--- Log opened Wed Apr 22 00:00:13 2026
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02:06 < rtj> vortexx: we attempted to start a linux users group back on our local dialup forums. We could not get any other folks interested back then.
02:07 < rtj> i like how it lists the groups on the site, that's cool
02:07 < rtj> if I was closer to Atlanta I'd start one
02:08 < rtj> They have a Linux users group for GA Tech. I have never went to a meeting though. I think it's open to the public.
02:08 < rtj> polarian: hello <3
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02:34  * loopb coughs
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05:59 < lts> I'm considering setting up vaultwarden on openbsd. -current seems to be well up to date (1.35.7), but the port in 7.8 is at 1.34.3 and hasn't received an update despite plenty of security fixes in 1.35.x releases (https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden/releases). Shouldn't such fixes be imported also to -release?
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06:48 < lts> Ah nevermind, openbsd.app was just wrong. The 7.8 port is at 1.35.4
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06:55 < lts> qbit: Are you the same qbit who runs openbsd.app? :-) Something might be failing with the data updates
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06:56 < nacelle> does karl impact sshd somehow?
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06:56 < nacelle> I've run md5, sha256, etc. against /usr/sbin/sshd on multiple boxes and they all have different signatures - but are otherwise at the same patchlevel.
06:57 < nacelle> that doesnt smell right :(
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06:58 < nacelle> ah ldd says it prrobably is
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07:03 < IcePic> nacelle: yes, not karl in itself, but sshd gets relinked at boot
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07:04 < IcePic> karl is kernel random stuff, right? But the ordering of libs and objects in sshd, libc and other things get redone on every boot
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07:07 < IcePic> nacelle: the boot goes something like this:
07:07 < IcePic> starting network
07:07 < IcePic> reordering: ld.so libc libcrypto sshd sshd-session sshd-auth ssh-agent.
07:07 < IcePic> starting early daemons: syslogd pflogd ntpd.
07:10 < quinq> You're booted now
07:10 < nacelle> ty
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09:04 < renaud> mischief: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/4538b760
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09:54 < polarian> rtj: hey
09:54 < polarian> vortexx: ooo swiss, you must have a lot of cash :p
09:54 < polarian> well correct, you used to have a lot of cash >:)
09:56 < polarian> Must be nice living near the alps, UK is a whole bunch of hills :p
09:56  * polarian likes hiking
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10:00 < renaud> you earn more in Switzerland but life is also more expensive
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10:05 < renaud> wow, 11 CVE for dnsdist in a row
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10:12 < rtj> id love to leave usa
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10:13 < sibiria> renaud: otto@ mulching his code through mythos?
10:13 < renaud> if he's lucky enough to have access to that
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10:15 < morpho> is there some program to help usaicans
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10:16 < sibiria> rtj: while USA's situation almost warrants refugee status for expats, you're unfortunately a wee bit too late to join the "big wave" when europe let anything and anyone in
10:16 < sibiria> but don't hesitate to try!
10:17 < rtj> don't worry i can teleport like a mage
10:17 < morpho> its not better anywhere else tbh
10:17 < rtj> it's just very toxic. that's all I will say
10:18 < sibiria> pretend you're french canadian and want to return to the motherland
10:18 < rtj> thank god for puffy to keep me distracted
10:18 < rtj> :)
10:18 < morpho> theo lost darpa funding due to comments about the iran-american war
10:18 < rtj> are you kidding?
10:19 < sibiria> he also rejected pentagon funding ages ago over similar political stance
10:19 < morpho> this was 2003
10:19 < sibiria> so in a way, nothing new
10:19 < rtj> oh ok
10:19 < rtj> well i hope everybody has a good day
10:19 < sibiria> but the openbsd foundation is doing great. piles of cash
10:20 < sibiria> it's alright so far. i'm just sitting here injecting a double espresso into my arm and getting ready to do some work
10:20 < renaud> sibiria: if you don't speak french, they won't let you go to Canada easily I guess
10:20 < rtj> they got stacks on puffer fish needles, not decks
10:20 < sibiria> renaud: i keep hearing from non-french-canadians in the area that french canadians are awful
10:20 < morpho> being from louissana might help
10:21 < polarian> sibiria: I thought the foundation was struggling
10:21 < renaud> I know from friends who wanted to go to Canada that they are very likely to accept anyone who speaks french fluently
10:21 < polarian> I wouldn't say Canada is much better...
