--- Log opened Wed May 06 00:00:26 2026
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01:43 < birddogg> anyone tried any alpine images in vmm with 3.23.X?  seems like networking is broke, maybe its known tho?
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05:35 < cgnarne> works on -current
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09:58 < vortexx> meh, fibre dropped connection for a bit
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12:56 < polarian> im starting to think there is serve issues with the mue driver 
12:57 < polarian> rpi3b only picks up the network chip every nth reboot
12:57 < polarian> no clue why
12:57 < polarian> No issues in dmesg, just doesn't seem to see it...
12:57 < polarian> maybe a fault on the pi...
12:57 < polarian> I could swap it out and see tbf
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13:01 < polarian> the issue with the network dropping out seems to have been a power issue, dont use 1A :p
13:01 < polarian> I used a 1.2A which can supply 6W, but it was just under the requirement :/
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13:09 < polarian> oh ffs, is the patch server IPv4 only 
13:09 < polarian> I cant syspatch -c on IPv6 only 
13:14 < morpho> can you nat from another machine
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13:16 < polarian> errrr... technically
13:16 < polarian> but I dont want to 
13:16 < polarian> lol
13:16 < polarian> does anyone know the endpoint syspatch uses?
13:16 < polarian> wait where deimosBSD he does IPv6 only on OpenBSD
13:17 < polarian> he will know :p
13:18 < morpho> i cant remember whats its called... nat66 or something
13:19 < morpho> but its not nat. DNS64 maybe
13:20 < quinq> 12
13:22 < thrig> NAT DAEMON
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13:28 < pardis> there is no "patch server", syspatch gets patches from your configured mirror
13:28 < pardis> if your mirror doesn't do IPv6, choose a different one
13:30 < pardis> incidentally, /usr/sbin/syspatch is just a shell script and you can just read it if you want to know how it works
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14:35 < f451> hi, does anyone here use bwfm for onboard wireless on RPi4 ?
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16:55 < deimosBSD> the whole point of ipv6 is to avoid NAT
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17:02  * sibiria uses NAT for IPv6
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17:03 < quinq> eeek
17:03 < deimosBSD> horrifying
17:04 < martian67> it makes sense for multihoming
17:04 < martian67> anything else is pretty questionable
17:04 < quinq> deimosBSD, the whole point of IPv6 is to avoid DHCP
17:04  * quinq uses DHCPv6 :(
17:05 < martian67> its also the quick and dirty way to do ipv4 multihoming
17:06 < martian67> the real proper way to do multihoming is bgp and anycast, but it’s a lot easier to get ipv4 anycast space
17:06 < martian67> due to policy stupidity in ICANN
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17:07 < martian67> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provider-independent_address_space
17:07 < sibiria> saves me the hassle of having to run dhcp6 and delegate prefixes in an already pretty static LAN
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17:08 < martian67> although they have eased up in the last few years
17:10 < quinq> sibiria, what hassle? rcctl enable rad
17:11 < deimosBSD> ipv6 only on openbsd works very well, fwiw.
17:17 < sibiria> as expected - it wouldn't make sense that the ipv6 portion would function better if it were accompanied by ipv4 connectivity
17:18 < deimosBSD> just set /etc/installurl to a mirror you know has ipv6 and everything works, or run your own mirror
17:20 < ssm_> ipv6 avoids nat, which also means you avoid cgnat, which is the strongest argument I've seen since cgnat can both mitm tls and block selfhosting
17:20 < sibiria> the rest of the internet is the problem
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17:26 < ssm_> if I'm behind tls I just assume tls packets have already been decrypted, stored in some database forever and re-encoded before being sent to me or my destination depending on which side is natted
17:29 < sibiria> there are cert/key pinning addons for firefox and chromium
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17:54 < lts> Is that where all that disk space manufacturing goes
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19:36 < vortexx> polarian: time to learn to mirror syspatches
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19:37 < vortexx> mh 7.9-BASE landed on cvs
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19:56 < WhyNotHugo> Setting timers in C has an ~9–12ms overhead.
19:56 < WhyNotHugo> This is my sample reproducer: https://paste.sr.ht/~whynothugo/ce3390330fb5a399af309247fc8f85844db391f7
19:56 < WhyNotHugo> Anything I can configure to improve this?
