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00:40 < deimosBSD> more likely gothub
00:50 < frostyfalls> unpx: mine is /bin/sh untouched
00:53 < mischief> unpx: _gitea:*:787:787:Gitea Account:/var/gitea:/bin/sh
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01:56 < unpx> mischief, frostyfalls: same, but looks like the thing is in the .ssh directory
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02:36 < mischief> yay, my fix for STAILQ_INSERT_AFTER got merged
02:41 < oldlaptop> Fame and fortune will soon be yours.
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03:06 < mischief> i doubt it, but it was annoying to debug why my program worked on linux and freebsd but not openbsd
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03:19 < mischief> in other perhaps less interesting news, i built a torrent library. it works on openbsd. working on async dns with asr_run(3) api right now. https://git.offblast.org/mischief/mbt
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06:55 < riad> hi folks!
06:56 < riad> i stumbled upon the "Absolute OpenBSD" book in https://www.openbsd.org/books.html and wanted to ask if its still a viable resource for openbsd knowledge?
06:57 < IcePic> riad: I think it is
06:57 < IcePic> openbsd doesn't change very rapidly, so even old advice is valid for a long time
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06:58 < IcePic> as in "you used ifconfig to confire networks 30 years ago. 20 years ago. 10 years ago. last year"
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06:59 < IcePic> even though new things have arrived, new vpn and protocols, all the old ones from a 30 yo book would basically all work the same
06:59 < riad> IcePic: i see
07:00 < riad> my concern is that the 2nd (and latest) edition released 13 years ago - that was in the time of 5.3
07:00 < riad> and i dont know what i dont know, so its hard to trust the knowledge if i dont know what changed
07:00 < IcePic> some things age, any (i)pf guide from before 4.6 will have a different syntax for firewalling, but the principles would mostly be the same
07:01 < riad> is there currently anything better like it or is it still considered the gold standard?
07:02 < IcePic> if you have read Peter Hs "Book of PF" you see how one can handle teaching people PF for both modern obsd and the 4.6-fork fbsd has without getting too confusing.
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07:02 < vortexx> dhclient isn't used anymore (dhcpleased and resolvd replace it) and OpenBSD has grown httpd to replace apache httpd (after using nginx for a few releases) and unbound+nsd have replaced BIND named
07:02 < IcePic> but MWL is a good writer and he has his BSD heart in the right place
07:04 < riad> IcePic: oh so the book of pf doesnt focus on openbsd's pf?
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07:06 < riad> vortexx: thanks! i wish there would be a more complete list of what chapters i can cross out (without cumbersomely reading 20 release notes) 
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07:06 < quinq> riad, the pf book(s) will explain you the principles
07:06 < quinq> For the actual syntax, there is the man-page
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07:07 < quinq> The current syntax might have changed a bit for some few things
07:07 < quinq> But it won't be hard to adapt once you understand what you're doing
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07:09 < IcePic> riad: its for open/free/net PF, so it teaches you the concepts, and in the few places the syntax differs it shows both versions
07:09 < IcePic> mostly nat and rdr-to changed after 4.6 for obsd PF
07:12 < vortexx> riad: there's also relayd to replace nginx's reverse proxy feature, but that one is bit harder to use I find
07:13 < riad> thanks for the quick input guys. putting them in my cart. *gulp*
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07:14 < IcePic> riad: investing in books is probably not the worst choice, the stuff you learn from them will probably help you in the future even if you don't use bsd forever and ever
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07:20 < riad> > even if you don't use bsd forever and ever
07:20 < riad> impossible :-)
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07:24 < IcePic> riad: I know, but if you learn BSD you learn unix, and those skills are not bad to retain
07:26 < IcePic> ipf -> pf before 4.6 -> pf after 4.6 is in most aspects almost identical, whereas ipchains -> iptables -> -> firewalld -> ufw -> nftables would have you learn quite different types of inputing and later outputing the rules and settings you are having in order to fw with your linux box
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08:02 < darwin> One of my OpenBSD 7.9 virtual private servers (VPS) may have seemed to hang upgrading.  It says 'relinking to create unique kernel' for several minutes already...