10:21 < sibiria> polarian: at half a million dollars annually? well i don't know how many bills they have to pay, but...
10:21 < polarian> Canada has their own set of issues
10:22 < morpho> i had a few friends go to canada
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10:22 < morpho> there was a good window where it was easy
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10:26 < sibiria> polarian: they always hit their goal, and on average more than 30% above
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10:27 < polarian> hmmm
10:27 < polarian> welp I have been fed incorrect info then 
10:28 < polarian> I guess I wont donate to OpenBSD then /j
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10:29 < morpho> what?!
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10:31 < polarian> twas a joke morpho 
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10:35 < IcePic> I'm glad the foundation makes it work out, lets those hackathons go on every year
10:36 < polarian> I wonder if a friend of mine will be invited to a super secret hackathon 
10:37 < polarian> they seemed to have interested one of the OpenBSD devs
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10:37 < renaud> hackathons are not secret
10:37 < polarian> renaud: I know
10:37 < polarian> but attending is invite-only :D
10:37 < polarian> its an exclusive club only for the best of OpenBSD hackers :p
10:38 < polarian> I heard they drink venues dry too
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10:38 < polarian> IcePic: we did that in Zagreb :D
10:39 < polarian> Some of the OpenBSD people had already had multiple beers by the time I turned up to the social event, and I went pretty much at opening xDDDD
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10:53 < morpho> is there any uk user groups
10:53 < morpho> i always end up missing the hackathons
10:53 < polarian> morpho: hackathons for OpenBSD are invite only afaik
10:53 < polarian> and there is no BUG 
10:54 < polarian> I was going to form a BUG last yr
10:54 < polarian> but I have been held back on some infrastructure
10:54 < polarian> more specifically, a server I was going to use for the infra decided to kill itself
10:55 < morpho> how much infra do you need
10:55 < polarian> the main reason for the BUG was to be able to easily email/message UK based BSD folks, which right now is almost impossible
10:55 < polarian> morpho: long story :D
10:55 < polarian> there was BUGs before, but they disappeared due to infrastructure
10:55 < morpho> ive seen a rover with a freebsd sticker on it
10:55 < polarian> same thing happened to most UK LUGs
10:55 < polarian> so I want the infra to be ironclad
10:55 < sibiria> curious that even the LUGs disappear
10:56 < polarian> sibiria: I did chase some of them, people said "now Linux is used in daily life its no longer fit for purpose" which is total BS IMO
10:56 < polarian> people still want to meetup and chat, and Linux is used a lot on servers, but you seldom see many people use Linux as a daily driver still
10:56 < morpho> also seen an openbsd graffiti tags?
10:56 < polarian> to "battle" is no where near from over
10:56 < morpho> in the wild
10:56 < polarian> morpho: no?
10:57 < morpho> i saw one
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10:58 < morpho> tbh i was suprised a lot of these hackerspaces and stuff use mostly windows and mac
10:58 < morpho> makerspaces
10:59 < polarian> morpho: yeah I looked into hackerspaces too, they are all makerspaces now
10:59 < polarian> I had a rather hostile comment made by the London Hackspace
10:59 < polarian> they accused me of trying to leech 
10:59 < polarian> when I joined their IRC to ask about it
11:00 < morpho> leech what?
11:00 < polarian> made me feel like "pay now, experience later" and then when I realised they were quite hostile to Linux users I just left and never returned
11:00 < polarian> morpho: I was asking if you could meet people before paying the membership fee
11:00 < polarian> like see what its like
11:00 < polarian> and there was an open day and stuff which is what thats for
11:00 < polarian> but idk some of the users are arseholes, mainly because I said i didnt use Discord and they mainly use Discord
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11:01 < morpho> i wont say anything bad about my local one but im not suprised to hear that
11:01 < polarian> theres no nixy hackerspaces in London, or in the South, I checked some of the midlands, but quite frankly I gave up
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11:01 < morpho> i heard londoners are rude
11:01 < polarian> xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
11:01 < polarian> stereotyping much? :p
11:01 < morpho> i feel like postman pat when i visit
11:01 < polarian> Londoners are very different to a lot of others
11:01 < sibiria> capital city phenomenon. it's like that in every country :p
11:02 < polarian> Northerners tend to be very friendly and chatty
11:02 < sibiria> berlin... stockholm... paris...
