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00:08 < rtj> no but that sounds cool
00:08 < rtj> blog is up if you do it
00:08 < rtj> plz
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02:00 < mischief> hrm. reading /usr/share/snmp/mibs/OPENBSD-RELAYD-MIB.txt there is no entry for bytes/requests etc per session, so maybe this doesn't do what i want.
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02:02 < thrig> I never managed to setup a working snmp anything
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02:04 < mischief> it certainly has that unique 90s smell to it
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09:07 < minall> Hello OpenBSD Community!
09:07 < minall> I'm checking right now my situation where in a specific laptop, using the msk driver, probably crashes at a point as it works at first, I can autoconf it, I can get an IP address. But when I use it it seizes working
09:08 < minall> Using sh /netstart doesn't do anything, and the ip address is configured until I restart something and then it just hangs in there, can't communicate to it
09:08 < minall> I booted into Linux and it works perfectly, so this should be a weird bug
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09:09 < minall> I'm not much accustomed into debugging this type of special files, but I'm eager to learn. So far I read intro(4), and saw that the tree is... PCI -> msk (quite simple), saw the options that msk has, used autoselect and others...
09:09 < minall> Hmm I could test other options 
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09:09 < minall> And right now I went through boot_config to turn on verbose output.
09:10 < minall> Any idea on what I could debug and/learn would be amazing. As I want to catch the output of what the msk driver is doing
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09:17 < gbon121> minall: try to compare interface configuration between obsd and linux: ifconfig -a (on obsd, both when working and not working); on linux, use mii-tool or ethtool to see the negotiated media type
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09:17 < gbon121> mind the MTU in both OS
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09:18 < minall> That's good
09:19 < minall> Okay I'm booting the device with Linux in order to get this information. Perhaps the msk driver is trying to use a negotiation type that this device does not handle... It is pretty old
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09:31 < IcePic> once upon a time, SysKonnect were very highly regarded, as one of the good early gig capable chipsets
09:31 < IcePic> I even remember buying such cards for Solaris/Sparc boxes
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09:40 < mischief> its probably a driver bug
09:40 < mischief> you can check maybe ifconfig -I and watch for when the packets stop flowing
09:41 < mischief> perhaps also vmstat -i to see the interrupts of the nic.. if the interrupts stop thats certainly a sign
09:44 < mischief> also not trying to be rude but if its still the HP 6830s you are better off throwing away that machine and spending $100 on ebay for a used machine.
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09:44 < IcePic> the driver has a define for MSK_DEBUG one could set while recompiling the kernel, which could possibly give more info
09:44 < IcePic> https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/checkout/src/sys/dev/pci/if_msk.c,v?rev=1.145
09:45 < minall> wtf
09:45 < minall> So I gathered the information from Linux, saw that the MTU is the same and whatver
09:46 < minall> I also used verbose when booting just in case...
09:46 < minall> And now it is working :D, not even a package download worked at all. Now it works correctly
09:46 < IcePic> minall: we sent positive vibes in your general direction ;)
09:46 < minall> mischief, IcePic: THanks for the details I will continue debugging
09:46 < minall> Thanks!
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09:47 < minall> Also, mischief you're 100% right, I will actually buy an used thinkpad soon. Now, I saw this strange bug and I find it as a way to understanding more about the system so, is just a little experiment
09:48 < minall> Is there anything that Linux could do to wake the device
09:48 < minall> HAHAH I'm talking nonsense
09:48 < minall> It just doesn't make sense. Now everything is working even faster
09:48 < minall> Probably some hardware fault 
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09:49 < IcePic> minall: its not impossible for some cards to behave differenly after reboots
09:49 < gbon121> minall, if you booted linux then warm-rebooted to openbsd, perhaps linux did program the card "the right way", and that survived the reboot.  try to discover 1. if linux loads some firmware blob 2. if the media type as seen from openbsd is the same when booted from power-off and when rebooted after linux
09:52 < IcePic> yeah. in this case I don't think msk needed firmware, but its not 100% a bad theory
09:53 < mischief> its possible linux programmed configured registers and left them in the good state for openbsd
09:53 < minall> msk shouldn't need firmware as IcePic mentions. the wifi does though. I'm more on the behaving different after reboots... I'm rebooting again without verbose
09:54 < mischief> if you want a thinkpad though, check ebay or i will sell you one of mine