19:57 < WhyNotHugo> I.e.: I set a timer for 40ms and it takes 50ms.
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20:08 < deimosBSD> is this just an openbsd issue or do you find it consistent in freebsd, linux, etc?
20:10 < WhyNotHugo> Cannot reproduce on FreeBSD
20:11 < WhyNotHugo> Linux has no kqueue API
20:11 < WhyNotHugo> a 40ms timer runs in 40ms in FreeBSD
20:11 < deimosBSD> linux has epoll() though
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20:15 < deimosBSD> it doesn't matter for the results, but the struct timespec ts isn't used, I don't think.
20:15 < WhyNotHugo> Linux equivalent with epoll reports that a 40ms timer runs in 39–41ms (like rounding error in my calculation).
20:17 < WhyNotHugo> lol, true
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20:20 < deimosBSD> termbin doesn't support v6, or i'd put my results there, https://agglutino.zw.is/txt/xnbx69o8 instead
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20:21 < deimosBSD> all between 49 and 51 ms timings on obsd 7.8 (confirming your findings)
20:21 < sibiria> maybe kevent is still suffering from a big lock
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20:22 < sibiria> the way you check the time plays in as well. i am betting you would get a different overhead if you'd try gettimeofday()
20:23 < sibiria> struct timeval start, end; gettimeofday( &start|end, NULL );
20:23 < sibiria> members tv_sec and tv_usec 
20:23 < sibiria> the function is in sys/time.h
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20:26 < WhyNotHugo> At some point I added more calls to clock_gettime(), and that didn't increase the discrepancy. I don't believe that clock_gettime() is has the overhead.
20:26 < sibiria> Running 70ms timer: 74 (759783 -> 834010)
20:26 < sibiria> Running 70ms timer: 73 (108 -> 74018)
20:26 < sibiria> etc.
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20:27 < sibiria> from a quick modification of your source
20:28 < sibiria> of course 4 ms for just pulling the RTC or whatever is absurdly long, so that's not the whole picture. just pointing out that fetching the time like this, before and after setting up the event, skews results
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20:40 < WhyNotHugo> With gettimeofday I also get ~9ms overhead.
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20:43 < WhyNotHugo> Using select() intead of kqueue also yields the same results.
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20:49 < morpho> do you need to write a wrapper function that uses absolute times over relative ones
20:49 < morpho> then account for any delays there
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20:54 < WhyNotHugo> I don't quite follow
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21:01 < thrig> also most unix aren't really realtime so timing will fall apart when busy
21:04 < humm> morpho: one of my April 1 ideas is writing a patch for M-x doctor in mg
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21:07 < thenightmail> humm: i appreciate that joke
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21:14 < sandmanXpuff> void linux did a similar apr 1 joke with systemd
21:18 < morpho> humm: do it :)
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21:31 < WhyNotHugo> The timing discrepancy is consistent, even on high end systems while idle.
21:31 < WhyNotHugo> And /search fps
21:31 < sibiria> what i noticed was that the very first event has less overhead
21:31 < WhyNotHugo> * And at 60fps, you get 16ms per frame. 9ms in *measuring the time* kills like 70% of our budget.
21:32 < WhyNotHugo> Yeah, the first one seems to have less overhead consistently.
21:32 < WhyNotHugo> But never 0
21:32 < sibiria> as if there's some internal overhead of consecutive kevent uses per process
21:33 < WhyNotHugo> There's no linear increase tho, it's just the first one that (usually) faster.
21:33 < sibiria> in my test it was ~0. the 4-5 ms i showed was on consecutive tests in the same process
21:34 < sibiria> i really think you should post about this on the relevant mailing list. it's a pretty significant excess
21:35 < WhyNotHugo> Yup, will post to misc@ once I gather a bit more data.
21:35 < WhyNotHugo> So far I know that using select() has the same overhead, as does using gettimeofday.
21:36 < sibiria> on *your* system
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21:36 < sibiria> what hardware timer are you using on that host?
21:36 < sibiria> sysctl kern.timecounter.hardware
21:36 < sibiria> if tsc, try switching to one of the hpet ones
21:37 < sibiria> tsc is wobbly, and used as a default only because it's available everywhere in the x86 world
21:37 < sibiria> kern.timecounter.choice shows what your host can offer
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21:37 < WhyNotHugo> The one in front of me right now uses `pvclock0`, not sure about previous ones where i tried.