11:02 < polarian> Birmingham too to some extent
11:02 < polarian> Londoners and Southerns are reserved
11:02 < polarian> only speaking when absolutely required
11:02 < polarian> and can be very direct
11:02 < polarian> it doesn't mean Londoners and South East are "rude" it is simply just how its done down here
11:02 < morpho> hrmm
11:03 < polarian> culture I guess
11:03 < morpho> see, i find geordies and scousers to be more direct
11:03 < polarian> maybe... I dont know any well enough 
11:03 < morpho> feel like the capital people speak in riddles
11:03 < polarian> but I know Londoners dont sugar coat shit
11:03 < polarian> maybe "blunt" was the better word
11:03 < morpho> they are all coming up here
11:04 < polarian> morpho: where in the UK you from then?
11:04 < polarian> despite being born in London and lived here since, its probably my least favourite place in the UK
11:05 < morpho> west yorkshire
11:05 < polarian> OH NIC
11:05 < polarian> nice*
11:05 < polarian> beautiful up there
11:05 < morpho> yeah it is, sometimes i think of moving but it is really pretty round here
11:05 < polarian> welp the ideal is to have a remote job 
11:05 < polarian> and then you can live anywhere you want 
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11:05 < morpho> not much work round here
11:06 < polarian> yup... all in the South... hence why I cant escape 
11:06 < sibiria> minus of course the incredible challenge of actually finding a place to move into
11:06 < morpho> IT stuff isnt fun either
11:06 < polarian> theres only two ways to escape, 1. remote job, or potentially hybrid, commuting once or twice a week a long distance isnt terrible. 2. self employment
11:06 < morpho> i dunno if its better anywhere else but its pretty much just write react and rest http stuff
11:07 < polarian> otherwise, stuck in the South
11:07 < polarian> I love to hike, so I would love to be further north
11:07 < polarian> sibiria: hah yeah 
11:08 < polarian> finding it is hard, affording it is harder, keeping it is hardest :p
11:08 < morpho> tbf there are lots of cheap places in the uk still
11:08 < morpho> just no work
11:08 < polarian> yeah... wales 
11:09 < morpho> yeah wales is fun
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11:09 < polarian> if you are doing digital services it is feasible to start a small office in the countryside somewhere cheap and beautiful
11:10 < qbit> lts: i am, i'll gander - probably the sqlports package bumped
11:10 < polarian> no hell of being packed into a tin can during the morning commute with someones sweaty pit in your face 
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11:10 < polarian> OpenBSD surprisingly has quite a lot of self employed/small companies within it
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11:43 < qbit> https://openbsd.app/?search=potato&current=on \o/
11:43 < qbit> lts: ^ works now, thanks for pointing it out!
11:45 < sonya> hello.. exploring libressl-4.3.1 and can't find ml-kem pq algos.. am i missing some build options?
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11:46 < sonya> or guess #libressl is more appropriate with this.. sorry
11:47 < sibiria> openssh can do ml-kem and sntrup kex. that's about it right now
11:48 < sonya> hmm..
11:48 < sonya> sibiria: thanks
11:49 < sibiria> pq pki is not yet a thing anywhere else
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11:51 < renaud> cool, now if you search for https://openbsd.app/?search=exim&current=on you find packages mentioning exim
11:51 < sibiria> sonya: is openssl an alternative?
11:52 < sibiria> i don't know how up-to-date the openssl port is, but PQ landed in openssl 4 or 5 months ago
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11:53 < sonya> sibiria: 3.5.* works here, newer openssl all support'em too..
