--- Log opened Mon Jun 29 00:00:16 2026
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01:26 < izder456> how can one see what processes are currently taking up swap? i have more swap used than ram currently and i am really perplexed as to why
01:29 < dlg> it doesnt proactively bring stuff back from swap
01:29 < dlg> it's only on demand
01:29 < dlg> so mem usage was high enough to push some stuff into swap, but nothings needed to pull the swapped memory back
01:30 < izder456> thats how i understood it
01:31 < izder456> i was running a benchmark earlier
01:31 < izder456> maybe thats why the high memory use
01:31 < dlg> i usually remove swap with swapctl and add it back again in this situation
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01:31 < izder456> gotcha thanks
01:31 < izder456> will that break anything?
01:32 < dlg> not in my experience
01:32 < izder456> ok i'll go ahead
01:32 < izder456> thanks
01:35 < izder456> dlg: that seemed to have worked. thanks for the help. very strange behavior
01:38 < dlg> i see it on my boxes that build a backlog of work in ram
01:38 < dlg> they catch up and release the memory, but they've pushed other stuff into swap
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01:40 < izder456> i suppose that makes sense
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12:45 < rcttts> hello, is there way to install openbsd without binary blobs to computers like thinkpad x200, which can work without propietary firmwares?
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12:46 < rcttts> I found a project named libertybsd, but i guess it is deprecated now
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12:57 < pardis> there is no way to do that, probably due to the total lack of value in working on it
13:00 < pardis> or rather, the way to do it is to modify the kernel yourself
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13:21 < IcePic> rcttts: the obsd project does make a distinction between blobs and firmware, so obsd is always without blobs, even if not without firmware
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13:21 < IcePic> though you can always clean out /etc/firmware and go with that if you like
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14:45 < ssm_> https://howdoesmycode.work/tmp/fishlinux.png
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15:13 < humm> ssm_: how come it uses a self-signed certificate, and do you know why my Firefox thinks it uses HSTS?
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15:17 < ssm_> I enabled hsts before leaving LE
15:17 < ssm_> I'll probably switch domains
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15:18 < ssm_> wanted to use ocsp stapling but uhhhhhhhhhhh https://letsencrypt.org/2024/12/05/ending-ocsp
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16:01 < lts> Let's encrypt's competitors AFAIK still offer OCSP, e.g. zerossl
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16:56 < ssm_> kool I'll try zerossl
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17:46 < martian67> ocsp 
17:46 < martian67> is going away everywhere, don’t bother
17:47 < lts> I've heard the same about OpenBSD for quite a while :-) 
17:48 < thrig> netcraft confirms
17:48 < Bradipo> Well, the fact that I've never bothered setting up OCSP for anything makes me wonder why it's still relevant. ;-)
17:49 < Bradipo> Though, I suppose I could say the same thing about having never setup dozens of other technologies.
17:50 < thrig> A6 DNS records, anyone?
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18:03 < Bradipo> Wow, I had forgotten about A6, definitely never set those up here.
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18:04 < Bradipo> Interesting read: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/killa6.html
18:07 < izder456> I submitted desktop-installer and its depend to ports@. Please test on your machines to improve chances of import
18:10 < martian67> lts using openbsd in a useful way isn’t contingent on a large critical mass of others using it
18:10 < martian67> ocsp support is being removed, and already usually off by default 
18:11 < martian67> its worthless
18:13 < ssm_> so what do you do then if you don't trust LE (or any major CA) other than selfsign? I'm fine selfsigning for the record, it's just that most client software does not like this
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18:14 < martian67> check out certificate transparency if you are worried about that particular problem at least
18:15 < martian67> CAs cannot sign random certs without them going into the public CT log
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18:47 < rcttts> pardis: why is there total lack of value for it, can you elaborate?
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18:55 < cgnarne> there's basically no such thing as a computer without proprietary firmware
18:56 < cgnarne> what can be replaced with Open source firmware is most of the time not worth the effort
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19:02 < dominick72_97> why wouldnt you want security patches to the microcode?
19:03 < dominick72_97> thats probably the only thing that would stop it from booting
19:03 < pardis> also, if your hardware does not need the firmware that ships with the OS, it will simply not be used
19:03 < pardis> not installing it makes no difference whatsoever, other than reducing the kernel size by a few KB
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19:23 < RobbieAB> cgnarne: I think Raptor CS would question that...
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19:26 < cgnarne> sure, i'll spend 12k for the privilege of an open bios
19:27 < cgnarne> also don't forget the storage controller in the nvme etc
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20:29 < ssm_> martian67: How does the CT log maintain integrity? as in, what's accountability of the log operator? can a compromised cert be handed out during the MMD?
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20:33 < ssm_> rephrasing, what's the worst that can be done if both the CA and CT log operator are compromised
20:35 < sibiria> MITM having a guarantee to 1) issue rogue cert, 2) without anyone seeing it?
