--- Log opened Fri May 01 00:00:19 2026
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00:08 < mischief64> HELO from weechat on openbsd/riscv64
00:10 < fro> yes hello from epic6 on openbsd/arm64
00:11 < fro> is this what we're doing now?
00:12 < mischief64> fro: don't be such a wet blanket, new arches are fun
00:16 < oldlaptop> If you *really* want to impress everyone, try signing on from konversation on openbsd/riscv64
00:17 < oldlaptop> (You probably have time before 8.0 ships)
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00:37 < Chip1972> where i find httpd.conf+slowcgi for dummies?
00:38 < oldlaptop> I doubt the publishers of that fine series have gotten around to covering the OpenBSD web stack.
00:39 < Chip1972> slowcgi is breaking my brain
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01:01 < mischief> oldlaptop: if konversation needs all of the (hundreds?) of qt/kde libs, i'm not sure i'll make it
01:01 < oldlaptop> That's The Joke (TM)
01:01 < mischief> .. and it's headless anyway.
01:04 < oldlaptop> Even all put together, it's still not as bad as building chromium.
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05:18 < mason> Hm. I just noticed that https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.8/amd64/SHA256 contains each of install78.img and install78.iso twice.
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05:24 < thrig> hopefully not like the cat thing in The Matrix
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05:31 < mason> I'd feel bad if I said "nothing like that" and then agents burst through the windows, so I'll just wait and see.
05:34 < mischief> when signing my riscv64 packages recently i noticed pkg_sign -C option will just blindly append and sort to SHA256 even if an entry exists, and makes duplicates.. not too surprised it can happen to the sets too
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06:25 < vortexx> mischief: is dbp -j the option you were looking for to specify the number of jobs to run on the host?
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06:30 < vortexx> renaud: I tried it out mainly because ssm__ last year was bringing up a board over a serial port and was getting frustrated with sending files the zmodem way. PPP hasn't been in the faq for a couple of decades (I checked) but jcs had a write up for some old 68k mac of his and I just adapted it. Hey presto, rsync and ssh work :)
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06:31 < mischief> vortexx: it does not override and apply, at least in my recent experience
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06:33 < vortexx> -p then?
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06:33 < vortexx> Run big jobs on several cores on the same host, by using MAKE_JOBS=k.
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06:34 < vortexx> (from the -p bit of the manpage)
06:37 < mischief> it has a pretty big caveat there which says it only applied to ports which mark themselves as dpb parallel.
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06:38 < mischief> i ran dpb -j4 -p4 .. and they all still ran with no j.
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06:46 < vortexx> odd
06:47 < vortexx> maybe -j 4 -p 4
06:47 < vortexx> ?
06:48 < mischief> i doubt argument ordering or spacing plays into it, unless perl argument parsing is somehow completely different and doesn't error out compared to usual getopt
06:50 < vortexx> lemme try
06:50 < mischief> the ports i asked for are actually all done and dpb exited. i linked my repo earlier. this was mostly just a learning experiment.. i assume 7.9 release will have the same kernel support and i will use the packages when they are built
06:51 < mischief> i am wondering if the release got so delayed just because of how long riscv64 packages take to build :)
06:52 < vortexx> yeah I saw you completed all that, pretty good going
06:53 < vortexx> heh maybe it's the reason... between arm64, riscv64 and sgi/octeon it takes a while
06:53 < vortexx> not sure if riscv64 qualifies as an arch worth holding back the release for though
06:54 < vortexx> ok I'm seeing no difference between -j8 -p8 and -j 8 -p 8
06:54 < vortexx> 8*www/firefox-esr(patch) [81443] 4455 frozen for 100s
06:55 < vortexx> (hopefully now my stacksize issue is gone configure scripts etc won't take for bloody ever again)
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06:58 < vortexx> extracting big tarballs is still painful with these 5400rpm drives in zraid1
06:59 < mischief64> my /usr/ports is on nvme, no raid
07:00 < mischief64> i should move it to my lvm raid1 pool, but then it will also be on spinning rust
07:00 < vortexx> depends how big it is
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07:01 < vortexx> technically I think I do have space left on the nvme I could move the vm to but of late when creating a vm it gave me out of space, I still need to investigate that
07:02 < mischief64> right now? tiny. my whole ports mount is 5g, including distiles and packages
07:02 < vortexx> I wouldn't bother then
07:02 < mischief64> but dpb cleans after each port build
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07:02 < mischief64> it's the latency that is the killer
07:02 < mischief64> nfs as is made everything like 3x slower, even over 1g lan
07:03 < vortexx>   a:        358140.0M           532544    RAID 
07:03 < vortexx> I'd mention that to espie, he's the one who wrote dpb
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07:03 < vortexx> (and the pkg_* tools)
07:04 < mischief64> what exactly? he's likely no stranger to nfs, not sure i'd tell him anything new
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07:05 < vortexx> well just tell him how much slower stuff seems to be and maybe he has an optimized configuration to share?