11:53 < lts> qbit: awesome
11:53 < sonya> not checked 4.0, but
11:53 < sibiria> 3.5.0 should be the version where it was introduced, if i recall the announcement
11:53 < sibiria> i'm sure it shows up soon enough in libressl
11:54 < lts> qbit: hmm.. https://openbsd.app/?search=vaultwarden still shows 1.34.3 instead of the actual 1.35.4
11:54 < polarian> OpenBSD folks tend to be conservative about new features :p
11:56 < renaud> wasn't there a -stable version for vaultwarden?
11:57 < renaud> that's it
11:57 < renaud> vaultwarden is 1.34.3 in -release packages but 1.35.4 in -stable
11:57 < renaud> but that's arch dependent
11:58 < renaud> qbit: maybe you should also filter with packages-stable
11:59 < renaud> actually, maybe it would be interesting to have an arch button, like done in packages.debian.org
11:59 < renaud> I am impressed how fast openbsd.app is, it's faster than trying pkg_info
12:00 < renaud> new bookmark done :)
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12:03 < IcePic> yeah, we need an arch button for all the 4 mips users who now don't get golang anymore. ;)
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12:05 < renaud> the issue is more that packages-stable don't exist for many arches
12:05 < renaud> hence the vaultwarden results
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12:13 < sibiria> packages-stable just barely exist for amd64. no system, no plan, 100% ad-hoc. updates happen not just when maintainer has time, but also when someone feels like pushing the build out
12:13 < sibiria> and when theo can be bothered "pushing the button"
12:14 < sibiria> an aching problem begging for a bit of the openbsd foundation's money
12:16 < renaud> I agree, donations for arm64 should be made :)
12:20 < renaud> IcePic: jdk is not available everywhere either
12:20 < IcePic> renaud: sure, but noone is sad about that. 8^D
12:21 < renaud> I am sure there is more than jdk and golang
12:22 < renaud> I had my router/firewall running on MIPS (SGI o2) at some point
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12:35 < IcePic> renaud: a wild guess says there is not so much obsd/mips64 shellcode exploits moving around the internet
12:38 < renaud> thos must be very targetted
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12:41 < sibiria> mips32/linux probably is in the crosshairs. most-used SoHo router architecture
12:42 < sibiria> a million models, in a billion households
12:56 < qbit> renaud: i'd have to generate an sqlports package for every update
12:59 < renaud> I don't know how you do it in the background, but that explains your vaultwarden issue
12:59 < renaud> there is a https://ftp.eu.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.8/packages-stable/amd64/SHA256
13:00 < renaud> so you know when it changes
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13:00 < renaud> not so often
13:04 < qbit> oh, is sqlports re-genreated for every stable bump now?
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13:08 < qbit> doesn't seem it is
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13:24 < qbit> ya, so the only way to get the latest is to have some mechanism that pulls the latest ports for the OPENBSD_X_Y branch and rebuilds the sqlports db
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14:38 < sibiria> sonya: libressl 4.3.0 coming in 7.9: "New features: Support for MLKEM768_X25519 keyshare in TLS."
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14:38 < sibiria> not too long of a wait
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14:50 < sonya> sibiria: i tested 4.3.1 - https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/LibreSSL/libressl-4.3.1.tar.gz - not listed in algos..
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14:50 < sonya> suppose some bindings are set for openssh/tls and that's all
14:51 < sonya> or i missed config/build option to enable them..
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14:52 < sibiria> are you trying a regular tls key exchange, or generating a hybrid key?
14:52 < sonya> both
14:52 < sibiria> as far as i can tell, this is so far just tls kex
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14:53 < sonya> and i need pq to link with 3rd party software (which now runs with openssl-3.5* and newer)
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14:57 < izder456> https://codeberg.org/Izder456/dotfiles/src/branch/main/.local/bin/fastestmirror wrote this perl script to find the fastest mirror for you scraping ftp.html for the mirror list
14:57 < izder456> might be useful for some 
14:57 < izder456> re: the mirror discussion from last night
14:58 < izder456> this whole repo is licensed under 0bsd so feel free to distribute it as you wish
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15:11 < thrig> you might use a sleep so you're not forkbombing requests
15:12 < izder456> oh good idea
15:13 < izder456> how many ms should i sleep for do you think?