20:35 < sibiria> CAA records wield a bit of security if used right
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20:39 < ssm_> :/ <- face you make when thinking :/
20:39 < ssm_> if that's the case I'm gonna self sign still
20:41 < Bradipo> I'm using "openssl s_client -cipher NULL-SHA:NULL-MD5 -connect openbsd.org:443"
20:41 < Bradipo> But it doesn't return an error; shouldn't it error out given that I gave it ciphers that aren't enabled on that site?
20:42 < Bradipo> In fact, it seems to have negotiated TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 with TLSv1.3.
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20:47 < Bradipo> Perhaps it's because the server has TLSv1.3 support?
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20:57 < sibiria> op2: any chance of profanity 0.18.2 making it into pkgs-stable?
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20:58 < sibiria> i've been running it for a couple of weeks, fixes a few hiccups of 0.15.x. a bit of a hassle to build now that they moved over to 100% meson but doable
20:59 < sibiria> (do the ports scaffolds even support fully mesonized builds?)
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21:03 < ssm_> see port-modules(5)/meson maybe?
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21:06 < sibiria> great
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21:09 < mischief> meson is pretty darn decent when you compare it to autojunk or cmake
21:11 < sibiria> anything is better than autotools. i personally like cmake
21:11 < il> I have barely any experience with make, is there anything similar to make but simpler and platform agnostic
21:12 < pardis> maintaining portable Makefiles is worse than autotools
21:12 < il> pardis: yeah, it's hacky, from what I know
21:12 < pardis> you'd be hard pressed to find something simpler than make
21:13 < pardis> its lack of portability is the main problem
21:13 < il> Well, is meson simpler?
21:13 < pardis> never worked with meson, but it's python so probably not
21:13 < il> ugh, why python
21:17 < mischief> good thing you don't write python to use meson
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21:46 < humm> muon is a reimplementation in C (that is broken on OpenBSD because they try to do library lookup themselves and on OpenBSD you don’t have the .so symlinks)
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21:55 < ssm_> mischief: having written ~30 ports, I rate meson below both autotools. is cmake or autotools worse? that depends on the project I guess
21:55 < ssm_> s/both //
21:55 < ssm_> s/cmake or autotools/cmake or meson/ pls text words text
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22:08 < thrig> I got autotools working for a library before cmake did anything useful
22:09 < tux0r> ugh, gnu.
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23:12 < martian67> ssm_: it can, and if you control 2 (or 3, depending on implementations) legder parties you can freely issue secret evil certs without adding them to the log, however within 24 hours one of two things becomes obvious, either evil cert hits the CT ledger, or cert doesn't, both are very easy to flag
23:13 < martian67> people like the NSA absolutely hate making noise like that, it would be pretty incontrovertable proof fuckery inside the CA went on 
23:13 < martian67> and CT parties to boot
23:13 < martian67> root-of-trust-issues will always remain no matter what you do
23:14 < Bradipo> Not if you have 0 roots. :-)
23:15 < martian67> but this raises the stakes a massive amount. Its no longer Bob from Ahkmed's Used Cars And Ceriticates pressing a button and nobody will ever know
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23:18 < martian67> which is how it used to be before CT
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23:21 < martian67> apparently now google/chrome are switching over to a 1 minute MMD
23:21 < Bradipo> MMD?
23:21 < martian67> maximum merge delay, a conncept in certificate transparency
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23:22 < Bradipo> I see, ok.  CT is definitely one thing I haven't taken the time to care about.
23:23 < martian67> its a pretty reasonable solution
23:23 < Bradipo> In fact, with the rise of CT, everytime I renew my certificate, my server gets probed by all kinds of script kiddies.
23:23 < martian67> to the CAs can issue whatever the hell they want problem
23:24 < martian67> if you have an ipv4 thats already happening, nonstop, for decades
23:24 < Bradipo> Not the same.
23:24 < martian67> it only takes a few days to portscan the entire ipv4 internet with a gigabit connection
23:24 < Bradipo> Yeah, but it's the spike that I notice, not the trickle.
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23:25 < Bradipo> Everytime I renew my Let's Encrypt certificates, there is a huge spike of nothing but crap traffic.
23:25 < Bradipo> And I attribute this to the rise of CT.
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23:26 < martian67> sure, but its meaningless noise
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23:28 < Bradipo> Possibly.
23:29 < Bradipo> We haven't even overcome the MITM problem that exists in STARTTLS with SMTP.
23:30 < martian67> yes we have
23:30 < Bradipo> Really?
23:30 < martian67> don't allow un-tls'd connections to do anything
23:30 < martian67> problem solved
23:30 < Bradipo> That doesn't solve MITM.
23:30 < martian67> yes it does
23:30 < martian67> in what sense doesn't it
23:30 < Bradipo> That solves the everything is plain text.
23:31 < martian67> now they can still intercept people sending to you, but you cant ever control how stupid somebody else wants to be
23:31 < Bradipo> How many SMTP MTA do you know of that will refuse to deliver an email to a server that doesn't have valid TLS?
23:31 < Bradipo> e.g. either fails validation due to expiration, hostname mismatch, etc...
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 30 00:00:04 2026