--- Log opened Wed Jun 10 00:00:49 2026
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00:55 < echelon> tvtoon: thanks
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01:24 < echelon> > By default, programs that run as set-user-ID (suid), set-group-ID (sgid), or have modified their UID/GID will not generate core dumps to prevent exposing sensitive memory info.
01:24 < echelon> does this include where a daemon_user is set in the rc file?
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02:06 < oldlaptop> echelon: given that it is implemented with su(1), I would imagine not.
02:07 < echelon> thanks
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02:21 < goldfishdev>  Hello! I'm having some issues installing firmware via fw_update on my raspberry pi 4b running 7.9. I get the error "Failed to register: /var/db/pkg/bwfm-firmware-20200316.1.3p5 is not firmware". If I download it then use pkg_add, it installs and works fine. 
02:21 < goldfishdev> Not sure what I'm doing wrong 
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06:19 < JurassCZ> Hi, I would like to ask something about the routing mechanism on OpenBSD, especially in comparison with Linux.
06:19 < JurassCZ> Suppose I have a routing table configured by OpenVPN, for example routing all IP traffic through the VPN tunnel, except for the VPN server’s own IP address.
06:19 < JurassCZ> On Linux, I discovered something that surprised me: the routing table does not seem to be an absolute rule for all applications, even from userspace. For example, an application can bind directly to a specific local interface or address, such as wlan0, and in some cases bypass the routing behavior that I expected from the OpenVPN-created routes.
06:19 < JurassCZ> Is it the same on OpenBSD? Is the IP routing table also more like a recommendation for applications rather than a strict rule? Or does OpenBSD enforce routing differently, so that applications cannot bypass the configured routes just by binding to a specific interface or local address?
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06:43 < IcePic> JurassCZ: on bsds, the routing is mostly about the destination of the packet, especially for udp
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06:44 < IcePic> for tcp, the receiving ip will be used as a source to retain the src-ip<->dst-ip combo, but for udp each packet is separate so when the "response" it to be sent on udp, it chooses the interface whose routes are "best" to reach the other side, which may not be the same interface it came in on
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06:46 < JurassCZ> So basically, one cannot rely on the IP routing table alone and assume it is safe. It is not guaranteed that every packet, whether TCP or UDP, will always be strictly routed according to the routing table.
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08:32 < dg> JurassCZ: that is a strange way to say it, it's expected that more specific routes take priority
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08:34 < dg> JurassCZ: openvpn sometimes does a hack where it adds two routes (0/1 and 128/1), which becomes a default route but with a higher priority, but really you should use rtables if you want to guarantee a particular routing
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09:15 < IcePic> JurassCZ: yeah, I do not share that assessment either. First of all, people have all manner of weird ideas on how "it should be", which affects both VPNs and firewalling, where someone might thing "if packet entered this (wrong) way, it should probably also leave that same way to retain my internal mental image of how things work"
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09:17 < IcePic> this makes stuff like having two ISPs not work as people think it does, because the reply will go the way your rules say and not how you want it to go. Also, having two ISPs and thinking it should be easy to have "subnet A use ISP 1 and subnet B use ISP 2" is very easy to formulate, but since routing is done using destinations and both ISPs presumably server "the whole internet" on the remote end, you 
09:17 < IcePic> can't split it like that anyhow.
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09:19 < IcePic> with rdomains or pf route-to/reply-to trickery you can circuvent the limitations of a single route lookup, but you still need to be careful and learn the original rules in order to make it actually work
09:19 < IcePic> if one starts out with the wrong mental picture of how it works (like basing routing on source network and not dest-ip for instance), then lots of things will not work out as you want it to
09:21 < IcePic> this is a rather common topic on wireguard discussions. Wg was created so that a multihomed laptop can flip between wired and wifi ethernet while still retaining the tunnel functionality. This is nice and intended, but also means "my laptop doesn't care which interface wg packets leave on, as long as this interface is up and (hopefully) allows the udps to reach the remove wg endpoint"
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09:22 < IcePic> now if your idea is like tcp connections, that "if packets from remote-ip come in on wifi, they must leave on wifi" you will get a surprise when doing wireguard, because each udp wg sends is stateless and just goes with whatever if is currently "best" this second
09:23 < IcePic> as long as the routing table says "default route is on eth", then this is where the udps will leave
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09:24 < IcePic> the 0/1 + 128/1 trick that openvpn uses to steer around the default route 0/0 is mostly so that the computer doesn't forget the old default. The two half-internet routes will cover the old default totally, but it will still be there, so when openvpn exits, it can tear down the two half routes and leave you with your previous old working default route 
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09:57 < JurassCZ> Ok, abyway, there is crazy situation with VPN providers. Basically what they often does is that they provide VPN client marketed as ensuring your security, but they do not provide proper firewall killswitch. This is disasterous, because first, when the  VPN goes down, it will leak. And second, in some cases even worse, it will leeak even with the
09:57 < JurassCZ> VPN connected. It's crazy a millions of people around the globe think they are secure, but they have leaking traffic.
