--- Log opened Thu Jul 09 00:00:30 2026
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00:14 < vortexx> seninha: tried running two instances of unwind, one per routing domain?
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01:19 < seninha> vortexx, i thought on that, but doesnt sound like an elegant solution... 
01:19 < seninha> sibiria, neat
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01:20 < seninha> vortexx, and i do not think that would work, as localhost is not reachable on the other domain anyway
01:21 < seninha> s/domain/routing &/
01:24 < seninha> (i was reading “hostname.lol” and thinking that was a placeholder interface LOL, like foo or bar; then i realized it was the loopback interface one)
01:24  * seninha needs a new monospaced font
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01:35 < aaronm04> are there any practical consequences of the SysV semaphore vulnerability given that pledged processes can't even use them?
01:35 < aaronm04> note: I haven't tested that last part
01:36 < pardis> not every program is pledged, even in base
01:37 < aaronm04> I see
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04:01 < rnkn> deimosBSD: *pedantry
04:02 < deimosBSD> at least someone got the joke
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06:07 < rnkn> lol I didn't even read the following parenthesis
06:07 < rnkn> ded
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06:32 < ivy> there is no nsswitch.conf on openbsd, right?  someone is trying to tell me there is, but i feel like they may be regurgitating AI slop
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06:40 < IcePic> ivy: correct
06:40 < ivy> thanks
06:40 < ivy> that information apparently came from https://www.openbsdhandbook.com/yp/ which i'm assuming should not be trusted for, well, anything at all
06:44 < IcePic> that is the sad part, it looks believeable, but the manpage reference to nsswitch.conf(5) doesn't exist. If it did, it would look like that, but it does not
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06:48 < IcePic> also, there is an ypldap thing, so that your obsd box can ride on an existing ldap service for user data, and I think that would be more appropriate to document (correctly of course) than yp.
06:48 < ivy> yeah, my original question was about ypldap misbehaving, actually.  maybe i should ask that here...
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06:49 < ivy> the problem is: ypldap depends on DNS to contact the LDAP server, and DNS is provided by isc_named (from ports) on ::1... but when ypldap can't contact the DNS server (because named isn't running) all user/group lookups just hang, and named can never start, which means ypldap can never connect... so the system can't boot, it gets stuck waiting for YP
06:50 < IcePic> can't you just stuff the ldap/yp server into /etc/hosts ?
06:52 < ivy> i was going to try that, although i can't until later since my users will complain if i take the system down now to test.  but that seemed like the wrong approach, i'd rather ypldap just didn't return any data at all if it can't contact the LDAP servers
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06:55 < IcePic> yeah, but sticking vital entries into /etc/hosts is the way to go
06:55 < IcePic> that is how one would have done it in the 90s when YP was a thing.
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06:57 < ivy> i was hoping things might have improved since the 90s :D  
06:58 < ivy> but that still means, if both LDAP servers were down for some reason (idk, some catastrophic network/power failure) the system still wouldn't be able to boot even with entries in /etc/hosts.  maybe i just won't use LDAP at all here
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07:06 < IcePic> ivy: sure, but having dns be another movable part that must work is not helpful
07:09 < ivy> someone suggested using netid(5) for this, which seems promising
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14:14 < thrig> some folks end up with LDAP running on loopback on each and every host to avoid the "whoops LDAP and/or network down" problem
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14:38 < sibiria> seninha: i don't know if i'd call it "neat", but given that unwind will only listen on one interface in one rdomain, it's the only way to solve the problem
14:39 < sibiria> it cannot fork out listeners and place them in multiple rdomains
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14:58 < zxawry> guys i had a question regarding unbound(8). let's say i have example.com and i want it to be resolved to 1.2.3.4 locally while all subdomains of *.example.com should be queried from a remote dns resolver. so i have added a local-zone with option typetransparent and local-data with type A record. but i get serverfail errors when i dig any subdomains. though normally without unbound they resolve correctly. here is my example config file: 
14:59 < zxawry> https://termbin.com/895h
15:00 < zxawry> is this the correct way or i miss something here?
