--- Log opened Mon Jun 01 00:00:37 2026
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00:06 < atops> openbsd de best
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00:10 < thrig> power bills can also be a problem for older archs
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00:12 < atops> ?
00:12 < atops> rarely
00:13 < atops> If your running unoptimized power machines like pentiums or what not sure
00:14 < atops> most riscv64 & arm64 machines use hardly anyhing
00:14 < pardis> neither of those is "older"
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00:25 < thrig> pentium is pretty recent
00:25  * oldlaptop considers the macppc stuff winter hardware
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02:29 < deimosBSD> I think I have pf working with veb working with raw on the net VMs. sorry for the bouncing recently
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05:28 < deimosBSD> I'm baffled why my vms can't pass traffic out, only in first (ssh works from outside the vm coming in, but not from inside the vm going out)
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05:31 < quinq> Have you natted its network out?
05:31 < quinq> (plus allowed forwarding)
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05:34 < deimosBSD> the VM is tied to veb0 and i have forwarding allowed on the host and i set pf to skip veb0 so the host pf rules aren't interfering with the vm 
05:35 < deimosBSD> the vm are directly on veb0 and appear directly on the local lan, fwiw
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05:37 < deimosBSD> the vm can get dhcpv4 addr fine, ping the local gateway
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05:37 < dlg> there's a physical ethernet interface connected to the lan? that interface is part of the veb?
05:38 < deimosBSD> hmm, maybe it's just letsencrypt timing out
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05:39 < deimosBSD> dlg: yes, em0 is physically on the network, and it is part of /etc/hostname.veb0 "add em0\n add vport0\n up"
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05:39 < dlg> hostname.em0 has "up" in it too?
05:39 < deimosBSD> yes
05:40 < dlg> vport0 is how the host talks?
05:40 < deimosBSD> yes
05:40 < dlg> interesting
05:40 < deimosBSD> inside the vm, i can curl -Lv https://openbsd.org fine now
05:41 < deimosBSD> i just flushed all pf rules and re-enabled it
05:41 < dlg> no link flags on veb?
05:41 < deimosBSD> but I can't get acme-client to get certs, it times out
05:42 < dlg> you should be able to tcpdump on all the relevant interfaces to see packets moving
05:42 < dlg> ie, tcpdump on tap, veb, and em should all see the VM's packets
05:42 < deimosBSD> yes, it does
05:43 < dlg> same with replies
05:43 < dlg> but in the opposite directly
05:43 < dlg> direction
05:43 < dlg> there's also veb-port kstats
05:43 < deimosBSD> hmm, it's something with https://acme-v02.api.letsencrypt.org/directory
05:43 < deimosBSD> the vm host can reach it fine, the vm itself cannot
05:44 < dlg> if dns and routing are the same, then they shoudl have the same connectivity
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05:45 < deimosBSD> yes, no vlans nothing fancy yet
05:45 < deimosBSD> acme-client: 172.65.32.248: connect: Operation timed out
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05:55 < deimosBSD> hmm, v6 works but not v4
05:56 < dlg> crazy
05:59 < deimosBSD> v6 isn't rfc1918 and friends
06:00 < dlg> what's doing nat for v4?
06:01 < deimosBSD> that's what i'm looking at now, upstream opnsense fwiw
06:01 < deimosBSD> on my todo list is to replace it with openbsd
06:02 < deimosBSD> or convince my isp to give me a /25 or something usable by everything in the network
06:03 < dlg> dunno why it would be treating the vm differently to the host if nat is done upstream from the box
06:07 < deimosBSD> because some brainiac decided to require rules on the outside interface of the fw for nat to inside. I should fire that guy. ;)
06:07 < deimosBSD> thanks for the help, pebkac
06:10 < dlg> it's ok
06:10 < dlg> veb is a lot of moving parts
06:11 < dlg> people don't believe me when i say it's simple
06:12 < deimosBSD> the simplicity is what got me initially. i did too much overthinking. thanks for writing it
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06:19 < dlg> npz
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07:18 < avemestr> phk of Freebsd/bikeshed/beerware/varnish/vinyl cache fame gives a hat-tip to OpenBSD for openrsync: https://www.version2.dk/holdning/rsync-igen-igen-igen (in Danish)
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10:36 < lvKas> hello, BSD geeks
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13:09 < vortexx> https://marc.info/?t=178014187700001&r=1&w=2 interesting thread on installing on thin clients with hardly any ram or disk
13:10 < vortexx> a clear case for netboot+nfs I'd have thought, but that's a practice that many have forgotten
13:10 < vortexx> to say nothing of using remote X11
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13:22 < RobbieAB> vortexx: I am having flashbacks to getting Gentoo into a 2GB USB stick many years ago, with a full portage tree...
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13:22 < RobbieAB> The nooks and crannies of how to configure a system that kind of lunacy requires you to learn is very educational. And mostly pointless.
13:25 < vortexx> yeah pretty educational
13:25 < vortexx> 2Gb sounds awful for portage
13:27 < RobbieAB> First problem: inode exhaustion. Second problem: block exhaustion...
