH? 17:16 < cgnarne> the ruby on rails guy 17:16 < avemestr> "Both Gates and Stallman built their life’s work on the back of copyright law. One with the right to extract gobs of money from his proprietary software monopoly. The other with the right to extract contributions and distribution concessions from users of his open source software." 17:17 < avemestr> OpenBSDs approach is much preferable IMHO. 17:20 < sibiria> he is absolutely right. GPL isn't freedom, because it ties the hands of developers behind their backs 17:21 < thrig> freedom is slavery. war is peace. 17:22 -!- gbon121 [~bxg7@user/gbon121] has joined #openbsd 17:24 < oldlaptop> and the ISC license requires distribution 17:24 -!- chilledfrogs [~chilledfr@rsa59-h05-176-133-210-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr] 17:26 -!- paulf [~paulf@146.122.203.34] has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:28 -!- chilledfrogs [~chilledfr@176-133-210-176.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #openbsd 17:30 -!- megawatt [~megawatt@user/megawatt] has joined #openbsd 17:33 -!- sibiria [~sibiria@user/sibiria] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:39 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 17:41 -!- sibiria [~sibiria@user/sibiria] has joined #openbsd 17:43 < ssm_> I don't care about the licensing, I use openbsd for other reasons 17:43 < ssm_> DHH gets the wall 17:45 < fro> what's DHH 17:46 -!- dogg0 [~dogg0@user/dogg0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46 -!- dogg0 [~dogg0@user/dogg0] has joined #openbsd 17:47 < ssm_> I am biased here is a biased source: https://davidcel.is/articles/rails-needs-new-governance. If you want an "unbiased" source, here's a horses mouth: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 17:48 < ssm_> IE annoying individual who made something important and uses it to platform their unrelated opinions 17:48 < fro> man i aint reading all that 17:49 < ssm_> (if you consider RoR important I suppose ...>_>) 17:49 < phy1729> Also not a dev, so not topical here 17:49 < fro> yeah i dunno what this has to do with openbsd 17:51 < ssm_> "gobbels has an interesting opinion" "I don't think gobbels is a cool guy and I think you're platforming him" "hey don't talk about turbohitler it has nothing to do with , ontopic for thee not for me" 17:51 < ssm_> whatever I'm going under a rock 17:51 < ssm_> -s/turbohitler/gobbels/ 17:52 < phy1729> I'm not constantly looking at the channel, so I don't catch everything 17:53 -!- Guest7741 [~jj@c66.it.su.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53 -!- bsubio [~wkoszek@192.210.185.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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245 seconds] 18:19 -!- ivdsangen [~ivo@83-82-34-145.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:20 -!- bsubio [~wkoszek@192.210.185.229] has joined #openbsd 18:25 -!- bsubio [~wkoszek@192.210.185.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25 -!- bsubio [~wkoszek@192.210.185.229] has joined #openbsd 18:25 -!- ewig`` [~ewig`@user/ewig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 < fro> no reason to be sarcastic 18:26 < fro> there's clearly room for improvement 18:26 < fro> happens all the time 18:27 < fro> imagine paying attention to something you're supposed to be paying attention to 18:29 -!- Chewbakka85 [~chewy@irc.chewbakka.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:29 -!- Wateir [~m-c5gjhm@user/Wateir] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29 -!- bsubio [~wkoszek@192.210.185.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:31 -!- bsubio [~wkoszek@192.210.185.229] has joined #openbsd 18:31 -!- Wateir [~m-c5gjhm@user/Wateir] has joined #openbsd 18:35 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