15:02 < sibiria> i do it by setting a static local-zone with accompanying local-data
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15:03 < sibiria> local-zone: "peewee." static
15:03 < sibiria> local-data: "peewee. 300 IN A 10.0.0.1"
15:03 < sibiria> etc.
15:03 < zxawry> i did the same i think but still subdomains don't get resolved by the remote dns resolver
15:04 < zxawry> while the domain itself gets resolved according to local-data correctly
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15:07 < zxawry> well the manpage says if you set local-zone static. peewee. gets resolved based on local-data while *.peeww. or any othere nonexistent queries will return NXDOMAIN. but i want non-existent records to be queried to another resolver
15:09 < sibiria> ah yeah that could be, i am honestly not sure if the local zone by itself captures everything
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15:10 < zxawry> typetransparent option seems to be doing exactly what i want according to manpage but i don't know why it doesn't work for subdomains.
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15:12 < sibiria> a quick test with both "transparent" and "typetransparent" does for me what you're looking for. maybe your iterator/forwarder isn't correctly set-up
15:15 < zxawry> thanks, i use opendns as forwarder though, nothing private. maybe i am missing something somewhere but thanks again for testing
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15:28 < echelon> i updated firefox yesterday, i'm getting.. firefox: failed mkdir(/tmp/run/user/1000) while MkdirP(/tmp/run/user/1000/dconf): Permission denied
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15:29 < echelon> uh, ok
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15:31 < echelon> can someone tell me what their permissions are on /tmp/run/user ?
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15:32 < lts> % ls -la /tmp/run/user
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15:32 < lts> drwxr-xr-x  2 root  wheel
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15:33 < echelon> so why does firefox expect to create a directory inside it
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15:35 < echelon> with regular user permissions
15:36 < echelon> i guess not too many firefox users here
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15:36 < airrick> that msg is due to not having messagebus enabled
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15:37 < airrick> #rcctl enable messagebus
15:37 < airrick> then reboot and it will run
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15:38 < airrick> it's fairly new to require this and I am not sure if it's even documented but the last 3 machines I installed openbsd and firefox on I got this error as well without messagebus running
15:43 < echelon> is messagebus configured in rc.conf or is it a pkg_script
15:43 < cgnarne> weird. i don't have messagebus running. no problems with ff
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15:44 < cgnarne> probably created and chowned that dir to shut firefox up and forgot about it
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15:44 < airrick> just type doas rcctl enable messagebus and reboot
15:45 < echelon> why do i need messagebus
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15:45 < airrick> I promise it will resolve. I beat my head trying staff group and max files but in the end its messagebus.
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15:46 < ivdsangen> the dbus pkg readme has additional information
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15:50 < airrick> i would point you to the firefox pkg_readme but even there it doesn't state it's required. However in reality I cannot get it to run without messagebus
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15:54 < lts> This would be an excellent case to have in a bug tracker. One can only wonder how many have spent hours on the same problem and whether it would have already been fixed that way
15:58 < ivdsangen> maybe only a note in the pkg readme that messagebus is required will suffice, i havent verified it is required, i have been running messagebus already
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16:06 < echelon> airrick: restarting fixed it
16:07 < echelon> with messagebus enabled
16:07 < echelon> so messagebus is a pkg_script
16:07 < airrick> @echelon thank you for the validation
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16:27 < echelon> can you add custom root CAs in /etc/ssl/certs/ or is that just a freebsdism
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16:28 < echelon> somebody said appending the cert to /etc/ssl/cert.pem will be persistent across updates, which i don't see how that's possible
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16:35 < lts> I just put the CA cert to /etc/ssl/my_own_ca.pem and then instruct the services (e.g. opensmtpd) to use that as a CA. /etc/ssl/cert.pem works if you need machine-wide trust to the CA, but AFAIK you indeed need to re-add the certs to it after OS upgrades
16:35 < echelon> i need it for pkg_add and fw_update and syspatch
16:36 < lts> Actually, it seems sysmerge will handle the situation even during OS upgrades
16:36 < echelon> how
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16:39 < lts> My source for that is https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/516324 , and nothing in the referred man page anymore. I'm guessing it requires you to manually approve the changes per section, and you can keep the manually added cert that way
16:40 < lts> Or you can just re-add the cert(s) after the upgrade
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16:47 < dty> echelon: this fixes firefox without enabling messagebus: https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/log/src/etc/daily,v?sort=File#rev1.103
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16:51 < echelon> so there's a daily cron that deletes the subdirs?
