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07:59 < dominick72_97> polarian: i think you could come up with reasons similar to why people renew tls certs but a host should never touch your server
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11:00 < polarian> Hm, the host denied touching anything.
11:00 < polarian> I can't find any evidence of a breach..
11:00 < polarian> breaching a server to modify someones host key, and nothing else would be dumb, too much effort to pwn a service, break out of containment and then use an LPE to gain root privileges, all to just modify the host key?
11:00 < polarian> nah
11:01 < polarian> This must be a misconfigured cloud-init, I can't see any other logical cause of it
11:01 < polarian> in any case, sshd reinstall and new host keys generated by me instead
11:08 < polarian> seninha: if only Linux users were right half the time they are arrogant about something :p
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11:22 < rnkn> does anything on openbsd use /var/lib or is that just a linux things?
11:27 < sibiria> polarian: does your host prep your OS image, and does it run qemu-guest-agent?
11:27 < bylzz> rnkn: the equivalent in openbsd is /var/db maybe, check man 7 hier
11:28 < rnkn> bylzz: thanks!
11:28 < sibiria> polarian: if it's a breach (likely not) then something like qemu-ga integration gives partial/full control of the guest's file system
11:28 < sibiria> from the host side
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11:45 < polarian> sibiria: yes your assumptions are correct
11:45 < polarian> and yes it is a possibility the host has been pwned 
11:46 < polarian> especially how its a small host which uses Discord for support, those are notorious for security vulns
11:46 < polarian> but again not my problem :D
11:47 < polarian> then again*
11:48 < polarian> actualy I dont believe we have the guest agent 
11:48 < polarian> nevermind we do I cant spell like usual :p
11:52 < polarian> If the host is compromised, that would actually be a good reason for the ssh host key changes. You would want to gain access to all the virtual servers, and sure you could just dumb the filesystems, but that doesn't get the credentials or anything which would all be hashed, so what do you do? replace the host keys with mitm'd keys and harvest the credentials over a period of a few weeks.
11:52 < polarian> s/dumb/dump/
11:53 < polarian> It makes *sense* if this happened, but still far fetched, someone else must have reported such an issue to the host.
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12:07 < oldlaptop> just replacing host keys seems like an awfully noisy thing to do as part of a compromise
12:09 < oldlaptop> Maybe enough people ignore ssh(1) LITERALLY SCREAMING IN ALL CAPS THAT SOMEONE COULD BE DOING SOMETHING NASTY that it's worthwhile to do to $N systems for a sufficiently large $N?
12:10 < oldlaptop> or after the enemy has everything else of value that it wants?
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12:11 < oldlaptop> I get that people click through security warnings without reading them as a matter of course, but ssh forces you to be a little more intentional about ignoring a compromised host key
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12:15 < oldlaptop> might question how useful it is in the ssh context even if it "works" - how many of the victims will be using pubkeys anyway?
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12:58 < sibiria> polarian: i think it's nothing but a config mistake on the host's end
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12:58 < sibiria> they should be able to admit that, or atleast capable of detecting the mistake. but since they just smooth it over by saying "nothing happened"...
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12:59 < sibiria> maybe take the business elsewhere
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13:01 < cgnarne> oldlaptop: in my experience people want to get shit done and they are very good at ignoring/circumventing security to achieve that
13:02 < cgnarne> ignoring changing host keys is nothing
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13:02 < seninha> rnkn, on base that directory does not even exist. But only these 3 ports install stuff there (as per pkg_locate(1)): i2pd, icinga2, kea
13:02 < oldlaptop> cgnarne: Seems like a bit of a risk, at least?
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13:03 < cgnarne> the only risk the average user cares about is that they don't get shit done
13:04 < oldlaptop> More chance the manure-accomplisher will stop to think when literally forced to stop and open up known_hosts, or possibly even look up how to bypass the SCREAMING SCARY WARNING
13:04 < cgnarne> the things i've seen, man
13:04 < oldlaptop> :(
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15:26 < polarian> oldlaptop: the entire team ignored it, I was the only one who caught on about it
15:27 < polarian> but if its an injected host key, regenerating it and reinstalling the sshd at least should eliminate the concern of a sshd compromise 
15:27 < polarian> ive given them the known_host line to paste into their known_hosts
15:28 < polarian> sibiria: that is the concern if they 1. cant be honest with their own mistakes, then you cant really trust them to provide you a good service or keep you secure, or 2. they dont realise it was their own mistake, and then you wont trust them even more because if they cant keep their own systems working, then how will they keep you secure
15:29 < polarian> in any case, its not my server, I have no say over what host is used. I can only provide a recommendation on security concerns that a different hosting provider is used.
15:29 < oldlaptop> :(
15:29 < polarian> but the host sponsors the project, giving something like 75% off the market rate of the resources they are providing 
15:29 < polarian> so try convincing people who arent security minded that they should pay more for less, because we cant trust the hosting provider?
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16:33 < cgnarne> oldlaptop: see? i rest my case
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18:37 < izder456> could someone test that msibuild port i submitted a bit ago to ports@? i'm waiting on a second OK before import
18:38 < izder456> sorry, devel/msitools
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19:01 < vortexx> polarian: does the vps log to an offsite loghost? If so, does /var/log/authlog show anything unusual during maintenance?
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21:51 < dominick72_97> Hey, I have a couple of questions about pf. Does a higher set-prio get prioritized first in a queue with flows? I'd like to prevent my ssh getting dropped if it gets overloaded without arbitrary bandwidth caps. Would this be a good way to prevent overloads: `source limiter 0 id 1 entries 100000 limit 10000 rate 1000/60 inet mask 32 inet6 mask 64 table throttled above 6000 below 4000`? And 
21:51 < dominick72_97> is there a real reason to limit which types of icmp/icmp6 get passed in?
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21:52 < Bradipo> dominick72_97: What do you mean by "getting dropped"?
21:53 < Bradipo> Do you mean the packets?  Or do you mean the session?
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22:07 < dominick72_97> Bradipo: The packets but I assume if it gets bad enough I wouldn't even be able to ssh in without some form of prioritization.
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22:16 < thrig> ssh may fail or take ages if the box is overloaded for other reasons
22:19 < dominick72_97> That's true but my main worry is running out of bandwidth due to a DoS or whatever
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22:22 < mischief> queuing only really make sense outbound
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22:31 < dominick72_97> mischief: is that true for flow queues as well?
22:34 < mischief> once the frame arrived on your doorstep the ingress bandwidth was already used
22:37 < mischief> you can of course try to queue return traffic, but that's probably not the right approach to handle a true denial of service.
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23:00 < dominick72_97> Would `set limit states 1000000` `set syncookie adaptive` and `source limiter 0 id 1 entries 100000 limit 10000 rate 1000/60` be enough?
23:03 < thrig> one would typically try various things then DoS a host to see what works
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23:33 < ssm_> I don't think DOS has pf...
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--- Log closed Sat Jul 11 00:00:32 2026