15:13 < izder456> its only 10 forks
15:13 < izder456> so it shouldn't really pose a problem rn
15:13 < izder456> but if you think that's a good idea, i can see it too
15:13 < thrig> sleep $sleep_time // 1;  at the bottom of the for loop or something
15:14 < izder456> then set $sleep_time somewhere in the file ofc right?
15:14 < sibiria> static 0.2s sleep should do the trick just fine
15:14 < thrig> there are getopts modules
15:15 < izder456> i'll do 0.2s, i'd rather not have cli options to simplify things
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15:16 < izder456> thanks for the tips thrig and sibiria
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15:17 < izder456> i'm not very good at perl so the help is appreciated
15:17 < sibiria> as a fellow perler, i think your program looks just fine and gets the job done in the right way
15:18 < izder456> i pushed a sleep 0.2s; at the end of the inner for loop
15:18 < izder456> thanks yall
15:18 < eea> yay openbsd and perl!
15:19 < izder456> my dotfiles are automated in a combo of perl and openbsd's korn shell
15:19 < izder456> fun fact !
15:19 < izder456> korn shell for the inital bootstrap, and perl via the https://www.rexify.org framework for automation
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15:21 < izder456> god i love openbsd :)
15:22 < eea> openbsd and perl may or may not have inspired me to build rfc complete nntpd in pure perl
15:24 < eea> then i looked at the imap rfc and walked away
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15:30 < sibiria> far easier to write a pop3 daemon in perl
15:30 < eea> ^
15:31 < eea> imap is not a normal rfc
15:31 < eea> very "a patchy" flavored
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15:32 < sibiria> i run this: https://github.com/stolendata/little-peepo
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15:36 < izder456> is that ported sibiria? i'm kinda interested in hosting this myself
15:36 < sibiria> not sure, i just run what's in that repo
15:37 < izder456> i personally try to get everything i can via ports cos management is made much easier, but if not i might port it myself after unlock
15:37 < sibiria> (on openbsd so i know it works there)
15:37 < izder456> yeah i meant is it ported to openbsd. if not- i may port it myself to openbsd 
15:38 < izder456> lemme look
15:38 < sibiria> yeah no idea. i just toss it in /usr/local/sbin :)
15:38 < izder456> yeah i don't see it: https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=peepo&category=&maintainer=
15:38 < eea> if perl works in openbsd, high chance it is portable
15:38 < izder456> exactly
15:38 < sibiria> there is one light-weight pop3 daemon in ports, pop3d? or so
15:38 < eea> og, as a port/pkg
15:38 < sibiria> or popa3 maybe. can't recall
15:40 < sibiria> popa3d was the name, but looks like it hasn't seen any updates in almost 15 years. not that it necessarly would need any, though
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17:37 < vortexx> (just caught up on the chat of the last 24 hours, answering everyone from here on)
17:37 < vortexx> mischief: I see, at least risc-v has a hw accelerated hypervisor, that's kinda impresive on such a youngish arch
17:39 < vortexx> rtj: there's about 8 of us although two are gf/wives who use linux a bit but don't know much. I will demonstrate OpenBSD and how to upgrade the OS on Saturday if all goes to plan.