09:54 < mischief> i need to get rid of my collection
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09:54 < IcePic> perhaps a timing bug, where "VERBOSE" does printfs at various times and hence makes the timing race error not occur
09:55 < IcePic> "Heisen-bugs"
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09:56 < mischief> my x301 is pining for a home, i have neglected it since i've been using my a485 for -current
09:58 < mischief> it does work fine with openbsd, and 9front, on a modded ssd for it's 1.8" slot :-)
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09:59 < minall> mischief: Do you send to Europe Union
10:00 < mischief> it can be arranged if you pm me, but you are better off looking locally because of shipping costs
10:00 < IcePic> yeah, 2nd-hand sites often have decent laptops at decent prices
10:01 < IcePic> there is a (seemingly) huge market for refurbished machines and if you look for ordinary types (ie, x86_64) there is no shortage of used machines to buy
10:01 < mischief> even like thinkpad x250 is close to 100 euro on ebay.co.uk, not that far out of reach for many
10:01 < IcePic> now if those sites could sell me a cheap obsd-supported amd64 laptop or so, then it would be interesting ;)
10:02 < IcePic> bah
10:02 < IcePic> arm64
10:03 < IcePic> I really hoped people would buy arm64 laptops, get disappointed and then "kid could not play roblox or fortnite on it, selling it cheap"
10:03 < IcePic> just like when vista started requiring signed video drivers and there were no signed drivers for the ati rage 4M that "all" server boxes used to make simple console gfx
10:04 < mischief> unfortunately the same root problem is behind 'openbsd developer could not support it'
10:04 < quinq> jaja
10:05 < mischief> imgtec gpu, qualcom wifi or coprocessor bs, all closed
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10:07 < mischief> even s/qualcomm/broadcomm for some of the systems
10:08 < mischief> the root problem remains, all the docs are behind nda
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10:09 < mischief> my friend is a big supporter for mnt reform, if there was some openbsd support i would be too
10:10 < mischief> i don't have the cojones to work on it personally but it's these types of open source hardware that will likely be the future
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10:54 < minall> I'm here once again confused
10:55 < minall> It worked for some minutes and then stopped working again
10:55 < minall> :D
10:55 < minall> So Linux is making it work for some time?
10:55 < minall> The only way of setting MSK_DEBUG is recompiling the kernel right?
10:58 < gbon121> is the media type the same in openbsd and linux?
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11:15 < minall> gbon121: Actually I just noticed that... When I booted from Linux to OpenBSD while it was working, it was selecting 1000BaseT
11:15 < minall> Sorry, it was selectin 100BaseT
11:15 < minall> But when I rebooted and died, it was using 1000BaseT
11:16 < minall> So Right now I set 100BaseT manually and am testing to see if it dies, it is going pretty well.
11:16 < minall> The MTU is the same btw. 150
11:16 < minall> /s/150/1500
11:19 < minall> It appears to be that honestly
11:19 < gbon121> you can try to pin the mediatype in the config file
11:19 < minall> When it was working on OpenBSD, it was using 1000BaseT, and there it died. on 100BaseT (the one linux was using) it works. 
11:20 < minall> gbon121: What do you mean pin the mediatype in the config file?... Right now I really want to set the MSK_DEBUG flag, but I think I need to rebuild the kernel. Something I still haven't done so I'm reading on it.
11:20 < minall> Just to see how it goes
11:21 < minall> And honestly, I wonder how much it would affect that there were errors in msk, because I could swear the laptop was not responding that much when I had this issue, right now I am able to call whatever and it works perfectly. 
11:21 < minall> For example, me calling pkg_add would result it in hanging forever. Trying to open an app like firefox would also hang for some time
11:22 < minall> When I set the msk correctly, not only internet works, but the system overall responsiveness is better
11:23 < minall> But I don't know if that makes sens until I debug further. I thinkkk I have to rebuild kernel though, so I will be reading on it until I understand it
11:24 < gbon121> I assume you have a /etc/hostname.msk0 where the configuration is stored. perhaps you can force the media type to 100BaseT in that file.  perhaps the interface mis-negotiates with the switch/router, or there is a bug (as IcePic said) in the driver that only shows up at higher throughputs.
11:28 < minall> gbon121: Yes, well right now it is not on hostname.msk0 but manually. And it is working under a youtube video. 
11:29 < minall> Now, it may be placebo, but I could swear that calling things like pkg_add, or opening an app like firefox or emacs would result in it can be hanged there
11:29 < minall> Now with this configured correctly, it would open the app (after some seconds, as it is an old laptop)
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11:30 < minall> I could leave it like that 
11:30 < minall> But I can't miss the chance of learning how to debug even further. Is my only option to rebuild the kernel with this flag, so that I can see further what msk0 is doing?