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07:06 < broke> Hello, I hope you can understand this. I tried Void Linux (glibc) on this machine to see how much this hardware (the thinkpad x200) is capable of, and I was trying to get that kind of performance in openbsd. Even without vaapi (or probably with I didn't check in details) and vulkan-video, a 1080p60 video wasn't playing as much smoothly as how it did in Linux, however I don't think its a kernel issue, but 
07:07 < broke> rather with Xenocara and intel_drm, as the base rendering was really laggy as well, my openbsd friend told me to do kern.shminfo tuning which I did for a slightly better improvement overall, but it still kind of lags, and ultimately, the video not playing as smoothly kind of makes me sad. So I tried to get it working like it can but I'm failing. I had Xlibre rather than Xorg on the Void machine, there's a 
07:07 < broke> lot of factors I didn't really consider testing which I should have, ultimately I think its a Xorg issue.
07:08 < vortexx> did you try up'ing login.conf default and staff limits too?
07:08 < broke> yes
07:08 < broke> I followed a guide from some *.cafe domain
07:08 < mischief64> naddy wrote https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=177595112605898&w=2 and got no reply, it made me lose some confidence tbh
07:08 < vortexx> (I wonder if we'll ever get a rewrite in C of the various pkg_* commands)
07:08 < broke> (probably not)
07:09 < broke> (perhaps in just plain shell instead?)
07:09 < vortexx> broke: well maybe the hw is just not up to it, using OpenBSD. Happens unfortunately
07:09 < broke> I don't think its a OpenBSD issue after 2 days of digging
07:09 < broke> I just think its some kind of rendering issue
07:10 < broke> even in xterm, moving the mouse cursor in curses apps stutters
07:10 < broke> that gave it away the most
07:10 < mischief64> broke: here's a nickel, kid https://i.imgur.com/z96dZ0x.gif
07:12 < mischief64> my x301 with an even more anemic cpu than the x200 can barely play a 240p video on youtube in firefox
07:12 < broke> vortexx: https://www.fugu.cafe/articles/obsd-desktop-tuning.html
07:12 < vortexx> you could always try a (much) older version of OpenBSD just to see if it goes any better
07:12 < mischief64> modern programs require modern hardware, and that includes programs that run in the web browser
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07:13 < broke> mischief64: the x200 played a somewhat of a moving 1080p60 video somewhat fine in Void Linux.
07:13 < vortexx> mischief64: yeah I've just read that thread, not getting any answers from others isn't great ./
07:14 < broke> vortexx: I gave the link
07:14 < broke> I basically followed the last two commands
07:14 < broke> for the staff stuff
07:14 < vortexx> broke: this 1080p test was with vlc or something else?
07:14 < broke> mpv
07:15 < mischief64> if you want linux you know where to find it
07:15 < broke> I dont want linux
07:15 < broke> but I want the performance the hardware can provide
07:16 < vortexx> looking at that link broke I see the stack size being tweaked, which I've discovered makes things go stuttery and laggy
07:16 < vortexx> try changing that back to 8M
07:16 < broke> which one?
07:16 < broke> in login.conf?
07:16 < mischief64> for openbsd you aren't going to find it on nearly 20 year old hardware, sorry
07:16 < vortexx> you'll need to log out and in again. Yes login.conf stacksize-max and stacksize-cur
07:16 < broke> mischief64: as I said I don't think its a openbsd issue
07:16 < broke> its a X issue
07:16 < broke> I'm certain
07:16 < vortexx> x200 is that old now ?
07:17 < broke> yeah
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07:17 < vortexx> (I'm not one of the thinkpad afficionados, I used to do vaios and now Dell XPS 13s)
07:17 < mischief64> i have two x200 and an x301, and yes, they are from 2008
07:17 < broke> but old is perfect for openbsd so I thought.