16:51 < echelon> in /tmp/run/user/
16:52 < dty> yes, daily(8) does
16:59 < thrig> or modify ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs to put all the XDG stuff into ~/tmp/
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17:15 < echelon> why does sysmerge give me chown: /var/cache/fontconfig: No such file or directory
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17:28 < cgnarne> is the directory missing?
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18:07 < echelon> cgnarne: yes
18:07 < cgnarne> then that's why sysmerge is complaining
18:08 < echelon> i mean, why does sysmerge need to touch it at all
18:08 < cgnarne> did you install xorg when setting up the system?
18:08 < echelon> no, i just install bsd.{mp,rd} and base
18:09 < cgnarne> there you fo
18:09 < cgnarne> s/fo/go
18:09 < cgnarne> you have a non standard install now
18:11 < cgnarne> expect things to break
18:11 < echelon> like what
18:11 < cgnarne> like sysmerge
18:12 < cgnarne> or packages that are missing dependencies
18:13 < echelon> any packages you know off the top?
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18:14 < cgnarne> no. my advice is to install all the packages from the base install
18:15 < echelon> i'm supposed to install kde as well if i don't want it?
18:15 < qbit> sets, not packages
18:16 < cgnarne> yes, all the sets from base
18:16 < echelon> base is a set
18:16 < qbit> so is man
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18:16 < fro> yeah so
18:17 < echelon> yeah, i installed man set
18:17 < cgnarne> yes, again install all the other sets
18:17 < fro> just install all the sets or don't complain
18:17 < fro> problem solved
18:17 < fro> next
18:17 < echelon> maybe sysmerge should just check if the dir exists first
18:17 < cgnarne> no
18:17 < fro> maybe send a patch for that
18:17 < fro> if you want it like that
18:17 < cgnarne> that will go well
18:17 < echelon> why give me the option of excluding sets from the installer
18:18 < fro> k
18:18 < fro> this isn't a serious person
18:18 < fro> no sense engaging in this
18:19 < cgnarne> echelon: you've been told how to fix your system. If you do not want to you get to keep the pieces if something breaks
18:20 < qbit> https://codeberg.org/OpenBSD/src/src/branch/master/usr.sbin/sysmerge/sysmerge.sh#L188
18:21 < qbit> tbf there probably should be a guard on that 
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18:23 < cgnarne> theo has hinted that if people keep complaining then the option to select the sets will go away. maybe that's for the best
18:23 < lts> Indeed
18:23 < lts> It's just a footgun
18:27 < echelon> well that's just going to annoy a lot of people that use openbsd for hw appliances, firewalls, etc
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18:32 < fro> "oh no" said no one
18:32 < lts> The usually unselected sets are not very large. Very small even
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18:33 < qbit> comp is pretty big
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18:43 < cgnarne> maybe. but the rule is that if you stray from the installer defaults you better know what you're doing and how to handle what happens because of your changes
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18:55 < qbit> no argument there, but there isn't something in the installer that says "uncheck these at your own risk"
18:56 < oldlaptop> an argument that there should be such a thing is really actually an argument that the option should go away
18:57 < oldlaptop> (and I have to admit that argument looks stronger with every "y my packages no install without xbase?" question)
18:59 < echelon> i don't know why you have to make threats
18:59 < qbit> ya the chastising isn't really needed
19:01 < qbit> it just makes everyone seem like asshats
19:01 < qbit> if you are "tired of answering the same questions" maybe take a break :P
19:01 < qbit> or send some diffs
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19:23 < fro> comp is like 95mb
19:23 < fro> that's big now?