21:38 < sibiria> so it's a virtual machine. pvclock might be the most accurate choice in that case
21:40 < WhyNotHugo> The bare-metal host uses tsc
21:41 < sibiria> i think it won't make any difference, but i'd try with hpet anyway
21:41 < WhyNotHugo> kern.timecounter.choice=i8254(0) tsc(2000) acpihpet0(1000) acpitimer0(1000)
21:41 < WhyNotHugo> hpet is not an option
21:41 < sibiria> that'd be the acpihpet0 one
21:41 < sibiria> i just always forget the exact name
21:41 < WhyNotHugo> Same results with acpihpet0
21:42 < WhyNotHugo> And with all the others.
21:43 < WhyNotHugo> My FreeBSD tests wre on the same VM environment tho, so the "hardware" capabilities are definitely there.
21:43 < sibiria> yeah as i expected. there are internal differences but they are far from this scale
21:43 < sibiria> in terms of modern CPUs about a million instructions fly by uduring 10 ms
21:43 < sibiria> during*
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21:46 < WhyNotHugo> A computer timer being late 10ms is like a human being 10 months late for a meeting XD
21:46 < sibiria> something like it
21:47 < thrig> and then you run into a dual proc linux system with a load of 5,000 though it took you a number of minutes to get a login prompt
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21:48 < polarian> vortexx: shouldnt be hard, if I had the endpoint :3
21:49 < polarian> oh syspatch just pulls from the mirrors
21:49 < polarian> okay then I just find an IPv6 mirror ez
21:49 < polarian> thanks deimosBSD 
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21:50 < WhyNotHugo> I still cannot fathom why getting to a login prompt takes so many seconds.
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21:55 < thrig> (the linux system, on account of the high load, was helpfully corrupting payment batch files for a small internet bookseller)
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21:55 < deimosBSD> polarian: https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD is dual stack
21:56 < deimosBSD> as is mirrors.ocf.berkeley.edu (but probably too far away network-wise from you)
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22:00 < sibiria> or why ssh to openbsd host takes 0.3s to prompt for auth, while towards linux host it is not even 0.1s
22:01 < sibiria> mysteries of the pufferfish
22:02 < deimosBSD> security
22:03 < polarian> deimosBSD: I was using oxford's mirror, I moved to kents
22:03 < polarian> kent provides dual stack
22:03 < sibiria> those time-demanding security measures that portable openssh totally disables
22:03 < polarian> lol
22:03 < polarian> security? who needs that!!!
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22:11 < polarian> I think OpenBSD on rpi 3b is unusable 
22:11 < polarian> fuck me its painful
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22:12 < polarian> some reboots you get 70% packet loss
22:12 < polarian> on other reboots mue0 doesnt get detected full stop
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22:37 < izder456> polarian: your rpi3b has mue(4)? I just use the smsc(4) nic built in. Seems to work fine for me, at least for the purpose of an IRC bouncer. https://codeberg.org/izder456/OpenBSD-Soju
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22:39 < polarian> izder456: the mue(4) interface is builtin 
22:39 < izder456> weird, mine has smsc(4)
22:40 < polarian> izder456: prob because mine is 3b+
22:40 < izder456> did different revisions use different ethernets?
22:40 < polarian> seems so...
22:40 < izder456> lemme double check something
22:40 < polarian> I will mail the mailing list at some point
22:40 < polarian> right now im trying to get freebsd to output boot to serial, to the OpenBSD rpi 3b+ so I can decrypt the FDE through the terminal server :D
22:40 < polarian> SECURITY!!!
22:40 < polarian> :p
22:40 < izder456> what's the difference between the 3b and 3b+ anyways
22:41 < polarian> fuck knows
22:41 < polarian> seldom 
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22:41 < izder456> rpi is a real strange organization to be honest
22:41 < tvtoon> fuck posts this on the news, or used to
22:42 < tvtoon> at least between pi 4 revision they did everything
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22:44 < izder456> looks like i have a 3b v1.2, the only quirk i have is that the bwfm firmware that i don't use takes ages to load
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22:51 < izder456> otherwise things work pretty good. 
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--- Log closed Thu May 07 00:00:28 2026