07:18 < broke> its a matter of tuning
07:18 < vortexx> yeah but not for every task
07:18 < rnkn> vortexx: I thought pkg_* was initially in C then rewritten in Perl
07:18 < broke> vortexx: well atleast for probably watching videos on the go
07:18 < broke> which this apparently can do atleast
07:18 < vortexx> rnkn: yeah there was a rewrite by Marc Espie, originally Jordan Hubbard (of FreeBSD fame)
07:21 < mischief64> good luck and good night
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07:25 < vortexx> 'night
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07:26 < vortexx> broke: with no vaapi acceleration I doubt mpv vlc or xine can do this
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07:29 < vortexx> btw this isn't a GMA500 onboard gfx chip is it?
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07:40  * sonya used mplayer to watch .avi's with sis integrated .. 
07:40 < vortexx> I've done that with s3 savageIX
07:40 < broke> vortexx: its a GM45 chipset, on this x200 its a Core2Duo P8700
07:41 < broke> My current aim is just to get it as smooth rendering as on Xlibre or something
07:41 < broke> maybe there's some magic in Xlibre
07:41 < vortexx> yeah I've found the wiki, it's not poulsbo at least (which isn't really intel, it's PowerVR and never worked properly)
07:41 < broke> I'm not sure where the issue really lies
07:41 < vortexx> it says your display is 1280x800 btw, not 1080p anyway
07:41 < broke> well the videeo is
07:41 < broke> uhh
07:41 < broke> well the rendering is done on 1280x720
07:42 < broke> (as reported my mpv)
07:42 < vortexx> so why bother with 1080p?
07:42 < broke> not bother with 1080p but that most videos are 1080p
07:42 < vortexx> 720p can often be sourced too
07:42 < vortexx> that might be your hurdle
07:43 < vortexx> Xlibre hasn't had much airtime here
07:43 < vortexx> devs haven't touched it on tech@ despite a bit of prodding
07:43 < broke> I've seen people port it through vesa or something
07:43 < broke> but that's cpu accel
07:43 < broke> :\
07:43 < vortexx> which will be dogslow
07:43 < broke> exactly
07:44 < broke> nonetheless I was busy I will touch on the stack size now
07:44 < broke> and check, then let you know
07:44 < broke> if you dont mind
07:44 < broke> I will also test for 720p videos
07:45 < vortexx> that's fine, we like progress reports
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07:45 < vortexx> it's even better when the working config is posted
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07:51 < broke> also how to confirm that I'm in the staff class?
07:53 < vortexx> grep broke /etc/group | grep staff
07:53 < broke> hmm that doesn't return anything this is weird
07:53 < broke> I messed up somewhere
07:54 < broke> Is this the correct command for it?: doas usermod -L staff broke ?
07:54 < broke> then doas cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf
07:54 < broke> or are these deprecated?
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08:04 < vortexx> that'll work
08:06 < broke> and it should show up in /etc/group right? apparently doesn :(
08:06 < broke> doesnt*
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08:14 < vortexx> mh login classes don't show up in /etc/group, sorry
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08:17 < vortexx> usermod -G staff broke will add you to the group
08:18 < broke> which is required?
08:18 < broke> okay, thanks.
08:18 < vortexx> I'd say so
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08:35 < broke> I'm not sure if I see any difference by eye, maybe there's more to tune than kern.shminfo or login.conf. Here's another test I did back in Linux, xbaclight -set 20 -> 90. It took about 1seconds there, but here it takes abour 6 seconds.
08:35 < broke> about*
08:35 < broke> (I'm feeling more and more like I'm missing something)
08:43 < broke> oh found out that I'm supposed to use wsconsctl
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08:43 < morpho> brightness keys should work 
08:44 < broke> for some reason they are slow
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08:45 < vortexx> did you log out and in after adding yourself to staff?
08:45 < broke> I restarted
08:45 < vortexx> ok
08:46 < vortexx> and which wm are you using?
08:46 < broke> fwiw, I'll do it again, just to be sure
08:46 < broke> dwm.
08:46 < vortexx> right, something pretty light then
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11:17 < Guest53> Hello, can someone help me with https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=177762200900387&w=2
11:17 < Guest53> Is my msg readable?
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11:21 < Guest53> NickServ
11:22 < ivdsangen> yes, it is readable just fine, did you see the reply to your message?