11:30 < minall> And seeing if this may possibly affect the overall performance of the machine, or give me issues elsewhere?
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11:31 < minall> (I haven't rebuild the kernel yet). Though everything learned about comparing the media type as well as the MTU was extremely valuable, so thanks!
11:31 < minall> I'm at the, should I rebuild or can I see even more without entering the code?... If I have to enter it well, I may as well do it in this strange situation in order to learn
11:32 < pardis> why not just rebuild it and find out what you see?
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11:33 < minall> pardis: Cause I have never rebuild it. Is what reading about and will do of course
11:34 < minall> In my mind it is like, getting my current kernel, setting the flag in some way and then  in the boot menu choose it
11:34 < minall> But I don't have it clear yet, so I'm reading the man pages about it
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17:57 < vortexx> minall's issue sounds like a) bad cable b) bad port on switch. Easier to test than recompiling a kernel
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18:07  * oldlaptop mutters something about "horses, not zebras"
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19:47 < NoobProg2026> dead chat
19:49 < zcram> quiet is good, there are no ongoing complaints
19:49 < quinq> Objection!
19:49 < NoobProg2026> age verification!
19:49 < thrig> or folks are tired out from copyright bikeshedding
19:50 < fro> overruled
19:50 -!- stuart [~stuart@2001:4091:a246:8112:1980:da66:351e:61aa] has joined #openbsd
19:51 < quinq> :(
19:53 < vortexx> quiet chat is there's no ongoing issues needing hashing out
19:54 < vortexx> didn't have time to do an openbsd upgrade demonstration today, too many other issues to deal with at the FOSS day
19:58 -!- stuart [~stuart@2001:4091:a246:8112:1980:da66:351e:61aa] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
19:58 < vortexx> (only 2 of us at times, we nearly got overwhelmed with post install issues)
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20:02 < supaman> foss day?
20:02 < fro> yeah i dunno what this is either
20:03 < vortexx> free / open source day
20:03 < fro> that doesn't really clear anything up
20:03 < supaman> is that like an event in a specific location or just something some people made up?
20:04 < vortexx> it's a day we do monthly locally to help people install / use better linux and others and also do a workshop / presentation on privacy online
20:04 < supaman> nice
20:05 < vortexx> from wikipedia FOSS=Free & Open Source Software
20:06 < fro> FOSS wasn't the issue of my not understanding
20:06 < fro> it's the randomness of mentioning the day as if everyone already knows what it is
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20:07 < vortexx> we do this monthly and try to do it every last saturday
20:08 < fro> yeah but everyone isn't local to you
20:08 < vortexx> only been doing it since last October and I joined in November
20:08 < vortexx> of course not many are local to me
20:08 < supaman> where in the world is this happening? :-)
20:08 < fro> i'm just saying it was completely out of context
20:08 < thrig> remember, remember the FOSS of november
20:08 < fro> i'm not trying to be mean to you
20:08 < fro> just didn't make sense
20:09 < vortexx> spent a couple of hours trying to get this working: https://shop.crealogix.com/de/payeye.html and counld't, even with the weird adapter they sell
20:09 < vortexx> sure
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20:10 < fro> that does look weird
20:10 < vortexx> supaman: Val-de-Travers Switzerland
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20:10 < supaman> vortexx: ahh, well good for you guys, keep up spreading the word
20:10 < vortexx> it's a QR code scanner, which in .ch we've been using for bills for about 5 years and this usb device allows rapid scanning of paper QR bills
20:10 < vortexx> supaman: we try :)
20:11 < vortexx> and I *really* want to show them OpenBSD next time
20:12 < vortexx> also a fablab (hardware hackerspace) in a neighbouring town has contacted us to see start doing the same thing so we're going to go help out next month if all works out
20:13 < supaman> sounds really good, I used to do stuff like this back in the late 90's early 00's it was fun.