19:26 < fro> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Install
19:26 < fro> there's somewhat of a warning there
19:26 < thrig> modern compilers have gotten chonky
19:27 < fro> also echelon is here regularly and always has some problem
19:27 < sibiria> also you are here regularly and always have some grievance with people asking for help
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19:27 < sibiria> will you not shut up?
19:27 < echelon> problems not stemming from not having the full sets
19:28 < fro> aww
19:28 < fro> you poor babies
19:28 < fro> i don't have a problem with someone asking for help
19:29 < fro> i have a problem when someone needs help _all the time_ and also asks questions they know the answers to already
19:29 < fro> etc etc
19:29 < fro> but sure
19:29 < fro> you go off on your nonsense
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19:29 < sibiria> are you sure? it looks like it to me. exception being when you quip at people, which isn't helpful either
19:29 < fro> i don't care what it looks like to you
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19:31 < lts> Gentlemen, we can be better than this
19:31 < echelon> if anything, we can probably break the base set into smaller sets
19:32 < fro> send a diff
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19:34 < lts> We can be less abrasive to each other than that.
19:34 < fro> i don't see what's abrasive about it
19:34 < fro> how do you people survive in real life?
19:34 < fro> christ
19:36 < lts> I've found it usually helps to be kind and constructive to each other. You get much much farther with that
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19:37 < qbit> ++
19:44 < cgnarne> echelon: you can propose that to theo but i doubt this will go anywhere
19:44 < fro> i prefer candor over kindness i guess
19:44 < fro> i don't see anything kind about coddling everyone
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19:49 < sibiria> so you're always faced with two mutually exclusive choices? help out, or cough up some veiled insult?
19:50 < sibiria> i can absolutely see how that's an internal struggle, and i forgive you
19:50 < fro> if someone actually needs help i'll help if they're just here clearly bullshitting then i'm not going to help
19:50 < fro> also i have no obligation to help
19:50 < sibiria> i know. just the reflexive desire to say SOMETHING
19:50 < fro> and again don't give a shit about you
19:51 < sibiria> yes, you're thoughtless. but it's not about me
19:51 < fro> i'm not the one here insulting people
19:51 < fro> but sure
19:51 < sibiria> if you don't want to help people can't you just sit back and be amused at their desperation?
19:51 < fro> you do your thing bud
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20:03 < morpho> if you met somebody in a pub who was interested in openbsd you would be thrilled to entertain them
20:08 < fro> i don't think i'd like that at all
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20:34 < tux0r> a pub is the second-to-last place where i would be interested in talking about software. you know, beer does not exactly make people more ... social
20:34 < tux0r> (the last place is a swinger's club, fwiw)
20:40 < fro> i'm not fond of talking about computers in real life
20:40 < fro> depends on the context of course
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21:05 < linetrace> I clearly don't fire up my vmm(4) VMs often enough, because it seems I _always_ have to re-read vmctl(1) re:what subnet & IPs are assigned to guests when using local network interfaces
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21:06 < linetrace> so I wrote an ssh(1) wrapper to automate that bit for me: https://github.com/morgant/ssh-vm-openbsd
21:07 < linetrace> of course, that means the subnet and address allocations are probably now burned into my memory, but at least it's less typing & thinking
21:08 < linetrace> I couldn't find a similar utility, but happy to link to any in the project README
21:11 < thrig> or you could put aliases into ~/.ssh/config
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21:14 < linetrace> thrig: good point, though that requires keeping them in sync
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21:15 < linetrace> I have my vm.conf split into separate /etc/vm/*.conf files which are then included in /etc/vm.conf for a little more flexibility
21:16 < linetrace> so I'm often not looking at a full vm.conf and sometimes moving VMs between hosts
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21:18 < seninha> Or use /etc/hosts for addrses aliases.