11:22 < lts> Seems you have been answered via the list already
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11:24 < Guest53> Oh yeah thank you!
11:25 < vortexx> there is no way within OpenBSD to mount luks encrypted devices. Unfortunately there is no passthrough for usb/sd card type devices to vmm, but a dd of the image and mounting that in a vmd instance running linux and letting that decrypt and then nfs share to the host might be an answer
11:25 < vortexx> clunky of course but scriptable
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11:28 < Guest53> Alright, thank you
11:29 < Guest53> Maybe I'll try to transfer through my android phone. Any recomended way to do that?
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11:30 < morpho> how many computers do you have? could try just booting a linux live usb instead of using vmm if that would be easier
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11:31 < Guest53> Only one laptop
11:32 < morpho> ive hosted a ftp/nfs server off an android phone.
11:35 < Guest53> Okay cool. What browsers do you guys use. Have you changed settingr to allow gpu accel and/or hardware decode? Is it safe
11:35 < morpho> chromium and firefox are pledged/unveiled
11:36 < morpho> though firefox uses rust which is not as well supported on openbsd
11:36 < Guest53> I downloaded ungoogled chromium but dont like it. Miss librewolf
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11:36 < Guest53> For laptop is it recommended to use apm or something?
11:37 < morpho> leah ported librewolf very recently
11:38 < cjs> Guest53: [www] coreystephan.com/openbsd-thinkpad or [gopher] coreystephan.duckdns.org -> phlog -> [same] has my strong recommendations for laptop setup, cheers
11:38 < Guest53> Unavailable in pkg
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11:38 < morpho> https://codeberg.org/vimuser/librewolf-openbsd-port
11:38 < Guest53> Thank you :)
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11:41 < sibiria> Guest53: apm if you need hibernation/wakeup functionality. avoid using it for power saving functions when running, use obdsfreqd instead
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11:41 < morpho> sibiria: i thought obsdfreqd was not needed anymore? doesnt apmd do that?
11:42 < sibiria> apmd has problems, obsdfreqd does it better and more efficiently
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11:43 < morpho> ty
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11:43 < sibiria> additionally you tune obsdfreqd to behave any way you prefer - it can be super responsive, it can be low-freq oriented, or high-freq oriented
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11:51 < byteskeptical> Guest53: I would say unless you need low power efficiency use apmd
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11:54 < Guest53> Okay
11:54 < sibiria> power efficiency and functional "SpeedStep/Cool'n'Quiet" is always important. electricity, environment, economy. also nice to have a quiet computer instead of a hot blowdrier
11:54 < sibiria> obsdfreqd doesn't get in the way of high performance
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11:55 < sibiria> imo there is no sane reason to let the CPU run hot and at max frequency, when it's doing nothing
11:55 < morpho> i get good power efficiency on openbsd, you can see it with 'sysctl hw.sensors'
11:56 < morpho> 10w ?
11:57 < cjs> Guest53: since you are a newcomer, I should point out that you want apmd for everything it does for laptops *except* power management, which you then pivot to obsfreqd, like so
11:57 < cjs> coreystephan.com/openbsd-thinkpad/#power-management
11:59 < cjs> in other words, do not disable apmd -- trigger its manual CPU adjustment mode, and then let obsdfreqd do the CPU adjustments while apmd handles suspend/resume and other niceties
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12:01  * sibiria doesn't run apmd on laptop; just shuts down/boots up between sessions
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12:02 < morpho> there is options!
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12:03 < sibiria> because of how openbsd's hibernation works, both shutting down and booting is almost as fast
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12:03 < sibiria> especially if the laptop has 16+ GB of memory
12:04 < sibiria> or, i would say, faster in many cases
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12:07 < byteskeptical> I think the chipset and firmware can vary the power management experience quite a bit
12:08 < byteskeptical> sibiria: that may be true on some machines but you still have to get your workspace back to state which probably isn't as fast. I've definitely taken that approach though on some machines
12:09 < sibiria> depends a lot on RAM + disk i/o speed. at "only" 500 mb/sec, it takes half a minute to hibernate and half a minute to get back up. it can be tedious
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12:09 < sibiria> (with 16gb)
12:09 < sibiria> at 32gb one is back in the windows 2000 days
12:10 < sibiria> but i'm positive that openbsd will get sparse hibernation some day
12:11 < byteskeptical> I have 96GB and closer to the 30 sec mark when it works but I get what you're saying, I've had similar experiences on other machines
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12:11 < Guest53> @cjs Im reading your blog, its quite helpful, thank you!