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08:14 < IcePic> darwin: depending on ram, it might be swapping a bit to do it
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10:31 < vortexx> riad: one extra thing, by default we use FFSv2 now instead of v1. The average user doesn't notice any differences
10:32 < riad> vortexx: oh yeah dw that i know of
10:32 < riad> in 2013 it was still FFSv1? i thought that was something of the middle ages (pre 2000)
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10:39 < pardis> in 2013, v1 was the default for filesystems smaller than 1 TB, and v2 for larger than 1 TB (since v1 doesn't support filesystems that big)
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10:42 < darwin> yeah; that just took a while: thanks
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11:15 < quinq> I heard HAMMER2 is being ported to OpenBSD
11:16 < vortexx> you' may have heard a ghost whispering that from yesteryear then...
11:17 < quinq> Didn't say when :>
11:18 < pardis> when all you have is a HAMMER, everything looks like a nail
11:19 < IcePic> "when all your filesystems are HAMMER, every file access is like a snail"
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11:26 < CosmicDJ> the last DragonFly BSD release was over a year ago... https://www.dragonflybsd.org/release64/
11:34 < quinq> How dare they
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11:41 < renaud> quinq: have a look at what is needed for HAMMER2 on OpenBSD and you will understand it's not going to be imported any time soon
11:41 < tommyrot> without someone from the core devs able and willing to maintain it, chances are zero
11:42 < renaud> that's not the biggest issue
11:42 < tommyrot> i think it is
11:42 < renaud> it requires modifying every FS call in a non trivial way
11:42 < renaud> you can't build it on todays calls
11:43 < renaud> the tries have been with only a subset of HAMMER2
11:43 < tommyrot> who has been trying?
11:43 < tommyrot> someone from outside of openbsd?
11:43 < renaud> there have been 2-3 attempts
11:43 < tommyrot> that's never going in
11:43 < tommyrot> a filesystem won't be imported by a hit and run developer, ever
11:44 < renaud> the issue is not that it's seomone from outside. The main issues is that it requires humonguous changes in fs calls before even trying to make it useful
11:46 < renaud> look at the bigger patches going into OpenBSD, they are split into small part that won't affect the rest
11:47 < pardis> at least it's more likely to be imported than that LLM-written ext4fs
11:47 < renaud> no dev is going to accept a big 20K lines change
11:47 < renaud> LLM-written ext4fs is something else, the issue there was the uncertain license. Do you remember something called ipf?
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11:49 < renaud> HAMMER2 has snapshots and compression, those cannot fit at all with current fs calls
11:50 < renaud> there are "assumptions" that need to go first
11:51 < renaud> the only way I see it could maybe go in is someone forking OpenBSD and adding HAMMER2. Doing enough tests with enough people for enough time that it could be imported.
11:52 < oldlaptop> They probably *do* need to go, one year or another, no?
11:52 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD developers don't seem to be *happy* about the way that the vfs is.
11:52 < renaud> don't forget you will deal with data integrity there
11:52 < renaud> subtle bit flips that can kill your data
11:53 < renaud> as muych as I'd like to see HAMMER2, I am not crossing my fingers
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12:48 < Foxy_> quinq: if you want to try Hammer2 port on OpenBSD => https://github.com/kusumi/openbsd_hammer2
12:49 < Foxy_> not updated since 10 months... 
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13:01 < renaud> I am wondering if people outside kusumi even tried it for real
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13:04 < renaud> looking only at https://github.com/kusumi/openbsd_hammer2/blob/master/patch/openbsd77.patch gives hints that this is a very partial port
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14:03 < vortexx> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20260612080210
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17:07 < Foxy_> renaud: one guy have recently done some tests with Hammer2 FS on OpenBSD => https://x.com/MuriloIjanc/status/2048918733821722685
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17:17 < quinq> Available on Musk's personnal network
17:22 < thrig> javascript app. very dangerous. you go first.
17:25 < oldlaptop> they appear to be back to serving something that renders useful content without js, surprisingly
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17:25 < oldlaptop> (in dillo at that)
17:25 < oldlaptop> if the useful content wasn't a picture of code (or a shell session, anyway) it appears it'd render useful content in lynx
17:25 < oldlaptop> very surprising
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17:33 < oldlaptop> (as to the actual substance: a practical production filesystem is different from "hey look, I can cat one-line text files and it worked once!"
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--- Log closed Sat Jun 13 00:00:54 2026