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20:15 < vortexx> yeah it's fun but you'd be surprised by the average age of those interested
20:15 < vortexx> what got the team going was the end of support for win10
20:15 < supaman> suspected as much
20:16 < vortexx> that weird QR code reader is basically meant to be recognized as a keyboard and feed a stream of text
20:16 < rIMpossible> Hello, I found this notebook https://www.refurbed.be/p/lenovo-tp-t495s-ryzen-3700u/178795/?offer=18884926 and I am asking, if it is fully supported by OpenBSD 7.8 ? It is a 2019 model Specs here https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T495s/ThinkPad_T495s_Spec.pdf
20:17 -!- stuart [~stuart@2001:4091:a246:8112:1980:da66:351e:61aa] has joined #openbsd
20:17 < vortexx> especially with the Plug'n'Play Base attached in between it and the computer. Yet linux mint wouldn't see it nor would ubuntu
20:17 < vortexx> strange
20:18 < rIMpossible> vortexx: supaman: sorry for the noise
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20:18 < vortexx> rIMpossible: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/dmesgd?do=view&id=5464 looks supported as of 6.7
20:19 < supaman> rIMpossible: I don't think OpenBSD can say that laptop A or B are fully supported, you would either have to ask someone who has run OpenBSD on that type of laptop or go through each component and see if that is supported
20:19 < vortexx> rIMpossible: your questions are full on-topic unlike my description of a day installing or configuring linux and related stuff don't worry
20:19 < rIMpossible> vortexx: Are all the T4xx and T5xx series models supported?
20:20 < vortexx> rIMpossible: bit hard to say, but dmesgd can tell you model by model so long as someone has shared over there
20:20 < vortexx> usual caveats: no bluetooth, maybe wifi doesn't work
20:21 < vortexx> but that can probably be swapped
20:23 < vortexx> we're lucky, we found a local restaurant with a backroom we can use "for free" so long as we order drinks and eat there at midday (for a pretty decent price). 
20:24 -!- ivdsangen [~ivo@83-82-34-145.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:24 < vortexx> although where I live is a united local council of 9 villages and I'm pushing (once I've priced it properly) to go to each village so people with no transport can come over
20:24 < rIMpossible> vortexx: as always: marvelous answer. Thank you. I will consult the dmesgd, you mentioned earlier
20:24 < vortexx> most of those who came are retired
20:24 < sibiria> rIMpossible: my work computer is the T495 and i tested openbsd on it only briefly, minus wi-fi, and it worked fine
20:24 < vortexx> rIMpossible: you're welcome as usual :)
20:24 < rIMpossible> vortexx: :)
20:25 < rIMpossible> sibiria: so wi-fi did not work or you did not test?
20:25 < sibiria> i did not test
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20:26 < rIMpossible> sibiria: I try to find out from dmesgd
20:27 < supaman> hu, thos refurbed.be missed a chance there ... refur.be
20:28 < vortexx> rIMpossible: if the dmesg has a MAC address in it the driver should work, but then your AP may be the issue... All the usual problems
20:28 < vortexx> supaman: lol
20:28 < rIMpossible> supaman: claim it and sell it to them
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20:29 < sibiria> the wifi in it sits on an M.2 port, and lenovo's bios whitelists a couple of different intel and realtek options. i'm sure you can find something that works even if the bundled one does not
20:29 < rIMpossible> vortexx: I have a PCengines APU2b4
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20:29 < sibiria> realtek + ralink
20:30 < sibiria> lots of options for older iwn(4) and iwm(4), and newer iwx(4) support is getting better
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20:33 < rIMpossible> sibiria: in my apu2 I have a athn(4) Atheros AR9280
20:34 < rIMpossible> my Toshiba Portege Z930 has a iwn(4) driver and that works quite well
20:35 < vortexx> rIMpossible: I've had very poor experience with athn on APU2B4 as an AP
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20:36 < vortexx> and today it wouldn't connect to the local wifi (which it had before)
20:36 < vortexx> need to open it up to check the cabling but it's not a good sign
20:36 -!- morpho [~morpho@2a03:6000:76f1:639::49] has joined #openbsd
20:37 < vortexx> (acting as an ethernet router with wifi uplink)
20:37 < vortexx> (worked last month)
20:37 < rIMpossible> I am using it also as uplink for 2 devices and as router for printer and other devices
20:38 < rIMpossible> wifi-U/L
20:40 < rIMpossible> Looking at dmesgd, the internal wifi seems not to be supported. So I need to change the card
20:42 < rIMpossible> Hmmm, there is a second dmesg, same page. There it works. Looks like before/after fw_update ...