12:12 < byteskeptical> cjs: I'm skeptical about your smt conclusions
12:13 < Guest53> Sibiria i have never used hibernation, for now ill use my machine simply until i get my usual stuff set up
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12:14 < Guest53> Bytes, i enabled smt, and had more drops in frames (youtube stats for nerds), so i disabled it
12:14 < morpho> its called something else now
12:14 < Guest53> Also better for security i heard
12:15 < lts> That coreystephan link look interesting, thanks. This line looks odd though: "chown $USER /dev/video*". Is this really the correct method?
12:15 < byteskeptical> lts: no
12:16 < morpho> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20260415050032
12:16 < Guest53> Has -current ever had a os breaking update? Or disrupting?
12:17 < byteskeptical> I would also say the doas line should be more like `permit persist setenv { -ENV PS1=$DOAS_PS1 SSH_AUTH_SOCK } username`
12:17 < byteskeptical> Guest53: yes
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12:17 < sibiria> Guest53: regularly
12:17 < Guest53> So its better to stick to stable
12:17 < byteskeptical> Guest53: doesn't happen often but it does happen I would follow misc, and tech mailing lists for warnings
12:17 < morpho> i run current on laptop and stable on servers
12:18 < byteskeptical> Guest53: not if you want the latest ports updates or other updates in-between releases
12:18 < sibiria> no one month ever passes without someone coming in here asking for help about something that broke on -current
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12:18 < sibiria> it's not always a showstopper, but it's always a problem, and this is just one tiny view of all the affected users
12:19 < byteskeptical> sibiria: I think there are a lot of duplicates and self-infliction (pulling from wrong package tree seems to be popular)
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12:20 < Guest53> How often to syspatch and pkg_add -u? Once a week?
12:20 < byteskeptical> not saying it's not without some effort but it's also not quite as bad as it's sometimes portrayed
12:20 < morpho> its not as bad as on linux
12:21 < Guest53> Im coming from arch linux lol
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12:21 < lts> You monitor the announce@openbsd.org mailing list and syspatch when they send an errata email
12:21 < morpho> oh yeah, -current is way more stable than arch
12:21 < morpho> in my experiene
12:21 < Guest53> System d age verification pushet me to find alternatives. Found openbsd
12:21 < byteskeptical> morpho: for sure
12:22 < sibiria> the arch linux hiccups are a couple each year, but the fact that they run bleeding edge package versions cause a whole lot more hiccups in itself
12:22 < sibiria> in my observation, the base system issues with openbsd-current appear more frequent than those of arch's base
12:22 < byteskeptical> Guest53: you can technically go from stable to current just make sure you update your package url if you do
12:22 < cjs> byteskeptical: true to your name, do be skeptical lts It is Unix, so we have different ways of getting things done, but correct an outright error or objectively fatal advice, of course, and I will update this old set of setup notes that I have not touched in at least 2 years :)
12:23 < byteskeptical> sibiria: i bet to differ but it would interesting to get some numbers 
12:23 < morpho> there isnt really an arch base system
12:23 < morpho> systemd?
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12:24 < sibiria> there's a bare minimum, even if everythign in arch is a package
12:24 < byteskeptical> cjs: I pointed out two already, I think telling people to disable default protections because something 'feels' faster is not a solid approach
12:25 < cjs> byteskeptical: Not changing the SMT bit, since I have ample warnings for people to make their own choices. Enabling SMT improves system performance.
12:25 < byteskeptical> sibiria: just the kernel lol
12:26 < morpho> isnt it called hw.blockcpu now?
12:26 < cjs> ...leaving SMT disabled respects Theo's wishes for security.
