--- Log opened Wed May 27 00:00:30 2026
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00:51 < ojin> man, using debian to bootstrap and install openbsd to a remote server just never gets oldlaptop 
00:56 < kafkaenjoyer> ojin hows the experience?
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02:24 < ojin> kafkaenjoyer: simple and convenient. https://termbin.com/0owd
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02:37 < frostyfalls> hey that's good to know actually in case i have a remote env only. thanks!
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03:36 < rnkn> from misc@ doing dd if=/dev/rsd0c of=/dev/null seems like a genius way to check for file corruption; is it?
03:37 < adhoc> rnkn: do you mean for checking bad blocks ?
03:37 < lts> Isn't that a byte level operation? How would it detect file corruption?
03:38 < rnkn> apparently for disk errors not file corruption sorry
03:38 < rnkn> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=177980813837272&w=2
03:38 < adhoc> you may want to set the block size for the medium, say 512 bytes for a hard disk and 4096 for something solid state ?
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03:41 < rnkn> 512b according to disklabel so I'm running again, thanks
03:41 < lts> Why not use proper tools like sysutils/smartmontools
03:42 < lts> https://openbsd.app/path/sysutils/smartmontools
03:42 < rnkn> I am blindly following misc@ advice
03:42 < adhoc> is that the modern equivalent of badblocks ?
03:45 < rnkn> is any of this applicable to a hosting provider's qemu VM? as in, they're fake HDDs right?
03:45 < adhoc> probably not
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03:48 < rnkn> my provider uses live snapshot backups, and I've found these consistently have file-level (fsck) corruptions on sqlite WAL files; the corruption does not happen if I power the VM down; is this just something that will always happen with live snapshots?
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04:01 < adhoc> rnkn: are the multiple processes opening/writing the same sqlite files ?
04:01 < rnkn> adhoc: reading but not writing
04:02 < adhoc> uh huh
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04:05 < adhoc> rnkn: which file system is the database being stored on?
04:06 < adhoc> rnkn: worth a read; https://sqlite.org/faq.html#q5 
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04:14 < rnkn> adhoc: ffs on /var
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04:57 < dg> taking a snapshot of a mounted disk is problematic on most systems
04:57 < dg> if its a journalled filesystem it can probably deal with it, but ffs can't
04:58 < dg> potentially finishing all writes, then doing sync(8), then snapshotting may avoid the issue
04:59 < dg> but that's just working around the fact you're doing something which is breaking ffs's assumptions
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05:00 < phy1729> You could flip to ro before snapshotting, but that's not an option for all mounts
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05:09 < rnkn> I'm just setting up a regular dump(8) schedule and turning off snapshot backups
05:10 < rnkn> but I'm only dumping /home and /var
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07:08 < vortexx> there's atactl in base if you don't want to install smartmontools
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07:41 < gipa> ojin: i prefer to boot into rescue and dd openbsd image to disk instead
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10:28 < vortexx> wasn't there a presentation or two made in the past along the lines of "You're using OpenBSD and you don't even know it" ?
10:29  * oldlaptop was pretty sure a previous ISP used openbsd for various things - they hosted a mirror at the time
10:32 < rnkn> this is only openbsd-adjacent since it was the file corruption I had, but for a small server running sqlite, do people recommend disabling WAL?
10:34 < rIMpossible> vortexx: Is there a t-shirt or a hoodie available, with that phrase? 
10:35 < oldlaptop> rnkn: That doesn't sound like a solution to whatever the real problem is.
10:36 < rnkn> oldlaptop: the real problem afaict is that the host's snapshots backups are taken while the vm is live, and apparently ffs doesn't like that
10:36 < rnkn> (the corruption was only in the snapshots)
10:37 < rnkn> I thought #openbsd might have opinions because of, like, less moving pieces?
10:38 < oldlaptop> sqlite's "moving pieces" are designed precisely to deal with the consequences of goofy things like VM hosts that take YOLO live snapshots (equivalent to pulling the plug for relevant purposes)
10:39 < oldlaptop> Unless I'm misunderstanding the problem here. Are you talking about the consequences of *restoring* one of these snapshots? Or is something bad happening when one is merely taken?
10:41 < rnkn> sorry I forgot some details
10:42 < rnkn> I did get corruption of the WAL files when the host shutdown the cloud instance without warning
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10:42 < rnkn> I also had corruption of the WAL files when restoring from the yolo snapshots
10:42 < oldlaptop> When you say "corruption of the WAL files", what do you mean, exactly?