09:58 < JurassCZ> Some user apps by default workarounds the ip route table which has been created by VPN.
09:58 < JurassCZ> It's crazy and scary.
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10:01 < vortexx> JurassCZ: are we talking services that use multicast to do discovery on the local network?
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10:09 < JurassCZ> vortexx: No probably not
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10:38 < dg> JurassCZ: see something like https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2021-12-16-openbsd-openvpn-exit.html
10:38 < dg> but yes, it's a shame that these kind of setups aren't more common or default
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12:43 < rIMpossible> If I want to have dynamic DNS updates from DHCP on the internal network: Do I need BIND, Knot DNS or PowerDNS or is NSD capable of handling that? 
12:44 < renaud> you need bind and isc-dhcp
12:45 < rIMpossible> renaud: thank you
12:47 < rIMpossible> renaud: means ISC Kea and ISC BIND (ISC DHCPd is EOL end of '22)
12:47 < rIMpossible> ?
12:48 < renaud> kea probably works
12:50 < renaud> it should work, it's advertised as working, but I never tested
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13:02 < rIMpossible> renaud: I think, I will go KEA/BIND instead of dhcpd/NSD. I read Kea is able of doing ddns updates and report to BIND.
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13:03 < renaud> yes, that's what I told you
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13:19 < IcePic> I am not super fond of dynamic dns updates, better to make it easy to add hostname,mac,desired_ip to some form or input, then make mac -> ip and ip -> name mappings from that
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13:27 < phy1729> JurassCZ: you can guarentee nothing will leak if you create an rdomain with a single if that's the VPN if (works well with wireguard; dunno about other VPN methods)
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13:46 < renaud> what I do is that I reserve every IP and put the name in DNS. The issue with dynamic DNS is that clients can send whatever they please
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14:04 < vortexx> rIMpossible: the base dhcpd + nsd + unbound should be enough for organising your lan. As others have said, use the mac addresses of each device to set up the IP numbering and use the numbering for DNS entries. And if you're afraid of random devices on the network getting an IP and using the gateway, limit in pf.conf the range of IPs allowed egress from your lan
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14:05 < vortexx> it's not perfect of course, but it basically does the job (discounts devices changing mac adresses to steal an allowed IP for ex). ssh-auth into the gateway to enable egress can be of use here
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14:26  * oldlaptop would add that pretty much none of this stuff should need to matter on a home network
14:28 < oldlaptop> "this stuff" being "what if clients send something malicious? what if clients spoof their MACs? etc. etc."
14:29 < oldlaptop> if the "inside" is untrusted and hostile, that is what it is - but that seems like a very strange and unfortunate assumption to have to make on a home network
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14:35 < vortexx> oldlaptop: depends if you have guests with devices
14:36 < vortexx> and you give them the wifi password
14:36 < vortexx> (yes APs can have guest networks too)
14:38 < cgnarne> ikev2 transport with pubkey auth between all servers and clients. problem solved
14:46 < vortexx> or just wg interfaces everywhere
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15:55 < thrig> home networks might also be infested with smart TV or other such cattletracker nodes
15:56 < thrig> which is what a DMZ is good for
16:01 < lts> Why would you put a TV on a DMZ where it is reachable from the Internet?