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21:24 < linetrace> seninha: also a good point, though same issue keeping them in sync (I already run my own DNS servers with full forward/reverse lookup & relay, so don't actually use my /etc/hosts)
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21:24 < linetrace> great points though, I'll update the README to note those alternatives which may be simpler for others
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22:16 < polarian> alright I will ask here instead, can anyone here give a legitimate reason to regenerate ssh host certificates other than if your key was comprimised, or if its a new host
22:18 < polarian> basically I discussed this in #security, but the response I got was arseholeish basically telling me to seek mental health help because im paranoid
22:20 < polarian> this isnt my server, this is a nonprofit I help out. There was some maintanance the hosting provider did 3 days ago, and then 14 mins after they finished, our servers ssh host keys are regenerated.
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22:20 < polarian> Now im not *that* worried about a security breach, I am very obsessive with security patches, and privilege separation, its not an easy target for some script kiddie
22:21 < polarian> however, I just cant seem to understand why any hosting provider (if it is them) would regen a vps's host keys, I have never seen this happen, ever...
22:21 < polarian> and I have worked on servers provided by shady hosting providers in the past, yet this is the first time I have seen this.
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22:21 < fro> what was the maintenance they did?
22:22 < polarian> fro: networking it seems, they reallocated the IP blocks
22:22 < polarian> im not involved with that unfortunately, im involved with security
22:23 < fro> i'd guess you'd want to rotate keys for ip reuse?
22:23 < fro> only thing i can think of
22:23 < polarian> the sysadmins all assumed the ssh host key mismatch was due to different IPs, but I set this stuff up, I know that we use a FQDN for the known_hosts, and sure enough it took me 2 mins to sha256sum the known_host entry, and the new host key to discover it.
22:24 < polarian> fro: but why would they tamper with our servers, its none of their business...
22:24 < polarian> the host key identifies the host, if the host is a vps, and the vps is moved between hosts, the vps host itself is still the same
22:24 < fro> no idea
22:24 < polarian> exactly
22:24 < polarian> so you see why im clueless on why this would even occur
22:25 < polarian> the team submitted a ticket to the hosting provider, awaiting their response to see if they confirm it was them.
22:25 < polarian> and if it is I am going to push to move host, their job is to provide the vps, not tamper with the services running within it 
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22:26 < fro> i'm just guessing you'd want to rotate keys once the reallocating ip blocks is done
22:26 < fro> but i guess your question is more why would they do it?
22:26 < polarian> yes.
22:26 < fro> welp that's the part i'm stuck on
22:27 < polarian> exactly
22:27 < polarian> any if I ask elsewhere, I get accused of being paranoid and having mental health issues lol
22:27 < polarian> its funny how people just dismiss weird things...
22:28 < fro> i dismiss plenty of things in here but i dunno about this one
22:28 < fro> i mean maybe there's something we're missing
22:28 < polarian> assume the worst case, malicious intent and its a mitm 
22:28 < polarian> what benefit would it get?
22:29 < polarian> it wouldnt make sense for the hosting provider, and assuming it was a third party, they would have to have exploited an RCE and LPE on a fully patched server... so...