12:26 < sibiria> byteskeptical: arch usually point out the internal system screw-ups requiring manual fixes on their project front page. it's a handful every year. with openbsd it's a dozen every year based just on the people that come in here to get help
12:26 < cjs> morpho: https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20260415050032 True
12:27 < sibiria> if one were inclined to use this irc channel as a metric there's a public log of the channel available on the Internet
12:27 < morpho> i updated linux just yesterday and now it wont read exfat/vfat
12:27 < morpho> just randomly changes
12:28 < byteskeptical> cjs: the many exploits since that was introduced that leverage that functionality beg to differ. It's certainly not just Theo with that opinion, linux came to the same conclusion just later
12:28 < morpho> anyway, offtopic :p
12:29 < cjs> byteskeptical: Also, it is literally what is recommended in the FAQ to run chown on /dev/video* *shrugs*
12:29 < byteskeptical> sibiria: that doesn't seem like a good metric
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12:29 < morpho> i have run wth smt=0 and its been fine. i still get usage from all four of the cores
12:29 < sibiria> together with the mailing lists and reddit, it's the only metric we have
12:30 < cjs> byteskeptical: fair, fair on the SMT. Again, I like to enable it, but I specifically call it "risky functionality" in my "personal setup notes" :)
12:30 < byteskeptical> probably because the kernel can't even take advantage of the fake cores anyway at least in most cases
12:30 < byteskeptical> sibiria: I go by commits not comments
12:31 < sibiria> right. but if someone speaks up about running into a wall, it's very likely they ran into a wall
12:31 < morpho> fake cores?
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12:31 < sibiria> morpho: SMT splits each real core into two virtual cores
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12:31 < sibiria> you don't get twice as many cores. you get twice as many half-cores
12:32 < byteskeptical> sibiria: sure but may times that is just a setup or personal issue not necessarily something underlying with the system. Arch has plenty of this on their irc channel as well
12:32 < morpho> it would be hard to measure the tech support between obsd and arch because the mediums are different
12:33 < morpho> ive met arch linux users who use dont even have irc!
12:33 < byteskeptical> speculative cores that get discarded unless a certain branch ends up being followed and you need additional logic to take advantage of it otherwise back to your efficiency claims it is very inefficient
12:34 < byteskeptical> morpho: another reason it's not a good metric
12:35 < sibiria> the presence of someone saying this or that port or base executable broke or misbehave after last night's snapshot says something
12:35 < sibiria> when it's not self-inflicted, it's a valid indication
12:36 < morpho> ports breaking is expected though
12:36 < byteskeptical> sibiria: I'm not saying people don't have valid issues, I'm saying it's not easy or straight forward to distinguish between the two as a metric
12:36 < morpho> the abi/api changes on openbsd
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12:37 < sibiria> and theo changes stance on internals at same pace he changes underwear
12:37 < sibiria> can be a wild ride
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12:37 < Guest53> Is there a wifi penetration tool like hcxdumptool for openbsd?
12:37 < morpho> could try compile it
12:38 < morpho> check monitor mode works
12:38 < Guest53> It requires linux kernel to work
12:38 < Guest53> According to author
12:38 < byteskeptical> Guest53: tcpdump
12:38 < morpho> monitor mode + tcpdump
12:39 < cjs> lts: small note -- actually, yes, chown on /dev/video* is what is recommended in the official FAQ (sec. 13)
12:39 < Guest53> Thats for passive attack i guess
12:39 < morpho> most people run that stuff in a vm, vmm cant do pci-passthrough so im not sure
12:40 < morpho> https://secbsd.org/#tools
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12:41 < Posterdati> hi
12:41 < morpho> id just put kali/parrot on a usb
12:42 < morpho> then eat it
12:42 < Posterdati> is anyone interested in port openbsd onto cortex-a35 stm32mp257?
12:42 < Guest53> Hate those kind of distros. Using live image was my initial idea though
12:43 < morpho> if you wanna lock down your wifi more, you could try authpf
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12:58 < oldlaptop> cjs: I'd be interested to see actual numbers on SMT "improving system performance", on what CPU. (with OpenBSD specifically, obviously)
13:00 < sibiria> it unequivocally does for software that highly benefits from parallelization, and if you're on a tiny single-core or dual-core system you get some parasitic benefit out of it when the kernel can spread a few tasks out
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13:01 < sibiria> highly parallelized tasks made to benefit from it typically get a 15-20% performance boost at the extreme end. not a silver bullet considering all the drawbacks
13:02 < byteskeptical> what are some of these tasks?
13:02 < sibiria> video encoders, threading compressors, CPU-based video rendering, are common examples
13:03 < sibiria> e.g. x264 will see some 10-15% more fps on one and the same content if it gets to run 8 threads on 4c/8t compared to 4 or 8 threads on 4c/4t
13:04 < ssm_> would I rather have 10-15% more fps in something already offloaded to the gpu in my case, or remove a whole class of security vulnerabilities?