16:02 < lts> (You probably mean VLANs)
16:02 < vxla> DMZ is a concept, VLAN is a technology
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16:12 < oldlaptop> one might use a VLAN to implement a "DMZ"
16:12 < oldlaptop> or one might not put such nodes on the Internet at all, or might not choose to own any
16:13 < oldlaptop> (the bigger computer monitors make pretty good small dumb TVs these days)
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16:13 < oldlaptop> more complicated if you want a tuner, of course
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16:35 < thrig> people you live with might want an internet-connected TV therefore put it on the DMZ to isolate it from the other nodes
16:37 < thrig> a VLAN may be bad if there's a switch exploit that lets an attacker get to the switch, which more physical separation may help avoid
16:38 < lts> DMZ by definition means that hosts there are accessible from the Internet
16:40 < thrig> maybe, maybe not
16:40 < thrig> you could have an internal DMZ for finance stuff, or to peer with some other company, etc
16:44 < lts> I see what you mean, but that DMZ would need to be between two networks, not an isolated network. I don't think the smart TV at home being in a different VLAN counts
16:44 < lts> Anyway, sorry for nitpicking on terms. It's not important
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16:55 < oldlaptop> one point of view could be that the TV or whatever is hostile, so it can share the fun, fun world of Internet with all the other hostile stuff
16:55 < oldlaptop> (not very public-spirited to let the telnet server it's running without a root password, or whatever, join the botnets, but hey)
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17:16 < vxla> lts: I've worked for plenty of companies that allow egress only from a DMZ for servers. Doesn't necessarily mean ingress to it.
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17:21 < lts> Agreed. I'm wrong there
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17:38 < il> How do you know when to egress without ingress (requests)?
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17:40 < thrig> gemini://thrig.me/blog/2026/06/10/dmz-vlan.gmi
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17:44 < cgnarne> il: outgoing connections don't need ingress first
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17:49 < il> that's true cgnarne 
17:50 < thrig> but there are such things as NAT hole punching
17:56 < oldlaptop> a "server" could serve the internal network, not the Internet - and such a thing might even have security and/or regulatory reasons it shouldn't be able to talk to the Internet.
17:56 < thrig> a credit card repository for example
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18:10 < echelon> can i use pfsync and carp over the same cable/interface?
18:14  * oldlaptop was given to understand the typical setup is that the routers each have a dedicated interface, connected only to the other routers, which they use to carp and pfsync each other
18:16 < echelon> this isn't for a router, so mentioning routers just confuses me :/
18:17 < echelon> it would basically be for a high availability service
18:17 < oldlaptop> given that carp and pfsync are both, principally, for routers, this kind of confuses me
18:17 < echelon> highly available*
18:18 < echelon> but what you're saying would apply in my use case as well, i would have a dedicated port on each system just for carp and pfsync
18:19 < oldlaptop> applications generally are not set up to cope with the kind of address redundancy carp does, where at any random moment (not "for any random HTTP request", at any random moment) the address could be any one of several physical nodes
18:21 < oldlaptop> (which presumably do not share the same memory or the same application process)
18:22 < oldlaptop> pfsync is the special means by which the *network stack* copes with this kind of address redundancy
18:23 < echelon> the application manages a blacklist table in pf, so i figured pfsync would be ideal for that
18:23 < oldlaptop> it will not solve the problem that node 1 and node 2 are running different httpd processes (or whatever) that do not know about each other's existence, let alone each other's TCP connection state, let alone each other's HTTP state
18:23 < echelon> the service is pretty stateless
18:24 < oldlaptop> If these are actually firewalls (which, fair enough, is a different thing from routers, and also a thing carp is for), fine
18:25 < echelon> :)
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18:31 < cgnarne> oldlaptop: i've had heated discussions at work about If firewalls are routers
18:31 < cgnarne> i'm team firewall == router
18:32 < oldlaptop> at the very least that is the common case
18:33 < IcePic> depends on how you build stuff and/or what things you put into the word "router"
18:33 < oldlaptop> The most consistent distinction would be that it doesn't count as a "router" if it only knows about two destinations, i.e. it "routes" from one end of a straight pipe to the other
18:33 < oldlaptop> but that would exclude a very large portion of things people call "routers"
18:33 < IcePic> if the fw has only two interfaces, inside and outside it might not be much of a router, but if it has 3-4-5 interfaces while also filtering, its certainly doing routing as well
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19:31 < thrig> bridging firewall don't do much routing
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22:48 -!- Lotsen_ is now known as Lotsen
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 11 00:00:51 2026