22:29 < polarian> You can never rule it out, but its not likely, too many insecure servers out there to pwn :p
22:30 < sibiria> if any of my servers regenerated keys "by themselves", i would be worried. there's probably a cloud-init hiccup that can make it happen (it's always fkn cloud-init), but in my book it's absolutely cause for alarm
22:30 < fro> yeah all that seems unlikely
22:30 < fro> some benign shit for sure
22:30 < fro> but it's weird
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22:31 < polarian> sibiria: yeah but cloud-init is injected by the hosting provider
22:32 < polarian> so again, it all points to hosting provider
22:32 < polarian> but it just doesn't make fucking sense
22:32 < sibiria> the host provider shouldn't re-arm that part of cloud-init. slinging keys from your control panel key store in there, sure, but not that
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22:33 < sibiria> i'd regen the host keys
22:34 < polarian> sibiria: I dont want to touch it right now until the hosting provider replies
22:34 < polarian> but I also dont want to ssh into the server until the answer is found
22:35 < polarian> but yeah if the hosting provider has tampered, im not going to be happy
22:36 < sibiria> if it's a harmless issue and they merely screwed up cloud-init, there's no knowing what they screw up next
22:37 < polarian> well yeah thats the thing
22:37 < polarian> and the reason why I am shocked that someone in #security would be so insulting and shrug off weird behaviour like its nothing
22:37 < polarian> theres a few entities which need to be trusted 
22:37 < polarian> the hosting provider, the sysadmin team, and the security team (just me :P)
22:37 -!- fflam [~mdt@2600:4040:10f1:1800::1c19] has quit [Ping timeout: 262 seconds]
22:38 < polarian> and if the hosting provider is fucking up or up to weird things, I would need to question whether they can be trusted with security their end
22:39 < polarian> I had a friend who although his vps was kept up to date, and was well maintained, his hosting provider was running out of date hypervisors and hosts, and yeah, got pwned by that
22:39 < sibiria> what provider is it?
22:39 < polarian> I think its 24fire... 
22:39 < sibiria> sounds lit
22:40 < polarian> I am only really there because one of my friends is on the project, and asked me to help out due to the lack of proper security lol
22:40 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@171.221.44.137] has quit [Quit: tozhu]
22:43 < polarian> anyways thanks for your two cents sibiria and fro :)
22:43 < polarian> and for not speaking to me like I am a loon :p
22:43 < polarian> appreciated :
22:43 < polarian> :p
22:43 < sibiria> and brushing something like that off (re: #security) as not warranting looking into, strikes me as ignorant
22:44 < polarian> meh
22:44 < polarian> I rarely had a good reply in #security
22:44 < polarian> I dont know why I bother asking in there
22:44 < polarian> It feels like ye typical corpa security engineer
22:44 < polarian> "oh its fine just slap 3 more layers of security on the problem, and call it a day"
22:46 < sibiria> #linux used to be infamous for the same
22:47 < sibiria> a bunch of sarcastic elitists who'd gladly spend 45 seconds telling someone why they're a complete idiot, instead of 10 seconds telling them how to solve the problem
22:48 < polarian> oh yeah I have seen that a lot in #linux 
22:48 < polarian> its one of the reasons I love BSD circles
22:49 < polarian> even total idiots still get treated kindly (usually, theres exceptions ofc)
22:49 < polarian> also i feel the BSD's are less so "this is the correct opinion" and more so "we recommend this, if you dont listen and fuck up, thats on you"
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23:31 < ssm_> any update on that exit() bug yet?
23:32 < ssm_> <alleged> exit bug found by an algorithm
23:34 < fro> has it been reported yet?
23:34 < thrig> many bugs have been reported about memory leaks just before exit
23:35 < fro> last time you brought this up the person specifically said on twitter that they haven't reported it
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23:40 < fro> there's also an alleged unpatched LPE in 7.9
23:40 < fro> and the ROP mitigations don't work
23:40 < fro> etc etc
23:40 -!- chilledfrogs [~chilledfr@static-176-185-214-4.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #openbsd
23:40 < fro> but this channel isn't going to fix any of that
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23:58 < seninha> https://seninha.org/files/arrogant-linux-elitist.png
23:59 < seninha> (sorry, off topic; but could not loose the opportunity for the meme)
--- Log closed Fri Jul 10 00:00:31 2026