13:04 < sibiria> given the pretty severe performance regressions that many of linux' mitigations incur, i'm incredibly skeptic about SMT on linux today
13:04 < sibiria> some of those mitigations comes with a 20, 30 even 40% performance hit
13:05 < sibiria> effectively you're taking steps back on the whole performance envelope
13:05 < byteskeptical> i think video encoders are more likely to be using on-board graphics built-in to the cpu, likewise for rendering. If there is truely no onboard graphics it would be painful either way for anything 720+
13:05 < sibiria> pretty boneheaded
13:05 < sibiria> no they're not
13:05 < byteskeptical> sibiria: that also assumes you're doing nothing else on the system at the time
13:06 < sibiria> you have pretty much one decent choice for hardware-based h.264 video encoding today and it's nvenc (nvidia), and compared to x264 its quality output is very poor. only streamers use it
13:06 < sibiria> with video encoding in this context i mean actual work
13:07 < oldlaptop> I should also say "with what workload". The actual CPU is an important variable, the scheduler is an important variable, the workload is an important variable...
13:08 < byteskeptical> ^, like literally encoding a video of your creation for upload?
13:08 < oldlaptop> thread A spending most of its time on the integer unit and thread B doing FP work is pretty different from two compiler processes
13:08 < sibiria> for upload, for production, mastering, "piracy" 
13:08 < sibiria> highly specialized CPU benchmarks top out at pretty much the same ~20% on the extreme end of SMT benefit
13:09 < sibiria> after all, you still only have the same number of CPU cores. you're just running two things at the same time on them. there is no magic performance boost involved
13:09 < oldlaptop> (and different CPUs will be able to extract different amounts of parallelism from a single thread, and therefore have different amounts left over to theoretically be exploitable through multithreading)
13:10 < byteskeptical> another good point
13:10 < sibiria> and as soon as you have 4 or more real cores, you're pretty much covered in terms of having enough space for the systems and applications to run next to eachother
13:11 < sibiria> not much benefit seen for any general use
13:11 < byteskeptical> sibiria: what about core types?
13:11 < byteskeptical> all this omits that le and p cores among others exist now
13:11 < sibiria> as in BIG.little and intel's P/E?
13:12 < sibiria> modern OSes (sorry openbsd) schedule onto these as two higher level groups
13:12 < byteskeptical> yeah I think the functional benefit of parallizing on those slower cores is probably even less
13:12 < sibiria> windows does, macOS does, linux does (or can? not sure)
13:13 < byteskeptical> I think it depends on what else is going on in the os
13:13 < sibiria> e.g. for macOS you can let the application self-categorize where it best belongs, and the user has final say in case they want to override
13:13 < morpho> how do they carry on doing it
13:16 < morpho> not the first time obsd team have not developed a feature for so long its wrapped around to being pointless
13:16 < sibiria> there's some benefit to core-pinning. i think it's a useful concept and practical approach
13:17 < oldlaptop> banning the slow cores seems like a reasonably simple alternative. (https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20260415050032)
13:18 < sibiria> if i were running on an intel P/E or Arm BIG.little configuration, i can see some benefit in making sure some processes remain on the "little" group
13:18 < sibiria> macOS does a good job with it on their Arm systems. most OS-level background services are pinned there
13:18  * oldlaptop guesstimates it might follow a similar trajectory to SMP support
13:18 < ssm_> good idea lets create "cpufs" to bind to location in namesp-uh filesystem
13:19 < oldlaptop> (i.e. maybe once it's pretty much ubiquitous there'll be something beyond "ban the worst cores")
13:20 < sibiria> for me it could be beneficial to pin something like tmux processes, and irssi, smtpd, dhcpleased, whatnot, on weaker cores to make sure they won't cause even slight contention for hungrier things
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13:27 < zbar> My ThinkPad T480s starts getting noticeably slower after suspending it, I've tried playing with the BIOS settings to no avail. When I enable thunderbolt assist mode and/or disable TPM, OpenBSD runs horribly slow be it before or after suspend. Am completely lost and have no idea how I can fix this.