20:43 < vortexx> yeah you have to check the very bottom of the dmesg to see if it got supported
20:44 < rIMpossible> vortexx: yeah, my bad. First time at dmesgd 
20:46 < vortexx> don't worry, they often get collated
20:47 < rIMpossible> I think I will give the notebook a try. Good specs, nice price
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20:52 < sibiria> rIMpossible: if it matters to you, Lenovo really cuts corners and saves money on their office/T series. mine is rickety, cheaply made, and the display is very poor
20:52 < sibiria> pale and dull, not a pleasure to use for anything where you might want to enjoy a vivid image or video
20:52 < sibiria> OK as a work computer but that's about it
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20:55 < rIMpossible> sibiria: I want to use it for freecad, once a week a 1.5h video stream and a bit developing, no gaming
21:06 < sibiria> morpho: i kinda zoned out yesterday after work and forgot to reconnect with you on the wireguard thing. did you get it to work or would you still like my setup as a reference?
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21:28 < oldlaptop> <sibiria> rIMpossible: if it matters to you, Lenovo really cuts corners and saves money on their office/T series. mine is rickety, cheaply made, and the display is very poor
21:28 < oldlaptop> generally speaking that will *not* be true of the "good" thinkpads (pretty much foo bridge or older now, probably?) - with the notable exception that a *whole* lot of those floating around out there have truly miserable displays
21:29 < oldlaptop> (they should at least be mechanically pretty darn solid)
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21:30 < thrig> a lemon is just a lemonoid in the category of enshittificatiors
21:30 < oldlaptop> the newer ones I've had hands on are... well, at least easier to work on than the rickety, cheaply-made consumer laptops
21:30 < sibiria> i used to have an old thinkpad, the core 2 duo generation, T420? or so. its display was *far* better
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21:31 < oldlaptop> T420 is Sandy Bridge. Last *really* good generation (before the heretical, wicked keyboard layouts began)
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21:31 < oldlaptop> Core2 would be T6x
21:31 < sibiria> it was definitely Txxx
21:31 < oldlaptop> (the oldest T60/X60 machines are "Core Duo", not even core2 - meaning two Pentium Ms on one die)
21:32 < oldlaptop> Decent displays *were* made for them (I have one), but an awful lot of them are the cheapest, lousiest 1366x768 panels they could find
21:32 < oldlaptop> (even on the T520, meaning 15")
21:33 < oldlaptop> I think T400/500 were still core2 - nehalem was IIRC [TW][45]10
21:35 < oldlaptop> (W5?0 will generally be pretty darn good panels, but also will pretty much always have an nvidia paperweight on board - I can specifically say W520 cannot do external display output on openbsd because the nvidia paperweight is all that's wired up to the external outputs. Unbelievably they work out of the box on linux - can't imagine how many headaches the nouveau people et. al. had to have for that.)
21:39 < rIMpossible> oldlaptop: thank you for the excessive resume
21:39 < rIMpossible> and experience
21:40 < thrig> all these moments... lost... like T410s, in the rain
21:41 < oldlaptop> thinkpads are definitely not the right choice for the rain
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21:42 < avemestr> IIRC Thinkpads have always been a display lottery... Same model, different production batches, different displays. I recall even selecting IPS over TN was not a guarantee because they had multiple IPS suppliers etc.
21:42 < thrig> Dell and others are also fond of switching components randomly
21:45 < avemestr> Yep... I still swear by Thinkpads (X and T mostly)... Not because they're perfect, but because they seem to be better than the competition on the same downward slope.
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21:45 < rIMpossible> https://bsd.ac/d0134xr :-)
21:46 < jmcunx> oldlaptop: Is this using a dock ?  My W541 works fine with an external display.  But I do not use a dock, instead I plug the monitor directly into the VGA port
21:47 < oldlaptop> jmcunx: No dock, no. The exact details of how 'switchable graphics' are wired up vary wildly even within the same generation - e.g. I'm given to understand a T420/520 with switchable graphics would have the VGA output connected to the intel GPU and the DP output connected to the NVIDIA one. W520 has only the internal display connected to the intel GPU.
21:48 < oldlaptop> My loose understanding is that the trend eventually moved towards not having the nvidia GPU actually connected to any display output at all.
21:49 < jmcunx> I would think the W541 would have more issues, strange
21:49 < avemestr> vortexx: In the olden days (~20-25 years ago) we called such events "install fest" or "install party". I think it was partly due to the physical distribution of install media was more prevalent back then. Every Monday I go to a local event where people can get FOSS (install) help, where I gently push OpenBSD, but seldom new people nowadays.
21:49 < jmcunx> W54* removed the option to disable Nvidia, IIRC from work W530 had that option
21:49 < avemestr> vortexx: Though the whole "digital sovereignity" movement seems to have rekindled "install parties" to a certain degree.