13:28 < RobbieAB> Create the FS with a 512 or 1024 block size instead of the default 4k, and it all squeezed in, just about.
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13:34 < thrig> akin to "the plane is too heavy, throw out the seats"
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13:46 < byteskeptical> thrig: yeah but that leaves so much room for activities
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14:03 < il> thrig: the plane is too heavy, throw out the passengers lol
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14:13 < RobbieAB> thrig: I did say it was mostly pointless...
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14:24 < mischief> i recall some mad lad put gentoo on a milk-v duo
14:25 < mischief> which is a single core anemic riscv64 soc with 64 or 256mb ram
14:26 < mischief> idk why the thin client guy didn't just get some cheap 8gb usb sticks, they're like $3/each
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14:44 < vortexx> apparently it's a hacklab and they're on a shoestring budget
14:44 < vortexx> maybe the hw is so old that it doesn't even have usb
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15:20 < ssm_> still waiting on aibro that found one of the bugs in a heck of long time to drop that bombshell in exit()
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15:24 < thrig> maybe they're busy trying to get AI to remove the emoji some other AI added to all the documentation
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16:24 < broke> Hello, sorry to bring this up again, but I want to know some battery saving tips on openbsd that's more than apm and obsdfreqd if possible, and particularly that I find the "CPU power consumption" too high on idle, or is that meant to be like that? As far I've read someone with the same hardware got more battery life with intel_powerclamp in Linux, I was looking for something like that that will lower my 
16:25 < broke> idle CPU power consumption if possible.
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16:26 < ssm_> your wireless driver may support powersave
16:28 < broke> It's an intel card, that uses iwn(4), the manpage says in particular:
16:28 < broke> "In BSS mode the driver supports powersave mode and background scanning..."
16:28 < ssm_> openbsd has a 100hz constant tick kernel and until that changes I think that's the big limiter to reaching penguin battery levels
16:29 < ssm_> `ifconfig iwn' should say if powersave is enabled
16:30 < broke> in this line? "ieee80211: join..."?
16:30 < broke> (if not enabled, how to enable it?)
16:30 < ssm_> ieee80211: blah blah blah powersave on (100ms sleep)
16:30 < broke> alr
16:31 < ssm_> what it looks like for me on iwx(4)
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16:32 < ssm_> other than that, you're running at peak efficiency. you could reduce your resolution though i'm not sure that helps much since it still powers all the pixels, just renders 2x2 instead of 1x1 if you use half res
16:32  * mischief does an experiment with his a485 battery
16:32 < ssm_> would save cpu and gpu usage though
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16:33 < broke> well, I don't think that'd help much and it will make reading the damn texts horrible
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16:33 < broke> other thing I've heard is to lower refresh rate
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16:34 < ssm_> xrandr --output ${output} --scale 0.5 --filter nearest is the only way I found to make integer scaling not look bad. otherwise linear (blurry) scaling is used
16:34 < ssm_> hidpi considered harmful
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16:36 < ssm_> it goes in /etc/X11/xenodm/Xsetup_0
16:36 < ssm_> unless you like xdm being unreadable
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17:11 < JetpackJackson> ssm_: as a hidpi monitor owner, i agree. its nice when it works but it acts so finicky with fractional scaling for some apps that its frustrating
17:12 < oldlaptop> It's a nice idea, arguably limited by the non-nice (perhaps even... harmful) nature/aspects of other moving pieces.
17:13 < oldlaptop> We've had outline fonts, and specified their sizes in terms of physical length ("pt"), for *decades*.
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17:16 < oldlaptop> (I'll concede the unavoidable need for hard raster graphics in some contexts, though some of that can/should be addressed by clean integer scaling.)
17:17 < RobbieAB> For many text purposes, I would expect the fonts to be ok, assuming your rendering is correct, if you are using vector fonts.
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17:18 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD has only correctly sensed/applied the display's dot pitch for font-rendering purposes for... what, a few years now?
17:20 < RobbieAB> No idea, my attempts to get openbsd onto a system where I would use a DE have been failures for the most part. :(
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17:42 < Foxy_> §4
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22:29 < mischief> haha, my a485 only lasted 2.5 hrs on battery, basically idle and screen off.
22:30 < mischief> i suppose it's getting old
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22:44 < thrig> then there's those laptops that drop if you wiggle the power cable a bit
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22:47 < mischief> i think my x200 is like that these days
22:47 < mischief> x301 battery doesn't have much, but still some life in it :-)
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23:10 < xoddf2> My own ThinkPad X200's 9-cell battery was at 7% of its original capacity when the laptop broke.
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23:18 < ewo> Good evening, just wanted to ask - what is OpenBSD's policy on AI? (Curious, not starting a flame war)
23:18 < ewo> Hi - just wanted to ask -- what's OpenBSD's policy on AI?
23:19 < ewo> oo damn I was scrolled down xd
23:19 < ewo> up* sorry
23:20  * ewo runs away and hides in the wardrobe
23:24 < fro> there isn't one
23:24 < fro> also this isn't really the place to ask
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23:29 < ewo> fro: fair aye thank you
23:29 < ewo> I will do some RTFM :)
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 02 00:00:38 2026