10:43 < rnkn> fsck would stop boot and I'd have to run manually, where it would pull up on those files and ask me to remove them
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10:44 < rnkn> but also, I'm using Mojo::SQLite which apparently had data corruption issues when used with WAL, but I'm unsure if they are the WAL files or the database
10:45 < oldlaptop> The main relevant difference between WAL mode and rollback mode is that the WAL and shared-memory files generally persist, and the rollback journal doesn't (it is created and deleted every transaction). Maybe you'll find one is more likely than the other to cause interactive fscks when someone does a stupid, maybe not.
10:47 < oldlaptop> Unless this 'Mojo::SQLite' is doing something spectacularly stupid like poking at the files by itself (i.e. outside sqlite), that doesn't make much sense.
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10:50 < mischief> might want to do actual backups of just the db
10:51 < rnkn> yeah I've got daily db backups
10:51 < rnkn> maybe I should make them more often
10:53 < rnkn> (I'm reading through an old ticket where someone got their db corrupted)
10:53 < rnkn> https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/67000
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10:58 < mischief> can run `PRAGMA integrity_check;` too to check if the db is good
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11:14 < rnkn> yeah currently I have a health webhook I ping every 5 mins to do SELECT 1 and return a database OK HTTP header
11:14 < rnkn> I'm thinking I change that to an intergrity_check
11:14 < mischief> that's significantly more expensive
11:14 < mischief> i was suggesting it to verify your backups
11:14 < rnkn> ah
11:15 < mischief> https://sqlite.org/pragma.html#pragma_integrity_check
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11:41 < rnkn> cool, thanks, I will do the integrity check in the daily cron
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11:54 < vortexx> rIMpossible: not that I know of
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16:38 < xoddf2> (Re: the xmodmap issue I mentioned yesterday, for those who were here)  Writing it in ~/.xsession as:
16:38 < xoddf2> (sleep 1 && xmodmap -e "keycode 129 = Multi_key") &
16:38 < xoddf2> ...works fine for some reason.
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16:44 < xoddf2> This also works: (sleep 1 && xmodmap "$HOME/.xmodmaprc") &
16:46 < ivdsangen> could it be the wm/de sets some defaults at start?
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18:08 < deimosBSD> /quit/quit
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18:59 < thrig> sleep 1 may fail if the system is slow
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19:00 < quinq> What about sleep 2
19:00 < elarks> The sequel
19:02 < xoddf2> quinq: sleep 2: Electric Boogaloo
19:02 < xoddf2> ivdsangen: The window manager in question is cwm, in case it matters.
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19:06 < quinq> ^^
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19:11 < ivdsangen> i was hoping it would give you an idea, i dont run cwm or use xmodmap in xsession startup
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19:23 < thrig> I use cwm but don't do xmodmap
19:24 < thrig> ktrace or process accounting would spam a lot but might show relevant files or execs
19:27 < jmcunx> How compex is your ~/.Xmodmap ?  I only set CapsLock to Crtl and have no issues with cwm.  I just have '/usr/X11R6/bin/xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap' my ~/.xsession
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19:35 < thrig> setxkbmap -option caps:ctrl_modifier
19:38 < jmcunx> did not know that, will check it out,  thanks
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21:01 < ojin> also keyboard.encoding=us.swapctrlcaps in /etc/wsconsctl.conf for console side before X starts, if you need it
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22:38 < xoddf2> jmcunx: This is the only non-comment, non-whitespace line in it: keycode 129 = Multi_key
22:38 < unpx> What is a good book on OpenBSD administration (and *nix in general)?
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22:58 < sandmanXpuff> Absolute OpenBSD is pretty good
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23:14 < unpx> sandmanXpuff: sadly it doesn't talk much about planning... moreover I see people using more and more VMs and containers, but on OpenBSD what would be the plan? vmm every service, pf the network, nfs for storage,... I feel I'm missing something
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23:19 < tommyrot> openbsd is not that os
23:28 < unpx> tommyrot: what is the intended way? For self-hosting must is be pizza boxes?
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23:30 < pardis> the intended way of doing what?
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23:40 < unpx> pardis: planning to use OpenBSD and maintaining it
23:43 < pardis> identifying a use case would be the logical first step
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--- Log closed Thu May 28 00:00:31 2026