13:27 < zbar> Here is the dmesg output: https://termbin.com/vuez
13:28 < zbar> And here are the BIOS options which I think are relevant: https://postimg.cc/gallery/m7YpGwn
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13:32 < marfan_ginger> zbar: Have you come across this page yet? https://www.tumfatig.net/2025/openbsd-and-thunderbolt-issue-on-thinkpad-t480s/
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13:42 < zbar> marfan_ginger: Yes, I tried the same settings but then it gets slower before or after suspending.
13:42 < byteskeptical> cjs: I see `# chown username /dev/video0` not a wildcard? Where are you seeing your command?
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13:47 < marfan_ginger> zbar: I don't have a T480s so I can't offer any more help, unfortunately
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13:51 < byteskeptical> zbar: try running apmd -d and in another terminal doing the suspend and send that in to the mailing list. I have a vague memory of someone running into a semi-similar issue in the not too distant past. Also you may want to try current as there have been some work done by mlarkin and gang recently on suspend/resume regressions.
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13:56 < zbar> byteskeptical: I'll try those, thanks!
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14:09 < cjs> byteskeptical: sure, same command
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15:59 < Posterdati> hi
15:59 < Posterdati> please help, is it possible to get edid binary data?
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16:48 < thenightmail744> I tried to change fonts system wide by referencing the manuals. Here is what I found to do it https://www.c0ffee.net/blog/openbsd-on-a-laptop/#x11 . There is the information in man fonts, but it isn't super obvious what to do in order to just blanket change the fonts say if you download the package ibm-plex and want that to show up everywhere
16:49 < thenightmail744> but I am curious where people would go to find the information to do this without searching the web
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16:52 < thenightmail744> and to be clear, I am referencing adding the fonts.conf file in /etc/ - the use of <family>...</family> Isn't shown at all in man fonts. I don't know how that was discovered
16:53 < thenightmail744> Ok. I need to learn quite a bit to do things competently. seems that using the man -k might enlighten me
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17:00 < humm> thenightmail744: are you aware that fontconfig has its own docs?
17:01 < humm> from memory it should be in /usr/X11R6/share/doc/fontconfig
17:02 < jmcunx> man 5 fonts.conf also exists
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17:05 < humm> thenightmail744: but well, that’s the answer: I find the information without searching the web by reading the docs of the components involved
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18:38 < lun01> hello
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18:55 < Posterdati> please help, is it possible to get edid binary data? Thanks!
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19:31 < rIMpossible> Web find of the day https://copy.fail/ 9 years unpatched hole in LEENOX
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19:33 < fro> yeah uh
19:33 < librecat> rIMpossible: yes this shows the importance of human code review and removing unmaintained functionality
19:33 < fro> that's literally been everywhere
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19:34 < rIMpossible> librecat: that's why I am on OpenBSD, I knew there was a reason back with 4.2 ;)
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19:39 < thrig> ... removing unmaintained functionality, and not piling heaps of yet more code onto the stack
19:40 < rIMpossible> true
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20:11 < ssm_> true, glad we avoid those big nasty toolchains like llvm
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20:11 < thrig> alternative compilers being variously problematic
20:12 < thrig> in which case the least bad option is to ...
20:13 < ssm_> switch to 9c!
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20:43 < mischief> i sent 3 PRs and have diffs to fix 2 other go ports for openbsd/riscv64
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20:52 < humm> the least best option is to have several compilers and make the system work with all of them
20:52 < humm> heh, s/best/bad/
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21:08 < lts> cjs: indeed so it seems, thank you
21:08 < lts> ("# chown username /dev/video0", https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html)
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21:45 < metalmartijn_> does anyone know when 7.9 will release?
21:45 < tux0r> when it's done
21:46 < sjjd> which flags should I use so cmake could find OpenMP?
21:46 < tux0r> 9c is a solid compiler though
21:47 < joepublic> Watch this space: https://www.openbsd.org/79.html
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21:50 < metalmartijn_> thanks
21:52 < fro> i predict may 19th
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21:56 < oldlaptop> metalmartijn_: The usual response to that question is https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/log/src/etc/root/root.mail,v?sort=File
21:57 < fro> yeah that's where i got may 19th from
21:57 < fro> :D
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22:08 < thrig> "are we there yet" said the kids for the 640th time
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22:09 < thrig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYOcO4kLbVw
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23:21 < sjjd> which flags should I use so cmake could find OpenMP?
23:21 < uwharrie> might want to ask #cmake
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23:58 < sjjd> very funny
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--- Log closed Sat May 02 00:00:21 2026