21:49 < oldlaptop> rIMpossible: I wonder why the lie machine doesn't care about anything before T61. (Except X60, for some reason.)
21:51 < rIMpossible> oldlaptop: I filtered for OpenBSD Lenovo and it gave these results, which it processed
21:51 < jmcunx> But IIRC, work techs said Nvidia is needed when using a dock
21:51 < avemestr> oldlaptop: Do you have experience with the "efficiency cores" on modern Intel CPUs and OpenBSD? I'm under the impression that OpenBSD is not aware (just sees performance and efficiency cores as the same) and it's one of the reasons I've stuck with AMD based computers.
21:51 < rIMpossible> avemestr: you got me at install parties 
21:52 < oldlaptop> avemestr: No.
21:52 < oldlaptop> I'm not likely ever to pay good money for a machine new enough to have those.
21:53 < oldlaptop> (Maybe a so-called "thinkpad" if it were really, really necessary. Though even those are starting to lose the trackpoint, which is minimum price of entry around here.)
21:55 < oldlaptop> <jmcunx> But IIRC, work techs said Nvidia is needed when using a dock
21:55 < oldlaptop> That's plausible, at least for some specific model. (I'd expect it to vary from model to model - possibly even within the same generation.)
21:58 < avemestr> oldlaptop: Fair!
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21:59 < jmcunx> oldlaptop: True, I never used a dock even at work, so I had no way to validate that
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22:05 < avemestr> jmcunx: FWIW, I connect OpenBSD devices to an Eizo EV2795 monitor with a built-in USB hub, speakers (I'm not using), and LAN docking station. No problem. It connects with a single USB-C cable to OpenBSD devices (AMD-based mini-pc, multiple AMD Thinkpads).
22:06 < avemestr> Even daisy chaining two of those monitors Just Worked (haven't tried with 3+) with OpenBSD.
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22:26 < chisa> Hello everyone
22:30 < chisa> does anyone here sometimes have trouble running Firefox? I mean, most of the time it opens quickly, but on others it just takes too long
22:31 < oldlaptop> Can you define "too long"?
22:32 < oldlaptop> Depending on the timescale, that could be normal behavior (warm versus cold disk cache, or maybe the difference between actually *starting* firefox and opening a window in an existing instance)
22:32 < chisa> more then 30 seconds (bear in mind that usually it opens within 8 seconds or so)
22:34 < chisa> I know it's normal for it to take a little longer on its first start, but there's times it takes a lot to open even though i already opened it earlier in the day
22:39 < avemestr> chisa: What kind of machine? Is it busy doing something else? It might be worthwhile checking resource limits in /etc/login.conf (e.g. if the user in question is member of staff and have sufficient ressources).
22:41 < chisa> A Ryzen 3 CPU with 8G of RAM. It happenned twice already, and i had nothing open except for weechat. Well, i never checked resource limits so i might need to tweak with that
22:41 < chisa> There's times when it happens with nothing else running
22:41 < chisa> Except for the Window Manager, of course
22:47 < chisa> what is odd is that it happens randomly. But as i said before, it opens quickly most of the time
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22:51 < mischief> could it somehow be dns
22:51 -!- fflam [~mdt@2600:4040:10f9:6b00::1c19] has joined #openbsd
22:54 < tvtoon> you bet it can, firefox uses a default page that does lot of unwanted connections, including directly calls to DNS
22:55 -!- foul_owl [~kerry@94.156.149.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:00 < sibiria> it's not dns. i have the same behavior with a very strapped-down firefox
23:01 < chisa> yes, my firefox has all this disabled
23:01 < chisa> start page
23:01 < sibiria> on openbsd it just loads for several seconds before it manifests the window
23:01 < chisa> history, and etc
23:01 < sibiria> usually 6-7 seconds start time for me, on a decently fast ryzen zen 3
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23:19 < thrig> vim starting in 30 milliseconds is way the heck too slow
23:21 < sudden> chisa: I had the same problem on Debian, removing package `xdg-dbus-proxy` and `xdg-desktop-portal` fixed it for me. Maybe that'll give you a lead.
23:23 < sudden> I say it's the same problem because it always took exactly 30 seconds for firefox to open.
23:25 < thrig> ktrace may show what it is stuck on, assuming the needle is actually logged
23:25 < sibiria> dbus is a contributing turd, too
23:27 < chisa> Thanks for the lead, guys. Will check everything you pointed out. Seems to be a common issue, though
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 29 00:00:09 2026