17:40 < vortexx> polarian: Switzerland is bloody expensive, likes tons more than the average European country. You can earn a lot by comparison but stil not have much purchasing power. If you want to know more, ask me in #openbsd-social
17:42 < vortexx> the makerspace in a nearby (35 mins drive over the mountain) city wants to do a linux install party. We'll help them out and see. And that makerspace you have to become member to access stuff for free or you pay for everything, Tiered level memberships too
17:42 < vortexx> did not look like a hackerspace. All their gear runs on windows from what I saw but the person we met had linux on her laptop
17:43 < vortexx> they were looking for FOSS software to drive their various CNC and other machines
17:43 < polarian> will do later vortexx I will go to a Linux meetup
17:43 < polarian> yes yes Linux, shoot at me all you like
17:43 < vortexx> we have freecad on OpenBSD :)
17:44 < polarian> finding BSD meetups/events is borderline impossible, too niche 
17:44 < vortexx> well the linux groups are bigger than the BSD ones, as you pointed out
17:44 < vortexx> people don't even know what the various BSDs are
17:45 < vortexx> mh I didn't know routers mostly ran on mips32. Then again I don't mess with OpenWRT etc
17:45 < vortexx> that's a pretty old arch by now
17:46 < vortexx> mips64 has been around since like 1993
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18:11 < vortexx> I see MIPS32/64 is a thing. And that MIPS 6 brings hw accelerated virtualization, always nice to have
18:26 < vortexx> has anyone managed to get rsyslog to speak tls to OpenBSD's syslogd? In ubuntu 25.10 it appears to not read the ca.crt properly for some reason
18:27 < mischief> renaud: nice one
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19:08 < vortexx> oh look I missed patch tuesday... libxpm and slaacd (just reliability fixes)
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19:12 < mischief> vortexx: latest snap works on my vm at least
19:12 < mischief> OpenBSD derisk.home.arpa 7.9 GENERIC.MP#3 riscv64
19:12 < mischief> for some reason networking is very slow, the snap took ages to download
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19:27 < vortexx> mischief: oh good, glad it works. Be even better if it ran on the hw though
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20:37 < mischief> vortexx: seems like the devs have milk-v jupiter
20:37 < mischief> or are working on it
20:37 < mischief> sadly only rva22 and no H extension
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20:39 < Bradipo> milk-v good for what?  small server?
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20:45 < mischief> sure, why not
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20:50 < mischief> ooh
20:51 < mischief> rva23 looks like it requires H extensions now
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20:54 < rtj> humpday
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22:26 < echelon> are there any efforts to migrate glibc-linked binaries to musl libc?
22:27 < echelon> in the openbsd pkgs
22:28 < echelon> or ports
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22:29 < uwharrie> which glibc linked ports, and why migrate musl?
22:29 < echelon> basic stuff like htop, it's linked against glibc, but i would like a musl libc version
22:30 < uwharrie> not sure where you're getting that from
22:31 < echelon> ok, maybe i'm misremembering, sorry
22:31 < echelon> *something* forced me to pollute my system with glibc
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22:35 < humm> echelon: are you aware that this is #openbsd?
22:36 < humm> no glibc, no musl
22:36 < humm> just /usr/lib/libc.*
22:37 < humm> my best guess is that you were confusing glibc with glib
22:37 < echelon> ok, i think that's what happened as well
22:37 < echelon> i just ran `pkg_info` and see glib2
22:38 < echelon> and htop is linked to /usr/lib/libc.so
22:38 < echelon> sorry
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22:40 < humm> no worries, and I think I was too snarky
22:42 < fro> heh
22:44 < echelon> onto another topic, what ethernet adapters for like a data center setting is recommended for running openbsd, any 10GigE?
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22:44 < echelon> running on*
22:44 < uwharrie> ice(4)?
22:45 < echelon> thanks
22:45 < uwharrie> or see pic(4) for others
22:45 < uwharrie> err pci(4)
22:48 < echelon> which series are most stable?
22:48 < echelon> i'm guessing among intel
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22:55 < sibiria> in my experience rge(4) is super stable, but i've only tested it with RTL8125 (2.5Gb). RTL8127 (10Gb) PCIe cards sell for like $40 these days
22:55 < uwharrie> searching misc@ or bugs@ for the chipsets/models you could actually get your hands on would likely give some data
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22:56 < mischief> aq(4) as well, but i can't say how stable it is, only that it worked when i tried it
22:57 < echelon> thanks
23:00 < sibiria> if i were to guess, RTL8125/26/27 are more or less all the same MAC, just different PHY (faster clock)
23:03 < sibiria> (because 2.5Gb and 5Gb are basically the 10Gb standard but clocked down)
23:06 < uwharrie> I got some igc(4)s in a couple new boxes but haven't bothered upgrading the kit in between to try to do 2.5Gb as 1 has sufficed so far
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23:22 < f451> hi, has anyone managed to get openbsd to boot to the installed usb3 disk after the installer has run, on rpi5?
23:23 < f451> it installs fine to sd1, rpi5 is set to try usb booting first, sits at uboot prompt
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